Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:10 am



Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 49):
In the end, it's really not a big deal. No doubt in a few days all will be forgotten, and the airliner geeks will come back out of their shells!!

And as I said in the beginning of this transition, in a matter of time (which seems to be growing shorter by the day), you will be milked for your First Class membership. When that cow runs dry, this will be the ultimate portal to your vacation getaway to look up prices for your next flight to wherever you want to go. As cocky as VC-10 has been in this thread, his time is probably limited as well.

The buyout of this site wasn't for the business sense of entertaining airplane geeks. How could it be? Although this may be the premiere site for that kind of stuff, there are actually better resources out there, and now that we know that DM apparently doesn't care about the community aspect of it, the only logical explanation is that they bought this site for the name. A name when properly marketed to the traveling segment is worth its weight in Krona.

Expedia
Travelocity
Kayak
Priceline
Airliners

Let's just see how this prediction pans out. If I were a betting man in Vegas, I know where my money would be.

That said, the loss of ANC is more than tragic.

Godspeed, brother Tankgunhatmanpolarbearcop!  Big grin
We can agree to disagree.
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:15 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:11 am



Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
not user friendly with the members.

So when can we fire Demand Media, for the same charge??

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 19):
A.net is no longer a small hobby site, it is now part of a brand and the brand has a standard to maintain. DM has plans that a bad rep could bring down.

I think you make a good point VC-10. Demand Media is turning the site into a larger, more independent business. And so... doesn't this development beg the question of whether people like you - who have been around since the early days - ought to remain as staff?

It's a serious consideration. If the goal is to make this place more professional, more business minded... lets be frank... you really don't have a place in that kind of world, and you're involvement in this thread is a perfect example.

A professional business has PR representatives who are trained in communication skills and information dissemination. That is not you, nor is it your duty to assume that role. Your job is to moderate the forums and junior moderators, not to come charging in here, defending DM's decision.

As you stated - this was their decision, not yours. It is not your job to defend that decision for them. And it certainly unprofessional to be publicly critical of Pep - who only recently was a subordinate coworker! Think of it this way: As commander of a unit, if I relieve someone of their duties... I do not expect my executive officer to go around to the lower enlisted men, discussing that decision, and I certainly do not expect him to bad mouthing the person I just relieved! I would expect my XO to sit there, shut his mouth, and not get involved in something not of his concern!

So basically, what we have here, is either Demand Media failing to properly control a PR issue (which would be counter to your claim that Anet is this "growing professional company"). Or we have a head moderator acting unprofessionally, and getting involved in something beyond his sphere of authority. Either way, it speaks to all of our concerns that things are being managed very poorly at the top.

Anyway, sorry to see you go, Pep.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
User avatar
JBo
Posts: 1806
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:23 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:12 am

It's truly unfortunate that ANCFlyer has been dismissed from his position as a moderator. In all the years I've been reading and later participating on these forums, I've found Pep's moderating to be among the most fair and balanced out of the A.net Crew. He may be straight and to-the-point, and perhaps sometimes blunt, but that's his style ... and with the culture of the forum membership, I think there are times when we need more of Pep's style to keep things running.

Not only is Pep a straight shooter who doesn't tolerate much in the line of BS, but he's also not afraid to take the heat if anyone criticizes his decisions. Regardless of his style, he's always upfront with you. That earns respect.

All the best Pep ... A.net will be slightly more chaotic without you patrolling the forums.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
6yjjk
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:40 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:23 am



Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 31):
I would say slightly more than a handful:

And you can add 6YJJK to that list. The only reason I've not added ANCFlyer to my RU list is that I thought I'd save the slot for someone who needed it.

I've loved dealing with ANCFlyer - his style never leaves any room for doubt, you know exactly where you stand.

And he tells it like it is, not how some would like it to be. I recall a recent thread where he said some members need to "toughen up!" - at the time I called that unconstructive, but it's actually bang-on. DM would do far better to listen to him than to sit on him.

Utterly astounding, and quite possibly the last straw. Now looking for a reason not to self-delete.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:30 am



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 19):
A.net is no longer a small hobby site

No, it is a large hobby site, and will always remain so.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 19):
brand has a standard to maintain

And DM has done the poorest job in maintaining certain standards. As discussed with IT professionals, and being in the field myself, all of us would have been fired if we performed as DM has since the takeover.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 19):
DM has plans that a bad rep could bring down.

In the meantime, their poor performance otherwise has done far more damage than any rep has done so far. This type of decision has done far more damage than Pep ever did.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 53):
A professional business

DM has not proven to be a professional business yet.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:49 am



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 53):

As you stated - this was their decision, not yours. It is not your job to defend that decision for them. And it certainly unprofessional to be publicly critical of Pep - who only recently was a subordinate coworker! Think of it this way: As commander of a unit, if I relieve someone of their duties... I do not expect my executive officer to go around to the lower enlisted men, discussing that decision, and I certainly do not expect him to bad mouthing the person I just relieved! I would expect my XO to sit there, shut his mouth, and not get involved in something not of his concern!

IFEMaster in reply 19 requested a mod to comment. I complied with that request. If I hadn't, this thread would now contain posts accusing the mods of ignoring you all. Damned if you do, damned if you don't - but who cares it's all part of being a mod.

ANC brought the reason for his demise into the public domain (See thread starter), not me. Once he had done that I attempted to explain DM's thinking behind the decision based on what we had been told. Had he not gone into detail neither would I.
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:15 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:10 am



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 57):

ANC brought the reason for his demise into the public domain (See thread starter), not me.

I understand that, but I don't think the head moderator ought to be getting involved in these types of discussions. Just like I don't think the head moderator ought to be calling other members "stupid" on the website-that-cannot-be-named.

It all goes to professionalism and legitimacy. Something you introduced, by claiming that Demand Media has plans and wants to make this into a legitimate website, not a hobby site. How can this happen when their senior moderator is getting involved in silly spats?

Like it or not, the red stamp at the top right corner of every one of your posts - the one that says "Forum Moderator" - means you represent Demand Media 100% of the time, and when you snap at members, get involved in decisions you weren't apart of, and go on other sites and act unprofessionally... well you said it yourself:

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 19):
DM has plans that a bad rep could bring down.

--------------------------------

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 57):
Once he had done that I attempted to explain DM's thinking behind the decision based on what we had been told.

Exactly my point! You said it yourself: You had nothing to do with this decision, and that you were not consulted. So how can you possibly speak accurately on the thinking behind this decision? How can you represent Demand Media's thought process... if you weren't even a part of it?

That's why I raised the issue of whether people unskilled in corporate dealings, ought to remain on the staff. If - as you claim - Demand Media has plans for this website, then I'm truly sorry.... but I don't know if you should be a part them. Because this was something a person trained in PR issues should have dealt with, not a moderator! In a true business, the head of the shipping department does not issue a press release explaining a decision made by the personnel office!

It's all about knowing your job and your place. You weren't a part of the decision to let Pep go, and so you shouldn't be trying to act in official manner, and explain Demand Media's reasons.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:58 am



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 58):
Just like I don't think the head moderator ought to be calling other members "stupid" on the website-that-cannot-be-named.



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 58):
Like it or not, the red stamp at the top right corner of every one of your posts - the one that says "Forum Moderator" - means you represent Demand Media 100% of the time, and when you snap at members, get involved in decisions you weren't apart of, and go on other sites and act unprofessionally

I do not deny I represent DM when I post. Tell me what other site I allegedly post on, in full view of every member of a.net I give you a dispensation to name that site and link to the post where I apparently called a.net net members stupid.

YOU WILL NOT HAVE ANY SANCTION TAKEN AGAINST YOU
 
jafa39
Posts: 4320
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:14 pm

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:17 am



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 19):
. DM has plans that a bad rep could bring down.

So they sack Pep?...the only mod on here that I would vote to keep?......they say he was too blunt!!!! Dude, you should see the way some of the mods (including you) have spoken to me in the past and contrast that with the open, honest and constructive way that ANCFlyer has dealt with me!!!!!

I am utterly shocked and if there is a petition to keep the hat in power.....add my freakin' name a dozen times!!!!
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14183
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:18 am

Personally not a nice experience for ANC. Being dismissed gives a different feeling then e.g. recommending a ban or threatening with it.

Lets look at the positive side : ANCFlyer is probably sick of a.net for a while but then has a lot of extra time to explore new opportunities.

I hope not to many mods get dismissed. They are volunteers putting in a lot of privat time, not professionals..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:35 am

How about something from DM?

It is time to look for another site or create one. This(airliners.net) is headed south fast.

What a load of crap. You have some good moderators and not so good moderators. You canned one of the good ones. Doesn't say much for management.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:37 am



Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
As I'm told from DM, I'm too blunt, direct and essentially, not user friendly with the members.

From what I have read and heard, so are other mods, does that mean they are leaving too?
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:42 am

I am glade that ANC is no longer a mod. I like ANC's posts and often thought that his mod status may have put constraints on what he posted. ANC is now free to post as he pleases and am looking froward to see his future posts.

I do have to note that all communication I have had with ANC in his capacity as a mod has been professional and above board.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1490
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:45 am

Sorry to read about ANCFlyer's dismissal. Shame to see one of the most popular and respected people on this site be stripped of his roles.

I have to disagree with DM's statement that he was too blunt, because every site needs someone who gets to the point and is not afraid to speak their minds. At this rate there will be a list telling us not to speak our minds, which to a degree defeats the object of an open forum.

VC-10 I've been reading your posts on this matter with all due respect, and although I accept that you're onyl defending yourself and DM's decision I think that this quote...

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 19):
I have to say though I can see where DM is coming from and on more than one occasion I did counsel the mods that Pep's style would not go down well long term.

...does not help ANCFlyer's situation as you have come out and admitted to being a snitch, and this does not help your situation as it gives some readers the impression that you was behind ANCFlyer's dismissal. You really could've kept that one to yourself.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 60):
I am utterly shocked and if there is a petition to keep the hat in power.....add my freakin' name a dozen times!!!!

Yeah I think a petition should be started and I would definitely sign it.

[Edited 2008-02-06 03:47:09]
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:50 am

We are the people who keep Airliners.net alive and Kicking.DM will loose a lot of money without us.I suggest to put this matter to a vote.I don't care if 10 or 10000 people voted.Majority of actual votes carries the day.
VC10 sorry to say that all your explanations are not acceptable.Remember you are dealing with intelligent people here.So please....
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:16 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 5):
I call a toast to Pep.

Best post you ever made there MCO - I'll drink to that!!

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
Wow. The nicest guy on the site gets shitcanned for doing a fair, honest job. That says a lot about DM.

Unbelievable.....

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 14):
Yet another poor decision by DM. It's just beyond belief.

See above.

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 16):
Pep's bluntness and outspokenness was welcomed. At least you always knew where you stood with Pep. It does not make sense to me that someone as respected as Pep would not be considered a suitable moderator.

Agreed - the man with the pink hat has deleted my posts before - and ALWAYS had a personal comment in the deletion notice. Sometimes it was a few sentences, sometimes it was simply, "you knew better than to post this" and he was always right. I never had a beef with him as a moderator.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 19):
A.net is no longer a small hobby site, it is now part of a brand and the brand has a standard to maintain. DM has plans that a bad rep could bring down.

Good for them. But to shitcan Pep is increasing their bad rep tenfold!!

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
ANCFlyer is part of what is right about this site, not what is wrong about it.

You dang skippy. It was great to see him get the mod tag a couple years ago. The site improved a great deal after that happened.

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 62):
You canned one of the good ones.

One of the best ones.

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 62):
Doesn't say much for management.

 checkmark 

Since the other crew wasn't consulted, or advised, I gotta believe the decision was made in a vacumn, by some
DM honcho that didn't agree with Pep on issues, nor liked being challenged from a "subordinate" crewmember.

Edit: Fixed smiley

Edit #2: Fixed smiley correctly this time.
[Edited 2008-02-06 04:17:28]

[Edited 2008-02-06 04:18:18]
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:32 pm



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 57):
Damned if you do, damned if you don't - but who cares it's all part of being a mod.

BULL

If you are such the professional, why was the following necessary?

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 38):
I apologise for my comment if it offended.

This space intentionally left blank
 
paulc
Posts: 1440
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2001 10:42 pm

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:38 pm

message to DM - first thing you do when you are in a hole is to stop digging! (you need support and without it a collapse is certain)

Dug a big hole with the migration and all the resulting issues and are continuing to dig by removing one of the best forum mods.
English First, British Second, european Never!
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:50 pm



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 62):
It is time to look for another sit

Well, there are at least 2 other sites, but mentioning either of those will get your reply deleted, and if do it too often, earn you a ban as well  Yeah sure .

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 19):
DM has plans that a bad rep could bring down.

And a moderator asking user user whether their hurts is somehow better? Let alone all the already mentioned downtimes, software glitches, etc.
 
Farcry
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:39 pm

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:09 pm

I echo all the sentiments in the posts above regarding the loss of ANC from this site. He did a dam fine job here and this is his reward? Since you (DM) took over this site we have had nothing but problems. Now to compound these problems you see fit to dump the straightest mod on this site. Outstanding effort on your part  Yeah sure

Also, just to show how much you care about 'the community', you delete posts by members that have vented their frustration at this decision. Still, once again we are the minority (according to some people) and actually count for nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 50):
Sucks to see you go Pep. At least, now, you can voice any opinion you want.

Good call Kai.

Farcry
Exactly how long is a drastic measure?
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:15 pm



Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 66):
Quoting VC-10 (Reply 19):
I have to say though I can see where DM is coming from and on more than one occasion I did counsel the mods that Pep's style would not go down well long term.

...does not help ANCFlyer's situation as you have come out and admitted to being a snitch, and this does not help your situation as it gives some readers the impression that you was behind ANCFlyer's dismissal. You really could've kept that one to yourself.

Why? I have nothing to hide. I don't have a situation, the e-mails I sent (on several occasions over the last few years) were sent to the mod mailing list, all the mods were aware of my views. The process was totally transparent.
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:23 pm

Below is the top seventy posters listed by their RR - a VERY LARGE portion of them have posted in this thread disagreeing with DM's decision. (cut-n-paste didn't carry the format very well - but you get the message)


ANCFlyer 100 21777 236 2004-11-15 United States 7h 58min
B747-437B 99 7071 206 2002-05-29 India 34days 22h
DL021 92 10437 102 2004-05-21 United States 6h 17min
KROC 89 19636 137 2000-05-08 United States 12h 25min
FXramper 86 3421 78 2005-12-04 United States 3h 30min
Falcon84 81 12430 132 2004-09-10 United States 7min 17sec
JGPH1A 81 15210 120 2003-08-14 South Africa 6days 14h
Sabena332 80 13737 125 2001-05-08 Germany 34days 22h
UH60FtRucker 77 2293 127 2005-03-29 United States 4h 6min
ConcordeBoy 73 17244 155 2001-02-01 United States 29days 7h Signup!
myt332 73 7114 83 2003-09-08 United Kingdom (England) 1day 14h
Superfly 71 24745 144 2000-05-11 United States 5h 14min Signup!
N1120A 70 20009 110 2003-12-14 France 7h 51min Signup!
gigneil 70 12734 137 2002-11-08 United States 1day 10h Signup!
leskova 70 5629 96 2003-10-08 Germany 5h 12min
mariner 68 8759 176 2001-11-22 New Zealand 7h 27min
L-188 67 27082 107 1999-07-07 United States 7h 5min Signup!
OPNLguy 67 11584 259 1999-06-15 United States 6h 18min Signup!
Diamond 66 2837 70 2004-04-11 United States 3h 14min
SlamClick 64 8888 196 2003-11-22 United States 34days 22h Signup!
EA CO AS 64 8528 85 2001-11-14 United States 6h 17min Signup!
GDB 63 9417 123 2001-05-23 United Kingdom 15h 54min Signup!
CastleIsland 62 3197 45 2006-03-10 United States 1day 8h Signup!
AeroWesty 62 15491 77 2004-10-30 United States 34days 22h Signup!
BCAInfoSys 60 2710 67 2003-09-11 United States 7h 22min
ihadapheo 60 4766 66 2001-09-17 United States 34days 22h Signup!
PanAm_DC10 60 2818 95 2000-08-23 Australia 5days 16h
garnetpalmetto 59 4472 49 2003-10-20 United States 8h 29min
Horus 59 5230 85 2004-02-21 Egypt 34days 22h
AA61Hvy 59 12778 43 1999-11-05 United States 9h 18min Signup!
BMIFlyer 58 7434 64 2004-02-22 United Kingdom 34days 22h
lightsaber 58 3125 114 2005-01-19 United States 11h 2min
Astuteman 58 3245 104 2005-01-24 United Kingdom (England) 5h 0min
HB-IWC 58 3498 163 2000-09-21 Greece 4h 47min Signup!
cfalk 57 10448 101 2000-12-04 United States 13h 21min Signup!
teahan 57 5172 59 1999-11-21 Virgin Islands (British) 20days 19h Signup!
usnseallt82 57 4840 56 2004-01-06 United States 28days 8h Signup!
BA 57 10052 100 2000-05-19 United States 6days 9h Signup!
halls120 57 8645 54 2005-06-04 United States 9min 38sec Signup!
vaporlock 57 3425 66 2001-05-19 Canada 2days 13h Signup!
skidmarks 57 6327 56 2004-12-10 United Kingdom (England) 17h 40min
mirrodie 56 6062 57 2000-04-18 United States 4days 18h
MD11Engineer 56 8123 82 2003-10-25 Germany 2h 17min Signup!
SA006 56 1818 62 2003-09-15 South Africa 7days 13h
MAH4546 56 19939 180 2001-01-24 Sweden 11h 14min Signup!
captaingomes 56 6348 84 2001-02-12 Canada 34days 22h Signup!
clickhappy 56 8196 115 2001-09-13 United States 20h 29min
zvezda 55 9252 116 2004-08-28 Lithuania 19days 3h Signup!
B2707SST 55 1297 58 2003-04-22 United States 34days 22h Signup!
USAFHummer 55 10602 67 2000-05-18 United States 1day 5h
gkirk 55 22337 88 2000-06-14 United Kingdom (Scotland) 16h 41min Signup!
mrniji 55 5594 75 2004-02-29 India 34days 22h Signup!
TimdeGroot 54 2793 76 2002-04-24 Netherlands 20h 19min
ScarletHarlot 54 3733 52 2003-07-22 Canada 6h 53min
saxdiva 54 2378 39 2004-06-20 United States 24days 6h Signup!
yyz717 54 14846 62 2001-09-10 Canada 53min 2sec Signup!
IBERIA747 54 1522 56 2003-08-18 Spain 1day 15h
N178UA 54 1391 109 2001-01-07 Australia 5days 8h
Banco 53 14311 57 2001-10-29 United Kingdom (England) 6h 5min Signup!
Granite 53 5146 102 1999-05-18 United Kingdom (Scotland) 19min 35sec
WILCO737 53 1956 93 2004-06-19 Germany 1h 15min
HAWK21M 52 23128 105 2001-01-05 India 3h 53min Signup!
widebodyphotog 52 894 100 1999-06-30 United States 34days 22h Signup!
trekster 51 4325 63 2003-12-25 United Kingdom (England) 17h 36min
[email protected] 51 13934 76 2001-01-13 United Kingdom 2min 44sec Signup!
BestWestern 51 4042 51 2000-09-08 Ireland 3days 4h Signup!
WINGS 51 2415 113 2005-05-30 Portugal 5days 3h Signup!
INNflight 51 3119 73 2004-04-12 Austria 1h 35min Signup!
Starlionblue 51 11701 126 2004-02-27 Greenland 1h 25min Signup!
PlaneHunter 50 1890 48 2006-03-13 Germany 17h 12min Signup!




And below here is a list of posters from that list that agree with it.
















































Big difference isn't it.
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:31 pm



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 73):
The process was totally transparent.

Transparent to the moderating staff, with offical traffic only. What about back channels? This whole situation imparts a partial vacuum.

And I will ask this directly to you VC-10:

Will DM address this issue, offer a comment, or is the moderating staff the highest we can go in the chain?
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1490
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:35 pm



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 73):

Why? I have nothing to hide. I don't have a situation, the e-mails I sent (on several occasions over the last few years) were sent to the mod mailing list, all the mods were aware of my views. The process was totally transparent.

Fair play (and I'm not going to get into an argument), but what I'm saying is that it would've been more acceptable to come out and admit informing the mods/DM if the member who get removed/demoted was unpopular and there was a valid reason. ANCFlyer's case is totally different as he was removed in a way which can be described as "unjust" and something that hardly anyone is going to buy in to.

You may personally think that you have nothing to hide, but in a situation like this would having nothing to hide be such a good idea?
 
User avatar
jid
Posts: 889
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:37 pm

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:45 pm

I don't see what the big deal is ... Screeners that don't achieve their targets or perform get removed from the team without all this fuss on a fairly regular basis. No offence to ANCFlyer but if the owners of the site did not like his moderating style then it is the right to remove him. I don't know the guy at all and I'm sure it is not nice being fired but hey welcome to the real world.

Jid.
G7EPN is back after 15 years! Operating all Bands 80mtrs -> 70cms QRZ DX
 
kmh1956
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:08 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:50 pm



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 73):
The process was totally transparent.

To whom? The general membership? Any of the rest of you aware of this? Did anyone get emails or IMs?

Nah...didn't think so...

What a shame it is that being blunt, outspoken, honest and fair now gets you kicked in the ass. I always thought that they were GOOD qualities...
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
Farcry
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:39 pm

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:10 pm

VC-10. Whilst I appreciate you partaking in this thread there is something niggling me. You (apart from Kai) are the only one replying to peoples dismay at this decision. Is it not possible to hear from other other Head Mods/Mods/Crew and more especially DM themselves about ANC's dismissal? Or are they 'under orders' not to respond? Just a question and not meant to be argumentative.

I have to say though, to me, the pep has gone from this site and that can't be good.

Farcry
Exactly how long is a drastic measure?
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
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RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:16 pm

It seems like DMs decision has caused a lot of peoples cats pain. Is there anyone here that agrees with the decision? With all the complaints ANC has caused some of the authors of these complaints should have the stones to post their viewpoint here.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:22 pm



Quoting Farcry (Reply 79):
Or are they 'under orders' not to respond?

I believe the applicable term is "Non-Disclosure Agreement"
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ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
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RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:23 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 80):
With all the complaints ANC has caused some of the authors of these complaints should have the stones to post their viewpoint here.

I don't see it happening. The only crew response we've seen is from VC-10, (besides Kai's) and he admits to not being "in the know" about the decision beforehand. My guess is that the decision-maker in this case has less than 100 posts, and a RR in the single digits.
 
Farcry
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RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:30 pm



Quoting TedTAce (Reply 81):
Quoting Farcry (Reply 79):
Or are they 'under orders' not to respond?

I believe the applicable term is "Non-Disclosure Agreement"

Thanks TedTAce. Nice to get the 'official' term

Farcry
Exactly how long is a drastic measure?
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:32 pm



Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 82):


Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 80):
With all the complaints ANC has caused some of the authors of these complaints should have the stones to post their viewpoint here.

I don't see it happening. The only crew response we've seen is from VC-10, (besides Kai's) and he admits to not being "in the know" about the decision beforehand. My guess is that the decision-maker in this case has less than 100 posts, and a RR in the single digits.

I wasn't referring to the crew. I know their communication is privileged as it should be. I was under the understanding that their were alot of customer or user complaints. I would like to see the users that took issue with ANC post their view points here in a decent an mature manner.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:37 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 84):
I wasn't referring to the crew. I know their communication is privileged as it should be. I was under the understanding that their were alot of customer or user complaints. I would like to see the users that took issue with ANC post their view points here in a decent an mature manner.

Gotcha - and I don't see that happening either.
 
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PanAm_DC10
Community Manager
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RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:42 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 25):
allow me to say no one on the Moderator Crew was briefed

Pep has stated it as it is. VC-10 has answered as many questions as possible and this thread has started to drift in the wrong direction. Yes, some posts that violated the rules were deleted.

As stated the Head Moderators were not informed. The Moderators were all sent a message at the same time.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Further, I'll support Airliners and will continue to support airliners

That says a lot about Pep he'll still be a member of the site and will be posting away.

Quoting Farcry (Reply 79):
Or are they 'under orders' not to respond?

No we are not under any such instructions or orders.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 81):
I believe the applicable term is "Non-Disclosure Agreement"

Moderators volunteer their time as such so we don't and have not signed any sort of Non-disclosure Agreement. Nor are we required to.

PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
aloges
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RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:44 pm

Every time I think about putting my name and personal info back in my profile, something like this happens. DM, will you ever try to actually clean up the porcelain shop or just keep on smashing the china so you'll have room for the new line of plastic dishes?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
TedTAce
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RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:51 pm



Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 87):
Moderators volunteer their time as such so we don't and have not signed any sort of Non-disclosure Agreement

From a practical standpoint you should be correct.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 87):
Nor are we required to.

I could understand the international mods not being required to as enforcing such contracts internationally is likely more hassle then it's worth. But I'm really surprised to hear that the American mods (per your account) do not. That doesn't make good business sense for DM.
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PanAm_DC10
Community Manager
Posts: 4115
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RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:09 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 86):
perfectly predictable from a corporate standpoint.

Your point is valid. If anything it's an indication that the site has transitioned into more of a corporate entity than in the past even though it remains a private company. As you would be aware, regulatory disclosure requirements for a private company are far less stringent than a listed company in the U.S.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 89):
But I'm really surprised to hear that the American mods (per your account) do not.

No, the American Moderators have not had to sign anything. The same structure has been kept in place, 9 moderators and 3 Head Moderators. No such agreements have been signed that I am aware of.

We abide by the rule that what we discuss amongst the Crew remains confidential. As Pep noted.

PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:24 pm

Is it possible to ask why was ANCFlyer dismissed and who took that decision?
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
Cadet985
Posts: 2254
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RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:27 pm



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 62):
It is time to look for another site or create one. This(airliners.net) is headed south fast.

I agree, but realistically, who has the time, money, or resources.

ANC, in the couple of dealings I had with you, I found you to be nothing but polite and professional. I can't really say anything about the other mods because I've never dealt with them.

Marc
 
Farcry
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:39 pm

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:30 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 91):
Is it possible to ask why was ANCFlyer dismissed and who took that decision?

Nice to see you were re-instated SOBHI51.

Dare I say 'Welcome back'

Farcry
Exactly how long is a drastic measure?
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:34 pm



Quoting Farcry (Reply 93):
Nice to see you were re-instated SOBHI51.

Just a misunderstanding and PanAm_DC10 was fair nice and friendly.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
Farcry
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:39 pm

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:50 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 94):
ng Farcry (Reply 93):
Nice to see you were re-instated SOBHI51.

Just a misunderstanding and PanAm_DC10 was fair nice and friendly.

Kudos to PanAM_DC10 on this occassion then. Good result all round.

Farcry
Exactly how long is a drastic measure?
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:50 pm



Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 92):
I agree, but realistically, who has the time, money, or resources.

I do, PM me.
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VC-10
Posts: 3552
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RE: ANCFlyer No Longer Crew

Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:52 pm

I'm going to lock this thread now nothing more can be accomplished in letting it continue.

To summarise:-

We acknowledge a lot of members are unhappy with this turn of events.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 91):
Is it possible to ask why was ANCFlyer dismissed and who took that decision?

ANC explained this in the thread starter. The decision was taken by the site owners, DM. The moderators were not part of the decision making process. The first the mods knew of it was 90 mins before ANC started this thread

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