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miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:49 pm



Quoting Scottieprecord (Reply 52):
Anet isn't going anywhere but up.

There are no guarantees in life...

Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:54 pm



Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 2):
The fact remains though that there is nowhere else that I have found that has the same sense of community as a.net.

 checkmark 

Quoting Aloges (Reply 15):
so serious that the many folks who made this a nice place over the 5 1/2 years that I've been here are hardly posting anymore.

I can think of half a dozen off the top of my head that haven't posted in 34 days - or longer.

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 16):
Really? Alexa would disagree with you.

I can't see the charts you post for some reason, but have seen them at other times. Don't those represent the whole site? I was talking specifically about the non-av forum.
 
LON-CHI
Posts: 204
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Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:00 pm



Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 50):
since First Class member don't see the ads anyway, there won't be much of a difference.

...or those using Firefox's Adblocker & NoScript!
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:05 pm



Quoting EvilForce (Reply 16):
Over all page visits are up 11%. Traffic is down 4% from it's 3 month trailing average. Here's traffic for the past 3 years.

I see a site that in the last 12 months peaked at about #1900 and on the worst day was somewhere around 3600 in the rankings vs. best at 1600 and worst at about 2600 for the previous year. Not exactly what I'd call a growth curve.

Just guesstimating from the graph looks like the average daily rank has slipped from about 2000-2100 to 1500-1600 in a year. That's again not indicative of an improving position.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 41):
- The employees acknowledged the shaky times, and truthfully expected things to improve

I'm hoping that you're trying to stick up for Pep here but really I'm not sure. If so, it's the first I've seen resembling this from another mod and you are to be congratulated.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
IFEMaster
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:23 pm



Quoting Scottieprecord (Reply 52):
the site will be simply a new version of itself.

And if the track record thus far is any indication of what that new version will look like, it will be a new version that is just a shadow of it's former self. The heart of this community will be gone, it'll be further riddled with inappropriate advertisements, and, as someone has already suggested, will probably mostly be a portal for booking travel online.

Quoting Scottieprecord (Reply 52):
Anet isn't going anywhere but up.

I'll contest that. The success of a.net isn't in reliability or uptime, even though those things are important, it is in the solidarity and community between the users. It is the users that caused a.net to snowball from 'Pictures of Modern Airliners' in to what it was when Johan sold to DM. Thus far, DM's lack of interest in the community has caused that to begin eroding away, and it isn't going to stop. "Up" isn't where airliners.net is headed.

By the way, thank you, Moderators, for allowing this thread to continue.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:25 pm



Quoting EvilForce (Reply 8):
Frankly, this is a message board. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Well, there is that whole photo database thingy....

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 19):
DM doesn't appear to like/appreciate criticism at all....

I think this is the most pressing issue here.

We ask for a list of bugs that DM knows about and the priority assigned to them, we are met with curt responses or just a standard "we are working very hard, please be patient." And then there are promises of "good things" in the future. That is of course when we get a response at all.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:31 pm



Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 59):
Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 19):
DM doesn't appear to like/appreciate criticism at all....

I think this is the most pressing issue here.

No, it's communication IMO. With consistent communication the criticism would be much less. Here's an example, flyheligirl is supposed to be in charge of "communication" with users. Presumably Site Related is the primary venue for such. In January she made a grand total of two posts in SR and none to date in February. There's a lot of unrest among the users now, she could at least give us a Baghdad Bob impression.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
miamiair
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:40 pm

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 60):
at least give us a Baghdad Bob impression.

You called?


It would be nice to see some communication from DM. I know everybody is busy these days, but I have sent them an e-mail, I will wait to see if it gets answered.

[Edited 2008-02-07 11:41:46]
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:43 pm



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 60):
No, it's communication IMO.

Well, yeah, that was what I was trying to get at. My first post made that a bit more clearer, but then the thread was moved before I got a change to post it.

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 60):
There's a lot of unrest among the users now

I thing DM's strategy rests with getting new members. As long as they continue to pony up, us current members will continue to be ignored.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
andessmf
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:58 pm

If the site was not creating some sort of profit, or had some type of value, DM would not have purchased it.

While there is value to the site besides the forums, the forums are what I would call the 'heart' of a.net. Many of us have been fortunate to meet other forum members thru meets and conversations.

A.net, however, was/is/will be nothing more than a hobby site. Nothing wrong with that, as many take their hobbies VERY seriously. Those who participate in the forum are even more serious about their love for aviation.

DM has to be concerned about keeping the a.net heart alive, and should figure out what other type of value they could add for members to get us all to justify 1st class membership. It has not been done so far. Whatever they are doing in the background to make a.net sustainable in the long term is good, but the personal relationships have to be taken care of as well.

For example, I could work very hard to keep my family well supplied. But if while I am working hard to do so, I don't take care of my personal relationship with my family, the results could be very dire.

Similar situation here.
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:38 pm

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 61):
You called?



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 61):
It would be nice to see some communication from DM. I know everybody is busy these days, but I have sent them an e-mail, I will wait to see if it gets answered.

That picture is so screaming for a photoshopping.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 63):
While there is value to the site besides the forums, the forums are what I would call the 'heart' of a.net. Many of us have been fortunate to meet other forum members thru meets and conversations.

Exactly!

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 63):
DM has to be concerned about keeping the a.net heart alive, and should figure out what other type of value they could add for members to get us all to justify 1st class membership.

They should be concerned, unfortunately they don't have to be and apparently are not.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 63):
It has not been done so far.

Another bull's eye!

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 63):
Whatever they are doing in the background to make a.net sustainable in the long term is good, but the personal relationships have to be taken care of as well.

I'm not so sure they're doing a lot "in the background". One of the last posts here by flyheligirl admitted that they weren't even managing the servers properly, i.e. low memory didn't trigger an alert. It takes less than 15 minutes to set up basic monitoring and alerts on a server - assuming you know what you're doing. Less time if it's not the first server. Of course you can spend lots of time customizing afterwords, but for basic stuff (like disk space, memory, HW failures, etc.) it's not necessary.

You're dead on about the personal stuff though.

[Edited 2008-02-07 12:39:45]
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
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LTU932
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:06 pm

What I find sad in recent posts in SR that were locked, is that I didn't have time to elaborate on my accusation that DM only works business days and neglects lots of things at all. Instead, a response is made that is totally impersonal but should have been addressed to me and the other members instead of just talking about a "certain person(s)". To me it seems recently that DM's motto is "Our way, or the highway", and that can't be right. Yes, this site has become a business, but to even make this a successful business, you need satisfied customers.

Remember when I mentioned the term CSAT in another thread here in SR? What I'd like to see is a public survey from DM, asking the members of Airliners.net about how satisfied they are with the site and the administration, with the results appearing immediately after voting.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
NIKV69
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:29 pm



Quoting Cumulonimbus (Thread starter):
With the treatment of a certain respected mod, glitches and amoung other things is anyone considering leaving A.net?

No.

Quoting Cumulonimbus (Thread starter):
Long time members who were the core of this site were treated as if they were nothing.

I'm curious as to who is the "core of this site" can you elaborate? Also I fail to see how anyone is getting treated any differently than any other.

Quoting 747438 (Reply 3):
The site is no longer a hobby site. It is now a business and therefore by definition, the focus will not be on the users, but profits.

This is sucb BS, I still upload my pics here, enjoy talking to my friends and participating in the forums. Your going to tell me that because Pep got fired, had down time due to the server migration and the fact that DM makes a buck (like Johan did) it's not a hobby site. It's just smoke and mirrors, nothing more.

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 9):
we've seen the post counts go way down - especially in the non-av forum.

This is not necessarily a bad thing.

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 9):
I've read all the stories, and in some cases people have called for the removal of the non-av forum, but I don't think that would be a good move. If you look at the stats, non-av has hugh particapation from most of the users with the higest RRs, and the highest numbers of posts. Clearly indicating that it is the second "favorite" forum on A-Net.

Non-Av should not be removed but we should stop treating it and some of the "core users" as gospel.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 14):
I mentioned this in the thread that was locked... I think it's time the whole lot of moderators be let go. Not because I think they're all jerks, or do their job poorly... but because VC10 said that Demand Media is attempting to turn this website into a brand name, and has plans for future growth.

I agree with you. I don't think the reason is the same though. To moderate the forums in the most fair manner you need nuetral people that don't have the entrenched relationships with users. No matter how hard you try you can't keep the playing field level and rules strictly enforced. It would be better if you put 10 guys with no ties to the hobby or the site in front of monitors to police the forum. You would get a much better job of it done.

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 17):
It is headed down the crapper. And I am begining to wean myself from it. This site was great at one point, but now is part of corporate America, where they get rid of someone that says it like it is, doesn't pussy-foot around and calls a spade a spade

Look, I like Pep a lot and agree with just about all he says but his approach was a little blunt. I have no problem with his approach to moderating but your dealing with people from all over the world with different personalities. You can't have that in your face kind of approach and not insult or offend someone on a regular basis. When your dealing with this kind of cross section of people you have to be more diplomatic and DM felt that is what was needed.

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 19):
If this thread lasts longer than 24 hours, I'll be stunned. DM doesn't appear to like/appreciate criticism at all....and will lock a thread if they don't like what's being said.

Can we stop the censorship propaganda. The thread is still active.

Quoting AA777 (Reply 20):
As far as the behavior of DM and the moderators... I think we need to take a step back and realize that they are in the process of trying to improve the site, and make it more appealing for everyone. They have a job to do; which is to make sure that people here act civilized and not like babies. Perhaps they felt that certain people were not doing anything to improve the site, or its moderation. I know everyone here would like to feel like a close-knit group, and its kind of sweet that people are supporting their friend... but at the same time remember that we dont know everything and there must be more than meets the eye. I'm sure things will improve soon....

Part of the problem, the people who are the most mad always forget that there are other users and things outside of their own RU list. It's typical.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 59):
Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 19):
DM doesn't appear to like/appreciate criticism at all....

I think this is the most pressing issue here.

And your basing this on what?
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
747438
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:33 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 69):
Quoting 747438 (Reply 3):
The site is no longer a hobby site. It is now a business and therefore by definition, the focus will not be on the users, but profits.

This is sucb BS, I still upload my pics here, enjoy talking to my friends and participating in the forums. Your going to tell me that because Pep got fired, had down time due to the server migration and the fact that DM makes a buck (like Johan did) it's not a hobby site. It's just smoke and mirrors, nothing more.

It was a hobby site a few years ago. It is now part of a corporation !
 
trekster
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:48 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 68):
What I'd like to see is a public survey from DM, asking the members of Airliners.net about how satisfied they are with the site and the administration, with the results appearing immediately after voting.

That will never happen Sad
Where does the time go???
 
andessmf
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:00 pm



Quoting 747438 (Reply 64):
It is now part of a corporation !

It is a hobby site that is part of a corporation. No one here (really) needs a.net to survive in the world. Most of us are here because we LIKE it, not because we HAVE to.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:26 pm

Hello all,
Before I start let me quell any conspiracy theory notions that may result that I was told to write this or compelled to write this in any way. It isn't my style - never has been, never will be. This comes from me as a user first.

Reading through this therad got me thinking msyelf about a few things. A.net's not the place it was when I joined it 4 years ago. Nor is it the same place as when I became a mod 2 years ago. The site has new owners now and it's been a bumpy road the last year. Migrating the servers was a task that nobody, not even DM, realized would be as Herculean as it turned out to be. A haphazard grouping of several different coding languages will do that. As others have pointed out, the site has had its share of bumps in the past - the near-mythical closing of the non-av forums from back before I joined, the changeover from a free site to a pay site (again back before I joined), respected and valued users have left for one reason or another, and respected and valued crew members have left for one reason or another. I remember being trained as a mod by IHAP (anyone else remember him?) and I'll miss working with a top-notch guy like Pep. I think if we all had our druthers we could freeze a moment in time and keep the site as we remembered it then. But things change.

What doesn't change is the spirit of the people who make up this community. I stay a part of a.net for a.net - not the collection of servers and coding, but the spirit of the thing. It's a special community to me and always will be. Is it changing? Yes. Is it changing negatively? No. To use someone else's analogy - the restaurant may have new owners, some of the staff may have changed, but the menu hasn't. We're still offering the same services as before. Most importantly, the spirit of its users hasn't changed, I don't think. A.net is more than the sum of its parts - it's its members that set it apart and collectively, I think, we will continue to soldier on as we have before.

That's not to say that things still aren't being worked on and don't hve room for improvement. We all need to have patience, with each other, with DM, and with the evolution of the site from that small site started by Johan to where it is now. Patience is definitely a virture, but I think that with that patience, we'll all see that in the destination was worth the rough road.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
bhmbaglock
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:50 pm



Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 67):
Migrating the servers was a task that nobody, not even DM, realized would be as Herculean as it turned out to be.

Unfortunately, that's indicative of some of the problems - they're supposed to be pros but clearly have no clue regarding accepted IT practices, i.e. planning and especially testing and basic server management. There are a lot of users on this site who do such for a living and we know how it should be done and cringe when we see a train wreck like the migration.

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 67):
I remember being trained as a mod by IHAP (anyone else remember him?)

Hell yes! We love the chimp!

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 67):
and I'll miss working with a top-notch guy like Pep.

He is definitely that.

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 67):
- the restaurant may have new owners, some of the staff may have changed, but the menu hasn't.

Unfortunately, new owners/management with the same menu is more often than not the kiss of death for a previously successful restaurant.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
Tornado82
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:38 pm

Simple Answer: Yes

And I'll back it up with a reason...
When there is a thread about some little request about a new feature on the forums or some downtime that is already back up and running... we quickly get a response from Flyheligirl (aka Monique) giving us some little sugar coated gloss like any good PR person should do. The point is she is a paid employee of DM, and that is what she should do, she's just doing her job.

Unfortunately when there are actual problems that a group of users are complaining about, the absolute most we get is input from mods. I respect mods for stepping into the fire and usually keeping an open mind (although there were exceptions in the Pep getting fired thread). Furthermore it was usually ANCFlyer leading the way in those threads and the one keeping the most open mind instead of just pish-poshing the members in a PC way... but that's for a different discussion.

The mods, however, are just volunteers. When there are serious issues that are repetitively being brought up by the users here on site related about the overall direction of the site, DM's involvement, the site going downhill since DM's takeover, etc... there is never an actual input from DM. In the thread about Pep getting fired I specifically and respectfully implored of Monique to come in and give us the official DM response in that discussion... instead the "response" was the thread getting locked by VC-10 with no real reasoning behind it. A month or so prior to that there was a very long thread with GREAT moderator and user dialogue about a "review board" and other issues people were having with the moderation. A few moderators really stepped up in that thread and were making it a VERY positive thread... but yet no "official" DM appearances by Monique, Paulo (I believe that's his name??), or anyone else... and then that thread was locked I believe. There was that "Come on DM! Sort it out" thread where Cwillett came in... but instead of positive input he basically belittled users for complaining about the site development end of the business (which were very legitimate complaints considering the circumstances) and complained about his own overtime. The gesture of coming in was nice, but the content was a bit lacking in my opinion and really did nothing to say what improvements were made, what problems we can continue to expect, or a timeframe for stuff getting better... basically it left us with more questions than answers and just more of that bitter taste in our mouths.

So I ask once again, why is there no DM *OFFICIAL* response in these types of threads ever? Why can't DM come in and say "You know what, we admit that _____ was wrong and we messed _____ up, but here's how we're working to make it better." And then... actually follow up on your word!! The moderators are not the PR staff. DM actually does have a PR person, but she only comes in when she can gloss over an issue or pat DM's own back it is starting to seem. I have no personal issues with Monique or anyone else... but the fact remains that you leave us hanging in these types of threads and that does absolutely nothing to instill confidence in DM. When Johan ran the show and there were problems voiced about the site (assuming they were voiced in a civil manner) he would come in, explain his side of the story, and be a stand up guy. Even when people disagreed with him, which did happen quite often, they none the less appreciated his response and the fact that he cared enough to come in instead of brushing us off.

It would go a LONG way in the name of customer relations if DM adopted that policy as well. Deleting every thread/post critical of you isn't the way to go... nor is brushing off viable complaints. And this thread is just as good of a place as any to end what so far has been a disturbing trend of apathy towards legitimate concerns from users... and covering up constructive criticism by deleting posts, locking threads, and/or banning users.
 
miamiair
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:55 pm

One other thing I would like to add, there have been more positive responses about ANCFlyer as opposed to negative ones. I can deal with blunt honesty, there are others that can't. And they aren't saying a peep. DM, we, at least I am a paying member here too, and I think you messed up getting rid of a person that that will tell you you are full of crap, here's a ban, nothing personal but you broke the rules, and then go have a beer with you. You don't come accross that type every day.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
aloges
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:07 am



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 69):
Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 67):
I remember being trained as a mod by IHAP (anyone else remember him?)

Hell yes! We love the chimp!

2nd! I'm sure most of us would be able to reminisce for hours on end. People who left, "traditions" that went the way of the Dodo, discussion culture that's changed and so on. But that would be off topic and exactly what 2H4 meant with this:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 41):
intangibles such as atmosphere and community

One very tangible thing, and the one that has been stated over and over and over again as the main reason for dissatisfaction is the lack of communication. We used to get updates on little upgrades to the site, we were asked our opinions on others, we were requested to help out through live-testing new features and so on. That was important to many of us because a.net was "our place" on the internet. That is one of the things that made this site big: you could feel sort of at home.

I'll use a poor analogy here: We've been asked about most little changes to e.g. the curtains, the countertop and the tiles for years. Then suddenly, DM told us they were going to redo the room setup, carpets, roof, garden, heating, plumbing and wiring, many of those at once, and turn off the power every now and then. Of course we didn't like that change!

Communication certainly wasn't flawless before the takeover, but there was more of it and whenever Johan said "the site" you knew he meant "my site". That was respected for the most part.
Nowadays, when we're lucky enough to find a DM crew response, we have to accept that Flyheligirl will have to ask just what exactly the developers are trying out before she can even attempt an explanation. On top of that, most of the disgruntled members probably see her as a spokeswoman for a faceless corporation whose ultimate goal is to create a collection of websites that'll one day make a sweet buck in another bigger takeover.
Compare that to the "it's my baby" approach we had before the DM saga and Johan's presumable goal of running the best aviation photo/hobby/news website around.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:17 am



Quoting Trekster (Reply 65):
That will never happen

Sad, but true. Still, it's good to bring that up.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 70):
There was that "Come on DM! Sort it out" thread where Cwillett came in... but instead of positive input he basically belittled users for complaining about the site development end of the business (which were very legitimate complaints considering the circumstances) and complained about his own overtime. The gesture of coming in was nice, but the content was a bit lacking in my opinion and really did nothing to say what improvements were made, what problems we can continue to expect, or a timeframe for stuff getting better... basically it left us with more questions than answers and just more of that bitter taste in our mouths.

So I ask once again, why is there no DM *OFFICIAL* response in these types of threads ever? Why can't DM come in and say "You know what, we admit that _____ was wrong and we messed _____ up, but here's how we're working to make it better." And then... actually follow up on your word!! The moderators are not the PR staff. DM actually does have a PR person, but she only comes in when she can gloss over an issue or pat DM's own back it is starting to seem. I have no personal issues with Monique or anyone else... but the fact remains that you leave us hanging in these types of threads and that does absolutely nothing to instill confidence in DM. When Johan ran the show and there were problems voiced about the site (assuming they were voiced in a civil manner) he would come in, explain his side of the story, and be a stand up guy. Even when people disagreed with him, which did happen quite often, they none the less appreciated his response and the fact that he cared enough to come in instead of brushing us off.

Well put. The cwillett response was exactly what I was referring to. If I had addressed that issue to Johan, he would have responded in public and explained his position. I admit, even in certain sites that I'm not at liberty to talk about, Johan has taken lots of heat from us, and sometimes going to the extreme. But deep down, we knew he was making an effort, and we all respected that. On the other hand, it's the absolute opposite with DM. They have taken the heat like Johan has, but unlike Johan, DM has been silent, disrespectful with regards to their treatment of their customers (e.g. the lies about the VibrantAdverts, their lack of communication to us and their outright dismissal of our ideas and suggestions and request for fixes to the site).

Johan certainly did with the site whatever he wanted, but he did that by taking into account what has made this site grow, us users; he simply cared. Demand Media did not take us into account and IMO they don't care about us, thus making Airliners.net a victim of its own success, because if it wasn't successful, Johan may never have sold the site in the first place. Just my €0.02.

- Richie
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
andessmf
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:40 am

Questions:

1. Where is Johan?
2. Why hasn't he posted since October 24, 2007?
3. Originally, Johan was going to remain, forgot for what purpose. But two things come to mind:
a. Why wasn't he used to communicate back to the users?
b. Why has his name disappeared from the 'about' page? His profile still calls him 'Founder', but otherwise his original accomplishment is nowhere to be found.
4. Is Henks still system admin? If so, why hasn't he also communicated with the users?

In addition:

In most takeovers that I have witnessed, the original owners stay around for quite a while to smooth the transition. Why did it not happen here?
 
Toast
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RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:39 am



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 66):
No one here (really) needs a.net to survive in the world.

That's true, LOL!!!!

Signed,
B747forever

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 74):
Where is Johan?



 duck 
Shit Piss Fuck Cunt Cocksucker Motherfucker Tits
 
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LTU932
Posts: 13725
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:25 am

This is what I don't understand, over an hour ago Flyheligirl posted this thread, annoucing new forum rules and TOS:
New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy (by Flyheligirl Feb 7 2008 in Site Related)

She doesn't even make a single appearance in this thread with at least a short statement. This confirms what I've said in my initial post about DM not caring about us. Like I said, a good business needs satisfied customers. Positive CSAT is absolutely paramount for providing a service or support, and the more dissatisfied members there are, the worse business becomes.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
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keesje
Posts: 14307
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:53 pm



Quoting [email protected] (Reply 34):
My main problem with A.net is that some of its moderators are moody, rude, and they think they're God.

I don't claim to have added anything usefull to the forums during the last 6 yrs but I have been banned twice for a long period recently. And I think it wasn't me that changed a lot.

I think I encountered a mod that sees conspiracies of members everywhere and uses rule "227Bbullit 6" bureaucratic reasons and general applicable subjective ones as "low quality post" to get after you.

Better not ask "why" because he immediately starts threatening to ban you. Strangely he is backed by senior mods.

Realistically I must expect to be banned even longer / forever soon for some surprising reason with reference to previous bannings on the member statistics screen. (lacking the obscure reasons / mails why they were imposed..). Joining the growing group of (some well known) banned a.netters that vanished without having a possibility to object, say good bye or tell why.

So to be sure of this : let me say good bye & thank in advance for all discussions, friendly responses, insights. I wish EVERY MEMBER & (good) moderator the best in our beloved aircraft world. Recently I started posting at pprune & fleetbuzz too. pprune is nice /open/ international, personal attacks from members / mods seem absent.

One of only 2 pics I added to the database, avoid those ..

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
6yjjk
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:40 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:21 pm

I think the proof of the pudding will be in the new terms of use, privacy policy, and forum rules.

Given the IntelliTXT fiasco, ANCFlyer's removal as a mod, and everything in between, I'm not overly hopeful.
 
DYflyer
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 3:06 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:07 pm



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 35):
Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 2): Frankly the idea that DM are getting $5 of my money each month isn't exactly heart warming, and I'd much rather take that $5 somewhere else...

I very much agree with you here, especially after wasting at least $5 during the appalling server transfer. It's the reason why I am no longer a FC member - where is my incentive to pay more money for a service which doesn't seem to care about it's clientele?

That said, I am not planning on leaving because as other have said, I have a lot of friends on this site which it would be a shame to walk away from. But it's the only reason.

Exactly Dan. I'm no longer a FC member for the same reason. It isn't about the money. And i have no problem with a company making a profit of a site like this. But i am not going to pay money to a company that doesn't appear to care about or respect their customers.

The reason for staying is the friends i've met here. The news, technical answers etc. can be found on other sites. It is the friendship, the meetings and the inspirations for trips that makes this site special.
Life is like a book. If you don't travel, you only read one page.
 
CubaLibre
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:28 pm

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:14 pm



Quoting DYflyer (Reply 81):
that doesn't appear to care about or respect their customers.

ironically there are 10 or so "old school" members that are allowed to bash anyone they want without an bans, DM is trying to fix it so people are getting upset.
 
JoeCattoli
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:06 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:09 pm

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 67):
A.net is more than the sum of its parts - it's its members that set it apart and collectively, I think, we will continue to soldier on as we have before.

That's not to say that things still aren't being worked on and don't hve room for improvement. We all need to have patience, with each other, with DM, and with the evolution of the site from that small site started by Johan to where it is now. Patience is definitely a virture, but I think that with that patience, we'll all see that in the destination was worth the rough road.

Thank you for your post, it was quite positive and interesting, for what you're allowed to say. The point is IMO the lack of communication we have experienced in the recent times.


Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 69):
There was that "Come on DM! Sort it out" thread where Cwillett came in...

which was almost immediately locked without the possibility of reply to the interesting point he came up with, most of his post was quite positive even if written in a rather annoyed manner and I appreciated the fact he posted.

Cwillett:

Quote:
Lastly, my job responsibilities do not include posting messages in this forum. That is why you do not hear from me often. My time should be spent developing, not posting daily messages. As Monique stated, she will be updating you when there are changes (...) However, Monique will be handling most of this going forward, so I can focus more on programming.

Well we haven't exactly heard much from Monique... and as it was nice to have an answer I can't think making a few posts say once a week like harming you but anyways...


Even if I acknowledge the website has been a little more bug-free lately, my comment to the mentioned thread still stands.

I was also quite disappointed by how the ANCflyer thing was treated as well, no word from DM and for what I understood no advices or dialogues to/with him prior the decision about what the owners didn't like or whatsoever. I didn't agree with quite a number of ANCflyers posts however I think he did, (for the few I can tell) a good job as a moderator and I still think he adds value to this boards.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 71):
We used to get updates on little upgrades to the site, we were asked our opinions on others, we were requested to help out through live-testing new features and so on. That was important to many of us because a.net was "our place" on the internet. That is one of the things that made this site big: you could feel sort of at home.

checkmark This was a very well put thought Aloges, and it's been this change in manners that made a lot more users complain and moan more than before, I still think it's never too late to change and hope for some signs of change in relations.

Regards
Joe

PS: re-post after "referenced post deleted"
 
baguy
Posts: 474
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:04 pm

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:22 pm

I agree with every post in this thread that says this site has gone down hill.

It's actually quite painful to see what happening to the site. I think I can speak for many people in saying: Sorry DM, A.net just isn't as well run or as good without Johan. As many people have already said - It is not a community anymore - it's a business.

I would say it is just mine, but I think it's a lot of peoples twocents 

BAguy  Sad  Sad  Sad
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 30125
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:05 pm



Quoting Baguy (Reply 82):
It is not a community anymore - it's a business.

I guess those are the words.
Earlier Anet was a community where members debated,discussed & made new friends.Learnt a lot & shared some tips on aviation,thats what I did in Tech ops.

We need the community feel to stay.A business atmosphere will loose out on that special bond that existed years ago.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
User avatar
glideslope
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 8:06 pm

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:04 pm



Quoting Keesje (Reply 77):
I don't claim to have added anything usefull to the forums during the last 6 yrs but I have been banned twice for a long period recently. And I think it wasn't me that changed a lot.

I think I encountered a mod that sees conspiracies of members everywhere and uses rule "227Bbullit 6" bureaucratic reasons and general applicable subjective ones as "low quality post" to get after you.

Better not ask "why" because he immediately starts threatening to ban you. Strangely he is backed by senior mods.

Realistically I must expect to be banned even longer / forever soon for some surprising reason with reference to previous bannings on the member statistics screen. (lacking the obscure reasons / mails why they were imposed..). Joining the growing group of (some well known) banned a.netters that vanished without having a possibility to object, say good bye or tell why.

So to be sure of this : let me say good bye & thank in advance for all discussions, friendly responses, insights. I wish EVERY MEMBER & (good) moderator the best in our beloved aircraft world. Recently I started posting at pprune & fleetbuzz too. pprune is nice /open/ international, personal attacks from members / mods seem absent.

I think you nailed it. Can't believe I'm agreeing with you. Man, George Orwell was right. Just taking longer.

Sure am glad I'm a Nature Photographer. What a bummer this is.
"To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5399
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:10 am



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1):
If we can all agree on a new site to "hang out" I am with you

just let me know

Quoting 747438 (Reply 3):
The site is no longer a hobby site. It is now a business and therefore by definition, the focus will not be on the users, but profits.

even if it means screwing us

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 26):
For me, it really doesn't have a lot to do with Pep.

for me it does

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 73):
1. Where is Johan?

don't know but i sure wish he would buy it back

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 73):
2. Why hasn't he posted since October 24, 2007?

read above

Quoting JoeCattoli (Reply 81):
I was also quite disappointed by how the ANCflyer thing was treated as well, no word from DM and for what I understood no advices or dialogues to/with him prior the decision about what the owners didn't like or whatsoever. I didn't agree with quite a number of ANCflyers posts however I think he did, (for the few I can tell) a good job as a moderator and I still think he adds value to this boards.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
 
TCT
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:59 pm

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:19 am

I'm only 19 days old to the site and dont have as much knowledge about the website as many others who have been here for so long, but please can anyone inform me what is going on and what does DM stand for, just a brief description on exactly whats going on, and why so many people are unhappy will be greatly appreciated.
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:00 am



Quoting TCT (Reply 86):
what does DM stand for

DM is shorthand for Demand Media, the owners of this site.

Quoting TCT (Reply 86):
why so many people are unhappy

Oh boy, where to begin! Browse through the threads here in site related, and it should give you an idea.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
User avatar
FYODOR
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 4:13 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:11 pm

I cannot stop to surprise - what is the business model DM going to realise with A.net. Most obvious way would be to improve business and make it more valuable to sell it for bigger money. But not opposite - to buy something good (yeh, with certain problems indeed) and in short time to make number of strong attempts to destroy normal order of site work, system of communication (Johan had realy small team but it was much easy to get assistant or to propose things) and now - as final step - to kill spirit of A.Net itself. How many good photographers would like to grant all rights for their very expencive photos for nothing? Whom A.Net would like to attract on such conditions? The value of this site is its spirit of society, the photographers (many of them are professionals or semi-professionals) who share their works with others for free on free basis. Will it be continued? Not sure. Sombody will stay indeed but it will be another kind of presence. What A.Net will be then? Indeed the site is going worse... And cheaper if DM care on that.
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6885
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:25 am



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 50):
Does anyone ever use the services or products of those advertising?

Not me. Most of the stuff advertised is usless for me personally
 
User avatar
Braybuddy
Posts: 6928
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:14 pm

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:39 am

If anything, this site needs LESS moderation that more. I don't lose any sleep over threads locked or deleted, but the problem seems to be consistency.

Obviously all posts can't be checked by moderators, but I get the feeling sometimes that some posters are censored more heavily than others, and the "Low quality post" rule is a joke: only a small percentage of posts on this site could actually be considered good quality.  Big grin
 
saxdiva
Posts: 2332
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:51 pm

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:44 am

Hello to all--I've been a rather infrequent visitor since the disastrous site migration last year. The dismissal of ANCFlyer (which I wasn't aware of until yesterday) and this photo copyright grab are pretty much the final straws here as far as I'm concerned. I only have a handful of photos in the database, but I don't think I can trust DM with them anymore.

And Paolo, you're not off the hook for "not knowing" what your "legal" department was up to. At best, this incident, and your silence about it save for two brief "it's all THEIR fault" messages, reveal you to be completely incompetent at managing your most precious asset--your customer base and goodwill. At worst, they are just one more example of your company's contempt for the community here, which is a pretty sad irony since that's what you folks seem to consider as your primary business.

Either way, I'm not sure I have enough morbid curiosity to see how all this shakes out. It's just too depressing.

Catch y'all later,
Leanne
See terms for details....
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:59 am

JOHAN


We need you!!!!!
Where does the time go???
 
AirTranTUS
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:12 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:13 am

I know this was the case before DM took over, but why does the largest aviation site in the world need to restrict posting content from other aviation websites? Those sites are not nearly as large and posting content from elsewhere benefits the users here who may not have seen it otherwise. I think this site is far enough along now where sharing can be allowed.

Anyone else agree?
I love ASO!
 
qslinger
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:14 pm

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:23 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 63):
This is sucb BS, I still upload my pics here, enjoy talking to my friends and participating in the forums

Ya right, every other word I look at in the forum is highlighted!!! And guess what happens when I hover over them with my mouse, it open a pop up advertising window!!!

Now tell me this is BS too!!! Go on!!! I think you should do your research before talking!!!
Raj Koona
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14260
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:47 am



Quoting Qslinger (Reply 94):
Now tell me this is BS too!!! Go on!!! I think you should do your research before talking!!!

Well I don't see the pop ups. Guess it's one of the differences between my membership and yours. I am not saying you have to pay the 50 bucks a year but if your not going to you really shouldn't get mad at the ads.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 90):
If anything, this site needs LESS moderation that more. I don't lose any sleep over threads locked or deleted, but the problem seems to be consistency.

Obviously all posts can't be checked by moderators, but I get the feeling sometimes that some posters are censored more heavily than others, and the "Low quality post" rule is a joke: only a small percentage of posts on this site could actually be considered good quality.

Good point, also I feel that permanently banning the few that constantly cause problems in the forums would be good too. It's the constant pushing of the envelope we see from these users that causes the numerous problems. Not the moderator inconsistency.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:13 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 95):
. I am not saying you have to pay the 50 bucks a year but if your not going to you really shouldn't get mad at the ads.

Advertising is one thing. Intellitext (and similar) ads are obtrusive and generally make the forums look "low rent."
I lift things up and put them down.
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:03 am

I've been a pretty negative guy on these threads against DM. How much of it has been earned - not sure. The servers haven't gone down recently, from what I've seen, and the site is running otherwise as usual for me. My glass is half full. I just don't want any more promises that A will be done and they're working on B, no problem. It's ridiculous that a DM member like Clickhappy said in the takeover thread that they would "care back", yet Clickhappy hasn't even posted in 3+ months (was fired? had a kid? moved on?). Like said in the other thread, Fred, at least cwillet, Monique and Paulo have been posting somewhat recently . . . but we could use some more interaction from them, especially in threads like these.

How was that Monique? No bitterness, no cuts, no nothing. You've largely been the face of DM here . . . could you at least respond that our comments have been noted?
Living the American Dream
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:49 am



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 97):
yet Clickhappy hasn't even posted in 3+ months (was fired? had a kid? moved on?)

Perhaps you need to pay attention... I may not agree with everything the management and crew are saying here and in the Photo Forum, but I appreciate the input from those that contribute. There are 2 threads(one locked due to size) regarding the new TOU in the Photo Forum, Clickhappy contributed 4 times to the first and twice so far to the second!

Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
deeplight
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:01 pm

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:10 am

Sax Diva
I'm always on the hook. Its my job. and my name is spelled paulo.
Try taking the high road my friend and
get your facts straight.
I've said repeatedly - its my fault on the TOU. I remopved them imediately when I realize what I had done.
This is a recent post in the Photo Aviation section to an A.net member:

I hope this clears up you question:
I just saw your post and yes it would appear that I would have read these over but because my team is so small, I have been swamped with engineering and admin issues this week and when I heard that the TOU were ready to post "I said post so we can get some feed back" - thats exactlyt how the ( ) they got posted. I relied on DM legal and they put it all down. No fools Quantas077..only my mistake and out they went. If you knew what we are dealing with on a day to day basis regarding preparing for the next implementation and so on you might get a better picture of the 12 hour days we all work. I'm in triage and I'm paying for that delegation. It sucks but as I have said - I will fix this and hopefully the photographers and members will see the situation for what it was.
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:22 am

Its interesting that I see a lot of postings here saying "I work 12 hour days trying to make this site better" Well guess what , I work 12 to 16 hour days at my job and do you think that I ever whine to MY customers about it? No, I let results speak for themselves. If I were to work 12 hour days and the results didn't speak for themselves it would be time for me to find another job.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Is A.net Changing Negatively?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:53 am



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 100):
Its interesting that I see a lot of postings here saying "I work 12 hour days trying to make this site better" Well guess what , I work 12 to 16 hour days at my job and do you think that I ever whine to MY customers about it? No, I let results speak for themselves. If I were to work 12 hour days and the results didn't speak for themselves it would be time for me to find another job.

Well said - I'm in the defense contracting business, and I would/could NEVER whine to my customer. That's why they contract me so they can be customers......

Welcome to my RU list BTW.

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