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flyheligirl
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:14 am

New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:17 am

Hi all,

The new Terms of Use and Privacy Policy for Airliners.net will be live tomorrow. I want to start this thread as a platform to ask any questions related to the new Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. I'll post when they are live tomorrow.

Also, there will be new forum rules going live as well, the mods will post an update for the community in Site Related as well.

Thank you,

Monique
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:59 am

If you're going to make us "click" to accept the new rules will you at least please test the functionality first? That's assuming that a test environment has been set up as a result of the migration problems of course.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:44 am

Well, I should wait until I actually see the new rules, but....what where wrong with the old ones?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:00 am

Hi Monique,

I'd like to take just a moment of your time for a question.

When we Premium members first signed up for our account, we had to agree to a "Terms of Agreement", "Site Policy" or what have you. In that agreement it was stated that our $25 gave us the ability to post in the forums as long as airliners.net existed as an entity followed by the standard legalese.

My question is that if, after the new terms of use are not acceptable as reworked by Demand Media, will it be possible to drop our membership and be refunded the initial outlay of $25 USD, seeing as we've already agreed prior to the acquisition to a set of "Terms of Service" (TOS) and are now being asked to accept and adhere to a modified TOS that may not be agreeable to current members whom have joined prior to the acquisition and new TOS?

Of course I understand that this would include forfeiture of any current "handle" and the removal of the user's account, as well as (potentially) any contributions that have been made to the site prior to the implementation of the new ruleset.

I suppose that my real question is: what is the recourse for a member who may not accept the new terms, as based on the previous acceptance, since airliners.net as an entity still continues to exist and the original agreement, as far as I know, didn't include a change of ownership clause.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not jumping ship, however I'm curious about this potential quagmire, and I'm certain that there are lawyers salivating at the thought of this mere question (tort reform, anyone?).


Regards,


-Chris
We can agree to disagree.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:52 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
Well, I should wait until I actually see the new rules, but....what where wrong with the old ones?

The intention of revising the rule is that, hopefully they will be clearer with less ambiguity
 
KFLLCFII
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:08 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:56 pm



Quoting Flyheligirl (Thread starter):

I assume you're also going to spell out exactly what the changes are, in contrast to the old TOS/rules?
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:45 pm



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 4):
The intention of revising the rule is that, hopefully they will be clearer with less ambiguity

This would of course be an improvement. What about the TOS?
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:30 pm

When can we expect to see this document?
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
6yjjk
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:40 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:10 pm

And if the terms state that by posting on a.net we agree to the terms, but we can ask questions only by posting here... I smell a trap  Wink

In all seriousness: Will agreement require some explicit action? or is posting after tomorrow deemed to be agreement? or is merely having a username after tomorrow deemed to be agreement?
 
ChrisI1024
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:21 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:14 pm



Quoting Wukka (Reply 3):
I suppose that my real question is: what is the recourse for a member who may not accept the new terms, as based on the previous acceptance, since airliners.net as an entity still continues to exist and the original agreement, as far as I know, didn't include a change of ownership clause.

As the current terms say: "Like any regulatory system, revisions and changes may be made and new rules added as necessary. Whenever this happens, a notice will be posted in the site related forum." The original agreement allows for changes as necessary.
 
HT
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:38 pm



Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 10):
I'm going to make a prediction...

The new T's & C's will go live shortly before 5pm PST.

I'll be sleeping at that time, so I will have to see what the new T&S and the reactions to it are ...
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
flyheligirl
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:14 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:08 pm

Hi all,

The new Terms of Use (www.airliners.net/termsofuse/) and Privacy policy (www.airliners.net/privacypolicy/) is now live.

All registered users will be sent an email, the email is posted below as well:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Airliners.net User,

Airliners.net is growing rapidly and to support this growth, we have updated our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. Your continued use of Airliners.net after March 8, 2008 will indicate your acceptance of the new Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. If you have any questions, please check site related for further updates and answers to frequently asked questions.

We hope you continue to upload photos and enjoy the Airliners.net site and community!

Your Airliners.net Management Crew

Demand Media, Inc., 1333 Second Street, Suite 100, Santa Monica, CA 90401.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hopefully this explains the process for you. The new Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy will completely replace our old Disclaimer and Privacy Policy. By using the site after 30 days, you (the user) is agreeing with these new terms.

After reading the new Terms of Use and Privacy Policy, if you have any questions please feel free to post here. Try to keep this thread clean of comments that are irrelevant or negative, they will be deleted. We will be keeping this thread very specific so we don't clutter opinion with valid questions.

Thank you,

Monique
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:19 pm



Quoting Flyheligirl (Thread starter):
new Terms

-
I had a short look into the "terms" and what I missed was to see the new parts highlighted or in a distinctly different script, as is the usual thing of good companies and of any law office of seriousity
-

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 5):
you're also going to spell out exactly what the changes ar

right. This is what is explained in, to give an example, the explanations of Swiss cantons and the union in case of proposed changes of law, which of course have to pass through a vote
-
-
it is interesting that a thread about Mitt Romney disappears while the advice about new rules appears. Very strange !
 
jamesbaldwyn
Posts: 747
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:04 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:20 pm

OK - Remove that glaring red text over the text box, already that's pissing me off. For gods sake this is a forum - It doesn't need aggressive paragraphs in block capitals nor as many rules.
 
aloges
Posts: 14807
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:52 pm



Quoting Jamesbaldwyn (Reply 17):
Remove that glaring red text over the text box

I disagree. Make it known to everyone.

Quoting Jamesbaldwyn (Reply 17):
For gods sake this is a forum - It doesn't (...) as many rules.

It's also a photo database and so on.  Wink
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26579
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:58 pm



Quoting Wukka (Reply 3):
and I'm certain that there are lawyers salivating at the thought of this mere question (tort reform, anyone?).

Actually, this has nothing to do with torts. It is governed by contract law.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
6yjjk
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:40 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:01 pm

Can someone translate the privacy policy into English?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
I had a short look into the "terms" and what I missed was to see the new parts highlighted

Hmm, I couldn't see any change at all when I looked - I just checked again and the format is completely different. Perhaps we both saw the old rules, thinking they were the new ones. Take another look?

Quoting Jamesbaldwyn (Reply 17):
OK - Remove that glaring red text over the text box, already that's pissing me off.

And yet, if they hadn't done that, someone would have complained. Damned (Media) if they do, damned if they don't.

Quoting Jamesbaldwyn (Reply 17):
For gods sake this is a forum - It doesn't need aggressive paragraphs in block capitals nor as many rules.

Which specific rules do you think are unnecessary?
 
IFEMaster
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:03 pm

I have a couple of questions...

Quote:
"...for purposes such as (but not limited to) promoting the Site or promoting the availability of such Content on the Site."

This appears to indicate that airliners.net could take a phrase from any user, and post it anywhere else on the Internet or physical materials (t-shirts, posters, flyers etc.) for the purpose of driving traffic to airliners.net. For example, if I said "airliners.net is great!", you could quote me in advertisement. Am I correct?

Quote:
"We have no obligation to provide you with customer support of any kind."

This is a little more concerning, especially since there are people here who, for example, sell their photos. The phrase implies that conceivably airliners.net could turn around and say "sorry, can't help" if, for example, someone was having their copyrighted work used elsewhere without payment, or the cash from photo sales was not making it's way to the photographer. Am I correct? Also, in light of this statement, will the Customer Support department of the volunteer crew remain intact?
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:11 pm

CUSTOMER SUPPORT. We have no obligation to provide you with customer support of any kind. However, we may provide you with customer support from time to time, at our sole discretion, if you have created an Account and you submit your customer support questions using your Account.

Your License to Airliners.net.
Subject to your right to terminate your license to us as described in Section 5(C), you hereby grant Airliners.net an irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, transmit, distribute, publicly perform and display (including in each case by means of a digital audio and video transmission), advertise in, on, and around, and create derivative works of the Content you submit or make available for inclusion on or through the Service, and to incorporate such Content into other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, for purposes such as (but not limited to) promoting the Site or promoting the availability of such Content on the Site.
You also hereby waive any moral rights you may have under the laws of any jurisdiction in Content you submit or make available on or through the Service. While it is our general policy to include your name alongside your Content, we are not obligated to do so.

To Start.

Does the License give DM rights to Photos and content anywhere or only on DM sites or only on Anet
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13726
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:14 pm

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 17):
Quote:
"We have no obligation to provide you with customer support of any kind."

This is a little more concerning, especially since there are people here who, for example, sell their photos. The phrase implies that conceivably airliners.net could turn around and say "sorry, can't help" if, for example, someone was having their copyrighted work used elsewhere without payment, or the cash from photo sales was not making it's way to the photographer. Am I correct? Also, in light of this statement, will the Customer Support department of the volunteer crew remain intact?

Also, since this forum requires payment to sign in, they ARE under obligation to provide customer support. If this was a fully free website, point taken. But since this a website where the forums require payment to sign in and/or post, the people who use that service are entitled to get support from the crew, be it from DM or the Volunteers. After all, it's pointless to pay $5 a month for something that doesn't work at all or get e.g. being forced to pay $10 a month for using FC membership, even though the monthly fee is $5 and the user did not skip payment the previous month. Thus by definition, the owners are obligated to provide support for this website.

[Edited 2008-02-08 15:15:26]
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
IFEMaster
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:20 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 19):
by definition, the owners are obligated to provide support for this website.

I don't know that that would hold up in a court of law. Common courtesy and common sense agree with you, but I don't know that the law does.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
chachu201
Posts: 773
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:22 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:38 pm



Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 17):
Also, in light of this statement, will the Customer Support department of the volunteer crew remain intact?

We'll still be here to give anyone a helping hand  Smile
 
SNCNtry32
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:22 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:40 pm

Monique, is it possible to see an old version, or have highlighted in the new version what has changed?
Long Live Memphis!
 
moderators
Moderator
Posts: 365
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:33 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:41 pm

All,

I have to review all questions with our legal team before posting.

Continue to ask questions and I will absolutely get back to them all, these are the three that I will respond to on Monday.

These are all completely valid questions and you'll get our responses soon.

Just a note, our customer service will stay exactly the same, if not improve. The statements about customer service do not imply that we will not have customer support, that is certainly not the case. It's more of a protection against someone trying to sue for us not helping them with uploads or something like that, but again, I'll answer this much more fully and precisely when we meet with out team.

Thank you,

Monique

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 18):
Your License to Airliners.net.
Subject to your right to terminate your license to us as described in Section 5(C), you hereby grant Airliners.net an irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, transmit, distribute, publicly perform and display (including in each case by means of a digital audio and video transmission), advertise in, on, and around, and create derivative works of the Content you submit or make available for inclusion on or through the Service, and to incorporate such Content into other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, for purposes such as (but not limited to) promoting the Site or promoting the availability of such Content on the Site.
You also hereby waive any moral rights you may have under the laws of any jurisdiction in Content you submit or make available on or through the Service. While it is our general policy to include your name alongside your Content, we are not obligated to do so.

To Start.

Does the License give DM rights to Photos and content anywhere or only on DM sites or only on Anet



Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 17):
I have a couple of questions...

Quote:
"...for purposes such as (but not limited to) promoting the Site or promoting the availability of such Content on the Site."

This appears to indicate that airliners.net could take a phrase from any user, and post it anywhere else on the Internet or physical materials (t-shirts, posters, flyers etc.) for the purpose of driving traffic to airliners.net. For example, if I said "airliners.net is great!", you could quote me in advertisement. Am I correct?

Quote:
"We have no obligation to provide you with customer support of any kind."

This is a little more concerning, especially since there are people here who, for example, sell their photos. The phrase implies that conceivably airliners.net could turn around and say "sorry, can't help" if, for example, someone was having their copyrighted work used elsewhere without payment, or the cash from photo sales was not making it's way to the photographer. Am I correct? Also, in light of this statement, will the Customer Support department of the volunteer crew remain intact?

Please use [email protected] to contact us.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26579
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:11 am



Quoting Moderators (Reply 23):

I have to review all questions with our legal team before posting.

You should also ask them about the validity of unilateral contract changes, particularly to contracts of adhesion.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:13 am



Quoting Aloges (Reply 14):
Quoting Jamesbaldwyn (Reply 17):
Remove that glaring red text over the text box

I disagree. Make it known to everyone.

But does it have to be so big and all-upper case? It's very distracting when posting a reply.

And isn't once enough? Why the other "DETAILED RULES (NEW)" link above the text entry box? Since part of it begins on the same line as "Check your spelling", when I first saw that link I thought it was referring to new rules affecting the spell checker. The positioning of that link (if it's needed at all) could be improved.

Finally, it would be useful to have a summary of what has changed in the new forum rules.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:48 am



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
Finally, it would be useful to have a summary of what has changed in the new forum rules.

With all due respect, if we published a summary no-one would bother to read the revised rules. This way there is no excuse for not being aware of the rules.
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:00 am

I'd also like to get some clarification on the PP Specifically this

AIRLINERS.NET’S SHARING OF INFORMATION. Airliners.net shares information with third parties, but only as described in this Section 4.

1. Advertisers and Others. We share non-personally identifiable information with advertisers, service providers, and other persons with whom we conduct business. Similarly, these advertisers, service providers, and other persons may share with us non-PII about you that they have independently gathered or acquired.
2. Third Party Services. We contract with affiliated and non-affiliated third parties to provide services to us or to you on our behalf. Examples include providing marketing assistance, providing customer service, sending Airliners.net emails to you, removing repetitive information from customer lists, and analyzing data. These third parties may have access to your PII for use solely in connection with these authorized business activities.
3. Business Transfer. As we develop our business, we might sell or buy businesses or their assets, or engage in acquisitions, mergers, restructurings, changes of control, or similar transactions. In such transactions, customer information generally is one of the transferred business assets, and your PII may be subject to such a transfer. Also, in the unlikely event of a bankruptcy, customer information may be transferred to a bankruptcy trustee or debtor in possession and then to a subsequent purchaser.
4. Affiliates. We may share PII, non-PII and other information with our corporate affiliates. Some of our most significant affiliates are identified on the website of our parent company, Demand Media, Inc.. Corporate affiliates are those entities that we control, are controlled by us, or are under common control with us and any joint venture in which any of the controlled entities may participate from time to time. Any use of your information by our corporate affiliates is subject to this Policy or another policy no less protective of your privacy. Conversely, we may obtain information about you from our corporate affiliates or from your visits to other websites that we or our corporate affiliates control.


Does that mean that A.net will be sharing our information for the purposes of marketing (spaming?)
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
Fly747
Posts: 1361
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:03 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:57 am



Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 18):
CUSTOMER SUPPORT. We have no obligation to provide you with customer support of any kind. However, we may provide you with customer support from time to time, at our sole discretion, if you have created an Account and you submit your customer support questions using your Account.

Your License to Airliners.net.
Subject to your right to terminate your license to us as described in Section 5(C), you hereby grant Airliners.net an irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, transmit, distribute, publicly perform and display (including in each case by means of a digital audio and video transmission), advertise in, on, and around, and create derivative works of the Content you submit or make available for inclusion on or through the Service, and to incorporate such Content into other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, for purposes such as (but not limited to) promoting the Site or promoting the availability of such Content on the Site.
You also hereby waive any moral rights you may have under the laws of any jurisdiction in Content you submit or make available on or through the Service. While it is our general policy to include your name alongside your Content, we are not obligated to do so.

To Start.

Does the License give DM rights to Photos and content anywhere or only on DM sites or only on Anet

I'm particularly interested in a clarification of this point as well. Wonder how many people will still be around after March 8th...

Ivan
 
flynavy
Posts: 2179
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:48 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:01 am



Quoting Fly747 (Reply 28):
I'm particularly interested in a clarification of this point as well. Wonder how many people will still be around after March 8th...

Clarification is certainly needed.

The continued presence of my photos on this site depends on it.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:56 am



Quoting Fly747 (Reply 28):



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 29):

So I guess I wasn't the only one who found that portion to be of some concern.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14633
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:08 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
You should also ask them about the validity of unilateral contract changes, particularly to contracts of adhesion.

Just out of curiousity (since you practice in California IIRC), how do the California courts like contracts of adhesion? I assume they must view them positively since we've 'chosen' California law even though the legal department is evidently in Washington.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:12 am



Quoting Chachu201 (Reply 21):
We'll still be here to give anyone a helping hand

Unless you get fired.

Quoting Moderators (Reply 23):
I have to review all questions with our legal team before posting.

Out of curiousity, what's the lawyer to sys admin ratio?

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 27):
Does that mean that A.net will be sharing our information for the purposes of marketing (spaming?)

I really want to know about this. I am going to change my contact e-mail just in case. This could be a problem because it is important to get mail from mods, etc. promptly but I'll be damned if I'll give my primary e-mail address for spamming purposes willingly. I predict considerable communication problems when many members switch to accounts that are checked rarely, if at all. Realistically, I'll switch to my hotmail which is maintained solely as a spam bucket.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14633
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:25 am



Quoting Moderators (Reply 23):
It's more of a protection against someone trying to sue for us not helping them with uploads or something like that, but again, I'll answer this much more fully and precisely when we meet with out team.

Perhaps y'all should perform a cost-benefit analysis regarding some of your ToS and your exposure to potential litigation. It doesn't matter if you get sued if there are no damages. If you lose business (i.e. members) just to reduce your exposure to litigation which is a) unlikely to happen and b) unlikely to be expensive if it does happen, that seems like a poor business decision.

I'm all for creating work for the lawyers (I'm going to be one after all), but creating work for the lawyers for the sake of creating work for the lawyers is no way to run a hobby site. Then again, you make the big bucks, not me.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Indy
Posts: 4934
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:23 am

I tell you if this doesn't get answered I will take it as a yes.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:38 am



Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 18):
Your License to Airliners.net.
Subject to your right to terminate your license to us as described in Section 5(C), you hereby grant Airliners.net an irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, transmit, distribute, publicly perform and display (including in each case by means of a digital audio and video transmission), advertise in, on, and around, and create derivative works of the Content you submit or make available for inclusion on or through the Service, and to incorporate such Content into other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, for purposes such as (but not limited to) promoting the Site or promoting the availability of such Content on the Site.
You also hereby waive any moral rights you may have under the laws of any jurisdiction in Content you submit or make available on or through the Service. While it is our general policy to include your name alongside your Content, we are not obligated to do so.

I just read this clause to a 3rd party with no involvement in this site, his immediate comment was "sounds like they want everyone to remove their photos"

That was certainly my thinking, will comment further after more study and I can't read the PP at the moment as it goes to a 404 error broken link.

Note to Monique, I and I am sure others agree, feel that it would be more appropriate that your responses were under a heading of DM management or similar rather than "Moderators"

Regards

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
lgbga
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:10 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:55 am



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 11):
All registered users will be sent an email, the email is posted below as well:

I didn't get an email.

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 37):
That was certainly my thinking, will comment further after more study and I can't read the PP at the moment as it goes to a 404 error broken link.

Try this link.
https://www.airliners.net/privacy/
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:02 am



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 33):
Quoting Chachu201 (Reply 21):
We'll still be here to give anyone a helping hand

Unless you get fired.

Bingo . . . then you're just a bastard child like the rest of us . . .

I agree 100% with the new rules . . . terms of use, not so sure . . . over-protective for DM . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:05 am



Quoting Lgbga (Reply 38):
Try this link.
https://www.airliners.net/privacy/

Thanks, I had found that via the "About" link at the top of the page, a small error in the email(you didn't get!) directed readers to www.airliners.net/policy

Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 20207
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:24 am



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 37):
Subject to your right to terminate your license to us as described in Section 5(C), you hereby grant Airliners.net an irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, transmit, distribute, publicly perform and display (including in each case by means of a digital audio and video transmission), advertise in, on, and around, and create derivative works of the Content you submit or make available for inclusion on or through the Service, and to incorporate such Content into other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, for purposes such as (but not limited to) promoting the Site or promoting the availability of such Content on the Site.
You also hereby waive any moral rights you may have under the laws of any jurisdiction in Content you submit or make available on or through the Service. While it is our general policy to include your name alongside your Content, we are not obligated to do so.

Whoa! Agreed that this is nasty and will keep the pro photographers from posting.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
flynavy
Posts: 2179
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:48 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:27 am



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 41):
Whoa! Agreed that this is nasty and will keep the pro photographers from posting.

So far, any clarification on the quoted article above has gone unanswered. The clock is ticking indeed.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:58 am



Quoting Diamond (Reply 43):

It's 11:50pm on a Friday night in southern California. I would encourage you to be paitent as there is probably no one home at DM right now.

Not to nitpick, but 10:50 over there. I do agree with you though 100% in that there wouldn't be any of the corporate lawyers working late nights on a Friday for no good reason. It was also so noted that we wouldn't get answers till Monday quite some time ago....

Quoting Moderators (Reply 23):

Continue to ask questions and I will absolutely get back to them all, these are the three that I will respond to on Monday.

Chill guys, it's the weekend, answers on Monday still leave us with nearly 4 weeks to decide whether we want to delete our accounts or for you photogs to delete your pics off the DB. Because while the forum rules may be starting on Feb 8th, if they're giving you 30 days to accept a policy they surely can't start screwing with your photos immediately if that is their intent. That would be pretty much a breach of their own policy... and for as legally CYA as this stuff all sounds to protect them from any imagination of litigation... I doubt they want to start litigation within the next 4 weeks if they tamper with someone's personal photography intellectual property.
 
bjcc
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:29 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:55 am

I really do think that people should sit and think before over reacting at this stage.

Have a look at a few other forums rule, terms and conditions, they probably arn't that much different. Also while the new terms and conditions may give DM the right to do things, it does not mean that they WILL.

Lawyers are employed by a company, in this case DM to protect that company's position and or investments, and therefore any terms will be made with that, not others peoples interests in mind, while it may be a shock to read what they have drafted, it isn't a declaration of intent.

Those in the UK for example, should read the terms and conditions of entry to, say an airshow, or a football ground, those are as bad, or possibly worse on the face of it, but again, they are there to protect the company running the event, not to attack, nor disadvantage you for attending.

IF and I am not saying they will, DM abuse the new Terms, then yes, we have the right to withdraw from the site, but think about it, why should they cut thier own thoats by doing so?

In short, it wont make a great deal, if any difference to any of us.
 
747438
Posts: 658
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:45 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:26 am



Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 31):


Quoting Fly747 (Reply 28):




Quoting Flynavy (Reply 29):


So I guess I wasn't the only one who found that portion to be of some concern.



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 37):
I just read this clause to a 3rd party with no involvement in this site, his immediate comment was "sounds like they want everyone to remove their photos"

This is my main concern.
Does DM intend to use our photos for purposes they deem approriate without our permission?
I'm not too worried about the forum rules, as when my first class membership expires I do not intend to renew due to the way DM has handled things so far. But, I would still upload photos as I believe thise site offers the greatest exposure for aviation photographers on the net.
However, if this is their intention, then things will be different.
 
User avatar
Kukkudrill
Posts: 1044
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:11 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:50 am

This is interesting too. By uploading photos you warrant that:

-- you are the individual pictured, depicted, and/or heard in your Content or you have obtained permission from each person (including consent from parents or guardians for anyone under the age of eighteen (18)) who appears and/or is heard in your Content to grant the rights to Airliners.net described in these Terms; and

-- your Content is not defamatory, does not infringe the intellectual property rights, privacy, rights to publicity or any other legal or moral rights of any third party.

As I understand it this basically means no more photos with pilots' faces visible unless you have their express permission to upload the photo. Which seems to run counter to the recent relaxation of motive rules.

Charles
Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
 
Kay
Posts: 1797
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 3:41 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:18 am

I have just read the privacy rules and I can just say one thing, this site's just aiming for amassing more market share and more money, that's the new direction and I can't think that this can last simply because I still haven't seen one thing from the new owners: passion. No passion to run this business.

But in one word, I'm glad I changed my email address in my profile and placed one that I usually use for spam websites. The focus in the rules (the part with PII, PPPP, Services, and what not, talk about being more clear, which lawyer wrote this??) is that they will use your email in their other websites.

So all this to say: great that the email address you have of me is a useless one, DM! You can bombard it all you wish with your "Services".

Kay

PS: If you read this you're lucky! It will disappear in 5 seconds!
 
cHabu
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:58 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:29 am

.

Hiya,

The only thing i want to know is if the new owners have a legal right to use my uploaded photos without my permission.

If so, i'll delete my pics from this website.

Also if these new TOU are also valid for uploads to Myaviation.net .

English is not my native language, so perhaps i misunderstood the new TOU / TOS or whatever you call them.

Chris.
Someday i'll fly away......
 
p51
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 4:25 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:08 pm

It's too visible that they want to have a legal right to use mine and others' photos without further permission. If I'm wrong - please open my eyes! I really don't want to delete my photos from airliners.net....

Josef
 
viv
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 5:17 pm

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:21 pm



Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 18):
you hereby grant Airliners.net an irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, transmit, distribute, publicly perform and display (including in each case by means of a digital audio and video transmission), advertise in, on, and around, and create derivative works of the Content you submit or make available for inclusion on or through the Service, and to incorporate such Content into other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, for purposes such as (but not limited to) promoting the Site or promoting the availability of such Content on the Site.
You also hereby waive any moral rights you may have under the laws of any jurisdiction in Content you submit or make available on or through the Service. While it is our general policy to include your name alongside your Content, we are not obligated to do so.

Personally, I find this far too sweeping and therefore unacceptable.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
iRISH251
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:56 am

RE: New Terms Of Use And Privacy Policy

Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:23 pm



Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 18):
Your License to Airliners.net.
Subject to your right to terminate your license to us as described in Section 5(C), you hereby grant Airliners.net an irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, transmit, distribute, publicly perform and display (including in each case by means of a digital audio and video transmission), advertise in, on, and around, and create derivative works of the Content you submit or make available for inclusion on or through the Service, and to incorporate such Content into other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, for purposes such as (but not limited to) promoting the Site or promoting the availability of such Content on the Site.
You also hereby waive any moral rights you may have under the laws of any jurisdiction in Content you submit or make available on or through the Service. While it is our general policy to include your name alongside your Content, we are not obligated to do so.



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 29):
Quoting Fly747 (Reply 28):
I'm particularly interested in a clarification of this point as well. Wonder how many people will still be around after March 8th...

Clarification is certainly needed.

The continued presence of my photos on this site depends on it.

If implemented, I imagine this will lead to photographers who consider their work to be value to remove it from the site. I have over 1,000 photos here and, while I don't post them for commercial gain, I seriously object to DM proposing to take to themselves the right to use them as described.

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