Cubsrule
Topic Author
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Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:08 pm

I've been thinking about the complaints about customer service around here, and I have a suggestion that would at least pacify a lot of people. Would it be possible for 'staff' (I'm using the term loosely, in a perfect world it would be DM people but maybe that's not feasible) to respond to every report of a bug in Site Related? It doesn't have to be anything complicated, but an acknowledgment that someone in power is aware of the situation might be a little something to make people happier. As it stands now, those who report bugs have no idea if DM is aware of the problem, let alone if they are fixing it.

[Edited 2008-04-16 14:09:15]
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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JBo
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:23 pm

I agree that it would be nice if someone on-staff would acknowledge a bug report when posted.

Perhaps with new customer service volunteers being recruited, maybe we'll see some of that come to fruition.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
wilco737
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:24 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Thread starter):

Hello Cubsrule,

I am not DM staff or anything, I am just a chat mod but let me say something to this topic:

DM reads the site related Forum for sure! And we a.net Crew staff read here as well. And those reported bugs are known by DM and they try to fix them ASAP.
It would cost quite some time to reply to every thread in here! And I guess you'll agree if this time could better be used to fix the problem if there is one  Wink

Just keep posting if you see a bug and I guarantee you that someone from DM will be informed or will read it on his own and it will be taken care of...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:49 pm

Demand Media's bosses seem to want everything done by email. Well, sometimes group discussion is needed and this is where it's going to happen. The problem is, Demand Media's bosses seem to have some sort of "rule" not to address any problems that are mentioned here. The exception is Chris Willett, who I actually admire because he DOES come here to read and address site problems. But administrative problems are blown off. Pretending the problems don't exist won't make them go away, folks.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
NIKV69
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:12 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Thread starter):
pacify a lot of people

Hmmmmm

Quoting Cubsrule (Thread starter):
but an acknowledgment that someone in power is aware of the situation might be a little something to make people happier

What will this accomplish? It just opens the door wider for people to start to demand for it to be fixed ASAP etc. You see the people that endlessly troll and bitch are never satisfied. If staff started replying to everything then it will be why isn't it fixed right away, why is this happening etc etc etc.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
Demand Media's bosses seem to want everything done by email

As well it should be.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
Well, sometimes group discussion is needed and this is where it's going to happen.

And why is this? Last I checked this is not a democracy.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
Demand Media's bosses seem to have some sort of "rule" not to address any problems that are mentioned here.

How do you know this? Just because DM isn't sitting in front of the computer ready to instantly pacify the users here who have nothing better to do than be the site police doesn't mean they aren't addressing the bugs that pop up.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:29 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):

What will this accomplish? It just opens the door wider for people to start to demand for it to be fixed ASAP etc. You see the people that endlessly troll and bitch are never satisfied. If staff started replying to everything then it will be why isn't it fixed right away, why is this happening etc etc etc.

I disagree with you here. If the reply was something along the lines of "we're aware of the problem but have higher priorities; look for a fix in X weeks (or X months)," I don't see how that would empower anyone to complain further. Of course, with some bugs, where the fix would take minutes, that's less credible, but it's certainly an acceptable response to some issues.

I would look at what the database editors do with the threads over here in their realm as a possible model; they certainly do not always promise immediate gratification, but they are always attentive, and the level of discourse seems a lot higher in the threads concerning 'their issues.'

See, e.g., https://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/site_related/read.main/73813/
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
flyheligirl
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:32 pm

Hi all,

Please assume that every bug reported in SR is one our agenda. We have weekly updates for that exact reason... to update the community on the whole but any bug that is a recent or new thing, you can absolutely guarantee we are working on it, usually before it's even posted.

Monique


And yes, the comment below is about as accurate as it comes. Thanks for the logical response.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
Quoting Cubsrule (Thread starter):
but an acknowledgment that someone in power is aware of the situation might be a little something to make people happier

What will this accomplish? It just opens the door wider for people to start to demand for it to be fixed ASAP etc. You see the people that endlessly troll and bitch are never satisfied. If staff started replying to everything then it will be why isn't it fixed right away, why is this happening etc etc etc.

 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:43 pm

So, Monique, just to clarify, we shouldn't expect to know what's going on with reported bugs beyond what comes out in the weekly update?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:19 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
So, Monique, just to clarify, we shouldn't expect to know what's going on with reported bugs beyond what comes out in the weekly update?

If the bug is no longer there, assume it has been fixed. If it is still there, you can safely assume someone is working on it.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:54 am



Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 8):
If the bug is no longer there, assume it has been fixed. If it is still there, you can safely assume someone is working on it.

Um, no you can't.

I suggest the weekly update include a list of the bugs that have been reported by the members and the status. Not solely the new and improved photo, front page, blah, blah that DM is thrusting on the membership.

Whether said status is: No Action to Date, at least post it. A simple spread sheet ought not be that complicated.

Of course, there are a lot of bugs that are not the fault of DM, A-Net or anything else except the end user. In that light, they should be excluded from the list.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
flyheligirl
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:07 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
Um, no you can't.

um, yes you can.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 8):
If the bug is no longer there, assume it has been fixed. If it is still there, you can safely assume someone is working on it.

The weekly report will include projects and bug fixes as it always has.

Thanks,

Monique
 
jetmatt777
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:32 am



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 10):
The weekly report will include projects and bug fixes as it always has.

 redflag 

I never see any bug reports in those Update Threads, just:

Pictopia

New Frontpage (why fix something that isn't broken anyway?)

and one other thing in which I can't recall. The bug list is probably around 25-30 items. I'm sure a lot of members will agree, spending all that time building a new homepage, which again, probably isn't needed, could be spent building a chat system. And don't tell me that we have a working chat system, it is a piece of crap. *For me there is sometimes a 3 minute delay from pushing "Enter" and the message appearing,, that's not a chat, I might as well PM someone 300 times to chat someone, much more reliable and is sometimes faster.

*This is most of the time, and it may be because of my dialup, but other chat systems work just fine. And another member reported the same delay on high speed broadband.

Please, give us the features we want, not some "Search Engine recognition" stuff, I hate seeing the word Aviation and Airplane all over the page, just so a google-bot will pick it up. I and all the other members know we are at an airplane website and exactly what airplane we are looking at, no need to remind us 500 times.

-Matt
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
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JBo
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:31 am



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 10):
um, yes you can.

Not very becoming of a Public Relations person to reply with such flippance to a well-respected member of the community. Do I sense a bit of bitterness?

Like him or not, Pep has a point. Keep in mind there's a certain standard already set by the guy you bought this website from, as explained in another thread in this very forum:

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 33):
Not only were there not as many complaints, but when there were, Johan bent over backwards to please us. He really showed his passion for the site and appreciation for its users.



Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 35):
If there is a reported bug, he would immediately make a post showing he is now aware of the situation, and is curently diagnosing the problem, and will inform us when a solution is completed, and implemented.

How is it that, when this entire website was managed by just one person, the communication and customer service was excellent ...

... and when this site is now managed by a team of developers and individuals ... the communication is minimal at best because there's "no time"? (the exception is Chris, he's been great at explaining technical issues).

I back the idea of acknowledging bugs as they happen. It takes, what, all of 30 seconds to acknowledge? If that?
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
andz
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:34 am



Quoting JBo (Reply 12):
Not very becoming of a Public Relations person to reply with such flippance to a well-respected member of the community.

Nothing wrong with the response at all.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
ACDC8
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:07 am



Quoting JBo (Reply 12):
How is it that, when this entire website was managed by just one person, the communication and customer service was excellent ...

... and when this site is now managed by a team of developers and individuals ... the communication is minimal at best because there's "no time"?

I think you've answered your own question. When Johan had this site, it was his site, he worked hard to bring it to what it is. But for the new "owners" and "crew", its just another 9-5 job like any other.

My .02 cents. If there is a thread started about a problem, its the requirement for customer support to respond to it, no matter how trivial it may be. After all, customer support is just that ....
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
halls120
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:04 pm



Quoting JBo (Reply 12):
Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 10):
um, yes you can.

Not very becoming of a Public Relations person to reply with such flippance to a well-respected member of the community. Do I sense a bit of bitterness?

 rotfl  Given their history, do you think?

Seriously, there is another thread on SR asking why no one has responded to a month old notice of a problem with the site. Maybe someone is working on the problem, but how much effort does it take to acknowledge the report of an outage?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:15 am



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 10):
um, yes you can.

Um, no you can't.

I'm serious here, not trying to stir things up. It's just human nature that things fall through cracks and the best way to mitigate this is with a system that includes checks at every level. The first step is to enter and classify the problem while providing the person or entity reporting it with a means of tracking its progress towards resolution.

While I don't think you owe somebody reporting a bug a detailed blow by blow of how the problem is planned to be resolved, progress, etc. it does seem pretty basic to either reply in the thread to state that this problem is known and being worked (assuming that it has been properly entered in some version of a trouble ticket) or to periodically list the new items being worked.

Without this feedback, people will naturally believe that their report has been either forgotten, missed, or simply blown off when they see no resolution after a few weeks when, in fact, it is probably just a case of other problems having higher priority - although, as I noted above, it is human nature that things do get missed and occasionally the person asking again, weeks later, will be correct.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
deeplight
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:55 pm

DM and the Crew are on Site Related 24-7 and if there is a bug we are on it by the time the the next time zone ot two notices it. Yes some of the smaller bugs get put in the back of the line but we are very aggressive about fixing anything that doesn't work.
 
ORFflyer
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:01 pm



Quoting Deeplight (Reply 17):
Yes some of the smaller bugs get put in the back of the line but we are very aggressive about fixing anything that doesn't work.

I'm not sure anyone in this thread disputed that - it's the communication of that work that is the issue.

Your post should be SDed for off-topic....  Wink
 
wilco737
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:16 pm



Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 18):
it's the communication of that work that is the issue.

Isn't that proof enough what deeplight just wrote? He said that DM and the crew read in the Site Related Forum and that the bugs will be written down and taken care of! But as he said as well: some have a higher priority than others...

So, it may take a while until it is fixed!

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 18):
Your post should be SDed for off-topic.... Wink

 sarcastic 

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
ORFflyer
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:34 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 19):
So, it may take a while until it is fixed!

No problem - just tell us that.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 19):
He said that DM and the crew read in the Site Related Forum and that the bugs will be written down and taken care of!

So tell us that in the threads. We shouldn't have to assume.

You should maybe stick to chat. It never goes down......  stirthepot 
 
wilco737
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:37 pm



Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 20):
No problem - just tell us that.

You'll find out on your own if it is fixed or not?  duck 
I am usually in the chat and not in the position to post anything about bugs fixed or not because I don't know about it!! Same like you guys!

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 20):
So tell us that in the threads. We shouldn't have to assume.

Deeplight just said that they are reading in the threads! So now you know that they know about every bug and will take care about it!

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 20):
You should maybe stick to chat. It never goes down...... stirthepot

So, you don't want me here in the forum? Big grin

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
ORFflyer
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:44 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 21):
You'll find out on your own if it is fixed or not?



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 21):
Deeplight just said that they are reading in the threads! So now you know that they know about every bug and will take care about it!

But this thread is about a staff response to bug reports. Not that we should assume they are being worked on..... making Deeplight's, and your post off-topic.....

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 21):
So, you don't want me here in the forum? 

Nah - you should stay. There's always room for another bad opinion.  biggrin 
 
wilco737
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:51 pm



Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 22):

But this thread is about a staff response to bug reports. Not that we should assume they are being worked on..... making Deeplight's, and your post off-topic.....

Yes, and that's why the staff is reading in this forum to get the info about a bug! And as deeplight said: it will be taken care off... Just without posting it in here...

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 22):
Nah - you should stay. There's always room for another bad opinion. biggrin

oh, that's so kind of you  box 

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:16 pm

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 10):
The weekly report will include projects and bug fixes as it always has.

In at least one case, the project (search engine optimization) has caused bugs which would be fixed very easily, and yet all we see on the weekly update is "search engine optimization complete." When something was caused by DM, would take less than 5 minutes to fix, and yet does not get fixed, I think it's fair to presume that DM either is unaware or does not care.

Edited to add: At this point, there's only one bug that I'm aware of (the post expansion problem) which predates DM's ownership of this site, so nearly every bug is caused by something DM does.

[Edited 2008-04-21 11:20:49]
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ACDC8
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:33 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 19):
Isn't that proof enough what deeplight just wrote? He said that DM and the crew read in the Site Related Forum and that the bugs will be written down and taken care of! But as he said as well: some have a higher priority than others...

So, it may take a while until it is fixed!

Saying that DM and crew and are on the site-related 24/7 reading it, doesn't prove to anything to me. I'm not questioning if they are trying to fix any bugs or not, however it can not be that difficult to respond with a quick "thanks for the report, we're looking into it" as a confirmation. Honestly, is it really that difficult?

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 21):
Deeplight just said that they are reading in the threads! So now you know that they know about every bug and will take care about it!

I'm reading Leo Tolstoy as I type this? Do you believe me?

I don't know anything until my query has been responded to.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 23):
Yes, and that's why the staff is reading in this forum to get the info about a bug! And as deeplight said: it will be taken care off... Just without posting it in here...

Why not post? What is there to be scared of? Post a quick reply in the post, its really not that hard.

Quoting Deeplight (Reply 17):
DM and the Crew are on Site Related 24-7 and if there is a bug we are on it by the time the the next time zone ot two notices it. Yes some of the smaller bugs get put in the back of the line but we are very aggressive about fixing anything that doesn't work.

I'll ask you the same question. What is the big deal on posting a simple response?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
ORFflyer
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:38 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):

Nice post.... polite, to the point, & inquisitive.

Deserves a response if you ask me.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 23):
oh, that's so kind of you  

Why thank you.
 
wilco737
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:55 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):
I'm reading Leo Tolstoy as I type this? Do you believe me?

Why shouldn't I believe you? Although it is hard to believe that you read Tolstoy  duck 

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):
Saying that DM and crew and are on the site-related 24/7 reading it, doesn't prove to anything to me. I'm not questioning if they are trying to fix any bugs or not, however it can not be that difficult to respond with a quick "thanks for the report, we're looking into it" as a confirmation. Honestly, is it really that difficult?

no it is not that difficult, but I guess it wasn't and isn't part of their job description to post here! If they do it then maybe because they are polite...  Wink

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):
Why not post? What is there to be scared of? Post a quick reply in the post, its really not that hard.

Nothing to be scared of! No matter what DM staff is posting in here: complains will remain and people still will be unhappy and unsatisfied...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
futurecaptain
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:06 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 27):
No matter what DM staff is posting in here: complains will remain and people still will be unhappy and unsatisfied...

Yes, unsatisfied and unhappy because when the users of the site try to suggest something we get responses like these...

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 10):



Quoting Deeplight (Reply 17):

The users have asked for a response to bug topics. Something which would take less than 30 seconds to do. A simple "Thanks, we are looking into it. Will post when it is fixed" will do as long as you follow up when the fix is complete. Perhaps listening to what the users of the site want would go a long way to helping the "unhappy and unsatisfied" feelings you speak of.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
The exception is Chris Willett, who I actually admire because he DOES come here to read and address site problems.

 checkmark 

Quoting JBo (Reply 12):
How is it that, when this entire website was managed by just one person, the communication and customer service was excellent ...

... and when this site is now managed by a team of developers and individuals ... the communication is minimal at best because there's "no time"?

 checkmark 
AirSO. ASpaceO. ASOnline. ASO.com ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:06 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 27):
Although it is hard to believe that you read Tolstoy

... and this coming from someone who chose the B737 over the A320 ....  Wink  duck 

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 27):
but I guess it wasn't and isn't part of their job description to post here! If they do it then maybe because they are polite...

But, isn't Customer Support and Customer Service exactly that? Would you get your Benz fixed at a shop where you just dropped it off with a list and hoped for the best that they fix your car? I wouldn't.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 27):
No matter what DM staff is posting in here: complains will remain and people still will be unhappy and unsatisfied...

I agree, you'll never be able to satisfy everyone, it's impossible. But taking criticism and complaints is also part of owning a business. And how you deal with those is the key to a successful business or an unsuccessful business. Running away and hiding from your customers is not the answer and it just creates more problems.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:15 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 29):
... and this coming from someone who chose the B737 over the A320 .... Wink duck

It it ain't Boeing, I am not going Big grin

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 29):
But, isn't Customer Support and Customer Service exactly that? Would you get your Benz fixed at a shop where you just dropped it off with a list and hoped for the best that they fix your car? I wouldn't.

You don't really compare a Mercedes Benz shop with this website? Oh and: usually IF something SHOULD be wrong with my Mercedes Benz, then I'll tell them what is wrong and then I come back a day later and then I hope everything is fixed. Then I check the bill and if there is written on it: fixed! Then I trust them! Or should I check it? well, I just cannot! I am no pro! So I have to trust them! And I bet we have to do that here as well...

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 29):
I agree, you'll never be able to satisfy everyone, it's impossible. But taking criticism and complaints is also part of owning a business.

I agree here as well! But we have so many people just saying: "everything sucks, everything BS, A.net went down, where will A.net end, etc etc" and that's NOT constructive criticism! And then the posts will be deleted... And if there is constructive criticism then the post haven't been removed...

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 29):
And how you deal with those is the key to a successful business or an unsuccessful business. Running away and hiding from your customers is not the answer and it just creates more problems.

Let's hope A.net will be successful! And I am sure that they will! Because 77000+ members cannot be wrong, right?

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
ACDC8
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:33 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 30):
It it ain't Boeing, I am not going

You poor, poor soul ...  Wink

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 30):
You don't really compare a Mercedes Benz shop with this website? Oh and: usually IF something SHOULD be wrong with my Mercedes Benz, then I'll tell them what is wrong and then I come back a day later and then I hope everything is fixed. Then I check the bill and if there is written on it: fixed! Then I trust them! Or should I check it? well, I just cannot! I am no pro! So I have to trust them! And I bet we have to do that here as well...

Sure you can compare it. Its all about customer service and support. When you drop your car off and you tell them whats wrong. Do they just stand there and ignore you? And if they did, would you just leave the keys there and go away?
No, they talk to you. The communicate with you. And thats the whole point I think some of us are trying make.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 30):
I agree here as well! But we have so many people just saying: "everything sucks, everything BS, A.net went down, where will A.net end, etc etc" and that's NOT constructive criticism! And then the posts will be deleted... And if there is constructive criticism then the post haven't been removed...

Of course you'll always get that crowd. Just like you get people who hate LH and love DL or the other way around and there is nothing LH or DL or anyone else can do to change that.

In terms of "constructive criticism" , who defines criticism as constructive or not? The track history for DM has been if they don't like it, delete it. If a member opposes, ban them. If you want to be in business, one better learn to take all sorts of criticism and deal with it, other wise you'll fail miserably.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7854
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RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:37 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 30):
Let's hope A.net will be successful! And I am sure that they will! Because 77000+ members cannot be wrong, right?

I hope that they will be successful, I love this site. Couldn't imagine my daily routine without it. And thats why issues like this really concern me. I've been on this site for 3 years now and know that we've always had issues and problems. There has always been that crowd that complain and bitch about every little thing. But, when Johan had this site, the crew let us know what was going on with our concerns and now, that has completely disappeared.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:39 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
Do they just stand there and ignore you? And if they did, would you just leave the keys there and go away?
No, they talk to you. The communicate with you. And thats the whole point I think some of us are trying make.

Who said they ignore you? They never said that! They listen to what the problem is and that's it... MAYBE not the perfect way...

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
Of course you'll always get that crowd. Just like you get people who hate LH and love DL or the other way around and there is nothing LH or DL or anyone else can do to change that.

Well, LH: there is no better way to fly! no doubt about that  duck 

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
who defines criticism as constructive or not?

"this is BS, I hate it, it sucks!" <-------- This is NOT constructive criticism!  Wink If there are any suggestions made how to improve or make something better, then I consider this as constructive criticism...


Ah well, I think we both have a different opinion about that. I just ask you to be a little patient and maybe more supportive?

Thanks

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:39 pm



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 15):
but how much effort does it take to acknowledge the report of an outage?

Some time back, many members suggested that DM create a "Bugs Page" of some sort that would, at a minimum, list all the bugs known to DM staffers. I think suggestions were also made that would list the bugs according to their priority, status (delayed, in progress, fixed, etc).

If I remember the reasons correctly, that idea went over like a lead balloon because it would take time away from actual work on the bugs, cause misinterpretations when a bug or several bugs low on the list were fixed ahead of those higher up, and so on. I think (but I'm not really sure) that the idea for the weekly updates came from those discussions.

While the weekly updates are nice, the bugs page idea was much better. Might have even prevented this thread too...
I lift things up and put them down.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:54 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 33):
Who said they ignore you? They never said that! They listen to what the problem is and that's it... MAYBE not the perfect way...

But, they're not communicating with me. That's the whole issue ... communication. The very thing that customer service and support in any business is required to do ... that's their job!

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 33):
Well, LH: there is no better way to fly! no doubt about that

Holy Moly! We agree on something .... lol! However, I do prefer their A32X over their B737s Big grin

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 33):
"this is BS, I hate it, it sucks!" <-------- This is NOT constructive criticism! If there are any suggestions made how to improve or make something better, then I consider this as constructive criticism...

It can be constructive. Take for example that whole photo widget thing in our profile. At no time was the community told about this until they implemented it. Personally, I took a very strong objection to this because I feel that my profile is my own little personal space on this website and I didn't like the new feature. We were told that we would eventually have the option to delete the widget, but not right away. There were a lot of posts in that thread that went missing because DM or whom ever felt the feelings or criticism was not constructive. Yet, in the long run the "opt out" feature was put in place fairly quickly, and I'm hoping that DM has learned to put an idea before us before forcing it upon us. And it could be those very posts that went missing started to get DM to think.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 33):
Ah well, I think we both have a different opinion about that. I just ask you to be a little patient and maybe more supportive?

I am patient, but I can't be supportive of something that I feel is missing the point and not doing their job.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:18 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 35):
Holy Moly! We agree on something .... lol! However, I do prefer their A32X over their B737s Big grin

Nobody is perfect Big grin

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 35):
It can be constructive. Take for example that whole photo widget thing in our profile. At no time was the community told about this until they implemented it. Personally, I took a very strong objection to this because I feel that my profile is my own little personal space on this website and I didn't like the new feature. We were told that we would eventually have the option to delete the widget, but not right away. There were a lot of posts in that thread that went missing because DM or whom ever felt the feelings or criticism was not constructive. Yet, in the long run the "opt out" feature was put in place fairly quickly, and I'm hoping that DM has learned to put an idea before us before forcing it upon us. And it could be those very posts that went missing started to get DM to think.

Just saying that it sucks is far from constructive criticism! A few posts later some people asked it to be removed or at least let themself decide if or if not! Like you asked for it! Then DM waited for more opinions about it and then you had the option to let it be shown or not in your profile! So basically exactly what you asked for, right? And afaik it only took a day until it was available in your profile to make it visible or not...

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 35):
I am patient, but I can't be supportive of something that I feel is missing the point and not doing their job.

Ok, if you can't be supportive, then I just hope that you dont try to people keep away from a.net because you had some trouble with them...
As you said: you like A.net (another thing where we agree Big grin) and I hope you'll stick aroud here and can still enjoy it as much as possible!
Thank you!

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:30 pm

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 36):
Nobody is perfect

But we still like you anyways ... 

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 36):
Just saying that it sucks is far from constructive criticism! A few posts later some people asked it to be removed or at least let themself decide if or if not! Like you asked for it! Then DM waited for more opinions about it and then you had the option to let it be shown or not in your profile! So basically exactly what you asked for, right? And afaik it only took a day until it was available in your profile to make it visible or not...

Exactly. So, if we didn't post our dissatisfaction with the widget (no matter how harsh it may have seemed to some) we'd most likely still be waiting for the option to delete it from our profile.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 36):
Ok, if you can't be supportive, then I just hope that you dont try to people keep away from a.net because you had some trouble with them...

That depends on DM, not me. If I'm not satisfied with something I won't lie about it to others.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 36):
and I hope you'll stick aroud here and can still enjoy it as much as possible!

Also dependent on DM. If they fail to see how important this community is to some, it may very well be time to move on. However, DM definitely deserves a chance, and they have (and continue) to make mistakes but its if they decide to learn from them that will be the deciding factor for me personally.

[Edited 2008-04-21 13:31:29]
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:35 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 37):
But we still like you anyways ...

 rotfl  good Big grin

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 37):
Exactly. So, if we didn't post our dissatisfaction with the widget (no matter how harsh it may have seemed to some) we'd most likely still be waiting for the option to delete it from our profile.

It was good that you all posted how you liked it! but just saying: It's BS! that's not the best way, IMO!

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 37):
DM definitely deserves a chance,

That sounds promising! Thank you for that!  thumbsup  and I mean it!

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
Posts: 14278
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:52 pm



Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 34):
While the weekly updates are nice, the bugs page idea was much better. Might have even prevented this thread too...

Indeed. Saying "we read site related" and not fixing easy bugs (and I'm not talking about bugs that have been around forever and may not be easily fixable) seem incompatible with one another, but maybe I'm missing something. How about a bug report feature similar to the suggest deletion feature? It wouldn't lead to a response (though it could be coded so that it would), but it might be better than the haphazard responses in site related.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:03 pm

I'd like to see some comments from cwillet here.
This space intentionally left blank
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:08 am



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 27):
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):
Why not post? What is there to be scared of? Post a quick reply in the post, its really not that hard.

Nothing to be scared of! No matter what DM staff is posting in here: complains will remain and people still will be unhappy and unsatisfied..

I disagree. When Cwillett posted a short but informative explanation of how another glitch was being taken care of, many positive accolades were posted in response.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 36):
Just saying that it sucks is far from constructive criticism!

I agree that saying "it sucks" is not constructive. But during the discussion on the proposed new home page, many people - myself included - expressed a preference for remaining with the current format, only to be criticized for not being "constructive."
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Should Site Related Require A Staff Response?

Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:21 am



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 41):
Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 27):
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):
Why not post? What is there to be scared of? Post a quick reply in the post, its really not that hard.

Nothing to be scared of! No matter what DM staff is posting in here: complains will remain and people still will be unhappy and unsatisfied..

I disagree. When Cwillett posted a short but informative explanation of how another glitch was being taken care of, many positive accolades were posted in response.

Concur.

Clear, concise, accurate, and no fluff, flutter, nor double spoken promises.
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