APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 1:16 pm

Guys, instead of voting in favor or against the new home page why not pick 1 thing you don't like about it and write a detailed reason why. The new site is here to stay like it or not so instead of taking an adversarial position with DM try to work on compromise.

Edit: My 1 major issue would be the difference in color between the forums and the borders with the new blue the contrast is too much and almost hurts the eyes.

[Edited 2008-05-29 06:33:18]
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
radarbeam
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:00 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 1:31 pm

I've just re-read this thread and the one that was started back in April. The one thing that pops out in all of this is that it seems DM suffer from selective hearing. The trend was pretty obvious that the new homepage was not liked in the first thread yet other than the obligatory thank you post at the end no intervention of DM staff what-so-ever, eventually the thread was locked with the issue left unresolved.

Now we have this thread. The users have spoken and once again it's a resounding NO!. Yet DM nonchalantly post, in a sea of negative feedback, that the launch is not going as planned, and once again it seems DM suffers from selective hearing, all of the negative comments are swept under the carpet and intentionally forgotten. Once again the issue is left unresolved.

DM will be wise to remember that a.net is not a monopoly out there and ultimately users will express themselves with the click of their mouses. Some of the most successful community websites on the web rely heavily on user feedback.

What are you going to do DM? Are you going to sit this one out as well or are you going to show how much you value us and actually start listening?
 
JRadier
Posts: 3952
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 1:34 pm



Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 100):
Guys, instead of voting in favor or against the new home page why not pick 1 thing you don't like about it and write a detailed reason why. The new site is here to stay like it or not so instead of taking an adversarial position with DM try to work on compromise.

Done and tried when the new site was first showed. However, as posts above yours indicate, nothing has changed.
 
ThomasCook757
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:01 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 2:12 pm



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 65):
Hi all,

The new homepage will not go live tonight. We are at the point where it's too late and if we continue to launch it, we are putting the site at high risk to break in the middle of the night. VC-10 posted the problem we are experiencing which is in short, beta testing was successful but the migration from beta to the live site is breaking things. Certain things cannot be tested fully until we push live since there is a lot more strain on the database when there are thousands of users at once hitting it. We are going to test all the queries that were slowing down the site today when we launched, test them more and rewrite the ones that were overloading the database and relaunch tomorrow.

Although this is a disappointment to our team since we wanted to get this up and running today, we much rather play this safe and not leave ourselves open to the site breaking in the middle of the night. I hope you understand.

Some of the things you saw, like centered forum text was a bug due to the overloaded databases. The text is not centered so please keep your comments and feedback for tomorrows launch.

Thank you,

Monique

Are you not listening?

We do not like it....

You are making mistake after mistake in running this site. Listen to us for once! Please
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 2:24 pm



Quoting Radarbeam (Reply 101):
all of the negative comments are swept under the carpet and intentionally forgotten

Or simply deleted.

Quoting Radarbeam (Reply 101):
DM will be wise to remember that a.net is not a monopoly out there and ultimately users will express themselves with the click of their mouses.

 checkmark  A lot of folks already have. I've noticed a BUNCH of the posters from the "good old days" don't post much here anymore - and other sites are picking up a lot of new traffic.

Quoting ThomasCook757 (Reply 103):
You are making mistake after mistake in running this site. Listen to us for once! Please

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13207
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 3:18 pm



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 98):
You know the new site's design is unsatisfactory when Nick Vollaro and Chris Weyer agree on something. Hail Mary! Has hell frozen over?

Don't get used to it Chris!  crazy 

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 99):
The following is meant respectfully, though it's hard to make it seem so.
DM. Do us all a favor and run this site for what it was always meant to be. A haven for aviation enthusiasts, photographers, and fanatics. Keep this site running based largely on what the users want, just as the old administration did. Your job, and your goal, should be to ensure consistent high-quality services in regards to screening and moderating, and to make sure the site runs smoothly from a technical aspect. The site depends on its users, and if they start leaving because their wishes are being neglected, then you'll lose a lot more than just a few members. The site's traffic will slowly start to fade and before you know it, another site will emerge. Maybe not on the same scale, at least not immediately, but it will happen and you will find yourselves scratching your heads. And we're here now, telling you how to avoid that. Just LISTEN to us! We gave you a LOT of constructive criticism (at least, some of us did) and thought for sure this new launch would incorporate that. I'm not saying everything you've done has been bad. There have been several improvements to the site. And I think we all felt things were turning for the best when the Terms of Use fiasco happened. We all had a problem with them and you took our advice, admitted an oversight, and fixed them to be acceptable to all parties. The homepage, for some reason, completely ignored that positive user-owner interaction the TOU has established, and I think we'd all like to see that come back.

TIS

I knew you ate too much red meat last night! Tis calm down!  biggrin 

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 100):
Guys, instead of voting in favor or against the new home page why not pick 1 thing you don't like about it and write a detailed reason why. The new site is here to stay like it or not so instead of taking an adversarial position with DM try to work on compromise.

If I remember correctly some time ago a thread like this contained the mock up of the new page and many of us gave out detailed reasons why we did not like it. Two of which was basically destroying the site logo by making it smaller and to the right of the search box and the second how the new look resembled flightlevel350 and took away from the unique look this site had which makes it what it is. We were hopeful that some of the screeners would lend insight to the new design and that it would resemble the old design which I feel is clean, professional and very user friendly and photog friendly why giving accolades to the pictures that are top of day etc.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
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Kukkudrill
Posts: 1043
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RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 4:10 pm



Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 99):
And I think we all felt things were turning for the best when the Terms of Use fiasco happened. We all had a problem with them and you took our advice, admitted an oversight, and fixed them to be acceptable to all parties.

A very generous interpretation, but never mind .....
Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
 
ANITIX87
Posts: 2998
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:52 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 4:13 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 105):
I knew you ate too much red meat last night! Tis calm down!

Quiet, you!

You're my minion remember? Do my bidding!

I'm just telling it like it is. I don't want to see this site get somewhere bad, and I think I speak for everyone when I say that. But at this rate, that's where it's going. And DM has the capability to stop it. But they don't seem to realize that, while they may not need us for money, and that if we leave, others will join, the people who have always been here make this site the haven for knowledge and photography that it is. I don't know, maybe their goal is to drive out the current population so they can attract new people and make the site whatever they want it to be. But I, for one, want a.net to go back to the wonderful way it was.

TIS
www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
 
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JBo
Posts: 1728
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RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 4:28 pm



Quoting Radarbeam (Reply 101):
I've just re-read this thread and the one that was started back in April. The one thing that pops out in all of this is that it seems DM suffer from selective hearing. The trend was pretty obvious that the new homepage was not liked in the first thread yet other than the obligatory thank you post at the end no intervention of DM staff what-so-ever, eventually the thread was locked with the issue left unresolved.

If the DM staff would at least admit that they don't give a rip about our feedback and opinions, they'd at least have that much more credibility just by being honest.

In that thread in April, I gave my opinions on the layout as a graphic designer. A few other members shared similar opinions, and even went as far as to create mockups of a revised layout that most posters agreed was a better layout than the one proposed by DM.

Why did DM not listen to those offerings? I have no idea. We are, after all, a community ... and one would think that good management listens to the community.

I can't see how hard it would have been to go back into the code and change a few color values on the stylesheet, and change the order of some of the modules.

I also like this gem quote about running a beta site:

Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 95):
she said this would be the best solution, but it would take too much time to do...

Why would it take too much time? Are you under deadlines? If so, why? This is a website. It's not going anywhere, and you're sure as heck not going to lose a million-dollar deal if the new layout isn't up on time. I think previous faux pas have proven that it's better to take the time to do something RIGHT than to hurry up and get it done and clean up the mess afterwards. If running the site beta would have been a good idea, then do it. Forget the time factor. Take all the time you need to get it done right.

Okay, off the soapbox now.

~J
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 4:58 pm



Quoting JBo (Reply 108):
Why did DM not listen to those offerings? I have no idea. We are, after all, a community ... and one would think that good management listens to the community.

 rotfl  The above post, in the game of baseball, is the equivalent of the pitcher telling the batter what kind of pitch he's going to throw at what speed, right over the middle of the plate.

You have distilled the history of Anet over the past year down to two accurate lines of text. Simply amazing.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
N1120A
Posts: 26555
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 5:18 pm



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 96):

Because they want Anet to make a clean break from the previous management, perhaps?

What for? The point is to transition seamlessly, not change what was working.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 96):

It does, but since they are a for profit company, one would have to expect that they would reorient the home page to give them the maximum ad space possible.

There is plenty of space as is.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
chachu201
Posts: 773
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RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 5:45 pm

I cannot speak for DM, but I will try and air my opinions. Personally, I like the new design as it was shown on the mock ups, but as a result of what I saw last night I do believe there is still work to be done. However, we know that there were significant issues moving the new front page live last night, and this resulted in a lot of issues that everyone, including myself, experienced.

Monique has already stated that even after the new front page goes live, this is by no means a fixed product. The front page will be very easy to adapt to what you, the community, ask for, and this will be done over the coming weeks, so that hopefully we can see the design evolving into a product that is better liked.

DM, and the crew as a whole, are much more receptive to comments if they are constructive, and threads can quickly decrease in their value as the bitching starts. If you've got anything to say, please do make them here, or alternatively email the Support crew and we'll reply to you. Personally, I'd be more than happy to discuss your opinions in detail, away from the (nearly)all-seeing eyes of the Moderators, if thats what you want!
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 5:57 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 110):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 96):

Because they want Anet to make a clean break from the previous management, perhaps?


What for? The point is to transition seamlessly, not change what was working.

Sometimes, new management prefers to eliminate all references to the past. Not saying I agree with that approach, mind you.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 110):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 96):

It does, but since they are a for profit company, one would have to expect that they would reorient the home page to give them the maximum ad space possible.

There is plenty of space as is.

Wasn't there a rumor floating around that DM may have overestimated the existing revenues and underestimated the cost of running this website?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
JRadier
Posts: 3952
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 6:11 pm



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 109):
rotfl The above post, in the game of baseball, is the equivalent of the pitcher telling the batter what kind of pitch he's going to throw at what speed, right over the middle of the plate.

The only difference is that on this website the pitcher should be trying to keep the batter happy as it pays the pitchers salary, in a game of baseball you are trying to piss off the batter as much as possible.
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6794
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 6:13 pm



Quoting JBo (Reply 108):
If the DM staff would at least admit that they don't give a rip about our feedback and opinions, they'd at least have that much more credibility just by being honest.

JBo, I don't think that is accurate. They showed mockups, listened to opinions and yet you simply cannot please every customer.

Quoting HapppyLandings (Reply 111):
Nice to know not one MOD has addressed our concerns about us just NOT LIKING the new site

How exactly would you like us to address it? The mods aren't here to register your opinion, like or dislike. We moderate the forums. As another member on this site, do you want me to hold your hand while you voice tell me about the grave inhumanity that DM has put you through?

Sorry, I can't do that, as as member or a mod. There are SO much more important things to grive over. Just pick up the newspaper.

You know, its amazing. 112 replies yet everyone is looking past the big picture:

When NW, DL, UA or any company changes its livery, service or product, they usually do so after some input from many sources. But when they change and you don't like it, do you write them about that too?

You know, I've been a member a while here. I simply can't understand why so many are:

a) resilient to change (actually, I do know why...human complacency)

b) think its owed to them to have it one way or another.

and

c) (and this goes out to all the DM haters) have completely forgotten that whenever Johan made a change, you sucked it up and had no one to blame.

It's change, so just welcome it.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
bjcc
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:29 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 6:34 pm

Mirrodie

Firstly, lets establish, I really don't care about the front page, I bypass it as a rule, so it is of no interest.

Irrespective of that, I do think that a few of your points need a response.

DM, have made a great deal of play about consultation, and community. I'm sure you believe them, but what is clear from many of the comments, is that people are getting annoyed at the pretence of consulting, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, that consultation appears to be ignored. And that, is what is boiling peoples p***.

Johan made no pretence of consultation, so everyone knew where they were, and that it was pointless complaining, DM assure us they take notice, but give every appearence of not. Read a lot of the comments above, and that's the point being made, time and time again.

A flashy new front page should not have been a priority, when so much of a.net is still broken, and questions about it are ignored. Again, if the effort was put into keeping people informed, and solving those issues, a new front page introduced later in the year may well have met with a better reception.

This site isn't an airline, it's a web site, which many people pay to use. It's also a web site where the customers are us. As you have sought to compare, I'll continue the analogy, if people don't like the way an airline is run, or how they treat thier customers, they vote with thier feet, someone else will fly the route they want to travel. The same applies here, anet isn't a monoply, and while it may have been the best once, if it hasn't lost that already, it is working hard to.

Rather than looking at the reaction above as negative, why not see it as a plea to stop the slide of something that was once a great site. The solutions are simple, DM need to start to listen.
 
viv
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 5:17 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 6:37 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 115):
It's change

Indeed it is. But is the most important and necessary change?

I don't think so. Other things should have been addressed first.

The new homepage looks like classic displacement activity; we can't solve the problems - let's do something we CAN do.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
WestWing
Posts: 1137
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:01 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 6:51 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 115):
(and this goes out to all the DM haters) have completely forgotten that whenever Johan made a change, you sucked it up and had no one to blame.

Actually, I think there was quite a bit of venting when Johan made a change that was not liked (for example when he changed the thread search function).

Anyway, since we are talking about a change to the front page, may I ask members to look at the overall tone of comments from the thread where Johan announced the design change of the front page to the current one

(Link: https://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/site_related/read.main/27853 ).

The majority of comments in that thread were positive, so we (as a community overall) liked that change.

Contrast the comments there with those in this thread. A significant number of comments in this current thread are not positive about the change. Objectively, I would say it is at least possible that the negative reactions in this thread are because the change is not liked, rather than because of "hatred" of DM or because the community is inflexible to change.

Just my two cents...
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
radarbeam
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:00 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 6:54 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 115):
JBo, I don't think that is accurate. They showed mockups, listened to opinions and yet you simply cannot please every customer.

Yes they showed us mock ups and the community reacted, most didn't like it. Did they actually listened? I don't think so. Two members submitted their own templates and many more submitted ideas, all where swiftly ignored by DM.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 115):
When NW, DL, UA or any company changes its livery, service or product, they usually do so after some input from many sources. But when they change and you don't like it, do you write them about that too?

An airline is just a mean of transportation, a website is all based around design and creativity, don't compare apples and oranges. UA could be sporting a pink tail and I could careless.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 115):
It's change, so just welcome it.

Nice way to tell the people to shut up and just swallow anything without questions.
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 6:56 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 114):
They showed mockups, listened to opinions and yet you simply cannot please every customer.

FWIW Mario the only change was where the drop down bar is located. Not that it matters because it is their site and they can choose to display it however they want.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
AF340
Posts: 2267
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:57 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 6:58 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 115):
b) think its owed to them to have it one way or another.

That is because we are paying members of this site.

Frankly, yes I do feel it is owed to me to be treated with respect and to have the site respresent the wishes of most of the users. Not Mr. Rosenblatt's pocket.



Liam spin 
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13207
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 7:01 pm



Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 107):
Quiet, you!

You're my minion remember? Do my bidding!

Your pretty bold for a guy wallking around with an Olympus hanging around your neck.  biggrin 

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 107):
I'm just telling it like it is. I don't want to see this site get somewhere bad, and I think I speak for everyone when I say that. But at this rate, that's where it's going. And DM has the capability to stop it. But they don't seem to realize that, while they may not need us for money, and that if we leave, others will join, the people who have always been here make this site the haven for knowledge and photography that it is. I don't know, maybe their goal is to drive out the current population so they can attract new people and make the site whatever they want it to be. But I, for one, want a.net to go back to the wonderful way it was.

Good points but let us not forget that the site attracts new photogs every day and in time they will also be "haven for knowledge" It's a cycle. I know a lot of you are holding on to the old guard but let us not forget they are not the only ones here.

Quoting JBo (Reply 108):
Why did DM not listen to those offerings? I have no idea. We are, after all, a community ... and one would think that good management listens to the community.

I think it's pretty clear that DM had made a decision that the homepage would change and that they were keying in on a specific design. Short of that they felt for some reason that the change was needed and that is basically the designs they showed us were going to be the basis for the change. So anything after that is moot. Just because you are a graphic designer doesn't mean they are going to value your opinion over anybody elses.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 115):
a) resilient to change (actually, I do know why...human complacency)

I think that is a little unfair Mario, you have a huge bunch of users who have been here a long time too. I don't think their opinions should be any less credible. Or likened to complacency. I think if you look at their concerns you would see genuine opinions based on many visits to the site and enjoying the home page and site logo.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 115):
You know, its amazing. 112 replies yet everyone is looking past the big picture:

When NW, DL, UA or any company changes its livery, service or product, they usually do so after some input from many sources. But when they change and you don't like it, do you write them about that too?

I'd bet DL got a few after that horror show they call a livery, getting back to your analogy I don't see how that compares to this. Users here are far more loyal.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 115):
think its owed to them to have it one way or another

Your spot on here though I don't think it applies accross the board.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 115):
It's change, so just welcome it

At the end of the day we as users really are powerless in this situation and we can discuss the "change is ineveitable" angle all night. From my standpoint I just don't understand why DM has been so focused on this change and to the degree they have went about it. Especially with the site logo but that is just my opinion. On thing I will say that has been resonating here is you do have many users that have been here, some a long time some not but the vast majority feels the same way. I think it is a little more than "human complacency"
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 7:09 pm



Quoting Viv (Reply 116):
But is the most important and necessary change?

I don't think so. Other things should have been addressed first.

Like I said before, the front page project is silly at this time. You don't paint the racing stripe on the old car until you get it running right.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
codeshare
Posts: 1689
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 2:23 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 7:19 pm

..or in other words: You have a nice packaging on the present, but when you get rid of the packaging you will not like the present in side ie. bugs.

Bugs first (or was it beatles?)

When the framework is working, then new, slow but accurate, changes can take place.

It's simple.

KS/codeshare
How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6794
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 7:21 pm

Quoting Bjcc (Reply 115):
This site isn't an airline, it's a web site, which many people pay to use. It's also a web site where the customers are us. As you have sought to compare, I'll continue the analogy, if people don't like the way an airline is run, or how they treat thier customers, they vote with thier feet, someone else will fly the route they want to travel.

And that is completely understandable. But to use the airline anology, you'll vote with your feet because they changed the look of the livery, or here, the frontpage??

Quoting Radarbeam (Reply 118):
An airline is just a mean of transportation, a website is all based around design and creativity, don't compare apples and oranges. UA could be sporting a pink tail and I could careless.

Not apples and oranges. The frontpage, in my opinion, is no different than a livery to a tail.

Quoting Radarbeam (Reply 118):
Nice way to tell the people to shut up and just swallow anything without questions.

And that is a nice way to manipulate words. I never said question nothing. Did I wrote that above? Nope. However I don't its unreasonable to see the change through.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 121):
getting back to your analogy I don't see how that compares to this. Users here are far more loyal.



I should hope so.


In the final analysis, I don't see a reason to sweat the small stuff. That's all.

[Edited 2008-05-29 12:40:14]
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
bjcc
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:29 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 7:40 pm

Mirrodie

No, not quite the point I was making. which is....

"if people don't like the way an airline is run, or how they treat thier customers, they vote with thier feet"

What led me to say that, is the reaction of DM to comments made about what we were shown, and that they were ignored, even though we are assured our opinions are listened too.

Common sense says that if you are going to make the undertaking DM did, then at the end of the consultation, say why you are going to ignore the comments made. That may have done something about the lack of support for the new front page.

If the time taken on the new front page had been used to solve some of the bugs which are plauging the site, us, the paying custmers wouldn't have been so irrate.

The analogy stands, and the front page is just an ilustration of the problem.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 7:48 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 124):
And that is a nice way to manipulate words. I never said question nothing. Did I wrote that above? Nope. However I don't its unreasonable to see the change through.

No, I think given the track record of this site in the last few months, with posts disappearing, threads being locked or deleted, members being banned because they questioning the policies of the site that they pay for, having countless threads or queries go unanswered. I think Radarbeam was spot on with his post.

Mirrode, I think you and others are missing the point why so many of us are upset about this. Its not just about changing the homepage, its also about how this (among other things) are being handled by DM. Its about how something that the majority of members doesn't want is being put ahead of the countless other problems on this site that are not only not being fixed but going unanswered. If DM were to maybe open their ears a bit more, start to show some sort of progress with fixing the bugs already on the site and to start respecting the voices of their paying customers, then maybe we wouldn't have such a big fight over changes like this.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Boston92
Posts: 2603
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 7:51 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 114):

 checkmark 

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 121):
Users here are far more loyal.

I wouldn't say that. I think the airline livery analogy is an excellent one (and not just because I brought it up 2 days ago). You people did not even have enough time to view the page before you came here and started bitching about it. And the sad part is, you all are complaining that it is too "busy" or "noisy" and other crappy adjectives like that. Have you even seen the current (old) homepage? It is a cluttered mess too. At least DM is doing SOMETHING productive with their time. The new page was a step in the correct direction, but far from perfect. It can continue to be worked with in the coming weeks (Well, we are talking about DM here, so I guess it could be months, and years too) to make it better. I still think that 95% of you are just afraid of change, even though you will deny it until your death.
 
chachu201
Posts: 773
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:22 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:03 pm



Quoting Boston92 (Reply 127):
It can continue to be worked with in the coming weeks

Exactly my point. The product you see when the front page goes live next is not going to stay as it is forever. It's merely a first go.

It. Can. Be. Changed.  Smile
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:07 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 124):
But to use the airline anology, you'll vote with your feet because they changed the look of the livery, or here, the frontpage??

By your statement it seems like one could interpret your meaning to say 'we are the only game out there, so you are stuck with us no matter what'. That's not a very good attitude to have considering there are alternatives.
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ANITIX87
Posts: 2998
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:52 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:19 pm



Quoting Chachu201 (Reply 128):
It. Can. Be. Changed.

Nobody is denying that. And many people WANT it changed.

But the concerns and questions we are discussing are all in regards to whether or not it WILL be changed if the vast majority of the community wants it to be, which is currently the case.

And based on DM's track record, I don't know that our pleading and our commentary is doing anything. Most of the commentary in this thread has been constructive, except for a few posts, and as such, it should NOT be taken offensively by the guys at DM. We all want this site to move forward and we are all suggesting ways of doing so while making the members happy with the site they are very gladly paying to use. Once payment becomes a hassle instead of a voluntary contribution, people will start to leave, or will end their memberships and simply surf the site for images, ignoring the forums.

If DM doesn't address some of the concerns the community has, their reputation will continue to decline. As I said earlier in this thread, the communication regarding the Terms of Use was very, very positive. The community requested a change, the administration admitted fault, and the issue was resolved with all sides pleased. Why can't that level of positive give and take exist in this homepage issue? The second new design is identical to the first in terms of layout except for the menu bar. That's like, to use the airline livery analogy mentioned above, if Delta got thousands of letters criticizing their livery, and then took the widget on the tail and turned it 90 degrees to face towards the back of the fin instead of the front. You think THAT would all of a sudden please the masses who wrote them to recommend change in the color scheme?!?!

TIS
www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
 
Boston92
Posts: 2603
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:20 pm



Quoting TedTAce (Reply 129):
'we are the only game out there, so you are stuck with us no matter what'. That's not a very good attitude to have considering there are alternatives.

That statement is very contradictory. Also, I don't speak for Mirrodie or DM, but I doubt either have that mentality.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:25 pm

Looks like it's back 'in production' Oh Joy.
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User avatar
moo
Posts: 4903
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:29 pm

The half and half thing in the forums really does *not* work.

Oh, and the background 'Check Spelling' and 'Save Draft' javascript calls steal focus from the text area in FireFox 3 RC1 - that means that halfway through typing a reply, I have to stop and click back in the text area.

Been happening on and off for the past week or so, just been pissed off enough to mention it now.
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:30 pm



Quoting Flyheligirl (Thread starter):
We look forward to any positive feedback

What about negative.

Problems with centering and underlining apart (I'm sure those can be fixed) I just don't like the new front page. It's cluttered and doesn't seem to flow as well as the old one.

Is there a reason for fixing what wasn't broken?
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:30 pm

BOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The old one was far better
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:31 pm

Why are forum messages underlined? It's hard to read and very annoying.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
Boston92
Posts: 2603
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:33 pm



Quoting DL021 (Reply 135):

Everything is just a hyper link to nothing for some reason. I am sure DM will have it fixed by July, no worries.
 
DABZF
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:25 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:33 pm

Haven't been in the Site Related for awhile so this was a shock for me... 5mins ago... the page changed to the new version on reload... No, No, No, No, No and once more NO!
Keep the old one!

If it ain't broken don't fix it!!!
I like driving backwards in the fog cause it doesn't remind me of anything - Chris Cornell
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:33 pm



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 138):
Why are forum messages underlined?

I'm not seeing this. I guess I'm lucky?  Confused
I lift things up and put them down.
 
huskyaviation
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:38 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:34 pm

Definitely not a fan. The site used to have a professional look, now it looks like something that someone designed on Geocities in about 1995, all jumbled up and disorganized.
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3257
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 12:37 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:36 pm

Awful.

Bring back the old design. It wasn't broken, so why bother ruining it?
 
User avatar
jorge1812
Posts: 2914
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:11 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:36 pm

Mixing old and new together like it's now is not so good. Make it new for 100% or let it like it has been!

georg
 
DABZF
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:25 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:37 pm



Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 139):
Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 138):
Why are forum messages underlined?

I'm not seeing this. I guess I'm lucky? Confused

... seems like it's only happening in IE not in Firefox Big grin
I like driving backwards in the fog cause it doesn't remind me of anything - Chris Cornell
 
User avatar
shamrock350
Posts: 5404
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:38 pm

The homepage is cluttered as mentioned before and there is a lot of wasted space towards the bottom of the page. Looks pretty bad.

The new blue looks awful against the original colour of the forum.

The Airlines.net logo needs to be centered, the search box is way too big and not needed.

Other than that I welcome a few changes but only if they are done correctly which doesn't seem to be case at the moment.
 
ebs757
Posts: 620
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:45 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:38 pm

this really blows... looks like a nickelodeon website and whats with not being able to see all the post's at once
Viva la Vida
 
User avatar
Braybuddy
Posts: 6693
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:14 pm

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:39 pm

Too much too soon, I think. Some of it is good, but I reckon there'll be a lot of opposition. Why does the text keep underlining itself when the cursor is moved near it?
 
gkirk
Posts: 23398
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:39 pm

Oh joy, bring back Johan. All is forgiven. At least he listened to the users.


Worst looking home page for a website, ever.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
checkraiser
Posts: 814
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:35 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:40 pm

You
have
got
to
be
kidding
me.
N1120A is a camel-fucking terrorist.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4903
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: New Homepage

Thu May 29, 2008 8:40 pm

Seriously guys, as a professional web developer can I just say that this design is a travesty - its horrible, its clunky, by the sound of it several people will see different things (anyone else got the 'From joined 800 posts' thing in black?), the mixture of old and new (forums vs headers) clashes badly and in an unprofessional way.

Too many disparate colours in use on the forum pages (looking at this text box, I can see white, black, two shades of blue, yellow and red text - thats bad visual design).

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