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ANCFlyer
Topic Author
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Kroc No Longer Crew?

Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:45 pm

https://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/profile.main?username=KROC

https://www.airliners.net/about/

So, appears KROC is no longer on the "crew list".

Sad to see a founding member of this site no longer part of the crew . . .
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:12 pm

What happened?

Indeed, sad to see him go. Never had a problem with him.
 
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viaggiare
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:35 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
So, appears KROC is no longer on the "crew list".



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 1):
What happened?

These remarks smack of bad faith and covert hostility... perverse.
 
Halcyon
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:59 pm



Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 2):

Interesting, so does yours.


Will there be a new head mod or will we stay with only 2? Also, I'm not sure, but why did we have three head mods anyhow? Was it do to time zones or was it something like the photo screening where a decision would be made officially by all three?
 
flyheligirl
Posts: 313
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:10 am

Hi all,

KROC was a great asset to our team and we are sad to see him go. Every team grows and changes and the evolution of any team is normal and healthy. KROC was asked to take a moderator position (not head mod) and he declined. Although we wanted to retain him, we understand that change was needed. We have the utmost respect and appreciation for all his work over the years.

If anyone has any direct questions, please feel free to email me personally.

Thank you,

Monique
 
flyheligirl
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:14 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:14 am



Quoting Halcyon (Reply 3):
Will there be a new head mod or will we stay with only 2? Also, I'm not sure, but why did we have three head mods anyhow? Was it do to time zones or was it something like the photo screening where a decision would be made officially by all three?

PanAm_DC10 and Diamond have been asked to be head mods so there will be a total of 4 head moderators. I think, someone can correct me if I'm wrong but the reason for having 3 mods was for balance of power and time zones. It's not a strict policy, just something that fit. An old time crew member may have more insight into why 3 was the magic number.

Thanks,

Monique
 
Halcyon
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:20 am



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 5):

Thank you, I figured that it was for time zones.
 
ANCFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 21391
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:51 am

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 2):

Nothing hostile about pointing out that a Head Mod is on longer part of the crew . . .

KROC was a founding member here. His absence in the crew is a quandry. It bears being made public.

You can live with it or not.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 4):
If anyone has any direct questions, please feel free to email me personally.

Why not make it public Monique. You and DM have nothing to lose here . . . do you?

Not    as I barely post here anymore, just wondering. The membership should know the answers to the resignation/dismissal of the longest standing Moderator, and a founding member of this web site.

Thanks.

[Edited 2008-07-08 18:03:04]

[Edited 2008-07-08 18:03:33]
 
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carmenlu15
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:03 am



Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 2):
These remarks smack of bad faith and covert hostility... perverse.

How so, if I may ask?
 
ANCFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 21391
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:10 am



Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 8):


Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 2):
These remarks smack of bad faith and covert hostility... perverse.

How so, if I may ask?

Exactly.

Mike's been a presence on this site from theday it started. Pointing out that fact that he's no longer aboard the Crew List is not bad faith, nor hostile.

I'd like an explanation also . . .

I point out the blindingly obvious, in no way violating any rule, and it's "Bad Faith and Hostile".

Now I'm quite capable of delivering the "Hostile", effectively and effeciently, but I know our two new Head Moderators would'nt settle for it . . . therefore, I must 'contain myself'.
 
flyheligirl
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:14 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:14 am



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 2):

Nothing hostile about pointing out that a Head Mod is on longer part of the crew . . .

KROC was a founding member here. His absence in the crew is a quandry. It bears being made public.

You can live with it or not.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 4):
If anyone has any direct questions, please feel free to email me personally.

Why not make it public Monique. You and DM have nothing to lose here . . . do you?

Not as I barely post here anymore, just wondering. The membership should know the answers to the resignation/dismissal of the longest standing Moderator, and a founding member of this web site.

Thanks.

Pep, things change all the time within groups, businesses and so on. Mike and Airliners.net left on amicable terms and it was time to move on for both parties, nothing deeper than that. If you feel the need to know a play by play ask KROC.

Thanks,

Monique
 
Halcyon
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:15 am

Well, the two new Head Mods aren't showing up yet. I know there isn't any ceremony or anything. Does DM choose the head mods then? Also, how are they chosen? It is based on company policy or how accurate the post/user deletions they've given out are? I remember when a really great mod was let go, and I know he made a bunch of fair post deletions, so I'm leaning for the former rather than the latter.

I'm not sure that we needed to add a mod from the US as head mod, even though KROC was terminated, because we do have Canada covered. Why not add one from Germany or somewhere else instead?

It'll be interesting if we ever get the full story on what happened...so many old faces disappearing. Sorry to ask so many questions, but are you guys now going to get new regular mods?

Congrats to those that have climbed the ladder.
 
ANCFlyer
Topic Author
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:18 am



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 10):
If you feel the need to know a play by play ask KROC.

Thanks, I'll do so. . . .

I believe, in my own mind, and based on my own experience with you, that all is not as it may appear . . . .

Regards . . . .
 
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IHadAPheo
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:21 am

A sad day for myself and more so for the site. Mike (KROC) was a mod way back when I joined the crew and I learned how to be a mod from him (and my my mentor at the time 174th..") Mike was the reason I applied for my mod postion and I enjoyed every minute of my time as a mod/head mod mostly due to my having the pleasure of working with him.

If it is true that Mike ius no longer crew all I can say is the following..

Mike thank you for all you have done for the site, I have seen you work from "both sides of the fence" and I the time and effort you put into your duties. while not all members know the efforts you made to defend the "average" member I for one do and for that I salute and thank you all you have done not only for me but of greater importance ... for the site

IHAP

A sad day it is...
 
flyheligirl
Posts: 313
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:21 am



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Thanks, I'll do so. . . .

I believe, in my own mind, and based on my own experience with you, that all is not as it may appear . . . .

Regards . . . .

You can take the tin foil hat off now Pep.
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:37 am

I'm a little thrown off by this move.

It doesn't surprise me to see who the new head either.

I'm concerned as KROC was one of the only fair mods. Not to mention he was around in the early days and knows Anet and the community.

Now should we start a pool, who is going to be next? AC320, Mirrode?
 
vaporlock
Posts: 3528
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:48 am



Quoting Ihadapheo (Reply 13):
Mike thank you for all you have done for the site, I have seen you work from "both sides of the fence" and I the time and effort you put into your duties. while not all members know the efforts you made to defend the "average" member I for one do and for that I salute and thank you all you have done not only for me but of greater importance ... for the site

Well said....


Vaps  bouncy 
 
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IHadAPheo
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:55 am

Back in the day Mike and the rest of my fellow mods were like the brothers I never had, we had our disagreements, we had our shouting matches but in the end we worked things out for our "family" and as stupid as it sounds our family was the membership. Mike always put the site and the membership before himself and I could only dream of having his drive to better the site, Everyday when I was crew a had the chance to see his effort and commitment to the rest of the "community" and his behind the scenes effort are the stuff of legend

The community has lost a large part of it's heart and it is the community that has suffered the greatest loss. A sad day for all

IHAP
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:58 am

I for one am glad he's gone. He always loved his position a little too much.
 
dl021
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:58 am

Mike is a great guy and his actions where I've been concerned have always been fair and evenhanded. When he's deleted one of my posts I generally agreed with him, and always...but always...found him to be fair and responsive.

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 2):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
So, appears KROC is no longer on the "crew list".



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 1):
What happened?

These remarks smack of bad faith and covert hostility... perverse.

I don't see that at all.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:29 am

Monique,

I hope you don't take the following comments personally, but I think I am at a point where I need to say them. And I hope they are taken in the spirit that they are intended. That is as a source of feedback that can be used to improve the site and the product that you now manage.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 4):
we understand that change was needed.

Well I will acknowledge that change comes with the territory especially when you have a new owner taking over. But there is a difference between changing the curtains and ripping down walls and I would ask that bit of wisdom be kept in the back of the minds of the ownership group.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 10):
Pep, things change all the time within groups, businesses and so on.

The problem is that I fear that some of the changes made has alienated some of the primary stakeholders in this site, and I question the effect they will have long-term. One of the big changes that I am not comfortable with now is that I don't feel I can post concerns that I have about this sites direction, management, or other issues without getting sacked or enduring some other type of retaliation by the ownership's Representatives. Especially after the events of three weeks ago. I think others feel this way, and as long as that fear exists, you won't be provided with good user/member/stakeholder input on where your weak areas are and where your strengths are.

If you don't have that info I fear that decisions will be made that will be detrimental to this website. It would be the first time in any business model by any means. I would like to see it not happen here.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 5):
PanAm_DC10 and Diamond have been asked to be head mods so there will be a total of 4 head moderators.

Well I wish them the best in their roles....but I do have some issues with one of those choices. Just too many of what I would call unfair calls. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and not intentionally try to snowball them, but I am keeping an eye open.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 14):
You can take the tin foil hat off now Pep.

That is just disrespectful.

I think I need to point out that he is one of your customers. The way you present yourself does affect how you are perceived by your customers and your stakeholders.

Quoting Ihadapheo (Reply 17):
The community has lost a large part of it's heart and it is the community that has suffered the greatest loss. A sad day for all

Ihadapheo, do you remember when I had that blow up with Johan about article citations and copyright rules back in 2002?

After we cooled down and Johan brought me back to life, I posted this.

https://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/non_aviation/read.main/217456

I know I couldn't post the same sentiments today. And I am saddened by how many UN flags are next to the usernames in the responses. I think that there is a sense of ownership and personal/emotional attachement to this site by the membership that has gone away.

That is what I morn about the changes here. I don't see the current management being willing to make up after a serious fight like Johan and I did six years ago.

Monique I would like you to read that...what maybe we can start another thread on what we could do to get back to that spirit here? At this moment I am not feeling it.
 
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IHadAPheo
Posts: 5505
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 3:26 pm

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:47 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
Ihadapheo, do you remember when I had that blow up with Johan about article citations and copyright rules back in 2002?

I do remember that, but as you said that was a long time ago and almost in a different place.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
I think that there is a sense of ownership and personal/emotional attachement to this site by the membership that has gone away

There was a huge sense of community and yes that has to great extent gone by the wayside. In fact many members and crew that I would call friends and many that I have had the great fortune to meet in person are no longer here.

The fact that Mike is no longer a head mod or crew is a blow to the community that was and is A.net.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 5):
An old time crew member may have more insight into why 3 was the magic number.

Now it has been quite a while since my crew days but as far as I can remember there were 3 of us to avoid a tie in any decision making votes and since Mike and I lived about 60 miles apart time zones were not a real issue

IHAP
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
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RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:05 am



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 4):
KROC was a great asset to our team and we are sad to see him go. Every team grows and changes and the evolution of any team is normal and healthy. KROC was asked to take a moderator position (not head mod) and he declined. Although we wanted to retain him, we understand that change was needed. We have the utmost respect and appreciation for all his work over the years.

Why was it necessary for him to drop from head to normal mod then? Was KROC asked to be demoted or did he ask to be relieved of duty? Your comments raise more questions than they answer here.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 4):
If anyone has any direct questions, please feel free to email me personally.

Why not in the open? If a.net needs anything currently, it's sunshine. Unless of course KROC is requesting privacy in which case I would of course be respectful of his wishes. If so, I'm sure he'll be glad to respond here to clear things up.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 5):
PanAm_DC10 and Diamond have been asked to be head mods so there will be a total of 4 head moderators. I think, someone can correct me if I'm wrong but the reason for having 3 mods was for balance of power and time zones. It's not a strict policy, just something that fit. An old time crew member may have more insight into why 3 was the magic number.

Have you paid any attention to what the Chimp has to say? When it comes to old time mods, Zippy and KROC are the gold standard.

Also, have you considered user input for selecting head mods? Presumably the site is for the users and we should have the best idea of what works and does not. I really don't think you'd have the same set of head mods if you sought the user community's input. Note that I don't really have a problem historically with any of the mods - this is simply an informed observation. Do I think that a few mods, current and future heads included go to far when it comes to requiring everything be PC, even when the rules don't require it? Yes, but that's not entirely the issue here.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 14):
You can take the tin foil hat off now Pep.

??????

Et tu.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:15 am

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 5):
An old time crew member may have more insight into why 3 was the magic number.

Originally we had four Head Mods but there were times when we were deadlocked over a decision so when Hepkat left us we didn't replace him.



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
The membership should know........ the longest standing Moderator

Not true. Mirrodie, BNE, sabena332, myself and possibly AC320 were all mods before KROC joined the team.

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 11):
Does DM choose the head mods then? Also, how are they chosen? It is based on company policy or how accurate the post/user deletions they've given out are? I remember when a really great mod was let go, and I know he made a bunch of fair post deletions, so I'm leaning for the former rather than the latter.

DM makes the ultimate decision on Head Mod selection. The selection will be based on their observations of how a candidate operates & the recommendations of the existing Head Mods.

To become a candidate we look at their pro-activity. That is to say how much an individual contributes to group discussions and the ideas/suggestions they bring with them, their general availability, their ability to bring new ideas on forum management to the group and so forth. How many deletions they make is not taken into consideration.

[Edited 2008-07-09 01:28:57]
 
Halcyon
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:37 am



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 25):
DM makes the ultimate decision on Head Mod selection. The selection will be based on their observations of how a candidate operates & the recommendations of the existing Head Mods.

Thank you for an that answer, which, even if I hypothetically disagreed with the choice of the head mods, is honest.
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:11 am



Quoting Ihadapheo (Reply 21):
The fact that Mike is no longer a head mod or crew is a blow to the community that was and is A.net.

Nothing else to say..........

See you around the web KROC.
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:43 pm



Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 2):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
So, appears KROC is no longer on the "crew list".



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 1):
What happened?

These remarks smack of bad faith and covert hostility... perverse.

Assumption. Know what the perspective is on people who assume?

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 4):

If anyone has any direct questions, please feel free to email me personally.

Thank you,

Monique

Cool, thx - I'll keep the questions broad and general, then, if I have any to share.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 5):

PanAm_DC10 and Diamond have been asked to be head mods so there will be a total of 4 head moderators.

I'd have figured Sabena and BNE would have been next up - they've been here quite awhile.

You and I started out a bit rough here, Mike, but I've always found you to be decent. Too bad DM doesn't have you (or anyone else to my knowledge) apparently (not assumption there guys, just a perspective that could use more info  Wink ) willing to act as a respectable counterweight to their ideas/actions, and at least hopefully not as drones to a queen.

I guess for any potential visitor/member here at Anet, they may not have SR to check for info, but, for better or worse, there's always Wikipedia.
 
IFEMaster
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:59 pm



Quoting L-188 (Reply 20):
I don't feel I can post concerns that I have about this sites direction, management, or other issues without getting sacked or enduring some other type of retaliation by the ownership's Representatives. Especially after the events of three weeks ago.

 checkmark  One of the many reasons I hardly post here any more. It's not nice feeling like you're walking on glass all the time.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 20):
That is just disrespectful.

 checkmark  Monique, your comment surprises me. Given that Pep is/was one of the most respected users of a.net (until he voluntarily dropped his posting volume sometime around The Purge of last month), I think he deserves more respect than that, especially from someone who represents DM and has spoken in the past of wanting to continue the community feel of this website. Comments like that do the exact opposite.
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:29 pm

I'm wondering if KROC will be around here much longer - if he is, I still plan to have him on my RR list. I can't update my profile, though, until I get rid of usernames like MDorBust, Queso, Halls120 and Wingnut767 from my RR list (because they're no longer here), but I refuse to remove them since I still respect them.
 
flyheligirl
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:14 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:57 pm



Quoting L-188 (Reply 20):
Monique I would like you to read that...what maybe we can start another thread on what we could do to get back to that spirit here? At this moment I am not feeling it.

Thank you so much for your post, it was great and I'll take your advice about starting a new thread on this matter today.

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 22):
Also, have you considered user input for selecting head mods? Presumably the site is for the users and we should have the best idea of what works and does not. I really don't think you'd have the same set of head mods if you sought the user community's input. Note that I don't really have a problem historically with any of the mods - this is simply an informed observation. Do I think that a few mods, current and future heads included go to far when it comes to requiring everything be PC, even when the rules don't require it? Yes, but that's not entirely the issue here.

The crew and DM will make ultimate decisions on crew members, that's how it's always been even prior to DM. We always take user feedback and comments, but the ultimate decision will be made internally.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 23):
DM makes the ultimate decision on Head Mod selection. The selection will be based on their observations of how a candidate operates & the recommendations of the existing Head Mods.

This is true, DM would have the final call on these matters but it's not out of thin air that we make any decisions of this magnitude. We pull from opinions within the crew, the future of the site and so on. The crews opinion and feedback will always weigh heavily on any decision to move crew around.

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 27):

checkmark Monique, your comment surprises me. Given that Pep is/was one of the most respected users of a.net (until he voluntarily dropped his posting volume sometime around The Purge of last month), I think he deserves more respect than that, especially from someone who represents DM and has spoken in the past of wanting to continue the community feel of this website. Comments like that do the exact opposite.

I'm going to be as honest as possible. Pep has called me out many times for being "too happy", blowing smoke and fake with my communications. I posted that because I was being honest. If anyone thinks there is more to this story, they should consult with KROC. There is no conspiracy theory going on, hence the comment about the tin hat.

Basically, I can't win with some people from the community. If I post extremely professional remarks, I'm being "too fake", if I post racy remarks I'm a poor and mean representative.

Pep - I'm sorry if I offended you. I thought you could take this remark. If you couldn't, then I apologize.

If anyone was offended because I said someone should take off their tin hat, well, I apologize.

Thanks,

Monique
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:36 pm

Funny things is both ANCflyer and Kroc have said worse then the "tin hat" remark!
 
strandedinbgm
Posts: 250
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:58 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:08 am



Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 15):
It doesn't surprise me to see who the new head either.

I'm concerned as KROC was one of the only fair mods. Not to mention he was around in the early days and knows Anet and the community.

Agreed.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 20):
Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 14):
You can take the tin foil hat off now Pep.

That is just disrespectful.

If another member were to say that to her they would be reprimanded. There is a double standard. Demand respect - provide respect.

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 22):
Et tu.


Brilliant.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 23):
To become a candidate we look at their pro-activity. That is to say how much an individual contributes to group discussions and the ideas/suggestions they bring with them, their general availability, their ability to bring new ideas on forum management to the group and so forth. How many deletions they make is not taken into consideration.

I can think of at least one moderator that may be a bit dissapointed in the choice. Is it possible that his behavior on other sites may have played a role in him being overlooked?
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:34 am

I'd like to know what happened to Mike's post that was on here this morning.
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:51 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 32):
Funny things is both ANCflyer and Kroc have said worse then the "tin hat" remark!

So have all of us....... before last fall anyway.

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 34):
I'd like to know what happened to Mike's post that was on here this morning.

As would I. There was nothing there that broke any rule.
 
SFO2SVO
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:56 pm

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:07 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 32):
Funny things is both ANCflyer and Kroc have said worse then the "tin hat" remark!

They earned the right to say a lot of things by dedicating years and years to this site.
ANCFlyer, KROC, thank you!
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:27 am



Quoting SFO2SVO (Reply 36):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 32):
Funny things is both ANCflyer and Kroc have said worse then the "tin hat" remark!

They earned the right to say a lot of things by dedicating years and years to this site.
ANCFlyer, KROC, thank you!

I'm not sure anyone ever "earns" the right to talk mean and down to people just because they are in a leadership role!
 
Schoenorama
Posts: 2305
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 5:15 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:46 am



Quoting SFO2SVO (Reply 36):
They earned the right to say a lot of things by dedicating years and years to this site.
ANCFlyer, KROC, thank you!

Earned the right? LOL

They were users, just like you and me! With the same set of rules to comply with. Sadly, that did not always happen. Or do you think it is OK when a moderator posts completely off-topic and nothing happens while your posts do get deleted? I for one do not.
 
flyheligirl
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:14 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:53 am



Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 35):
Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 34):
I'd like to know what happened to Mike's post that was on here this morning.

As would I. There was nothing there that broke any rule.

KROC posted proprietary information plus a snippet of a private conversation that had confidential crew information. Both of these are against the rules.

I don't want this to turn into, "no he didn't", "yes he did" kind of thread. You asked what rules were broken and I stated them. We don't usually post and defend every deletion to users but this particular deletion was unique because it was posted by KROC.

Hope that clears this up.

Monique
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:02 am



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 31):
Quoting L-188 (Reply 20):
Monique I would like you to read that...what maybe we can start another thread on what we could do to get back to that spirit here? At this moment I am not feeling it.

Thank you so much for your post, it was great and I'll take your advice about starting a new thread on this matter today.

Thank you, I'll spot you some points for that.

I don't really have any grudges against DM but I do feel that as a stakeholder I do have an obligation to try and point out where improvements can be made. I just don't want away from 9 years of building friendships and participating in a hobby becuase of the change in management. I am sure there are others that feel that way.

But I do think I should point out that part of the problem was not that you started that thread, but that none of us on this site was willing to risk being banned for offending Demand Media or A-Net by posting it. Not that I was one of those who really complained about the reprograming diffuclties of the past year but I do think that having users to point out the warts is a healthy thing.

If you don't have that it creates a bad situation, where you are only surronded by yes men, so to speak, and your product suffers.
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:11 am



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 39):
I don't want this to turn into, "no he didn't", "yes he did" kind of thread. You asked what rules were broken and I stated them. We don't usually post and defend every deletion to users but this particular deletion was unique because it was posted by KROC.

I appreciate you responding to that. I respect the deletion decision.
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:24 am



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 31):
The crew and DM will make ultimate decisions on crew members, that's how it's always been even prior to DM.

I never said or implied differently.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 31):
We always take user feedback and comments

It really hasn't been very apparent lately to be perfectly honest. Let's hope today is a new start though.
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:43 am



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 31):
We always take user feedback and comments, but the ultimate decision will be made internally.

Why do I read that as
"You can tell us, but we will make our own mind up and not listen"

Chat Room
Forum Rules
Main Page redesign

Im thinking of all the people that have given comments etc on these and not be listened to, just ignored.
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:44 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 37):
Quoting SFO2SVO (Reply 36):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 32):
Funny things is both ANCflyer and Kroc have said worse then the "tin hat" remark!

They earned the right to say a lot of things by dedicating years and years to this site.
ANCFlyer, KROC, thank you!

I'm not sure anyone ever "earns" the right to talk mean and down to people just because they are in a leadership role!

Those guys are big boys - sometimes they bite, and sometimes you have to bite back. I bit into KROC (mostly in jest, but it a bit harsh) even before I knew who the guy was (when I was a new member - first time 'round), and gained some respect from it. If you know you can be respectable, don't back down - not from those two or the people who run this place. If you get run, so be it. Just don't be stupid about it. I've had to check myself before posting stuff that I know would get deleted simply because I was being a doofus. Some other times it's worth it to make a point whether the post will get canned or not.
 
Elite
Posts: 2309
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:31 pm

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:00 pm



Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 18):
I for one am glad he's gone. He always loved his position a little too much.

It's good to love your job, even though it is just a voluntary position... he was a veteran crew member, and even though I didn't know him well personally from what I have heard he was a great mod.

Looking at things from a user point of view, recently, and even just in this thread, I see a lot of improvement between the users and the management and hope that this will continue to be better.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14542
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:17 pm

Well KROC:



for spending time for the a.net community.

Lots of time to (better) use it better

 
SFO2SVO
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:56 pm

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:43 pm



Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 36):
They were users, just like you and me! With the same set of rules to comply with. Sadly, that did not always happen.

True

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 35):
I'm not sure anyone ever "earns" the right to talk mean and down to people just because they are in a leadership role!

No, of course, not.
But we are all humans and sometimes do mean things. I am somehow more willing to forgive mean remark coming from someone with 10000+ mostly valuable and helpful posts. This may sound like "some animals are more equal then others" - but oh, well...
 
flyheligirl
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:14 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:29 pm



Quoting Trekster (Reply 42):
Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 31):
We always take user feedback and comments, but the ultimate decision will be made internally.

Why do I read that as
"You can tell us, but we will make our own mind up and not listen"

I don't know why you read it negatively. I wrote exactly what I meant. If you feel the need to add words to spin it negatively, well, I can't say much about that.


Let me put it this way...

We have 200 comments and we 150 of them and use them. The other 50 we decide not to use for various reasons. There will be a vocal, annoyed group of 50 that says we do not listen to anything.

I'm not saying we've been perfect, but understand that we are in a difficult position at times and no matter what, there will always be a small minority that feel they are not being listened to. Again, I'm not saying it's the case here, just trying to point out that there will never be a time were every single user is happy... for one, people have different opinions.

That's my 2 cents.

Monique
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11624
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:12 am



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 29):
Basically, I can't win with some people from the community.

I'm going to add my two cents to the debate.

Frankly, if I were you, I wouldn't bother. It is evident that there are those who will just never be happy and have become so cynical that there is a point of no return.

Yes there are problems. The home page is not to everyone's taste and the forum layout changes a few weeks back were an unmitigated disaster.

But the hysteria that followed was just bizarre. The forum was effed for what? A few days? Hardly anything to get a headache over and moreover, one found that one could post and reply to threads just as before.

Assuming you are working for the site in good faith, wasting your time answering petty questions is an exercise in futility and your energies are more useful directed elsewhere.

And the hero worship of certain users / ex-users is over the top. Not specific to them, but referring to others as well, I wonder how popular I would be if I extolled the virtues of the right wing of politics combined with advocation for gun ownership, military action against 'rogue states' and posted a tirade against Muslims.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4770
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:17 am



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 47):
But the hysteria that followed was just bizarre. The forum was effed for what? A few days? Hardly anything to get a headache over and moreover, one found that one could post and reply to threads just as before.

What was "effed" about the forum was how we were treated after the homepage was released. I think we are still seeing the fallout of bitterness as a result of how we, along with our opinions were treated by DM and the Mods. I tell ya, it sure felt like one giant F-U to the entire community for having an opinion.

Also lets not forget other areas that are "effed" right now, most importantly, photography. Photographers and forum users are generally not happy right now. Who else is there? The two main groups are upset. Oh wait, there is a third group...crew. Sounds like things aren't exactly peaches and cream with them either...

Things are such a mess right now...such and unbelievable mess. It is so ugly around here, it's quite depressing. I cannot believe it. It is indeed bizarre. And to learn the news about some crew members, including the mod discussed in this thread, it just...I dunno, it just SUCKS. What is happening to this place?!
 
chachu201
Posts: 773
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:22 am

RE: Kroc No Longer Crew?

Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:46 pm



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 48):
It is so ugly around here

Well I think it's looking quite nice actually, I like the new design and the improvements we've seen.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 48):
Oh wait, there is a third group...crew. Sounds like things aren't exactly peaches and cream with them either...

Well I'm a bit stressed out admittedly, however I still enjoy helping out around here - and I think the only reason I'm stressed is because I deal with people who are themselves stressed. Meh...

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