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andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:58 am



Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 97):
Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 96):
However, it seems to me and many on this board the current ownership is putting money ahead of everything. That supports what I wrote and you quoted.

If anything, it is proof that you've been beating the same old horse for the last three years, long before Johan even thought of selling the place.

Those with business experience understand that making money is often about keeping ALL customers happy.

Whether it would be the person who gives you a $1000 job, or a client that continually sends work your way.

There are plenty of companies who place 'prestige' and other financial matters above customer service. We have known plenty of those in our 19 years of service. These companies will often decide not to work on the 'little' stuff. Small clients get neglected. Or they simply tell them that they have 'no time'. And often tell their own clients that they know better.

That is bad customer service.

We started out as a two man shop. Took (and keep taking) whatever jobs come our way. And always go the extra mile. And for our boss, the client is ALWAYS RIGHT.

The result?

While other companies have come and gone, we have 25 people working here. And in this time of financial difficulties for many in the construction industry, we still have enough work to keep us busy.

The lesson?

Keeping your customer base happy is the best way to make money.

Ask SQ how much customer service contributes to their financial well-being.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 98):
Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 90):
Again, please let's move on from Pep,

Monique, this tells me that you aren't hearing the situation.

The original band of 'malcontents' that were accused of being the drivers of the complaints are gone. But others have certainly come to take their place.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 83):
1. The thread will be closed next Monday, 7/14 (timeline per a user's request)

It was my understanding that only thread starters could request a thread be locked.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Thread starter):



Quoting L-188 (Reply 98):
but part of moving forward is undoing the wrongs of the past

You and I well know that it is already too late.
 
skidmarks
Posts: 6614
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:51 pm

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:28 am

It appears to me that there are two completely separate camps forming here. Those for DM's administration, and those against. And what we are seeing is a completely purposeless tit-for-tat argument developing.

I supoort no particular "camp". I support Airliners.net and will continue to do so until such time as the situation goes completely down the pan.

However, Airliners.net is no longer the place it used to be and I would suggest to everyone that the fighting, sniping and slagging stops before it becomes simply another aviation website among others, rather then THE aviation website over all others.

DM need to realise and, if they already do, that to aliennate the people who actively contribute to the site is counterproductive and damaging. They will lose the uniqueness and sharpness that put Airliners.net above the rest. They will lose, as they have done, experienced and dynamic photographers who make the site what it is, or was.

The users need to start to understand that a change has happened and that they have a role to play in making that change work. They may disagree with some, or all, of DM's changes, improvements and ideas, but the irreversable fact is, DM now own the site and they are a profit making organisation. Intelligent and reasoned debate is what is required, not dirt-digging and mud-slinging.

There will always be people who disagree, who argue or who make an effort to be downright objectionable. But there is a place for them as much as there is a place for the person who lives, eats and breathes aviation , who wouldn't set foot in Non-av for anything. This site became a community that worked, that thrived and blossomed into something great.

Right now it is shrivelling into nothing and unless some decent fertaliser can be found, unless a gardener with greener fingers than Johan is around or the whole of the Pond life pull together, this site will die a sad and ignominious death.

There, another post when I said I wasn't going to. See what Airliners.net means to me? if you don't you need to see Psych or someone!!

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
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viaggiare
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:17 am



Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 101):
There, another post when I said I wasn't going to. See what Airliners.net means to me? if you don't you need to see Psych or someone!!

Feedback can't possibly get any more constructive than that, old man. Hopefully your words will be like the stone that falls in the middle of the pond, generating concentric waves of unsuspected magnitude that will pave the way for a win-win outcome.
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
SoBe
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:11 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:26 pm



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 90):
We've discussed internally and because of the post below, we decided to leave it up as it included other information that was pertinent to the thread.

Obviously your word means nothing. Was it too hard to moderate yourself?
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4761
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:41 pm



Quoting Boston92 (Reply 91):
Is that a joke?

You actually wasted your time to "internally discuss" it instead of deleting and re-posting the so called pertinent info.

I say let it stay. It doesn't exactly make her look very good. Lets be happy that it is here as a form of documentation.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5399
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:42 pm



Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 84):
Only voters being First Class members and photographers.

Forget that. If you pay you vote. Period. Letting only a few vote would note be fair for the others. Plus there are alot of people on (that are First class/Photographers) that I don't want speaking for me. (scary thought)

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 94):
Why do you so loyally defend DM? What have they done for you? You really do not see what is going on here?

There is a way we say it here in the States but I know if I say it I'll be banned but i'll give a hint.....starts with kiss.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 96):
But you do have the time and the patience to go back three years to find something I posted that you think almost supports your point of view? I think someone needs a life.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting L-188 (Reply 98):
Monique, this tells me that you aren't hearing the situation. This isn't just about Pep, It is a bigger issue then Halls, Pep, Kroc, Ted, or any of the others that are here, left, forced out, killed, and it relates directly to to user satisfaction with the management here.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:30 pm

So I took my time to read through almost all posts.

Am I fearful..... god I am sitting in front of an arabic computer and I can't find the question mark. Big grin

No I am not fearful although I got banned once for not even knowing why. But I thought to myself that there must be a reason. There might be some mods who delete just because they need a reason for being a mod IMO, BUT the majority is TOP.

On the other hand the site has become better compared after the take over but there is still a long way to become perfect.

As for the discussion about some former mods/members: I do not know why certain members were deleted ( also some I always liked to discuss with) but there must be some reason. If anyone is willing to post why please do so if not then not. On the other hand I believe that everyone should look for his own stuff as those mentioned members are for sure man enough to defend themselves!  Smile ( Although banned  duck  )

Airliners.net is still my number one site and thank god most members here do not care as much on bashing it then contributing a lot of great stuff!

 thumbsup  keep this site running and improving Monique!  Smile
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:10 pm



Quoting Halcyon (Reply 21):
Monique, that you could gain a lot of credibility by reinstating many of the users that were outright deleted.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

A few years ago Rick Swensen had a run-in with the Iditarod over a dog that passed away on him. The Iditarod came off it's high horse when they came to the realization that they needed him more then he needed them.

I hope that DM realizes that they are currently in the place of the Iditarod IMHO, and the users are Rick.

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 21):
I talked to a crew member recently about how the negative feelings are part of a vicious cycle: many users don't trust DM and the moderation that, as you say, you've been having the mods do, so they are, of course, hostile. This leads to post deletions from the mods, who become pissed off, which makes the users angrier, and then the users see that entire accounts have been wiped out, and...it just doesn't end.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 21):
I don't want to leave Airliners on a bad foot,

I don't either, I have spent too much time here.

Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 42):
1. Leadership cannot be taught or learned, it is inherent. You can, however, learn habits that can make you more effective

2. Leaders must make their "underlings" WANT to work/perform for them by motivation and a sense of ownership, rather than fear. Because while fear can increase productivity, it reduces quality. (in this case, underlings would be the forum membership)!.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

But I don't know if I agree entirely with the leadership/underling relationship. I currently feel more that they are producing a product now, with the users here being bot the customer and the raw material.

Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 42):
1. Leadership cannot be taught or learned, it is inherent. You can, however, learn habits that can make you more effective

2. Leaders must make their "underlings" WANT to work/perform for them by motivation and a sense of ownership, rather than fear. Because while fear can increase productivity, it reduces quality. (in this case, underlings would be the forum membership)!

It would seem that DM could learn from these 2 points, on a number of different levels: from moderator selection and retention, to forum and site administration.



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 72):
However, this isn't a group of 14 year olds (well, it is turning into that now) like myspace. This is a site of a lot of experts in many fields. The users here don't tolerate being pushed around and ignored and they are not afraid to take their ball and leave the playground. Some of these people are at the top of their fields. They didn't get there by being bullied- which has been going on more and more by volunteer members of the crew.

Yeah but that issue has been around for several years now. Tech ops had had some very good people that have left even before the DM era because high-schoolers where questioning 747 skippers about what the latter where saying.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 100):
Quoting L-188 (Reply 98):
Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 90):
Again, please let's move on from Pep,

Monique, this tells me that you aren't hearing the situation.

The original band of 'malcontents' that were accused of being the drivers of the complaints are gone. But others have certainly come to take their place.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

I felt I was pretty indifferent to the whole DM thing when it was announced, it was Johans right to sell this site and DM over the occuring months never really did anything to be directly. They do have the right to modify the site to what they want now.

But when those mods started to directly affect my enjoyment of this site be removing long time members who's comments I have enjoyed reading over the past nine years, that is when I started to complain about the situation.

As I said early in the thread, we are both the customer and the raw materials. DM removed raw materials that made the product that I enjoyed.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
chachu201
Posts: 773
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:22 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:15 pm



Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 101):

Great post, and for the most part I agree with you there, I feel that the site is very much split into two different sides, and that threads like this do contain a lot of tit-for-tat arguing, with the same things being thrown around by each side. I think talking will do some good, but in the end its the actions of Demand Media that will really decide things.

Maybe I had my reservations some months ago, I admit that, and to a certain extent I still have some reservations. However, I still remain really optimistic about this site, not only because it is the best, but also because every week I see changes, and these changes are for the better. Communication has improved drastically, and is now at a level that was greater that it ever was before DM, and I see the functionality returning, the good looks returning, and most of all, the great photos. And I also see into the future - we have a big list, a "Crew Wishlist" of everything that the crew wants, and that DM thinks is possible, and that list, and seeing "completed" next to an increasing number of items on the list, is one of the things that really makes me believe that A.net will remain the great place it always has been.
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:06 pm



Quoting Chachu201 (Reply 108):
Maybe I had my reservations some months ago, I admit that, and to a certain extent I still have some reservations. However, I still remain really optimistic about this site, not only because it is the best, but also because every week I see changes, and these changes are for the better. Communication has improved drastically, and is now at a level that was greater that it ever was before DM, and I see the functionality returning, the good looks returning, and most of all, the great photos. And I also see into the future - we have a big list, a "Crew Wishlist" of everything that the crew wants, and that DM thinks is possible, and that list, and seeing "completed" next to an increasing number of items on the list, is one of the things that really makes me believe that A.net will remain the great place it always has been.

Several people here including me have suggested that sharing this type of information with the users would be a good move towards elminating much of the problems. If management won't directly tell somebody that their feedback is going into the system in a thread, most of us are well able to read such a list and find the appropriate piece and then be patient and wait for results. It beats the hell out of the mushroom treatment.

Yet again, I will suggest that this be considered in some form.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
luv2cattlecall
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:25 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:53 am



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 34):
Pep has been banned many many times before. This is not his first run. He broke rules so his post was deleted, I don't know what else to say. Nothing out of the ordinary.



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 46):
I'll happily delete that statement because this thread is not about Pep, it's about posting rights.



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 90):
Hi,

We've discussed internally and because of the post below, we decided to leave it up as it included other information that was pertinent to the thread.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents that the above demonstrates what many feel is wrong.

If the plan was to discuss the matter "internally" - just tell us! You stated that this thread isn't about Pep, which is why you would delete the statement - the fact that a correction was posted way later is irrelevant because you stated that you would remove it on the basis that this thread isn't about Pep, not on the basis that your original assertion was factually incorrect.

In addition, many readers read the first and last few posts - so they may never see the correction. The mistake has 197 more views than than the correction...that's significant!

If I were to post something in Civ Av that said "Boeing and Airbus to Merge!!" as the OP, then corrected myself with "Oh wait, actually, what I meant was that they're both talking researching xyz together," I can assure you that the thread would be taken down ASAP.

I'm sure when you travel on an airplane, you tend to prefer when they straight up tell you that a flight is going to be delayed due to a engine falling off, vs. you seeing, in plain sight, an plane with a missing engine, while the gate agent is trying to sugar coat it by saying "Not a problem at all, I'll be more than happy to make sure you're at your destination in time!" .... only to come back 21 hours later and say "I have consulted with our engineers and it turns out we can't fly a plane with a missing engine."

While I'm more or less understanding of DM's pov on many things, I'm sorry to say that the whole Pep comment/retraction incident has really hurt my ability to trust you...

Quoting L-188 (Reply 98):
Monique, this tells me that you aren't hearing the situation. This isn't just about Pep, It is a bigger issue then Halls, Pep, Kroc, Ted, or any of the others that are here, left, forced out, killed, and it relates directly to to user satisfaction with the management here.



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 100):


Those with business experience understand that making money is often about keeping ALL customers happy

Exactly, especially on a site like this where 100% of it is user-generated content - unlike, for example. sites such as Gizmodo/other ones that Gawker owns, where the user contents are just an added bonus.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 100):
Ask SQ how much customer service contributes to their financial well-being.

Good comparison! One that I find slightly better is UPS or Fed/Ex vs. DHL where the barrier of defecting to an alternative for the customer is very minimal.
.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15058
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:29 am



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 109):
Yet again, I will suggest that this be considered in some form.

 checkmark Management has, however, unequivocally stated that they will not specifically respond to user input.

Quoting Luv2cattlecall (Reply 110):

Exactly, especially on a site like this where 100% of it is user-generated content - unlike, for example. sites such as Gizmodo/other ones that Gawker owns, where the user contents are just an added bonus.

No more calls, we have a winner.

The basic problem here is that there's a disconnect between management and users generated by the fact that, simply put, folks who are passionate about aviation are uniquely passionate. The reason for that is an interesting question. I think it has something to do with the romance of flying; some of my fondest childhood memories are of trips to the airport with my grandfather to look at planes and of plane trips. I suspect many or most here would say the same.

The fact that DM folks don't share this passion doesn't make them bad people or even necessarily mean that they can't manage this site effectively. HOWEVER, management and users would get along much better if everyone tried to understand where the other is coming from.

Management: Realize that most of those who post here are the sort of folks you'd pass on the street (maybe I should say in the airport) without batting an eye. We're everyday folks who happen to be very passionate about aviation. Except where absolutely necessary, try not to damp this passion. There have unquestionably been instances where management has gotten in the way of users with little or no justification.

Users: Realize that management is in this to make money. Again, there's nothing wrong with making money. However, it leads to a disconnect that people sometimes forget. Explaining why you want something rather than simply saying what you want might go a long way.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5399
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:30 am



Quoting Luv2cattlecall (Reply 110):
I'm sure when you travel on an airplane, you tend to prefer when they straight up tell you that a flight is going to be delayed due to a engine falling off, vs. you seeing, in plain sight, an plane with a missing engine, while the gate agent is trying to sugar coat it by saying "Not a problem at all, I'll be more than happy to make sure you're at your destination in time!" .... only to come back 21 hours later and say "I have consulted with our engineers and it turns out we can't fly a plane with a missing engine."

Or my personal favorite.........."due to weather"(even when the wing is laying on the tarmac)  banghead 

Quoting Luv2cattlecall (Reply 110):
Exactly, especially on a site like this where 100% of it is user-generated content - unlike, for example. sites such as Gizmodo/other ones that Gawker owns, where the user contents are just an added bonus.

 checkmark   checkmark 
I think the some people forget that they need us a hell of alot more than we need them.  Wink

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 90):
I know not everyone would agree with our decision but please, let's stay on topic

I would say its more than just a few people.......more like most of a.net  Smile

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 111):
Management: Realize that most of those who post here are the sort of folks you'd pass on the street (maybe I should say in the airport) without batting an eye. We're everyday folks who happen to be very passionate about aviation. Except where absolutely necessary, try not to damp this passion. There have unquestionably been instances where management has gotten in the way of users with little or no justification.

I would like to add on this (hope thats ok Cubsrule)....Managment just remember there wouldn't be a managemt if it wasn't for the members of this site. Period You need us.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15058
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:08 pm



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 112):
Managment just remember there wouldn't be a managemt if it wasn't for the members of this site. Period You need us.

 checkmark And, like it or not, we need them.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:09 pm

This will be short and sweet - your words obviously mean nothing. You agreed to take down a defamatory posting, then back peddled and left it - no user would be allowed that activity. After blowing sunshine up everyone's ass about how criticism is welcome, you've not just banned, but deleted IFEMaster for his harsh, but accurate, critique of the situation. Every concrete action you taken since starting this thread is in direct opposition to what you wrote. Obviously, the only point of starting this thread was to appear to be interested and perhaps mollify some of the more vocal opponents to the obvious direction the site is taking.

I'd like to add and expand on Skidmark's excellent post, for those that quite haven't made the connection yet. The site has changed, DM has an agenda, which is their right, but all best realize it's incompatible with the former community that most originally joined A.net for. Nothing will change that, certainly not the input from users, and most definitely not these empty gestures at mollification. You as users have a choice, accept it and shut up, or leave. That's it - there is no discussion, there is no lobbying. Perhaps if DM had the honesty to actually say that we'd all be in a better place.

Regards,
Duane
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15058
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:32 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 111):
The fact that DM folks don't share this passion doesn't make them bad people or even necessarily mean that they can't manage this site effectively.

Paolo has asked me to point out that he, for one, DOES share a passion for aviation.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Halcyon
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:37 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 115):

Why did he have you tell us that? Why not just tell us himself. See, it's weird like that...why are there all these back channels? Can't DM handle their customers themselves? Or must they delete the unruly ones and try to get intermediaries for everything else?

Also, from your earlier post, many us have explained why we want things, such as a reason that Halls120 was outright deleted. Management ignores us, because they'd (As it appears.) rather purge the system of any dissent than make progress forward.

Remember, there are "80,000" users supposedly, most of whom are not active. Some of the highest respected ones, who people like myself hung around to see post, have either stopped posting or been outright deleted. ANC had the head PR person for DM make false, hurtful accusations, and for that what did he get? A ban. Nice...real professional. I wonder if he'll be deleted too?

You guys are making competition for yourselves. You're making people dislike you because of your inept management, and you're not learning from your mistakes. It's either terrible stupidity or a plan to excise the "rotten flesh." Either way, it's messy and poorly executed.
 
GPIARFF
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:36 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:48 pm



Quoting Halcyon (Reply 116):
Why did he have you tell us that? Why not just tell us himself. See, it's weird like that...why are there all these back channels? Can't DM handle their customers themselves? Or must they delete the unruly ones and try to get intermediaries for everything else?

Also, from your earlier post, many us have explained why we want things, such as a reason that Halls120 was outright deleted. Management ignores us, because they'd (As it appears.) rather purge the system of any dissent than make progress forward.

Remember, there are "80,000" users supposedly, most of whom are not active. Some of the highest respected ones, who people like myself hung around to see post, have either stopped posting or been outright deleted. ANC had the head PR person for DM make false, hurtful accusations, and for that what did he get? A ban. Nice...real professional. I wonder if he'll be deleted too?

You guys are making competition for yourselves. You're making people dislike you because of your inept management, and you're not learning from your mistakes. It's either terrible stupidity or a plan to excise the "rotten flesh." Either way, it's messy and poorly executed.

Spot on. Although I believe that the management is doing this on purpose, and not because they are inept. Take that for what is is worth.
Pa chiye ladan dlo ou bwe ( don't crap in your drinking water )
 
Halcyon
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:54 pm



Quoting GPIARFF (Reply 117):

I agree with you. If they aren't, then they must have personality disorders. The stuff that's happened is just too fantastic to be accidental.
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:39 pm

hmmmmmm

Well, i definatly aint fearful of posting so here goes.

There was another thread that got deleted, the poster posted in here, I replied and both have been taken away. I was under the impresson mods this thread was here to post about this kinda stuff, not have it taken away. I also for some reason only got a email for the post in here, not in the other thread.
Where does the time go???
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1989
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:43 pm

You're lucky. I'm the one who's thread and posts were deleted - and I haven't received squat! I got a PM from one of the mods asking if I received a deletion notice. That's it.

This is seriously spiraling out of control. The topic of this thread is about being fearful to post. I can't imagine a more appropriate place to air these grievances, since it is 100% on topic.
Look, it's been swell, but the swelling's gone down.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:51 pm



Quoting Trekster (Reply 119):
There was another thread that got deleted, the poster posted in here, I replied and both have been taken away. I was under the impresson mods this thread was here to post about this kinda stuff, not have it taken away. I also for some reason only got a email for the post in here, not in the other thread.

The thread that was removed was pointless. The thread starter has been informed as to the reason why. If a whole thread is removed only the thread starter receives a notification, not everyone who contributed to it.

That thread starter rehashed the removed thread in this thread. It was removed for the same reason as the original thread.
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:56 pm



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 121):
The thread that was removed was pointless

Why pointless?

Its also something thats been asked before (a while ago) and that thread was never deleted, so why this one?

Pointless in your eyes maybe, but not ours as it was a valid point and question.

Oh well.
Where does the time go???
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15058
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:05 am



Quoting Halcyon (Reply 116):
Why did he have you tell us that?

Well, he didn't. He simply stated that my assertion was incorrect, and I don't want factually incorrect assertions sitting uncorrected. I can't help you with why Paolo didn't simply correct me himself in the thread. If he consents, I'll be happy to post his entire PM detailing his passion about aviation here.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Halcyon
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:51 am



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 123):

See, he's being personal, but not to all his users...and stuff like that should be posted for all users to see. (Not everything he sent you, of course.)

Just my 2 cents.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15058
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:17 am



Quoting Halcyon (Reply 124):
See, he's being personal, but not to all his users...and stuff like that should be posted for all users to see.

Agreed, but it isn't my place. As I said before, with Paolo's consent, I'll gladly post his message to me. For now, suffice it to say that he asked me to make a change, I was unable to make that change as I wasn't within the editing time window, and I therefore posted Reply 115 (I realize that this contradicts what I said in Reply 123, but re-reading the PM, I have realized that he did request that I correct my statement).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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PA110
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RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:44 am



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 125):
As I said before, with Paolo's consent, I'll gladly post his message to me.

Ya know, enough of this... As Halcyon said, this is indicative of the problems the membership is having with this site. Why should we communicate by proxy? If he want's to share his passion of aviation with the members of this site, let him do it directly. Otherwise its all just noise.
Look, it's been swell, but the swelling's gone down.
 
Halcyon
Posts: 1622
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RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:05 am



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 125):

I can see where you're coming from...if you post it, you'll be cruising for a ban, especially if any of it was unprofessional or rude. Paulo, you need to take a break from reading and actually tell us how you feel!

Quoting PA110 (Reply 126):
If he want's to share his passion of aviation with the members of this site, let him do it directly. Otherwise its all just noise.

 checkmark 

Ask us to trust you based almost solely on words and then do things that ruin our trust... *sigh*
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15058
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:13 am



Quoting PA110 (Reply 126):
Why should we communicate by proxy?

I'm certainly not trying to be Paolo's proxy. I'm simply trying to correct a prior incorrect statement, a courtesy I would extend to any member.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:55 am



Quoting PA110 (Reply 120):
This is seriously spiraling out of control. The topic of this thread is about being fearful to post. I can't imagine a more appropriate place to air these grievances, since it is 100% on topic.

 checkmark 

No doubt......

I got a PM from Deeplight too - I don't know why he doesn't post in the thread.
 
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Moderator
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RE: Fearful Of Posting?

Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:02 pm



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 83):
Hi all,

I've received some really harsh but mostly constructive feedback from everyone so far. I feel we've covered all we can for productivity purposes. It's apparent how the members in this thread feel. We have an understanding of how the situation arose and we are trying to mend what we can for the future. If anyone has specific questions I'll try to answer them, yet I'd like to move forward versus have a continued battle of opinions or rediscuss every incident that occurred in the last 6 months.

My main goal for this thread was to allow people to voice their opinions and make positive change and moving forward is the only way this can be accomplished.

Next Steps:

1. The thread will be closed next Monday, 7/14 (timeline per a user's request)

2. I'll continue to answer questions but will focus on reading and discussing the plan with the mods so we get a solid plan, versus over discussing the past.
3. On Wednesday I'll post the plan after discussing with the mod team, 7/16
4. We can discuss again if necessary about the plan.
5. We can hopefully move forward with better, more open policies and processes for the community.


Thanks,

Monique

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