PanAm747
Topic Author
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Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:55 pm

In this day and age with computer memory space being a serious limiting factor, why do we have a non-aviation forum?

If people wish to spend their time complaining about candidates, issues, people, their likes and dislikes not related to aviation, then shouldn't they be on another website?

It strikes me as odd that in a pay site like this specifically devoted to aviation, my money is going to support something that has nothing to do with aviation at all.

Deleting the non-aviation forum would free up memory space and might allow the entire website to actually function smoother!

I'm not saying people aren't entitled to their opinions, but rather that using this site to express their hatreds/rants/raves about non-aviation topics is a waste of computer space, and a drain on our membership fees. It needs to go.

[Edited 2008-10-30 09:56:03]

[Edited 2008-10-30 09:56:20]

[Edited 2008-10-30 09:56:35]
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:43 pm

What strikes me as odd about this is, some of the most dedicated, most vocal users of this website seem to spend almost all of their time in Non-Av. It's almost an entirely different community.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Gofly
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:08 pm



Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
In this day and age with computer memory space being a serious limiting factor, why do we have a non-aviation forum?

With exciting times ahead for Airliners.net, cutting back on any features is not on the drawing board. The non-aviation forum is certainly not causing the site any problems in terms of memory space or any other functional problems - the Airliners.net servers have only recently been upgraded to better cope with our demand. We're also launching a database code rewrite in mid November which should iron out any small niggles in performance that we're experiencing.

Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
If people wish to spend their time complaining about candidates, issues, people, their likes and dislikes not related to aviation, then shouldn't they be on another website?

This is a valid point and one that has been raised before. There was a point where Johan closed / made the non-aviation forum avaliable to only First Class members - the result was uproar, the non-aviation forum is something the membership wants. See the following thread of one example of the feelings that were conveyed:

https://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...te_related/read.main/10994/#menu26

Another valid point is that the non-aviation forum helps make the aviation community here just that - a community. If you limit yourself to only aviation discussions, you can't fully appreciate the broad range of people and personalities that we have here; the non-aviation forum gives the community the chance to exchange views on subjects that aren't directly related to aviation - but these are still the views of a community of aviation fans. Nobody joins Airliners.net simply for the non-aviation forum; but it gives like-minded people a chance to come together to discuss general issues, which I'm sure you'll agree if beneficial for everybody.

Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
Deleting the non-aviation forum would free up memory space and might allow the entire website to actually function smoother!

As I have mentioned above, any niggles that we still have present should be solved with the database rewrite in mid November - which has little to do with memory space. You're basing your argument on a slightly misinformed point.

Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
I'm not saying people aren't entitled to their opinions, but rather that using this site to express their hatreds/rants/raves about non-aviation topics is a waste of computer space, and a drain on our membership fees. It needs to go.

If you feel you don't wish to use the non-aviation forum, you are in no way obliged to do so. We have numerous aviation forums - and only one non-aviation forum - and I would encourage you to post in these; many people choose not to post in non-aviation at all, as they are quite happy simply discussing aviation issues. The choice is always there for our members; there is no obligation to post in all, or even any, of our forums - although we would, of course, encourage people to participate in a broad range of topics.

You have to remember, what you may consider 'a drain on your membership fees' and a 'waste of computer space' is what other people may consider a useful part of the community. This, of course, works both ways as well - I'm sure there are things that you consider vital that other people would not consider important.

My advice, at this time, would be: if you don't like the non-aviation, don't feel you have to post in it. Instead, enjoy the numerous aviation forums on the site.

As ever, if you feel that there is content in any of the forums that is a 'waste of computer space', please bring it to the moderators attention by using the suggest deletion'function or by sending an email to [email protected]

Thanks,
-Gofly
Living the high life on my ex-Airliners.net Moderator pension...
 
PanAm747
Topic Author
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:20 pm

Gofly, that has to be the most well-written post I have EVER seen here!! You intelligently responded to everyone of my questions in a logical, concise, and unemotional way...two big thumbs WAY up!!

I know when there was the transfer of airliners.net to the new server, there had been issues of memory space - not to mention the occasional tirade by posters in the past of "quit using up the valuable memory space here!!" for certain things. I am delighted to learn that memory space isn't an issue anymore.

I agree that more communication is always a good thing, and my point about the necessity of non-aviation on an aviation site certainly pertains more to my horror at the lack of "intelligent discourse" going, if the people running a.net feel it is necessary and is not a drain on the operations of the other forums, then by all means, keep it. I have no desire to visit there again, but it if is being used by paying members and isn't affecting operations elsewhere, then by all means, keep it!!
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
David L
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:25 pm



Quoting Gofly (Reply 2):

 checkmark  Yeah, what Gofly said.

Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
In this day and age with computer memory space being a serious limiting factor

Compared to which day and age?  Smile
 
srbmod
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:43 pm



Quoting Gofly (Reply 2):
There was a point where Johan closed / made the non-aviation forum avaliable to only First Class members - the result was uproar, the non-aviation forum is something the membership wants. See the following thread of one example of the feelings that were conveyed:

https://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...enu26

I remember this quite well. It started off with it being a First Class Members Only Forum, which lasted a short time, as many of the Non-Av regulars were not First Class Members and simply refused to upgrade to it. There were many threads in many of the forums where folks started to complain about the situation in a not so positive tone. There were members that used this is an opportunity to insult Johan, and as a result, some folks were banned from the site. This is when the decision was made to close Non-Av completely until a solution was worked up. The "warning" message was pretty much the solution.

Non-Av is not going anywhere anytime soon. Pretty much all of the other forums I post on (none of them aviation-related) have some form of a forum similar to our Non-Av Forum. Many sites have such a forum in order to keep those sorts of threads/posts out of other forums.
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:52 pm

I love the Main Aviation Forum. I can catch up on everything going on. But sometimes If I want to hear something besides aviation I go there. Sure some of our topics aren't always the greatest but its fun. You can learn a lot of things going on. Many of the things you may read might be something that happened in Japan and you don't see that here in the US. The community is very diverse and through the Non-Av fourms we can see what is going on in other places.
Blue
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
sasd209
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:30 am

I am a SuperMod on an automotive forum and the area with the most new posts and views is: the Off Topic area. As Gofly said, it fosters the sense of community. It's kinda nice sometimes to hang out and chat about non-auto (or non-av) things and get to know the folks on the forum. We've had our share of issues with the area, but good Moderation and member help has allowed us to keep it amid some voices advocating its closure.

SASD209
 
Elite
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:09 am

The main focus of the website is still aviation, but we still need a non-aviation forum just to chill out and discuss other things. Most - if not all - major forums have a off topic section where they can discuss whatever they want. And there is a lot of valuable discussion in the non aviation forum . . . it would be a shame to see non av removed.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:25 am

I guess there are many forums out here which include the Non-Aviation forum.If it was not needed,it would not get posts in it.
everyone has a choice to choose the forum one would like to post in......
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Gofly
Posts: 1578
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:10 pm



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
occasional tirade by posters in the past of "quit using up the valuable memory space here!!"

You'll get to see a lot of those comments around Airliners.net and other forums; it's usually just an indication of a low quality post and rarely has anything to do with actual memory space - an internet colloquialism, if you will...  Wink

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
certainly pertains more to my horror at the lack of "intelligent discourse"

As I said before, we try to foster a high quality of posting in the forums; if you ever do come across anything that you feel shouldn't be there, please bring it to the moderators' attention by using the suggest deletion function - I can't stress this enough, it's an invaluable tool to the community.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 5):
I remember this quite well. It started off with it being a First Class Members Only Forum, which lasted a short time, as many of the Non-Av regulars were not First Class Members and simply refused to upgrade to it. There were many threads in many of the forums where folks started to complain about the situation in a not so positive tone.

Srbmod sums up perfectly what happened when non-aviation was closed for a short period. That, combined with the responses in this thread, would indicate that the membership do find it a useful and productive forum to have.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
and is not a drain on the operations of the other forums, then by all means, keep it. I have no desire to visit there again, but it if is being used by paying members and isn't affecting operations elsewhere, then by all means, keep it!!

The non-aviation forum certainly isn't causing any of the other forums any problems or draining our resources, I can assure you - even if it does keep the moderators busy sometimes!

Thanks for bringing up the issue, it's always nice to have a discussion and see the feedback from various members when points are raised.

Thanks,
-Gofly
Living the high life on my ex-Airliners.net Moderator pension...
 
MarSciGuy
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:16 pm



Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):

It strikes me as odd that in a pay site like this specifically devoted to aviation, my money is going to support something that has nothing to do with aviation at all.

I can tell you from my own experience I am a fan but that's it of aviation - I don't have a career even remotely closely related to aviation, no real serious interest in trying to work in the industry or be a pilot of any sort (aviation-wise that is) BUT I do like to keep up with the information the "in-the-know" aviation buffs disperse on this forum. As a result of my lack of technical knowledge/experience and the fact that I fly maybe 10 times a year when I'm the most mobile I stick to posting in the Non-Av and Hobbyist forums nearly exclusively. I enjoy keeping up with the day to day tidings of the industry but if the site somehow got rid of the Non-Av forum or made it a 1st class membership privelege (which I can't afford and have no need for the improvements over Premium anyhow) I'd disengage entirely I think. So I'm quite happy with the way things are at the current time myself  Wink


...retreats to the boat before I get hollered at for being an aviation infidel...
"There weren't a ton of gnats there where a ton of gnats and their families as well!"
 
NIKV69
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:56 pm



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 1):
It's almost an entirely different community.

You don't know how right you are Ryan.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
luv2cattlecall
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:47 am



Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
In this day and age with computer memory space being a serious limiting factor, why do we have a non-aviation forum?

Just did some very rough math...and figured that the entirety of a.net, excluding photos, could be stored on about $45 worth of hard drive space - about 9 months of 1 member's F membership dues! - How is it becoming a limiting factor?

Mods, you have my permission to use my a.net fees for the next 9 months in order to purchase whatever storage capacity necessary to keep some astroglide on the intertubes - feel free to keep the change if you get an even better deal on Black Friday!  biggrin 
.
 
ghostbase
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:06 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 8):
Most - if not all - major forums have a off topic section where they can discuss whatever they want.

Historically I am not a great fan of Non-Av and a while back would have prefered to see it removed from A.Net due to numerous poor quality postings and the depressing endless and pointless bickering which went on and on and on. Still, Elite makes a fair point, many other major forums do have thriving off topic sections which add value and crucially help to involve 'non involved' people and that has to be a good thing. The crucial factor seems to be the quality and transparency of the moderation team and that is something that has quietly got much better here over the past year or two  Smile

This is not always the case across aviation forums though, there are still several rogue sites such as a UK based one loosely connected with 'airshows' where the management and moderation standards are so incredibly poor that they do little except drag aviation enthusiasts down into the gutter  crying 

 ghost 
"I chase my dreams but I never seem to arrive"
 
DingDong
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:24 am



Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
In this day and age with computer memory space being a serious limiting factor, why do we have a non-aviation forum?

Er, uh... pardon my late entry into this thread - just noticed as I don't frequent this forum, I'm afraid.  Smile

But as someone who's been around the block more than a few times with technology, I can confidently say that 'memory' is not at all a limiting factor.

In fact, we're living in the era of cheap and plentiful memory and disk space.

'Tight' would have had described computing in the '60s or '70s (or the early '80s), where we were counting bytes. Today? We're counting in billions to trillions of bytes -- and that's just for the common stuff. Even today's storage costs cents on the dollar (or your favourite currency).

I don't personally have any use for non-Av, but didn't quite agree with your interesting assertion.  Smile
DingDong, honey, please answer the doorbell!
 
sovietjet
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:21 am

Pretty much every major forum on the net has an off-topic forum. And it ALWAYS gets a lot of views/replies.

Quoting SASD209 (Reply 7):
We've had our share of issues with the area, but good Moderation and member help has allowed us to keep it amid some voices advocating its closure.

I imagine evolutionm can have a pretty rough OT sometimes  Silly . I'm basing this on how the NASIOC OT is where I spend a good chunk of time hehe
 
SpeedBirdA380
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:02 am

I think the Non -Aviation forum is a great idea.

The Non Aviation forum gives people who know each other through this website a chance to discuss things other than Aviation.

As much as I love Aeroplanes this site would be a much less interesting place without a forum to talk about non-aviation related topics.
 
j_hallgren
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:03 am

I joined some yrs ago when it was free and thus am grandfathered in (which I much appreciate!) as i needed some info about flights and such...and I have a interest in aviation but don't consider myself as a fanatic or nut, just a avg guy who goes to airshows and such.

I now use the non-AV forums mostly as I find it interesting to discuss various topics, and the AV forum seems to be way too detailed for me, plus as I no longer fly at all due to personal situation, so non-AV is the place that makes this site valuable to me.
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
ronglimeng
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:44 pm

I think I came here for the Civil Aviation forum, but then signed on after I decided I'd like to post a Trip Report. It was a while before I looked into the Non-Av forum.

But that's where I spend most of my time now and it is where I feel I got my money's worth many times over.

What I like about it, is that everybody can be assumed to have a basic interest in aviation so we are talking with people we have some commonality with, regardless of what else we differ on.
 
MD-90
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:24 am



Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
why do we have a non-aviation forum?

Because you don't want to see what Civ Av would become without it. And I speak from experience.
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:28 am

In addition to the many reasins mentiones, I'd like to add that although I love aviation and aviation photography, and that is the reason why I paid to join a.net, I use the aviation forums for information and learning. There are maaaaany here that work in the industry ir at least know a lot about aviation in general, and honestly I feel I am more of a student by reading the forums. Sometimes I will post, but only when I know I'll make sense  Wink

Therefore, the non-av is the place where anyone can post and get to know eachother. IMO non-av, with all its pro's and con's is a huge part of this site and it would be a shame to have it shut.

just my 2c
 Smile
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:29 am

Isn't non-av where the a-net lonely souls practice their pick up lines on the 3 female members of the community?

Frankly, they probably need the practice. I say keep it.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:51 am

Non-Av is about the only exciting forum on a.net these days. Let it remain.  fluffy 
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Necessity Of The Non-Av Forum?

Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:48 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):

Non-Av is about the only exciting forum on a.net these days. Let it remain.

Guess you've not visted Tech/ops ever  wink 
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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