Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
alberchico
Posts: 3244
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:41 pm

JohnKrist wrote:
You all need to calm down, enough with the DM and Airliners bashing.
This is an aviation site, not a matter of life and death. We have always had a high standard in the posts on Airliners, but now it seems everything goes. Hatred towards DM and it's owners, the developers and us, the volunteers. Why do you all think that this is acceptable all of a sudden?

Quit the crap already!

We are trying to improve a site that we have taken flak for not updating. Now we have updated it, and v1 has been presented. So you are not satisfied? Well we listen to you, and are working on v2.

So, think through your behaviour in here, don't be disrespectful and be friendly. We are doing this for you!


The anger is directed at DM, not the moderators. If they had gathered input on what people wanted for the new site, like a survey sent out to first class members, there would be no need for a version 2.0 . And the sad truth is that DM badly screwed up the relaunch of this site.
Period. So they fully deserve the flak that they are getting.....
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
User avatar
trevisan26
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:31 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:22 am

Overview images are not linked correctly.

Wrong link displayed all over the site in last 24h, search engine, etc
https://www.airliners.net/photo///2838231
Correct link:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/-/-/2838231

Cheers
 
User avatar
s.p.a.s.
Posts: 944
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 2:04 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:42 am

I think most of the posts on 17 pages express exactly my feelings about this huge mess DM made on the upgrade (downgrade, actually) of our beloved a.net.

So, I created this online petition to make clear to DM what we want...

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/brin ... et-website

Bring back the old a.net site...

Cheers
"ad astra per aspera"
 
User avatar
Kaphias
Posts: 714
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:29 am

Re:

Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:54 am

Moose135 wrote:
So, am I logged in or not?

Image

ETA: I was able to post this, so apparently I am, but what does the other one do? When I've clicked on it, it takes me to a sign in screen, which, as reported above, takes you back to the front page of the site, rather than where I had been.

The upper login appears to be for the photo website, while the bottom appears to be for the forum. Sometimes the system logs me out of one but not the other. It's annoying but understandable that the two are not better integrated.
 
User avatar
3rdGen
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:19 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:40 am

My 2 cents. This is not an upgrade at all. The old site was much better. No offense but the new site looks like you've used a template from a blog site.

The old site had amazing character. It was laid out very nicely. When I view a photo I have to scroll all the way down to view the photo information, in the old site all the information I needed was in one small box, it was excellent. Same for the forum.

Seriously guys please go back to the old site. this doesn't look cool at all.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Community Manager
Posts: 4098
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:21 am

trevisan26 wrote:
Overview images are not linked correctly.

Wrong link displayed all over the site in last 24h, search engine, etc
https://www.airliners.net/photo///2838231
Correct link:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/-/-/2838231

Cheers


Hi Triago

That's being worked on as part of the queue fix your shot was deliberately used from the queue to see if the fix had worked which it hasn't but it is being worked on.

Thanks

Paul
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15453
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:46 am

I would like to see a slightly larger, 'bolder' and more contrasting font standard in the forums like this or a size between the standard and the next size larger.
I would also like to be able to choose backgrounds colors, for some with certain eye problems, the current style may be impossible to read.
 
RottenRay
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:43 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:54 am

JohnKrist wrote:
You all need to calm down, enough with the DM and Airliners bashing.
This is an aviation site, not a matter of life and death. We have always had a high standard in the posts on Airliners, but now it seems everything goes. Hatred towards DM and it's owners, the developers and us, the volunteers. Why do you all think that this is acceptable all of a sudden?

Quit the crap already!

We are trying to improve a site that we have taken flak for not updating. Now we have updated it, and v1 has been presented. So you are not satisfied? Well we listen to you, and are working on v2.

So, think through your behaviour in here, don't be disrespectful and be friendly. We are doing this for you!


Wow. Just wow.

You guys roll a well-established specialty site into an OPEN SOURCE (free) bbs script using a very amateurish adaptation of a generic skin with numerous database errors and security issues, AND THEN GET MAD AT LONG-STANDING USERS WHO PAID MEMBERSHIP FEES when they complain about it.

John, think through your behaviour in here, don't be disrespectful TO THE VERY PEOPLE WHO MADE THIS SITE VIABLE AND SUCCESSFUL.

Regarding "we are doing this for you," I don't remember anyone asking for a generic low-contrast layout, or having their real names made available, or giving up the numerous features that have been lost.

To most folks, this upgrade seems more like "doing it TO them" instead of FOR them.

How this heap made it out of some sort of beta is beyond me. Why it took so long to get here is also beyond me.

The only constructive criticism I have for DM and the developers at this point is simple: watch Alexa for the next 6 months, and hope that your advertising affiliate managers aren't.

Cheers!
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:57 am

Has the traffic to the forum gone down? I feel so, as the number of posts in a day seem very less compared to pre-upgrade. Earlier, there would be so much more posts on the forum. Now, it seems its like a quarter of that after upgrade.
 
bsbisland
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:45 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:58 am

I have been a member since 2005, visiting this forum nearly every day and have been extremely disappointed with this huge downgrade a.net had. Now it is simply unpleasant and confusing reading the forum and topics. I hope there is a possibility of bringing the old site back.
 
User avatar
alberchico
Posts: 3244
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:27 am

blrsea wrote:
Has the traffic to the forum gone down? I feel so, as the number of posts in a day seem very less compared to pre-upgrade. Earlier, there would be so much more posts on the forum. Now, it seems its like a quarter of that after upgrade.


It's not just you that has that feeling. Traffic has gone WAY down since the new site unveiling.

Image
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Community Manager
Posts: 4098
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:45 am

alberchico wrote:
It's not just you that has that feeling. Traffic has gone WAY down since the new site unveiling.


Actually it's quite stable

Regards

Paul
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
User avatar
Ytraveller
Posts: 1287
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:47 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:40 am

I'm fine with the upgrade. Great to see various functions start working like the search and bold/italicize/underline. Also like the notification system. Nice that DM is actively working on the site now and implementing changes, I wonder where they were all these years since the takeover?

Still, can't wait for the old color scheme to come back!
 
User avatar
johnr
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:46 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:49 am

I don't know about traffic to the forums but if you look at the photos traffic has been dropping for some time. As an example the KLM orange 777 had about 30 thousand views here but over at this sites nearest competition it's got over 108 thousand. Attitudes from this website have been getting a little arrogant these last couple of years.
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Community Manager
Posts: 4098
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:27 am

johnr wrote:
I don't know about traffic to the forums but if you look at the photos traffic has been dropping for some time. As an example the KLM orange 777 had about 30 thousand views here but over at this sites nearest competition it's got over 108 thousand.


It's a global aviation community and fair play to them even though it came in when we were offline and we accepted it later.

Attitudes from this website have been getting a little arrogant these last couple of years.


No arrogance intended unless one views rejections as arrogance
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
User avatar
johnr
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:46 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:31 am

Rejections of opinions is certainly arrogance.
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Community Manager
Posts: 4098
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:43 am

johnr wrote:
Rejections of opinions is certainly arrogance.


I'm not rejecting opinions but welcoming them especially now that we're relying on the communities feedback to resolve their concerns.

Regards

Paul
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
AlphaBravo
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 9:54 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:49 am

airkas1 wrote:
AlphaBravo wrote:
canyonblue17 wrote:
Where did the photo upload que go?


Also missing the que. :-(

Some of my queued photos are not screened yet. Even they should be on turn now (uploaded 9 or 10 days ago).

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1335403

For now, screening is suspended except for some crew images (to keep the homepage populated). These images will be deleted once we can resume normal screening.

When the normal screening process will continue?
Still waiting for a accept or reject mail.
Thx.
 
User avatar
AirlineCritic
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:30 am

There are significant issues.

However, I'd like to argue that an upgrade of the underlying framework and system was badly needed.
 
User avatar
Kaphias
Posts: 714
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:29 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:35 am

AirlineCritic wrote:
There are significant issues.

However, I'd like to argue that an upgrade of the underlying framework and system was badly needed.

Yes!! Upgrade is an understatement, it needed to be redone from the ground up, which I assume was done. It's a minor miracle that with such a transition, there were not more issues moving over the forum and photo databases. Huge kudos to crew and DM staff for doing that successfully.
 
Dreamflight767
Posts: 497
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:43 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:43 am

JohnKrist wrote:
You all need to calm down, enough with the DM and Airliners bashing.
This is an aviation site, not a matter of life and death. We have always had a high standard in the posts on Airliners, but now it seems everything goes. Hatred towards DM and it's owners, the developers and us, the volunteers. Why do you all think that this is acceptable all of a sudden?

Quit the crap already!

We are trying to improve a site that we have taken flak for not updating. Now we have updated it, and v1 has been presented. So you are not satisfied? Well we listen to you, and are working on v2.

So, think through your behaviour in here, don't be disrespectful and be friendly. We are doing this for you!



Quit the crap!? Screw that & your poor attitude.

I've been coming to this website for close to 15 years everyday COUNTLESS times a day. I paid money to be a member of this site. I paid money for internet access when I was in the middle-of-nowhere village on the single computer dial-up internet service to get caught up. Numerous nights comprising bedtime so I could look and read "just a little more" when I could have been like other kids out drinking, getting drugged up or busted by cops - instead I stayed home with airlines.net.

Whether to educate or be educated, further and developed my career, to get excited, to follow a hobby I'm passionate about, to be among peers who share and understand a love for aviation, to be inspired, to learn about aviation's future, to read stories of history and memories, to seek answers and explanation when disaster strikes, and become memorized when I discover someone's talent has captured a graceful, powerful, moving, image of airplanes from parts of the world that I'm not able to travel which detail elements that aren't visible to the naked the eye and are frequently blocked by security fences, walls, signs, and barricades.

And you expect me (and others) to just roll over? Maybe, before trying to "improve" the site YOURSELVES, you coulda done some research. So now deal with the consequences of your decision.

You and DM have some nerve. It's taking every bit of strength for me not to lay into you guys with a bombardment of descriptive terms and phrases summarizing your (four letter word) poor "service", disconnection from users, and incompetence.

You've ruined an old, reliable friend, whom for some helped shaped their lives. So yeah, it is life or death.
Last edited by Dreamflight767 on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
JohnKrist
Head Support
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:54 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:47 am

RottenRay wrote:
Wow. Just wow.

You guys roll a well-established specialty site into an OPEN SOURCE (free) bbs script using a very amateurish adaptation of a generic skin with numerous database errors and security issues, AND THEN GET MAD AT LONG-STANDING USERS WHO PAID MEMBERSHIP FEES when they complain about it.

John, think through your behaviour in here, don't be disrespectful TO THE VERY PEOPLE WHO MADE THIS SITE VIABLE AND SUCCESSFUL.

Regarding "we are doing this for you," I don't remember anyone asking for a generic low-contrast layout, or having their real names made available, or giving up the numerous features that have been lost.

To most folks, this upgrade seems more like "doing it TO them" instead of FOR them.

How this heap made it out of some sort of beta is beyond me. Why it took so long to get here is also beyond me.

The only constructive criticism I have for DM and the developers at this point is simple: watch Alexa for the next 6 months, and hope that your advertising affiliate managers aren't.

Cheers!


I did not in any way tell you to stop complaining, I asked you to quit the bashing of DM, Airliners and crew. Complain about the looks, functions etc, that we do listen to and take action on. Even if the colour issue has been repeated 100 times we have no issue with that, it clearly shows the love for how Airliners looked, and we can get it through to management with some serious weight Behind.
What I wrote was directed to posts about how much DM sucks, about us in crew and developers, hateful posts that serves no purpose in the further development of the site.
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
trav110
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:49 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:02 am

This new site design is awful. The forums look like any other sites forums, they are all jumbled and the way everything is laid out on mobile looks absolutely atrocious. I can't even remember the last time I accessed a.net from a computer and now it is practically unusable since my phone is my primary mode of accessing the internet.
 
User avatar
JohnKrist
Head Support
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:54 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:03 am

Dreamflight767 wrote:

Quit the crap!? Screw that & your poor attitude.


This is exactly what I mean...
And to quote myself:
JohnKrist wrote:
I did not in any way tell you to stop complaining, I asked you to quit the bashing of DM, Airliners and crew. Complain about the looks, functions etc, that we do listen to and take action on. Even if the colour issue has been repeated 100 times we have no issue with that, it clearly shows the love for how Airliners looked, and we can get it through to management with some serious weight Behind.
What I wrote was directed to posts about how much DM sucks, about us in crew and developers, hateful posts that serves no purpose in the further development of the site.
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
User avatar
airkas1
Posts: 7904
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:01 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:08 am

AlphaBravo wrote:
When the normal screening process will continue?
Still waiting for a accept or reject mail.
Thx.


Should be continued today.
 
jeffrey0032j
Posts: 881
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:11 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:16 am

Has anyone noticed that you can't do a cross data search for photos anymore?
 
User avatar
EYKD
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:49 pm

Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:30 am

PanAm_DC10 wrote:
alberchico wrote:
It's not just you that has that feeling. Traffic has gone WAY down since the new site unveiling.


Actually it's quite stable

Regards

Paul


Stable does not equal to high. Stable low traffic is "stable" yet still low.
Last edited by EYKD on Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
JohnKrist
Head Support
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:54 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:43 am

jeffrey0032j wrote:
Has anyone noticed that you can't do a cross data search for photos anymore?

You can, and the answer can be found in the New Site FAQ
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Community Manager
Posts: 4098
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

Re:

Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:52 am

Stable does not equal to high. Stable low traffic is "stable" yet still low.


I'll grant you that but it will pick up as we address community concerns and people become used to the new look and the stable numbers are still pretty high.

Regards

Paul
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 3768
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:02 am

AirlineCritic wrote:
There are significant issues.

However, I'd like to argue that an upgrade of the underlying framework and system was badly needed.

If the underlying framework of my house needed attention and the builder decided to render my house and change the windows I'd be more than a little pissed off.
was badly needed
and badly it was indeed done.

Fred
Image
 
Scorpio
Posts: 5046
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:13 am

JohnKrist wrote:
This is exactly what I mean...


Aren't you a.net's PR guy? Imagine the PR department of any major company telling their customers to 'cut the crap'. Won't happen, and that' s for a reason.

You (and by that I mean DM and A.net) screwed up with this upgrade. Royally. Suck it up, do everything you can to save the ship, and take the criticism, no matter how harsh and personal it may sometimes be, on the chin. And it really hasn't been all that personal on here, most people have been really nice about it.

As a PR guy you should NEVER escalate a situation where someone says something that hurts your feelings by responding telling them to 'cut the crap' or anything like that. It's extremely unprofessional, and gives the users a VERY bad impression of the crew. Take it on the chin, tell those who complain, and those who say something you don't like that you're sorry they feel that way, and are doing everything you can to fix the problems. Even apologise. Your company screwed up, you're their PR guy, you're their mouthpiece. The VERY last thing users here want to read after the company screwed this 'upgrade' up as badly as it did is the PR guy telling them they need to stop attacking the company.

Fix the problems, and the bitching will stop. Tell the users to stop the bitching, and it'll continue and get worse. As you're seeing here.

And don't respond to this. Learn from it instead.
 
User avatar
LatAmFlyer
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:48 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:15 am

JohnKrist wrote:
RottenRay wrote:

I did not in any way tell you to stop complaining, I asked you to quit the bashing of DM, Airliners and crew. Complain about the looks, functions etc, that we do listen to and take action on. Even if the colour issue has been repeated 100 times we have no issue with that, it clearly shows the love for how Airliners looked, and we can get it through to management with some serious weight Behind.
What I wrote was directed to posts about how much DM sucks, about us in crew and developers, hateful posts that serves no purpose in the further development of the site.


DM is fair game here. Make a solid case that 98% of the members want to have the old site back, because it's true. Not only might the old site return, but the designers would be relieved of all this chatter, confusion and anger. Why must DM insist on making things difficult for you and themselves? They can't be this dense.
 
User avatar
JohnKrist
Head Support
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:54 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:27 am

LatAmFlyer wrote:
JohnKrist wrote:
RottenRay wrote:

I did not in any way tell you to stop complaining, I asked you to quit the bashing of DM, Airliners and crew. Complain about the looks, functions etc, that we do listen to and take action on. Even if the colour issue has been repeated 100 times we have no issue with that, it clearly shows the love for how Airliners looked, and we can get it through to management with some serious weight Behind.
What I wrote was directed to posts about how much DM sucks, about us in crew and developers, hateful posts that serves no purpose in the further development of the site.


DM is fair game here. Make a solid case that 98% of the members want to have the old site back, because it's true. Not only might the old site return, but the designers would be relieved of all this chatter, confusion and anger. Why must DM insist on making things difficult for you and themselves? They can't be this dense.


Because the old site was broken, as easy as that. And nothing is fair game...
Last edited by JohnKrist on Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
User avatar
JohnKrist
Head Support
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:54 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:30 am

Scorpio wrote:
JohnKrist wrote:
This is exactly what I mean...


Aren't you a.net's PR guy? Imagine the PR department of any major company telling their customers to 'cut the crap'. Won't happen, and that' s for a reason.

You (and by that I mean DM and A.net) screwed up with this upgrade. Royally. Suck it up, do everything you can to save the ship, and take the criticism, no matter how harsh and personal it may sometimes be, on the chin. And it really hasn't been all that personal on here, most people have been really nice about it.

As a PR guy you should NEVER escalate a situation where someone says something that hurts your feelings by responding telling them to 'cut the crap' or anything like that. It's extremely unprofessional, and gives the users a VERY bad impression of the crew. Take it on the chin, tell those who complain, and those who say something you don't like that you're sorry they feel that way, and are doing everything you can to fix the problems. Even apologise. Your company screwed up, you're their PR guy, you're their mouthpiece. The VERY last thing users here want to read after the company screwed this 'upgrade' up as badly as it did is the PR guy telling them they need to stop attacking the company.

Fix the problems, and the bitching will stop. Tell the users to stop the bitching, and it'll continue and get worse. As you're seeing here.

And don't respond to this. Learn from it instead.


No, I am not a PR guy, I am Head Support, and I try to deliver answers to your queries. For that I do not need to accept ANY of the hostility shown here.
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
zkeye
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:05 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:41 am

JohnKrist, my second piece of advice to you today is this - just stop posting. Clearly you are too emotionally involved in the disaster that is the "upgrade" to respond rationally. You are making things worse and not not better with your current responses. As I said earlier if you think telling your clients to stop whining because they don't like your product then you will soon end up with no clients.
Bring out the gimp
 
User avatar
JohnKrist
Head Support
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:54 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:52 am

zkeye wrote:
JohnKrist, my second piece of advice to you today is this - just stop posting. Clearly you are too emotionally involved in the disaster that is the "upgrade" to respond rationally. You are making things worse and not not better with your current responses. As I said earlier if you think telling your clients to stop whining because they don't like your product then you will soon end up with no clients.


I have said no such thing, I haven't even used the term whining. Please read my posts again.
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
Scorpio
Posts: 5046
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:05 am

JohnKrist wrote:
No, I am not a PR guy, I am Head Support, and I try to deliver answers to your queries. For that I do not need to accept ANY of the hostility shown here.


Sure you are in PR. You're talking to the users, and representing the company. That's PR, whether you like it or not. And the way you're behaving is making things worse, not better.

You think you don't need to accept 'any' of the hostility shown here, well we don't think we have to accept being addressed by the representatives of the site like that. Much of the increasing hostility here is a DIRECT result of the way YOU are communicating here. You're escalating things, and you don't seem to realise it.

Do you want the hostility to stop? Stop responding the way you are responding now, and fix the problems, and it'll go away. It's that simple.
 
cx777fan
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:22 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:11 am

Another disgruntled voice to add to the echo chamber

1: The forums are really really hard on the eye (and scroll pad) for all the reasons already mentioned. After about 15 minutes I need to leave the site and rest my eyes. Problem is, I'm not tending to navigate back which kind of sucks for the advertisers that now get so much page real estate.

2: The front page is an ugly, blocky mess. The 747 banner of the old site was emblemic. The fact that it's gone is really quite metaphorical of the new owner's generic approach to the site

3: Please bring back the photo quizzes!!!! :P

4: Getting into a slinging match with your members who complain - whether constructively or not - is a very very bad look. DM truly do sound like a pretty vile company and it's unfortunate that our beloved community is now owned by such an organisation. It's truly astounding that there was no user acceptance beta-testing or soft roll out of this new site, let alone notification that it was coming.

5: What's with that grey transparent box that pops up at the top of the page when navigating to a new page each time?

6: Another confused user when it comes to the orange portion of the grey bar at the top of each forum post...does it serve a function or is it just a design embellishment? (Sack your designer if the latter!)

Other aviation sites have been getting a lot more of my time and traffic this past week. Until a.net returns to some semblance of user-friendliness and member-focus, I expect that will continue.


edited to add #5 and #6
Last edited by cx777fan on Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19435
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:12 am

Guys, some of you need to accept a simple fact. The old site is gone, it isn't coming back. Ever. It was fundamentally broken in more ways than most members appreciated.

What we have is what we have. I have no doubt the issues will be fixed and we'll soon be seeing the familiar airliners.net blue colours. The new site will be better than the old site. Yes, it will be different, but it will be better.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
airkas1
Posts: 7904
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:01 am

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:15 am

cx777fan wrote:
Another disgruntled voice to add to the echo chamber

1: The forums are really really hard on the eye (and scroll pad) for all the reasons already mentioned. After about 15 minutes I need to leave the site and rest my eyes. Problem is, I'm not tending to navigate back which kind of sucks for the advertisers that now get so much page real estate.

2: The front page is an ugly, blocky mess. The 747 banner of the old site was emblemic. The fact that it's gone is really quite metaphorical of the new owner's generic approach to the site

3: Please bring back the photo quizzes!!!! :P

4: Getting into a slinging match with your members who complain - whether constructively or not - is a very very bad look. DM truly do sound like a pretty vile company and it's unfortunate that our beloved community is now owned by such an organisation. It's truly astounding that there was no user acceptance beta-testing or soft roll out of this new site, let alone notification that it was coming.


1: The colors will change to the classic "A.net blue" before next is over.
2: No comment.
3: I would lvoe that as well, but if they're coming back, it'll be low priority right now (as I hope you'll understand).
4: Agree regarding the arguments. One of you two please take the high road. It adds nothign and only leads to further aggrevation. Thanks.
 
User avatar
JohnKrist
Head Support
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:54 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:18 am

cx777fan wrote:
Another disgruntled voice to add to the echo chamber

1: The forums are really really hard on the eye (and scroll pad) for all the reasons already mentioned. After about 15 minutes I need to leave the site and rest my eyes. Problem is, I'm not tending to navigate back which kind of sucks for the advertisers that now get so much page real estate.

2: The front page is an ugly, blocky mess. The 747 banner of the old site was emblemic. The fact that it's gone is really quite metaphorical of the new owner's generic approach to the site

3: Please bring back the photo quizzes!!!! :P

4: Getting into a slinging match with your members who complain - whether constructively or not - is a very very bad look. DM truly do sound like a pretty vile company and it's unfortunate that our beloved community is now owned by such an organisation. It's truly astounding that there was no user acceptance beta-testing or soft roll out of this new site, let alone notification that it was coming.

5: What's with that grey transparent box that pops up at the top of the page when navigating to a new page each time?

6: Another confused user when it comes to the orange portion of the grey bar at the top of each forum post...does it serve a function or is it just a design embellishment? (Sack your designer if the latter!)

Other aviation sites have been getting a lot more of my time and traffic this past week. Until a.net returns to some semblance of user-friendliness and member-focus, I expect that will continue.


edited to add #5 and #6


1 and 2 are being adressed by the developers
3 I hope that too
4 I just wish the discussion was about the site and functionality, not the individuals behind it
5 I have seen that too, noted
6 Probably design in the theme chosen, agree it looks strange, like something is loading. Have been noted
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
zkeye
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:05 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:33 am

JohnKrist wrote:
zkeye wrote:
JohnKrist, my second piece of advice to you today is this - just stop posting. Clearly you are too emotionally involved in the disaster that is the "upgrade" to respond rationally. You are making things worse and not not better with your current responses. As I said earlier if you think telling your clients to stop whining because they don't like your product then you will soon end up with no clients.


I have said no such thing, I haven't even used the term whining. Please read my posts again.


"We are trying to improve a site that we have taken flak for not updating. Now we have updated it, and v1 has been presented. So you are not satisfied? Well we listen to you, and are working on v2."

If you want to be semantic then maybe you have not used the word whining. However I stand by my comments. You are defending an absolute shambles and criticizing anyone who is unhappy with the outcome of this abortion. I am not sure how much flak mods took for the old site but I am damn sure no one wanted "v1" and any half professional outfit would have made sure that "v1" at least worked before releasing it. For you to get shitty at the criticism of what is without question an absolute mess is endemic of the problem.
Bring out the gimp
 
zkeye
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:05 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:35 am

Sorry - I should also add that it is not even your responsibility (as I understand it) so why you try to defend the indefensible escapes me.
Bring out the gimp
 
User avatar
JohnKrist
Head Support
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:54 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:40 am

zkeye wrote:
Sorry - I should also add that it is not even your responsibility (as I understand it) so why you try to defend the indefensible escapes me.


I'm not even sure what I am defending that is so out of line? I am defending that an upgrade was needed due to the old site being broken backend-wise. I have not defended the loss of our beloved 747, nor the colours or any other site related issue really too which I agree with all of you, I have mearly tried to explain why it is like it is in v1.
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
User avatar
Kiwiflyer
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:30 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:45 am

Sorry to say JohnKrist your overall approach has really not been that good or helpful. Telling users as Head Support to 'quit the crap' is not professional on any level. Rather than diffuse frustrations you have in fact escalated them. Rather than being empathetic you come across as almost tonal. Please consider this and rather than reacting consider whether another approach could work better.

If users are frustrated who can blame them. On the whole I think users have been most considerate and respectful, especially so given users' real names (mine included) were made public and copyright notices omitted. Really think about this. Think about how those actions alone have potentially compromised people and their future contributions to this site. Trust is one of the hardest things to build and trust has all but been eradicated here. In fact not only does this site exist because of users and their contributions, the users are now being relyed on to effectively be beta testers after the horse has well and truly bolted.

Additionally, one crew member/moderator had the audacity to 'sigh' when a user's only crime was to highlight an issue that had been highlighted previously. Perhaps this is an indication that the mods or whoever are getting as tired as we are of all the endless scrolling.

That one 'sigh' effectively summed up the arrogance and disrespect that has been exhibited towards users. The fact users are taking their valuable time to convey to you how to save this site shows their loyalty and dedication to an experience they hold dear to their hearts.

It's fortunate not every user has 'sighed' at the total incompetence that has been demonstrated with this site 'upgrade'. Some empathy could go a long way to help buy you time to sort this mess before more loyal and valuable contributors jump ship.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19435
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:48 am

JohnKrist wrote:
1 and 2 are being adressed by the developers


Let the 747 go. Let's join the 21st century! :D
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
zkeye
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:05 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:53 am

Kiwiflyer gets it.
Bring out the gimp
 
Theseus
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:35 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:01 am

After a few days with the new site, I see that the sparsity of the screen layout and constant need to scroll and click to get tiny bits of information that used to be presented in a synthetic fashion in a single display does really deter me from reading.

(1) I used to browse the civil aviation and technical ops fora several times per day and now come at most once;

(2) I would open a dozen of threads, browse their contents more or less quickly depending on their topic, and often check out posts from specific members to get a digest (depending on topic, and as I know who is often bringing the most relevant information and analyses), as that information was easily available; as it is now much more cumbersome to get that, I basically open just one that I am most interested in, and see my interest go down.


Is there a plan to organize the information in a less scattered fashion ?


Sure the old site was probably broken inside, but at least, from the user point of view, it was really giving an engineer's view to things (no unnecessarily large GUI things, and all the information people like to find readily available). It would be really great to get some of that old flavor back.

I mean, we have to just pause and see who is interested in the contents of this forum: people who have a passion for aeronautics. That includes pilots, FAs, airline op managers, engineers, and people with a taste for such technical matters. All sorts of aviation geeks, who are more interested in the data/information/picture than the GUI, and who value functionality more than look. It is no surprise such people are not so thrilled.
 
User avatar
JohnKrist
Head Support
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:54 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:02 am

scbriml wrote:
JohnKrist wrote:
1 and 2 are being adressed by the developers


Let the 747 go. Let's join the 21st century! :D

Hahaha no, she is still the Queen 21st century or not
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
User avatar
JohnKrist
Head Support
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:54 pm

Re: Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:07 am

Kiwiflyer, the Quit the crap comment was due to posts about DM, Developers and crew escalated to where DM's owners name was written in a post. That and other comments on here are totally unacceptable. So Quit the crap was probably not the best choice of words, apologies for that, but the essence of the post remains, keep it civil
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos