Airliners.net Site Upgrade Announcement & Discussion

Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:57 pm

jetcrazy wrote:
slinky09 wrote:

What are the alternatives - where are people's options now?

airfighters.com ...

No problem that this is just military. I´m already sick of those 737s and Airbuses.....

Well, we are called Airliners.net so airliners is kind of a thing here. Black/gray on white has been the norm for 4.000 years and still is the norm all over the internet, change will come...

What is the purpose of writing the same "this site is shit" posts over and over?

Johnv707 · Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:00 pm

Just my opinion:
Everyone needs to lighten up the complaining.
YES, the forums are harder to read and navigate, but they are still here, and changes have been promised. Complex changes cannot be implemented overnight without testing or there will be a bunch of new issues and new complaints.
YES, the photos are harder to find and there are issues with posting and watermarks, etc. But they are still here and again changes have been promised.
YES, there other issues that have been documented and noted.
There is a team of people giving freely of their time to moderate, track, and respond to the issues. They deserve our respect and thanks for working to make the site better. This has not been an easy transition for them, especially with some of the cruel and insulting comments that have been thrown at them. LETS KEEP THE SUGGESTIONS CONSTRUCTIVE AND CIVIL.

Overall I also do not care for the look and feel of the site, but I am willing to give it a chance to improve.

Johnv707 · Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:11 pm

JohnKrist wrote:
jetcrazy wrote:
slinky09 wrote:

What are the alternatives - where are people's options now?

airfighters.com ...

No problem that this is just military. I´m already sick of those 737s and Airbuses.....

Well, we are called Airliners.net so airliners is kind of a thing here. Black/gray on white has been the norm for 4.000 years and still is the norm all over the internet, change will come...

What is the purpose of writing the same "this site is shit" posts over and over?

AMEN!!

nilsu · Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:49 pm

I like the much improved readability on mobile devices. This is where I browse the forums 95% of the time. Not much to complain about the main site either. So personally I am happy with the new site / forums.

What I just found out is that I am allowed to post without beeing a paying member. Didn't know that has changed from when I last tried.

Mortyman · Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:20 pm

Where did all the information / encyclopædia on various aircraft go ?

ArmitageShanks · Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:16 am

Mortyman wrote:
Where did all the information / encyclopædia on various aircraft go ?

www.wikipedia.org is your friend.

No need to subject yourself to the ads.

ezola · Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:55 am

"Since 1995, Airliners.net has been the largest and most visited aviation site on the internet"

I used to spend hours on the site and gladly paid my yearly membership. The ad free, no watermark site was a joy to use. It was easy as pie to use a search criteria to generate a list of small pictures. If I liked them I could enlarge the first one, save it, and use the small images on the bottom of the page to move through the pictures, saving the ones I like WITHOUT having to go back to the original search page. It was pretty easy! I've downloaded over 95,000 of them. They make nice screensavers and keep my spotting skills sharp.

The new format stinks compared to the old one. Throw in all the ads which are horribly invasive and suck up huge amounts of memory and bandwidth AND the watermarks too.....and there is really little reason to spend time here.

I'm sad though, I really liked (even loved) the old site.

Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:13 am

First Class will be back once the major issues have been solved but I'm afraid that it can take a while as a new platform for handling that needs to be built.

PeterB · Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:24 am

I could have bet that the blue theme will be postponed. I knew it!

kulverstukas · Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:49 pm

lol moderators at work... posts referenced to other aviation photography sites now get removed. So one part of old A.net is back! :lol:

airkas1 · Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:55 pm

kulverstukas wrote:
lol moderators at work... posts referenced to other aviation photography sites now get removed. So one part of old A.net is back!

Your post was in poor taste and you should've known that. I flagged it.

Dreamflight767 · Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:11 am

If poor taste was truly of concern, why is it OK that the ads I'm seeing are of some chick sticking her a$s out wearing black lingerie with half her boob hanging out? Oh, I know, because DM makes money by asking me to find my next "Russian love".

I want to enjoy looking at airplane photos, not the crap your "management" tries to shove down my throat.

wingman · Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:39 am

Guys, I've given this new site up to this moment the benefit of the doubt and well past the time it should've taken to make the transition. I hate to say this but it well and truly sucks. On an iPhone the experience is excruciating. I've been here since almost the very beginning and I'm not sure how much tolerance I have left. The code work here is near Darwin Award territory, bordering on Power Point levels of incompetence. Sorry for the harsh words but goddamn guys...

mariner · Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:06 am

Dreamflight767 wrote:
If poor taste was truly of concern, why is it OK that the ads I'm seeing are of some chick sticking her a$s out wearing black lingerie with half her boob hanging out? Oh, I know, because DM makes money by asking me to find my next "Russian love".

I want to enjoy looking at airplane photos, not the crap your "management" tries to shove down my throat.

An ad blocker works for me. It's free and I don't see any ads.

mariner

HGL · Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:47 am

Mortyman wrote:
Where did all the information / encyclopædia on various aircraft go ?

At the very bottom of the page in the navigation footer is a link Aircraft Data. Try that.

airkas1 · Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:01 am

wingman wrote:
On an iPhone the experience is excruciating.

I actually find using the forum on my iPhone a lot better. I noticed I find myself visitng the A.net forums much more than before (on my phone).

Mortyman · Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:59 am

HGL wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Where did all the information / encyclopædia on various aircraft go ?

At the very bottom of the page in the navigation footer is a link Aircraft Data. Try that.

It would perhaps be a good idea to put it back on top where it belongs ? No point in making more annoying changes to the site than there really needs to be. A large number of members are not happy about the many changes as it is ....

airkas1 · Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:29 am

Mortyman wrote:
It would perhaps be a good idea to put it back on top where it belongs ? No point in making more annoying changes to the site than there really needs to be. A large number of members are not happy about the many changes as it is ....

There is an entry on the list that suggests replacing the "TOP 100" with the "Aircraft Data".

alberchico · Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:54 pm

Will the site have to be taken offline for the changes to be implemented ? Its supposed to be done this week right ?

ClassicLover · Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:38 pm

alberchico wrote:
Will the site have to be taken offline for the changes to be implemented ? Its supposed to be done this week right ?

Something is being done this week? I bloody well hope so. My daily a.net visit has been reduced to me looking at it in my favourites and doing something else, then steeling myself once every two or three days to come and look at the Irish thread. I can deal with anything, but this silver text on white is despicable. FlyerTalk has a white forum and it's fine, because you can actually read it!

mikeap · Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:40 pm

Sick, disgusting and perverted is the best way to describe this site. Looks like A.net hired "Millenials" and the web development team was corrupted.
Ever heard of the Peter Principle. Basically, you could have laid off your development team, and kept the old site, and made extra money. Instead, you had to justify their jobs and allowed them to work for the sake of working and this abortion of a website was born. I bet the founder is rolling over in his grave; utterly, utterly sad.

Well maybe you'll increase the number of 8-16-year-olds using iPads their parents bought them since that's the demographic you are apparently going for.

P.S. Does anyone else know where else we can go since Airliners.net is now dead. I'll add this site to the FlightGlobal bookmark in my bookmark category known as "Once great sites that were killed by web 2.0 Millenials".

mikeap · Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:45 pm

JohnKrist wrote:
First Class will be back once the major issues have been solved but I'm afraid that it can take a while as a new platform for handling that needs to be built.

Huh? You wouldn't have built this module BEFORE rolling out a new website? Yikes, sounds like you need a Project Manager in your web department. I wonder if Amazon would roll out a new website, and then take a while to build the login page, or the checkout page. Wowzers. Really?? Really??

Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:05 pm

As you obviously have not read this thread, and only come here to be rude I really shouldn't reply, but I do it anyway. First Class was not going to be an option anymore, so it was left out. However due to demand it will be re-introduced.

mikeap · Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:19 pm

That's a fair response. Although I don't come here only to be rude. I actually came to the website to do what I always have done for over 10 years, enjoy the site, but when I saw the new and worsened site, at first I thought maybe someone had hacked your site and was playing a joke. When I realized over a decade of fun had now gone up in smoke, I found my way to these message forums. Trust me, I wish way more than you wish, that I wasn't here right now doing what I'm doing, rather I wish nothing had changed. Sad sad day. This is the website's September 11th.

EA CO AS · Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:21 pm

JohnKrist wrote:
As you obviously have not read this thread, and only come here to be rude I really shouldn't reply, but I do it anyway. First Class was not going to be an option anymore, so it was left out. However due to demand it will be re-introduced.

And had Demand Media actually bothered to seek input or opinions from the users of this site, they'd have known that BEFORE the site rollout, eliminating the need for that option to be "re-introduced" later.

Among a few other things they'd have learned if, again, they'd bothered to ask the users.

So why isn't there a dedicated "What other options would you like to see?" thread here from DM or the admins? Maybe we can give you the input you never knew you needed without the added "You guys really effed up this site," feedback in the process, as is happening in this thread....

Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:40 pm

EA CO AS, personally I think that's a good idea, however I think that will have to come at a later stage. Doubt they are open for input while their chairs are on fire

Dreamflight767 · Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:40 pm

You ACTUALLY think I'd pay to be a first class member now!?

You've gotta be flippin' kidding me. This site has taken a HUGE un-measurable hit in quality, appearance, functionality, and there clearly is no customer service. Why in the hell would I pay to be a first class member!?

When I visited the old site, I felt like I was coming home. I felt comfortable, welcomed, and familiar. Now it is corporate bland, generic, and overly commercial. I canceled cable for the same reason and I sure as hell am not giving DM any more of money.

It's ironic, ever time an airline launched a new color scheme that was white and generic this site blew-up in disgust. Now, it's DM trying to shove this crap down our throats.

Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:05 pm

Dreamflight767 wrote:
You ACTUALLY think I'd pay to be a first class member now!?

You've gotta be flippin' kidding me. This site has taken a HUGE un-measurable hit in quality, appearance, functionality, and there clearly is no customer service. Why in the hell would I pay to be a first class member!?

When I visited the old site, I felt like I was coming home. I felt comfortable, welcomed, and familiar. Now it is corporate bland, generic, and overly commercial. I canceled cable for the same reason and I sure as hell am not giving DM any more of money.

It's ironic, ever time an airline launched a new color scheme that was white and generic this site blew-up in disgust. Now, it's DM trying to shove this crap down our throats.

was writing a long answer to this, but figured that I shouldn't bother...

ArmitageShanks · Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:48 am

EA CO AS wrote:
JohnKrist wrote:
As you obviously have not read this thread, and only come here to be rude I really shouldn't reply, but I do it anyway. First Class was not going to be an option anymore, so it was left out. However due to demand it will be re-introduced.

And had Demand Media actually bothered to seek input or opinions from the users of this site, they'd have known that BEFORE the site rollout, eliminating the need for that option to be "re-introduced" later.

Among a few other things they'd have learned if, again, they'd bothered to ask the users.

So why isn't there a dedicated "What other options would you like to see?" thread here from DM or the admins? Maybe we can give you the input you never knew you needed without the added "You guys really effed up this site," feedback in the process, as is happening in this thread....

See, you're confused. If you think this website is anything other than a few sentences on an earnings report memo you are crazy. The mods and actual hands on developers might care but anyone in the actual company really could give a damn, and it shows. The universal condemnation of the simple color scheme has seen zero update but you'll be damn sure the ball is rolling on the recruitment of "content editors" and the ads seem to be working flawlessly.

WarRI1 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:57 am

I do not understand why people are having an issue with ads. I have not seen one so far. I have security on my computer, I guess that maybe the reason. A built in ad blocker?

WarRI1 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:05 am

One of the features I miss is the count on views. The total views suck. You could tell how many people were on and viewing your individual replies and that kept me on as long as I saw people were checking the thread. I have to write it down, or I do not remember what the count was when I replied. I know it says how many people are on the thread at that time, not as convenient.

RottenRay · Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:36 am

JohnKrist wrote:
As you obviously have not read this thread, and only come here to be rude I really shouldn't reply, but I do it anyway. First Class was not going to be an option anymore, so it was left out. However due to demand it will be re-introduced.

John, you should take a few days off. Take a nap, at least.

The member you're dragging through the dirt has been here for 12 years.

Now, I know you're a volunteer, just someone who wants to help the community a bit.

But for everyone else, you might want to tone down a bit and check your privilege at the gate, lest you come off as one of those power-hungry geeks who could never get a job as a paid customer-facing employee in a professional environment.

And before you get all huffy and delete this post, just be honest. You and I both know that Airliners is being turned into a content farm, laced with click-bait articles and photos. The forums have already died, this domain has slipped from an Alexa ranking of around 6000 to well under 8000, and it's still heading downhill.

This interface is crap, it's obvious that DM isn't putting any real talent behind fixing the problems here, and at the end of the day you have to just face the fact that they are using a FREE software script and a $17 skin for the forums.

And crying poor me all the while.

Well, cheers.

As Yoda would say, "Put this on my resume, I wouldn't."

airkas1 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:40 am

ArmitageShanks wrote:
The universal condemnation of the simple color scheme has seen zero update but you'll be damn sure the ball is rolling on the recruitment of "content editors" and the ads seem to be working flawlessly.

Again, for the umpth time, they're ALSO working on implementing a new forum layout at the same time, which should resolve a lot of issues that the users and crew have indicated. That's why it's not a simple 'just-change-the-color-job'. It would be fair to the developers if people to take that into account as well.

Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:48 am

RottenRay
First of all, do not comment on my activity here, that is off limits.
Second, it does not matter if you have been a member for 29 years, being rude is not acceptable, and that goes for you as well.
Third, my private job or ability to get one is also off limits.
Fourth, what site isn't click bait and filled with content? Oh, that would be a 404...
Fifth, what is the issue with using free scripts, or even buying a 17usd theme, really? The site is supposed to be free to the user, albeit ad driven, and you want what? A 100% in house made theme that cost 10.000 man hours? What says that would give a better result?

Dahlgardo · Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:37 am

Like many others I'm very sad to see how this site and community has ended up.
I probably only spend 1/10 of time here than before.
To me it's clear DM has no clue why what made this site so popular.
The "improvements" implemented by DM have obviously not been made for the enthusiasts that keep this site alive.
Perhaps a.net will be a textbook example why enthusiast websites should not be commercialized, or at least how it should not be done.

Maybe it's time to start a new community which has the contributers in focus like the old a.net.

I feel kind of sorry for the crew who are doing the best to defend DM and the site, but I guess we've all been there in our professional lives.
I sure have to put up with a lot of management crap decisions.

Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:55 am

the site has been changed to show the photographers work in a more focused way, it has been changed for our forum users since the old forum software was buggy and crashed several times every year. So which contributors focus have we lost? While the site sure isn't perfect, further development is being made.

dendrobatid · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:09 am

This site has taken a HUGE unmeasurable hit in quality, appearance, functionality, and there clearly is no customer service.

When I visited the old site, I felt like I was coming home. I felt comfortable, welcomed, and familiar. Now it is corporate bland, generic, and overly commercial.

Paraphrasing Dreamflight767 above. (his words echo my own thoughts very well)

The site is complex and I am sure that no-one expected such a massive re-write to be error free. The old site was businesslike and whilst there were lots of problems with it, I am not convinced that such a radical change in design was needed.

But what appalls me is the apparent lethargy, the inertia in getting the changes made and the total silence from DM. The fact that portrait images do not display properly after, what, three weeks, is beyond a joke

I am not a fan of the main competitors site, I never have been, but their site has seen a massive increase in traffic and we can all work out where that is coming from. I bet they are laughing but I most certainly am not. It is now a chore visiting rather than relaxation but at least the garden is looking better !

Mick Bajcar

zkeye · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:15 am

"it has been changed for our forum users since the old forum software was buggy and crashed several times every year"

I am sorry John, but the changes made were not for the forum users. I understand that your deep involvement means that you feel you must present the "upgrade" as a positive and this makes you very defensive. I honestly get that. But please don't insult our intelligence by pretending that the "upgrade" was for anything other than DM looking to turn this site into a click farm. As has been noted the ads all work perfectly but the simple changes people have been begging for have not eventuated after many weeks.

Like many other commenters, I am really sad at what has been done to this site. The "developers" are either rank amateurs or they are following instructions about what is to be done from DM. I know which I believe - and I don't think DM are amateurs. As a result A.net will just continue to decline. The photographers will stop uploading and the knowledgeable posters will go elsewhere. If you think I am wrong look at what Alexa.com has to say about the site ranking.

So very, very sad.

mariner · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:56 am

[quote="zkeye"]But please don't insult our intelligence by pretending that the "upgrade" was for anything other than DM looking to turn this site into a click farm. As has been noted the ads all work perfectly but the simple changes people have been begging for have not eventuated after many weeks.[/i]

If that was DM's intention, it has completely failed with me because I never see any ads - Ad Block fixes that - and I was using Ad Block on the old site as well.

Most of us live in a quasi-capitalist society and that DM wants the site to be more productive - that is profitable - should be no surprise to anyone. According to the Demand Media IPO filing, they paid Johan US$8.2 million for the site and I guess they'd like to see some of that money back.

At least Johan made his pile -

As I've said several times, the site works fine for computer illiterate me, I can do everything I do everything I used to do on the old site, and more, and now that I'm used to it, it's easier.

mariner.

Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:02 am

Zkeye, show me one site that does not want to have clicks, just one...

kulverstukas · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:15 am

JohnKrist wrote:
the site has been changed to show the photographers work in a more focused way...

Matthew 7 20

JohnKrist wrote:
it has been changed for our forum users since the old forum software was buggy and crashed several times every year. ... While the site sure isn't perfect, further development is being made.

Ok, one thing is repaired in three weeks - now users stays logged on. Almost none of the quality of photos issues was not addressed, photographer's corner is still a mess with some photos upsized to 1920x1080 on click. Photo resize engine still makes main page photos looks dull and soft. Only two guys who are brave enough to face enraged customers begin boiling up and insult users or delete forum posts. Lets' sit comfortable on the river bank and watch it with patience. Good thing is, that site can't be much worse, so any changes from now will be to good.

PS:

Zkeye, show me one site that does not want to have clicks, just one...

Isn't it a question of balance. Pprune, FR24, Jetphotos, Russianplanes, Planespotters... All this sites use advertising as source of income (idk if it is main source or not). I can't remember constant complains about advertising at them. But I remember too well constantly growing threads about annoying ads at old A.net. Adblock will solve an issue?

PPS: But if this site depends on advertising funds isn't it logical to put adblock blockers on it? There is a lot of examples lately, ranged from begging to switch adblock off at any empty space to real blockers which will not allow you to the site until you switch adblock off totally (like wired.com).

PPPS: As an fair example of balance I can point out to russianplanes.net. It's ads-free for contributors, i.e. photographers. If you logs in your photographers account you will not see any banners.

zkeye · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:21 am

JohnK,

Of course there are none - that is a strawman argument.

But yet again you insult members intelligence when you say that the changes made to the site by DM were made for the members. They weren't made to improve the experience but to improve the clicks. Dm is in the process of turning this site in AirlinersEHow.com and for that reason there is going to be kickback.

The fact that you have mods here advocating adblockers (which would infuriate the DM people if any of them ever actually visited the site) speaks volumes.

Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:57 am

zkeye wrote:
JohnK,

Of course there are none - that is a strawman argument.

But yet again you insult members intelligence when you say that the changes made to the site by DM were made for the members. They weren't made to improve the experience but to improve the clicks. Dm is in the process of turning this site in AirlinersEHow.com and for that reason there is going to be kickback.

The fact that you have mods here advocating adblockers (which would infuriate the DM people if any of them ever actually visited the site) speaks volumes.

Since you have already made up your mind I find no use in debating the opposite.

airkas1 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:59 am

zkeye wrote:
the DM people if any of them ever actually visited the site

They actually do though.

Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:02 am

Kulverstukas, I get just as much ads logging in to JP As I do here, actually I get the exact same ads so I think they use the same provider. Suppose that's ok since it's not DM which seems to be the main issue. Incidentally, their forum has white background as well with lots of empty space, but that's not DM either so I guess that's ok as well.

kulverstukas · Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:22 am

JohnKrist wrote:
Kulverstukas, I get just as much ads logging in to JP As I do here, actually I get the exact same ads so I think they use the same provider. Suppose that's ok since it's not DM which seems to be the main issue. Incidentally, their forum has white background as well with lots of empty space, but that's not DM either so I guess that's ok as well.

Cool down, I don't put it as JP is OK example of ads policy. (However at least I don't saw autostarted video advertising at JP). As for their forum, I already mentioned that compared to A.net forums their is dead (at the post Kas deleted for "being of bad taste"). Also FR24 plans to make huge redesign to JP so may be it will be A.net crew time to get bitter satisfaction :lol:

PS: Their photo resize engine is at least same level awful as here, but fullsize and thumbnail viewers now is much better and comfortable.

PPS: Also I must point out that this time I was logged out when I returns to forum through direct link and not main page.

Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:26 am

Haha I'm cool, really :shock:

Just a bit tired of the DM is evil that borders on chemtrail conspiracies...

ssteve · Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:41 pm

JohnKrist wrote:
Black/gray on white has been the norm for 4.000 years and still is the norm all over the internet, change will come...

Like hell is light gray on white a norm anywhere.

flymia · Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:16 pm

Its funny, I had a dream last night that Anet Civ Av Forum returned to its old self, oh well.

Two things thought. 1. I find it amusing the people complaining about vulgar or inappropriate adds. Anet does not pick the adds your internet use history picks the adds. I have an add about software development (been looking for someone to make a website) and a rental car add (been looking for rental cars)

Second, the comments about the site has not lost anything, that really is just an insult to the users. Traffic is down, photo viewing is down, forum content is down, and the quality of the content is down. We are not dumb. We see what is happening and it is the collapse of a website that I used to enjoy for 15 years.

ArmitageShanks · Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:05 pm

JohnKrist wrote:
Haha I'm cool, really
Just a bit tired of the DM is evil that borders on chemtrail conspiracies...

Nobody is saying they are evil. Users are just saying they are a company that has the wrong motives and are deceitful about how they acquire and run a business. They just want some honesty. Being told, over and over, for close to a decade that things are going to change without anything changing plus the total disaster of the new site gives people the right to complain. Especially since we've paid you real, actual dollars to do so. I've PAID ACTUAL MONEY to DM and have been casually wafted away with my concerns over and over.

Can you find any defenders of native advertising or content driven advertising other than those within a company producing such material? Its universally despised by those on the internet. Are you really saying its a good direction for Airliners or the internet as a whole? Doesn't it annoy you when you see those articles online or in an actual newspaper (like USA today)?

I can't believe I'm actually writing this out.

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