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Relayer
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:06 pm

Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:03 pm

All you need to do is review this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand_Media

It explains all you need to know. Your complaining is not going to change the business model. It is what it is.

Relayer
------------------------------------------------
edit:
Folks, this is the information you need to know to make an informed decision (thank you Thierry for an honest answer):

Relayer wrote:
What is the nature of the relationship that A.net has with Demand Media?
Relayer

Demand Media owns Airliners.net. Johan Lundgren, the father of Airliners.net sold it to them roughly 10 years ago.

Regards,
Thierry
Last edited by Relayer on Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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AirPacific747
Posts: 9715
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:42 pm

Just like I wrote in the beginning of the Website "Upgrade" thread. It's all about making a profit and the theme of the website is irrelevant to the owners. It could have been about panda bears instead of aviation. It's just an excuse to host this website and we are all being reduced to a bunch of small cash cows. How I wish Johan was still in charge :(((
 
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pylon101
Posts: 564
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:46 pm

And why would we? I have just learned that the site is an asset of DEMAND Inc.
Thank you for this revealing info.
I am on EK 231/232. The rest is just jet lag.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:11 pm

AirPacific747 wrote:
How I wish Johan was still in charge :(((


I understand you and I wonder how long the site will remain active. Right now we are apparently only 69 users on line. Is that really it?
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4248
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:41 pm

All feedback both positive and negative regarding the new website is being logged and tracked. Modifications will come, and bugs will be fixed.

I agree with all that there are plenty of bugs and flaws, they will not be permanent. The development team is working hard and diligently to correct mistakes.

There is currently a living, breathing priority list where the most critical issues are highlighted and are being worked on first. Please allow this process to take its course and we will be on the way to a much better user experience.

But please, if you find a bug please let us know. The feedback is critical to us knowing how how the site is working across a broad spectrum of users, browsers, and operating systems.

Matt B
Airliners.net Support
 
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cougar15
Posts: 1442
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:56 pm

you gotta fix this visible user real Name Thing. A lot of previously solid sources are going to be in all sorts of stife with employers if their identity is known. the will be fearful of posting & this will fasty reduce the Information Quality of Content, appart from breaking privacy laws in various countries. I will swallow all the changes, but cannot believe you guys let this happen. I am stunned at what 12 hours have already allowed me to find out, thankfuly - except for confirming a few perceptions I make no use of this Information, but again, I am absolutely stunned that you allowed this to happen, fix it urgently please!!!!
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7001
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:05 pm

cougar15 wrote:
you gotta fix this visible user real Name Thing.


Where does it appear? Under Viewing profile?
 
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:10 pm

As long as there is reason to complain I will not stop complaining. I know it is being worked on, but let's not pretend everything is fine when it's not.

Many people (including me) are complaining about the readability of the forums. The default theme is just not good and the alternative is not much better. How difficult can it be to install a theme that is readable and does not hurt the eyes? It doesn't even require coding, it's a default phpbb functionality and themes are widely available.
 
B8887
Posts: 457
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:20 pm

JetMatt.

A.net was with me almost daily for the last 10 years. A.net, and the AV Herald for that matter, was an unofficial source for major media outlets around the world for debate about aviation.

A.net was fun, informative, a trusted platform where posters and photographers were proud to post and publish.

It had a soul, it was made by aviation lovers for aviation lovers.

I cannot possibly conceive how badly the transition went and how it will now work for Demand Media if web traffic falls significantly.

Transitions do not have to be radical. The site needed improvements. They can be introduced progressively, for example the ability to scroll through photos tablet-style, or the ability to see forums that fit the screen on cellphones.

You should have taken the old website and improved it, not started from scratch. You do not change a winning team.

I am a volunteer to beta test whatever improvements you might be thinking about.

A.net for now does not exist any more. I hope something can be made to save it.

Regards.

B8887
 
USAIRWAYS321
Posts: 1728
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 4:31 pm

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:35 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
All feedback both positive and negative regarding the new website is being logged and tracked. Modifications will come, and bugs will be fixed.

I agree with all that there are plenty of bugs and flaws, they will not be permanent. The development team is working hard and diligently to correct mistakes.

There is currently a living, breathing priority list where the most critical issues are highlighted and are being worked on first. Please allow this process to take its course and we will be on the way to a much better user experience.

But please, if you find a bug please let us know. The feedback is critical to us knowing how how the site is working across a broad spectrum of users, browsers, and operating systems.

Matt B
Airliners.net Support

Not your fault Matt, but it's incredibly hard to believe that fixing the enormous list of basic mistakes is a priority for anyone at Demand Media. How anyone allowed this to exit beta in the current state is mind-boggling. No excuses can be made for this disaster.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:46 pm

USAIRWAYS321 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
All feedback both positive and negative regarding the new website is being logged and tracked. Modifications will come, and bugs will be fixed.

I agree with all that there are plenty of bugs and flaws, they will not be permanent. The development team is working hard and diligently to correct mistakes.

There is currently a living, breathing priority list where the most critical issues are highlighted and are being worked on first. Please allow this process to take its course and we will be on the way to a much better user experience.

But please, if you find a bug please let us know. The feedback is critical to us knowing how how the site is working across a broad spectrum of users, browsers, and operating systems.

Matt B
Airliners.net Support

Not your fault Matt, but it's incredibly hard to believe that fixing the enormous list of basic mistakes is a priority for anyone at Demand Media. How anyone allowed this to exit beta in the current state is mind-boggling. No excuses can be made for this disaster.


I, along with pretty much every crew member, and every Demand Media person assigned to Airliners.net, were on the beta test team. We all spent many hours testing each function, top to bottom. I can assure you that none of these backend issues were present on the very last beta version.

There is much activity occurring in the background to fix the bugs and address user feedback, especially regarding layout and color pallete.

Matt B.
Airliners.net Support / Customer Service
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4248
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:53 pm

B8887 wrote:
JetMatt.

A.net was with me almost daily for the last 10 years. A.net, and the AV Herald for that matter, was an unofficial source for major media outlets around the world for debate about aviation.

A.net was fun, informative, a trusted platform where posters and photographers were proud to post and publish.

It had a soul, it was made by aviation lovers for aviation lovers.

I cannot possibly conceive how badly the transition went and how it will now work for Demand Media if web traffic falls significantly.

Transitions do not have to be radical. The site needed improvements. They can be introduced progressively, for example the ability to scroll through photos tablet-style, or the ability to see forums that fit the screen on cellphones.

You should have taken the old website and improved it, not started from scratch. You do not change a winning team.

I am a volunteer to beta test whatever improvements you might be thinking about.

A.net for now does not exist any more. I hope something can be made to save it.

Regards.

B8887


Thank you for your dedication. I too have been a regular contributer to Airliners.net for 11 years now. I love this website and this community, and that's why I volunteer my time on the Airliners.net crew.

Please note, that I had no decision on whether or not to launch a new website, or overhaul the old.

But, that's where we are. I still love this site and want to work to make it better. All of the crew feel the same way, because we too love the site.

We are addressing all complaints, and all feedback, the best that we can. This feedback is going straight to Demand Media and is being accounted for.

The top priority for the developers at this time is to fix the large bugs that have appeared. Cosmetic issues will come after.

We have two FAQ's in the Site Related forum. Those highlight the larger issues we are experiencing, and contains status updates on what is being done.

Matt B.
Airliners.net Support / Customer Service
 
USAIRWAYS321
Posts: 1728
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 4:31 pm

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:02 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
USAIRWAYS321 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
All feedback both positive and negative regarding the new website is being logged and tracked. Modifications will come, and bugs will be fixed.

I agree with all that there are plenty of bugs and flaws, they will not be permanent. The development team is working hard and diligently to correct mistakes.

There is currently a living, breathing priority list where the most critical issues are highlighted and are being worked on first. Please allow this process to take its course and we will be on the way to a much better user experience.

But please, if you find a bug please let us know. The feedback is critical to us knowing how how the site is working across a broad spectrum of users, browsers, and operating systems.

Matt B
Airliners.net Support

Not your fault Matt, but it's incredibly hard to believe that fixing the enormous list of basic mistakes is a priority for anyone at Demand Media. How anyone allowed this to exit beta in the current state is mind-boggling. No excuses can be made for this disaster.


I, along with pretty much every crew member, and every Demand Media person assigned to Airliners.net, were on the beta test team. We all spent many hours testing each function, top to bottom. I can assure you that none of these backend issues were present on the very last beta version.

There is much activity occurring in the background to fix the bugs and address user feedback, especially regarding layout and color pallete.

Matt B.
Airliners.net Support / Customer Service

So how did the ball get dropped so badly in implementation? The bugs didn't just fall out of the clear blue sky.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4248
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:37 pm

USAIRWAYS321 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
USAIRWAYS321 wrote:
Not your fault Matt, but it's incredibly hard to believe that fixing the enormous list of basic mistakes is a priority for anyone at Demand Media. How anyone allowed this to exit beta in the current state is mind-boggling. No excuses can be made for this disaster.


I, along with pretty much every crew member, and every Demand Media person assigned to Airliners.net, were on the beta test team. We all spent many hours testing each function, top to bottom. I can assure you that none of these backend issues were present on the very last beta version.

There is much activity occurring in the background to fix the bugs and address user feedback, especially regarding layout and color pallete.

Matt B.
Airliners.net Support / Customer Service

So how did the ball get dropped so badly in implementation? The bugs didn't just fall out of the clear blue sky.


You are demanding an answer I am not qualified to give you. I know nothing of the source code and backend implementation of the new site.

Things aren't exactly peachy on the Support side right now. But, we are working through the issues as we can. We are responding to as many emails and posts as possible. And we are communicating all valid complaints and bug reports to the development team. We can't change the past but we are working through the storm.

Patience is all we ask. These issues are being addressed and will be fixed.

Matt B.
Airliners.net Support / Customer Service
 
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OA412
Moderator
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:17 am

Hi all. To echo what Matt said, the entire team is reviewing all the feedback, positive and negative. Things are being worked on as quickly as possible. I do appreciate everyone's patience through this transition, but also understand that a lot of you are frustrated. I'm sorry we can't do more right now to assuage your concerns, but I can promise you that bugs are being worked on as we speak.

cougar15 wrote:
you gotta fix this visible user real Name Thing.

FYI this appears to have been fixed.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
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mayor
Posts: 6218
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:54 am

Well, I for one didn't know this was coming. Was anyone else surprised? It seems difficult to use, but that could entirely be the bugs, etc. If it continues to be this way, however, I don't know how much longer I'll stick around. I know some on here will yell "yipee" at that statement, but I found the old format extremely easier to use.

This format seems to echo that old statement, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
KAUST
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:24 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:16 am

Hey Jetmatt; you know my history, my story, and all in all coming here was a salvation, a haven. Now that's gone. Another solid memory ruined by corporate America. Woops. I'm done. Yet another fodder for deepining depression. Please, end my account. I'm so outta here. Bye.
"Houston, this is Apollo 8. We are now in Lunar orbit."
 
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erezms
Posts: 86
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:34 am

Relayer wrote:
All you need to do is review this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand_Media

It explains all you need to know. Your complaining is not going to change the business model. It is what it is.

Relayer

I definitely agree.
Our frustrations are frustrations.
I think that just no need to fill the pages here with frustrations,
It is better to report about the faults, problems, not needs to write more and more about the frustrations, it does not help..
Thank you for understanding.
 
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Kiwiflyer
Posts: 5
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:54 am

Now, if I'm hearing and understanding correctly, all these issues apparently only came about once going live and none occurred during beta testing.

So, apart from the copyright issues and confidentiality infringements, what about the overall site design and usability? I'm assuming that the current structure was pretty much as is during the beta. And, if that was the case, how on earth did it ever go live if there were long-term crew members doing testing. 2 minutes of testing should have set huge red flags waving from the off from a usability perspective alone.

The elephant in the room here however is since going live, copyright and confidentially issues have existed and were identified very early on by users. Knowing this, and the potential risk to users, why wasn't the site taken down immediately? This shows a total lack of care and respect for users, their privacy and rights. I repeat what I've already said. Once this mess is sorted the hardest task will be to rebuild trust. Do not underestimate the damage this has done to your credibility.
 
Dreamflight767
Posts: 492
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:31 am

Get rid of the fuc|<ing ads! What in the hell is the matter with you people? This used to be a site I could retreat to free of commercials and now you push them in face. Greedy [email protected] And you're admitting that you beta tested this sh|t?
 
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kulverstukas
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:13 am

Dear Team Members!

Please not hide behind DM backs and not stress that your work is unpaid! You definitely was part of beta-testing team. You definitely saw what "new design" will looks like for contributors, i.e. photographers. You definitely know that screeneing process at this site doesn't allow contributors working on smartphones and upload from mobiles. And you still want us to believe that this new design which is something like bad version of flickr for iPhone is a thing we will be "used to"?

I don't know for sure, but I believe that sole motive for this redesign and immature launching of pre-alpha version of A.net was lost tender on picture providing for FR24, which was transferred from Planespotters to Jetphotos, not to A.net. If it was so, now you are much further from any possibility to have this contract than year ago. BTW, as mentioned earlier, both FR24 and JP managed to relaunch their sites in new design which was complained about a bit but not in such amount - overhelming amount! - like there.

Also please stop this nonsense about "We are main aviation photographic site in the whole Universe" - it is long not so. JP has more photos, Planespotters (and a lot of national sites) has more reliable database, A-P.net has more eye-catching and stunning shoots. A.net was good balance between size of DB and photos quality. Now IT WILL BE NOT if you don't get back photo part of old design and layout.

A
 
catiii
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:44 pm

B8887 wrote:
A.net was with me almost daily for the last 10 years. A.net, and the AV Herald for that matter, was an unofficial source for major media outlets around the world for debate about aviation.

A.net was fun, informative, a trusted platform where posters and photographers were proud to post and publish.

It had a soul, it was made by aviation lovers for aviation lovers.

I cannot possibly conceive how badly the transition went and how it will now work for Demand Media if web traffic falls significantly.


Ding ding ding. I have been on here in one form or another since 2003. The new layout and format for the forums is not enjoyable, and frankly does not lend itself to being the trusted source for information it once was. I have a strong feeling this will be my last interaction with the site.




Relayer wrote:
All you need to do is review this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand_Media

It explains all you need to know. Your complaining is not going to change the business model. It is what it is.

Relayer
------------------------------------------------
edit:
Folks, this is the information you need to know to make an informed decision (thank you Thierry for an honest answer):

Relayer wrote:
What is the nature of the relationship that A.net has with Demand Media?
Relayer

Demand Media owns Airliners.net. Johan Lundgren, the father of Airliners.net sold it to them roughly 10 years ago.

Regards,
Thierry


Why shouldn't we voice our opinions? We are, after all, customers who paid to join it.
 
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piedmont762
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:51 pm

As someone who works in IT consulting, everyone really needs to chill out. Know that in my experience:

1. Everyone knew the old airliners.net UI & Membership policy was going to be changed eventually no matter what. The UI was getting old, and the forums were getting very troll heavy.

2. Even though this is the initial rollout version, there (of course) will be tweaks that I'm sure the Mods are busy tracking and taking feedback. They seem receptive. So know that this will not be the final version at all.

3. Demand Media owns Airliners.net and can do whatever they want. I know for many years A.net was off their radar, and now they seem to be listening which is a very positive thing.

4. Demand Media wants to make money. More ad space = more money. At the end of the day DM doesn't care about users getting hissy about a UI change, they are using the site to make a profit.

"Why shouldn't we voice our opinions? We are, after all, customers who paid to join it."

You mean all $25? I love how it's free now, like FT.
 
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N202PA
Posts: 1287
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2000 9:44 pm

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:55 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
As someone who works in IT consulting, everyone really needs to chill out. Know that in my experience:

1. Everyone knew the old airliners.net UI & Membership policy was going to be changed eventually no matter what. The UI was getting old, and the forums were getting very troll heavy.


You can modify your UI carefully so that it is improved without destroying the fundamental nature of the site. As someone who works in IT consulting, you should know this. What DM did here was set off an atom bomb to kill a cockroach.

2. Even though this is the initial rollout version, there (of course) will be tweaks that I'm sure the Mods are busy tracking and taking feedback. They seem receptive. So know that this will not be the final version at all.


There are always tweaks with a new web site design, but this can't be tweaked so that it satisfies the majority of A.net contributors, most of which seem to genuinely dislike (putting it nicely) this new design. The only solution that is going to work is going back to the drawing board and fully involving the community in the new design.

3. Demand Media owns Airliners.net and can do whatever they want. I know for many years A.net was off their radar, and now they seem to be listening which is a very positive thing.


Listening after they blew up the site that everyone here liked doesn't really count as listening. Listening would have been allowing the community to fully beta test the new design to identify the many flaws BEFORE forcing it on the users. If anyone is listening now, it seems to be in an effort of playing damage control after realizing what a massive failure the new site is.

Also, I would agree that DM owns A.net and can do whatever they want. However, people are in no way tied to A.net and can vote with their feet...which some seem to be doing already.

4. Demand Media wants to make money. More ad space = more money. At the end of the day DM doesn't care about users getting hissy about a UI change, they are using the site to make a profit.


They should, because no users == no money.

Also, consider that adding banner ads really doesn't do much for a savvy audience like A.net's, who are aware of ad-blockers and use them.
 
flymia
Posts: 7125
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:18 pm

To the mods and crew members that volunteer your time, I highly doubt any hate/complaints are being directed at you guys. You guys probably did not have much say in this "re-launch." However, one thing is clear, for a user perspective this new site is a complete and utter failure.

It does not matter what bugs are fixed, the damage has been done. The usability, the classic design, and aviation themed oasis that Anet was is now gone. Demand Media might end up making more money by making the site just another old forum and photo library, they probably have made a completely new site to get more dollars, good for them. And given there is no longer any fee to join, they may experience more users for a few years.

But, without a drastic change back towards the older style, I don't see how the dedicated user base will remain nearly as active. The forum in particular has lost its ability to be a news sharing, informative forum. It is just another forum now. Lots of scrolling, lots of clicking, which means MORE ADVERTISING!

The days of Anet being the place of not just members but people from the around the world, (including large media outlets) to get their updates on major aviation events is over. The sit is no longer special. So while yes, there are now more ads, its "modern" and you might even get more users out of it, in the long run, I don't see how the site makes it, there is nothing here anymore to keep people coming back, like I was for 16 years.

Its clear, current members, by the overwhelming majority, are very disappointed in the site. Its clear the site was not ready to come out of beta, and it is clear that if major changes are not made long time users will no longer be active.

Its a shame. Its odd to have such a deep reaction to something so trivial. But so many of us had been logging in to Anet for so many years and it always looked about the same, felt the same, and the experience was the same. It is completely different now, and not for the better, it moved from being distinct website to just another one, like so many others. I, for example, had been logging in since I was eleven years old. And now, I have this generic looking website thats a shell of its former shelf. A site that looks just like 1,000,000 other sites on the web.

Demand Media, you really messed this up, you really destroyed something special. I get it, a re-do was needed, but not a completely new website. This is not airliners.net anymore.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
SpaceDiva
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 8:43 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:49 am

Message boards are to post opinions, correct? How is it a website expects members to join, to support the site, then they do not allow feedback? Why not just run an empty site with no users? That is what you would have to do in order to stop people from expressing opinions. Websites are made for USERS, not for people who make websites. If they expect money, they must understand members expect certain things too.

The home page looks awful. The message boards are hard to read, I am not the only designer who thinks the new look is ugly and laughable and poorly designed. If a site does not care about the needs of members, why should I care about that site? If they do not want to hear my opinion, why have a message board? If everyone is complaining, it is because the new site design sucks. Being members of this site, we have the right to feel that way. We are the ones keeping the site active. Without members, you have no website. Period.

You do not have any right to demand that people stop feeling a certain way. Even if the site deletes every negative post, this would be a cowardly act that would make them lose even more members than they already have. Making things readable for those with vision problems is not too much to ask. That is a BASIC service that every successful website provides to members. If they are going to make a board FOR my opinion, I will say my opinion in a respectful way, while following the guidelines of the site.

I do not like the new look. I will complain. I will not magically "get used" to straining my eyes and having to adjust my computer for this one site, when every other site is well designed enough for me to read. Basically it boils down to respect. If a site respects members and they want to be profitable, they will listen to users. If not, they will go belly up like many other websites do. Considering they took away just about everything I liked about the site, I pretty much have decided to leave if the site is not readable in a few weeks. I am patient and willing to give the Crew time to fix this but I will not wait forever. Neither will all these other members.

So, for me, this place has a limited time to either: 1) get it or 2) not get it. If they do not get why all these members are mad, they will lose members, including me. If they do not like reading the opinions of others, maybe they should change the site back to how it used to look, or remove the "site related" area of the message board to censor the opinions of whatever members are left. I do not see good things for this site if they keep it this way. It was a great site before. The old site looks professional and was easy to use. The new site looks terrible, is hard to read, has an awful white background and tiny, unreadable fonts.

Here is a nice educational link for the site designers.

http://www.theworldsworstwebsiteever.com/

This site highlights all the things one can do wrong in web design. People who designed websites 15 years ago knew the basics of layout and readability so whoever designed this new look is 15 to 20 years behind in their education about web design. Airliners made a few VERY beginner, very novice design mistakes. I am a designer, we tend to notice things like this. I am not coming down on any individual. I am saying I do not like their design. It has nothing to do with the human being...whatever human being did this just clearly lacks the skill to correctly design a site. I am complaining because the site is INCORRECT, as in, it looks wrong from an artistic, visual and technical standpoint. If anyone's little feelings are "hurt" about that, I am very sorry....but perhaps they need to do more research, go to design school or hire a professional and admit that they just didn't do a great job. Obviously they need some advice, or else there would not be this many complaints.

This is why people are upset and complaining. This is not "mean" people attacking some poor helpless person. These are educated people, trying to express in the most polite, mature way possible that they are unhappy. If anyone has a problem with this, they have a right to their opinion too. Nobody has the right to tell anyone not to express an opinion, especially when that person is following the rules of a site as they do so. Instead of getting emotional and attacking people for having opinions, maybe those who disagree should read WHY we feel this way.

I have a vision problem. This is the ONLY site that has been so insensitive to my vision impairment. I emailed them about this issue and have not heard anything and it has been 48 hours. They also seemed to have made the home page worse looking and less readable since then. So yeah, if I do not hear back, I will take that as a huge clue that whoever is in charge does not care about marketing a site to everyone. Basically by making an unreadable site, they are cutting out everyone who does not have perfect vision which is over 25% of America. How is this a smart business decision and why should I "stop complaining" about it when it could impact me and 25% of members here? I might add that a lot of the members here are over age 40 and more likely to have vision problems. How is this fair to them? Why should they be told to "shut up" about it like some little kid? No offense but this post by Relayer is insulting to members.
 
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AirlineCritic
Posts: 1758
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:11 am

There are issues. In my mind the biggest problem is the screen real estate devoted to ads.

However, I would like to offer the opinion -- as someone with some experience on web technology -- that there was no way the old site could have continued. A new system was needed, one based on modern tools.

I would also like to suggest, that it will indeed need some time for the feedback to be acted on. They are right in asking for patience .

Lets not complain about the redesign. Lets complain about ads, or colour choices, and bugs.
 
klvk94550
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:43 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:29 am

if anyone is complaining about the upgrade to this site, I just have to say, some people can't be pleased! I for one love the new layout of AIRLINERS, VERY MUCH
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:35 am

cougar15 wrote:
you gotta fix this visible user real Name Thing. A lot of previously solid sources are going to be in all sorts of stife with employers if their identity is known. the will be fearful of posting & this will fasty reduce the Information Quality of Content, appart from breaking privacy laws in various countries. I will swallow all the changes, but cannot believe you guys let this happen. I am stunned at what 12 hours have already allowed me to find out, thankfuly - except for confirming a few perceptions I make no use of this Information, but again, I am absolutely stunned that you allowed this to happen, fix it urgently please!!!!


How do you find out members real names? What is my real name?

Another question; is this site now free to join or is there still a fee?

Whilst the privacy issue might be a concern, those who post top secret information that might result in their employer terminating their employment should have thought twice before providing their real name anywhere to begin with regardless of whether it should have been able to be seen by others or not...

BTW whilst I don't like the majority of changes, I find it easier to quote and post replies on smaller devices such as phones and tablets now. I'd also like to thank the mods for all of the volunteered time and dedication that they put in; your effort is appreciated.
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
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airkas1
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:37 am

@777Jet
Real names/privacy issue is already long solved and not an issue anymore.
As for your question, the site is free to join.
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6987
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Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:40 am

Thank you for the Quick Reply, airkas1.
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
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PeterEde
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:46 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:11 am

Well as long as your happy. Never mind the majority.
klvk94550 wrote:
if anyone is complaining about the upgrade to this site, I just have to say, some people can't be pleased! I for one love the new layout of AIRLINERS, VERY MUCH
 
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canadianpylon
Posts: 363
Joined: Thu May 01, 2003 10:18 pm

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:20 pm

People complain because they care. If they are complaining, that means they want to see it improved.

When people stop complaining, apathy has set in, and people have left. That's when you're in trouble.
Always looking for the longest route with the most transfers.
 
NickLAX
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:14 am

Agree... My 30-45 min a day has gone down to 5 min. I get it's "new" and "fresh" but less data to quickly glance and while nav on mobile is great for nearly all - the old site was fine for me on chrome for a mobile device. Lack of a simple uncomplicated subject thread list in the forums is a big issue for me - less subject threads shown per browser view and un-necessary extra info that shouldn't be below a thread subject but to the right - allowing more threads shown per browser page. Just my 2 cents - ignore it.

Done complaining - I'll go do something else with the time that airliners.net had me "glued" - will still be here - but less engaged and less likely to spend anything but minimal time. If something else comes along with some of the valuable other contributors here - I will jump in a heartbeat.
 
MagnoMartin
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:07 pm

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:31 pm

Dear Airliners Crew,

I do understand that its 2016 and that a beloved site like Airliners.net need to adapt to modern requirements. There is nothing wrong with a fresh look or improvements on the search engine or forum. For me as a long time user and aviation enthusiast there has always been a sporting competition between 'first class full fare' Airliners.net and the 'low-cost carrier style' jetphotos.net, were it would have taken a paragon of virtue for the jet photos team not to feel viciously jealous on the attention A.net got over the years.

I do understand that Demand Media has a commercial goal and that the days of 'Pictures of modern Airliners' amateurism are over. But this upgrade is not just a fresh look, nor an improvement. It is rather a mishap. Doubtless arise out of the best intentions but, let face it, failed. It is good that the Airliners Crew still believe in a positive outcome. It is also good that 'a lot' improvements will be implemented and that the moderators "still love the site". I did love the site, but lets face it. It is dead. You can do some CPR to it and I appreciate the effort. But but the atmosphere, the experience, the clear information platform that Airliners.net was for me as an enthusiast and aviation professional Is gone. You can not fix and experience; you can not regenerate magic.

One can only hope that the crew at '2nd best' jetphotos.net keep their heads cool and just wait and see. Because even without the blue background this will be my platform (and many others) for the future. I will not complain. Goodby and thanks for all the good years,

yours sincerely,
 
bourbon
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:35 pm

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:09 pm

Everything is way too big. The old site was more compact and could see far more forum threads open and replies. The pictures on the front page are also too large. Takes far more scrolling now to get all the content that was once available on the screen without scrolling.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2562
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:05 pm

klvk94550 wrote:
if anyone is complaining about the upgrade to this site, I just have to say, some people can't be pleased! I for one love the new layout of AIRLINERS, VERY MUCH


Well, good for you, man!

I personally HATE it, and am not going to keep quiet about it!
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2562
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:08 pm

This new re-design is horrible. There are so many issues with the new website that I don't know where to start from. Now, whether the owners actually care or not, this is an entire different story. And I am inclined to think NOT. And that the one thing that matters to them is the number of ads displayed on the site. I for one also don't think that our moans are going to be listened to. I see this merely as .."venting'. I do not fool myself: no one is going to ever see again our good old blue site with the 747 logo... that is gone forever...
 
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kulverstukas
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:58 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:22 pm

MagnoMartin wrote:
Dear Airliners Crew,

...

One can only hope that the crew at '2nd best' jetphotos.net keep their heads cool and just wait and see.




Unfortunately at this current point in time, it's not possible to sign up for a JP Elite account. Please note that JetPhotos.net has been purchased by Flightradar24.com and we're currently reviewing JP Elite accounts in relation with our own Premium subscriptions. We want to provide the best customer experience for all our users and we're currently discussing ways we can provide this. These changes also include design changes to the JetPhotos.net website but unfortunately we are yet to decide on a future course of action so I appreciate your patience and understanding.

Please also accept my apology for any inconvenience this has caused you.
-------------
Not very promising, but I'm not one experienced in these things.
-------------
It is promising. It is just that we decided to really do a fresh website for jp. Not only a new design but also new code, as the old one is getting too old and was optimized for a server set-up that is history now and would not be able to handle the traffic. We are in agreement that a premium subscription will have to be reinstalled once the new website is running. I apologize for the time in between, where we can not take new ELITE subscriptions. The old ELITE users will keep their benefits without paying for them for the time being. I am sorry for any inconvenience this might cause, but it is a necessary step to improve JP.
 
SpaceDiva
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 8:43 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:24 pm

Okay, well it looks like Airliners.net is not sure when they will be able to get someone to change the fonts and colors, which I probably COULD do in less than an hour IF someone wanted to hire me to do a much better job than they did here. If anyone is interested in hiring me to help fix this disaster, I would do it for a very low price. I do not work for free because people who do quality work usually do not work for free.

People who do shoddy work will work for free a lot of times, then when things have to be fixed or tweaked, they take weeks or months to do what a professional can get done in a few hours. If someone asked me to help design this site, I might charge them some money BUT it would look much better, it would be readable and people probably would not STILL be posting scathing messages on the forums. Furthermore, if anyone ever said such horrible things about a job I did, it would be fixed within 48 hours. I would not be telling members "We don't know" or giving people eye strain saying we are "working" on it. To keep cracking jokes on it at this point would sound like a bad comedy routine and I do not want to disrespect anyone here who is working hard and who is a good person.

Fortunately, I am a pretty patient person with a good sense of humor. I am guessing by the looks of it, whoever did this redesign lacks an education in design and messed things up so bad, they probably are not knowledgeable enough to fix their own work, or at least not in a timely manner. Sometimes people who do things like this swear they are "experts" then when it becomes obvious they are not, they bail on the project and leave a site totally messed up and cant fix it on their own. I suspect something like this happened here. There is NO way it would take any design professional over one week to fix minor complains like color and font size. It looks to me like someone here bailed out or screwed over the site owners, probably claiming to be a design expert who works for free....Yeah....bad move....

Whatever the case, it looks like there are some bigger issues here, so maybe it is best that I take a little hiatus, then check back in a few weeks and see if they sorted this mess out. I feel really bad for anyone taking heat for this if they had nothing to do with it. The rest of the Airliners Crew might not have anything to do with these changes. The person who did this might not be a bad person but whoever did this layout is NOT a professional designer and should never do web design again without educating themselves better. This is a hard way to learn a lesson. I sincerely hope everything works out for the best and I hope to come back to a design I can see and that others are happy with too. It is really sad to see a good website get trashed so hard on the forums and by so many members.

In the meantime, I am a member of lots of other sites and I am always on Skype. So if anyone wants to join me, I have an aviation chat room on Skype, so if you want to add me, anyone here can check it out. Just let me know if you are from Airliners and you can have access to my "special" room, for adults over 18 only. It is an non-moderated room, keep this in mind. If you are easily offended this might not be for you. If not and you are laid back, cool and want to talk about aviation and other things, my Skype name is: Space.Diva1

Don't be shy, send me a message and we can chat! Peace to everyone and I hope the Crew can sort this out!
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:17 am

pylon101 wrote:
And why would we? I have just learned that the site is an asset of DEMAND Inc.
Thank you for this revealing info.


It isn't a secret, it never was. I recall the howls of outrage when Demand Media bought the site and made a few changes. Eventually, that all died down.

And those fondly recalling the days when Johan was in charge have obviously forgotten the many glitches and outages, some lasting for days on end - to the fury of the membership. Originally a university project it became too successful and it beyond his ability to manage. I hope he made a lot of money out of the sale.

And for those complaining about the ads - get an ad-blocker. It does the trick for me.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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Classa64
Posts: 319
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:02 am

My work kept me busy so last time I logged in was when it said site under construction we will be back, I figured it was just for maintenance.... Logged in today and wow, what a mess. I understand there will be bugs and I will pass for now and come back in a few weeks see how things are going. I was not a big contributor in any way but really enjoyed the topics and the feedback when I did make a post. As someone who ran a site for a bit its frustrating as hell when you change so much in one shot and made the mistake of doing so, so i reverted it back to the old site, fixed the issues and upgraded a little at a time and things worked out. With all the issues I am reading about maybe that should be done, but I see by the FAQ's section they are doing there best and I hope when I come back its better, I think in this day and age Keeping it simple is what a lot of people like. To the disappointed people give it time, to the angry give it time and keep reporting the issues, to the people in the shadows trying to fix this site, Good Luck and I really miss the 747 on the top of the page.
"Freedom is the miles i'm rolling on"
 
rugger
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:03 pm

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:25 am

And just like Demand Media can put whatever they want on this website, a.net customers can choose to move to another website to get their news. This new website is so slow, and looks like something out of a first grade reader. It's now a waste of time. More time should have been taken testing this format before moving it to production.
 
citationjet
Posts: 2548
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:36 pm

The photo search function has lost a lot of usability. Can't search by airline very easily; it takes forever to scroll down. Too much white space between each forum thread. I get tired of constantly scrolling to see more than a few threads. Bring back the condensed list, on dark background with white letters. Much better to read.
Also I keep getting asked if I want to leave this page everytime I click on something. Why is that?
After being an active A.netter for over 15 years, I am loosing interest in this website, given the wholesale recent change.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
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airkas1
Posts: 7904
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:01 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:40 pm

citationjet wrote:
The photo search function has lost a lot of usability. Can't search by airline very easily; it takes forever to scroll down.

If you start typing the airline in the box, the dropdown menu will autosuggest airlines. It actually saves some time scrolling down compared to the old site.

citationjet wrote:
Too much white space between each forum thread. [...] on dark background with white letters. Much better to read.

The forum colors should be fixed by the end of the week.

citationjet wrote:
Also I keep getting asked if I want to leave this page everytime I click on something. Why is that?

Not sure. I don't experience this. Maybe try deleting the A.net cookies and see if it works after that?
 
citationjet
Posts: 2548
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:56 pm

airkas1 wrote:
citationjet wrote:
The photo search function has lost a lot of usability. Can't search by airline very easily; it takes forever to scroll down.

If you start typing the airline in the box, the dropdown menu will autosuggest airlines. It actually saves some time scrolling down compared to the old site.

citationjet wrote:
Too much white space between each forum thread. [...] on dark background with white letters. Much better to read.

The forum colors should be fixed by the end of the week.
Thanks. That is probably my biggest complaint about the new design. The threads on the forum should be much closer together, with many more to a page. All this extra white space is annoying - too much scrolling. The white spaces are very stressful on the eyes. Make the forum formatting more like the previous set up - condensed, and with a dark background.
citationjet wrote:
Also I keep getting asked if I want to leave this page everytime I click on something. Why is that?

Not sure. I don't experience this. Maybe try deleting the A.net cookies and see if it works after that?
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
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airkas1
Posts: 7904
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:01 am

Re: Stop the complaining about the upgraded site... please!

Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:04 pm

If I understand everything correctly, we will get
- A new forum layout, which is hopefully 'cleaner' than this one
- The blue colors back

Both things combined, they should definitely provide better usability. I for one am looking forward to seeing the results.

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