TheSonntag
Topic Author
Posts: 4421
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

Quality decline of A.net postings

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:39 pm

I normally don't like rants like "everything was better before", but I feel somewhat that I wanted to post this comment in Site Related.

I am an A.Net member since 2004, already reading stuff some years before. And while A.net had many stupid threads 10 years ago as well, I feel that the Quality of many postings has declined considerably in the last year. Too many kids are posting bullshit.

Also, one gets the impression A.net is getting more childish A vs B than ever before, and many Posters seem to lack fundamental understanding of how a globalised world works. With other words: Too many kids. The 40xx thread about the A380 is getting dozens of meaningless comments, while insightful discussions on new industrial developments are ignored and getting little attention.

I was young, too. But I think it is about the olders posting more relevant discussions, and about the mods stopping more irrelevant discussions.

So what can be done? Maybe more rules? Banned Topics? Stricter Moderation? I do not know. But something has to happen!
 
Ozair
Posts: 2790
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Re: Quality decline of A.net postings

Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:47 am

TheSonntag wrote:

So what can be done? Maybe more rules? Banned Topics? Stricter Moderation? I do not know. But something has to happen!

Pay to post like it used to be. The number of new posters has risen but I agree the quality has reduced significantly and numerous experienced and respected posters on the forum are being ridiculed to the point where many of them have left and we lose some of that great industry insight and knowledge.
 
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qf789
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Quality decline of A.net postings

Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:16 pm

TheSonntag wrote:
I normally don't like rants like "everything was better before", but I feel somewhat that I wanted to post this comment in Site Related.

I am an A.Net member since 2004, already reading stuff some years before. And while A.net had many stupid threads 10 years ago as well, I feel that the Quality of many postings has declined considerably in the last year. Too many kids are posting bullshit.

Also, one gets the impression A.net is getting more childish A vs B than ever before, and many Posters seem to lack fundamental understanding of how a globalised world works. With other words: Too many kids. The 40xx thread about the A380 is getting dozens of meaningless comments, while insightful discussions on new industrial developments are ignored and getting little attention.

I was young, too. But I think it is about the olders posting more relevant discussions, and about the mods stopping more irrelevant discussions.

So what can be done? Maybe more rules? Banned Topics? Stricter Moderation? I do not know. But something has to happen!


Firstly there is a perception from some users that the low quality posting is coming primarily from our younger or newer users, that's a myth its a mix of young/newer users and the older users as well. Some of the posting I have seen from younger and newer users has been thought through and have become good contributors to the site. Every new user that joins this site goes through the requirement of having their first 2 posts approved by moderation. Firstly we check that the user is a new user not an existing one of which we do certain checks, we also check what they are posting - if it is not acceptable, which may include rule violations or low quality among other things it will be rejected and a reason why.

One thing we have seen happen that seems to be getting worse at times is trolling. We as moderators try to do our best to get rid of it but quite often users who do this usually make a few good posts and then troll other topics and give less than acceptable posts which does at times make our job harder.

I do agree about the Airbus vs Boeing flamewars. I have noticed an increase particularly over the past few weeks especially after we has a few orders from Airbus announced. There were a few users in particularly who nneded to be told to pull their heads in as they were provoking other users and turning the actual topic into the flamewar and some of those users were getting quite cocky with their Airbus or Boeing rhetoric. Unfortunately that some users can not put aside their emotions when discussing topics such as this.

Currently we are finalising an update in the rules of which we have changed a few things and added new ones. I am not for banning topics as we will be accused of censorship. As for stricter moderation i think every user has a role to play here. A lot of things get missed because they are not reported. We as a group of moderators cannot read every post in every thread. I have come across time and time again where users has said mods delete this, things like this should be reported so we can take the approriate action. If you come across a post you are unsure whether it should be there or not still report it and will review it.
The developers are also working on restoring the email notification for post deletions, I think once this returns maybe we will see users learn from why their posts have been deleted

I guess one thing we could do about threads that keep on popping up on things suchas the 757 is maybe have a general 757 thread, having such a thread would lead users to that thread rather than starting thread after thread and it would also be easier from our point of view to moderate

Finally the moderators are quite open to suggestions on how things can be improved so lets keep this thread constructive
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atcsundevil
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Posts: 2768
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Quality decline of A.net postings

Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:53 pm

TheSonntag wrote:
I normally don't like rants like "everything was better before", but I feel somewhat that I wanted to post this comment in Site Related.

I am an A.Net member since 2004, already reading stuff some years before. And while A.net had many stupid threads 10 years ago as well, I feel that the Quality of many postings has declined considerably in the last year. Too many kids are posting bullshit.

Also, one gets the impression A.net is getting more childish A vs B than ever before, and many Posters seem to lack fundamental understanding of how a globalised world works. With other words: Too many kids. The 40xx thread about the A380 is getting dozens of meaningless comments, while insightful discussions on new industrial developments are ignored and getting little attention.

I was young, too. But I think it is about the olders posting more relevant discussions, and about the mods stopping more irrelevant discussions.

So what can be done? Maybe more rules? Banned Topics? Stricter Moderation? I do not know. But something has to happen!

To add to what qf789 said..

It may be a bit hard to believe, but the vast majority of our worst offenders on this site have been users for years. Most of them predate the site migration.

I don't disagree that the new site and having free memberships has created a number of challenges, but these days, users don't typically interact with these issues. We screen out our spam users or those who create accounts with otherwise nefarious intent. Their posts are never able to go live, because we reject their posts and ban their accounts before anyone ever sees. We can keep a closer eye on new users to ensure they're meeting posting criteria. It's not perfect, but we're generally able to stay on top of things.

Younger users or those without much industry insight to share is hardly a new issue for the site. I agree that paid membership forced users to "buy in" in more than just the monetary sense, but it didn't make the site immune from immature or uneducated comments. Fanboyism has existed here for a very long time, as has ignorance and plain stupidity.

It can also be frustrating for me when users clearly without industry experience or firsthand knowledge attack my statements. I work in the industry, and have imitate knowledge of some of the things I post about as a user, so when it comes to certain topics, I know what I'm talking about when they clearly don't. Annoying as it may be, this isn't a new issue...it's something many users in a similar position have dealt with for many years, and unfortunately it's driven away many good posters. This is absolutely not a new issue, but nonetheless it's frustrating.

Just because these aren't new problems doesn't mean we don't want to fix them, but blaming them on the new site or lack of paid memberships isn't entirely accurate. We're in a difficult position, because we need justification for our actions. It's not fair to delete someone's post just because we think what they're saying is stupid. We remove what we need to in order to maintain civility and decency. It doesn't always work, but that's the goal. If you have tangible ideas, we're happy to listen. We plan on pushing out a more comprehensive rules update soon, so hopefully that will help allay some confusion and better define our standards.

Ozair wrote:
Pay to post like it used to be. The number of new posters has risen but I agree the quality has reduced significantly and numerous experienced and respected posters on the forum are being ridiculed to the point where many of them have left and we lose some of that great industry insight and knowledge.

Nearly all of the moderators are in favor of going back to a paid model. It's not about making money for the site (we have absolutely nothing to gain in either case), it's about increasing user responsibility, limiting the potential for multiple account users, and a slew of other reasons. VerticalScope wants to give the free model a try for the time being. As I said further up post, while there has been a decrease in post quality to a degree, much of it has honestly come from longtime users. In general, we have more trouble with users who paid to join than those who signed up for free. Our hope is that when we eventually do push out the rules update, it'll give users a better sense of posting expectations, and it'll give us more tools to limit bad behavior.
 
TheSonntag
Topic Author
Posts: 4421
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Re: Quality decline of A.net postings

Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:52 am

Thank you both of you for your very insightful comments. I understand that the issue itself has been understood.

Michael
 
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hOMSaR
Posts: 1953
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

Re: Quality decline of A.net postings

Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:30 pm

qf789 wrote:
I guess one thing we could do about threads that keep on popping up on things suchas the 757 is maybe have a general 757 thread, having such a thread would lead users to that thread rather than starting thread after thread and it would also be easier from our point of view to moderate


Yes, this, please.

Topics that need general threads:

757 production
Is the A380 dead?
Is the 747 dead?
Keesje's fly drawings
I'm sure there are a few others
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 1543
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Quality decline of A.net postings

Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:07 am

hOMSaR wrote:
qf789 wrote:
I guess one thing we could do about threads that keep on popping up on things suchas the 757 is maybe have a general 757 thread, having such a thread would lead users to that thread rather than starting thread after thread and it would also be easier from our point of view to moderate


Yes, this, please.

Topics that need general threads:

757 production
Is the A380 dead?
Is the 747 dead?
Keesje's fly drawings
I'm sure there are a few others


I have to think moving to a more generalized category system would be more popular, while we wouldn't want the site to look like flyertalk necessarily, the ability to segregate threads would potentially make navigation much easier and to focus on the topics you are looking for. there are already certain board to separate more generic stuff like Tech ops, polls/preferences, even this one for Site related, but i think it could be smart as a compromise to create say Airbus, Boeing, Other manufacturer boards, the North America, Europe, Asia, Middle East, Australasia, South America as regional boards, oh and for the hell of it we should create a special one for enilria and his weekly OAG threads, probably some of the most looked out for threads each week, i am kidding a little, but it shows you would could be done.
However I am wondering if you don't take a leaf out of the existing rule book. You guys made the change to review the first post of all new members, something which i support greatly, however could you perhaps extend that to new threads as well, While it might be frustrating to have to wait for your topic to come up, especially if it's a crash or emergency topic, but it might weed out more the duplicated ones as a starting point, especially now we've stopped the MH370 part 84 threads. Mods do an excellent job of shutting down duplicate threads if they get onto the board, just wonder if cutting it off before that point is viable?
I for one would not be a fan of pay to post, I love this site and would not want it to change to cut off a huge chunk of the user base, however i am also a realist, VS want to make money from it and it would remove some of the worst offenders, but not all.

Last point, you would make the user base super happy if you could fix and return the airport code hover, i miss that greatly, even though i am pretty good with them.

Keep up the good work, and if you need any more mods, keep me in mind, i admin groups on facebook of significant sizes and would be interested in joining the team if a spot was available. I've been a member for 14 years and will be a very happy member/user going forward with a few relatively minor tweaks.

Thanks
VS4ever (Andy)
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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qf789
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Re: Quality decline of A.net postings

Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:16 am

VS4ever wrote:
However I am wondering if you don't take a leaf out of the existing rule book. You guys made the change to review the first post of all new members, something which i support greatly, however could you perhaps extend that to new threads as well, While it might be frustrating to have to wait for your topic to come up, especially if it's a crash or emergency topic, but it might weed out more the duplicated ones as a starting point, especially now we've stopped the MH370 part 84 threads. Mods do an excellent job of shutting down duplicate threads if they get onto the board, just wonder if cutting it off before that point is viable?


Currently posts, that is any post whether its replying to a particular topic or starting a new topic requires approval by a moderator for their first 2 posts. Unfortunately after that the user can start these topics without requiring approval from us. One thing I do find quite frustrating is users starting topics and putting very little effort into the start of the topic, whether that is starting the thread with a link only or providing very little detail, something we refer to as low quality posting. I personally believe this may improve, even only a little once we get those deletion notifications out as I think some may learn from their mistakes while others wont

I for one would not be a fan of pay to post, I love this site and would not want it to change to cut off a huge chunk of the user base, however i am also a realist, VS want to make money from it and it would remove some of the worst offenders, but not all.


From the moderators point of view we would prefer a small fee to be charged so it get rids of the spammers as before the post approvals we were getting quite a lot of spam on the forums. While their may be a first class membership later down the track, it does not appear that users who join just for posting will be expected to pay to join at this point in time

Last point, you would make the user base super happy if you could fix and return the airport code hover, i miss that greatly, even though i am pretty good with them.


That has been listed on the squawk sheet to be fixed however I can not give you a time when that will happen, that is beyond our control
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gokmengs
Posts: 1018
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Re: Quality decline of A.net postings

Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:48 am

There have been few threads started buy new members, that are asking questions such as "Does BA operate to Australia" etc, threads that are asking questions that can be answered with 1 search, after the redesign I quit the site for about 2 years, but couldnt help myself and came back, so I don't know what happened but is it not paid membership anymore? if so wow a small $10 fee goes a looooong way. The quality has gone down big time. I looked at my profile and most of my "friends" aka favorite users were last active 2 years ago, they posted the most informative stuff on here, hope they come back, and the new owners do something to improve the quality here.
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Quality decline of A.net postings

Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:25 pm

I think you should bring Pep back. He'd get everyone in line. Fast.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Quality decline of A.net postings

Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:06 pm

Why not consider a ranking system where the youngest of users in terms of content created must first have their threads approved before being granted a higher rank with fewer restrictions/no moderator approval required? Trusted users can get their threads in without approval required. This would take the current first two-post rule much further.

I.e., user A of newbie rank has had X threads successfully approved by moderators, now they’re promoted to a full user without restrictions.

As opposed to newbie user B who has posted Y threads, but fewer than Y approved. Or heck, make it a percentage?

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