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keesje
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Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:04 am

Well I wont follow any MAX grounding post anymore. Too big, going all the way, 10 sub topics together. .

Started a well structured sub topic, post grounding, but apparently also must be thrown on the big heap.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1417835

And then complain it is such a chaos, news gets repeated 3-5 times because of it.

Old threads get renamed on the go, some selected forum rule declared holy, with only negative consequences / no winners.

I won't spend any time on a new one, it simply gets locked, throw everything on the big heap.

Reduces quality & frustrates people trying to create well structured, focused threads.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:30 am

keesje wrote:
Well I wont follow any MAX grounding post anymore. Too big, going all the way, 10 sub topics together. .

Started a well structured sub topic, post grounding, but apparently also must be thrown on the big heap.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1417835

And then complain it is such a chaos, news gets repeated 3-5 times because of it.

Old threads get renamed on the go, some selected forum rule declared holy, with only negative consequences / no winners.

I won't spend any time on a new one, it simply gets locked, throw everything on the big heap.

Reduces quality & frustrates people trying to create well structured, focused threads.

We're already trying our best to moderate the five or six threads currently active. We don't need ten more when virtually all of the discussion is the same. There are literally four or five of us trying to keep up with thousands of posts, and we've easily had 150+ reports today alone. There isn't enough information right now to have structured, focused threads; it's all speculation and conjecture. So, as I said when I locked your thread, give it a couple of days until more information exists, then create a focused thread. Until then, we need to keep the onslaught manageable, because these threads have been massively time-consuming and we can't keep up.
 
Canuck600
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:39 pm

Is there anyway you can penalize people who ask questions because they are too lazy to read the thread? Seeing the same questions asked over & over simply because people are too lazy is frustrating & it makes threads way longer then they should be.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:47 pm

Canuck600 wrote:
Is there anyway you can penalize people who ask questions because they are too lazy to read the thread? Seeing the same questions asked over & over simply because people are too lazy is frustrating & it makes threads way longer then they should be.


Too lazy?? Are you really going to go through 62 pages of a thread to find an answer. I think Keesje has a point.
 
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dennypayne
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:00 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
Canuck600 wrote:
Is there anyway you can penalize people who ask questions because they are too lazy to read the thread? Seeing the same questions asked over & over simply because people are too lazy is frustrating & it makes threads way longer then they should be.


Too lazy?? Are you really going to go through 62 pages of a thread to find an answer. I think Keesje has a point.


Used to be, the mods would lock a thread, start a Part 2 (or Part X, however many it got to be), and place a summary at the top of each part so that each thread would continue from there. Seems like that would be easier than continuing to manage one giant unwieldy thread.
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atcsundevil
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:03 pm

dennypayne wrote:
Used to be, the mods would lock a thread, start a Part 2 (or Part X, however many it got to be), and place a summary at the top of each part so that each thread would continue from there. Seems like that would be easier than continuing to manage one giant unwieldy thread.

That was only on the old site, because threads wouldn't roll to multiple pages. We were forced to start new threads after about 250 posts so that users didn't have to scroll forever to get to the most recent posts. The new site has pages, and users have requested that we keep threads open for longer.
 
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dennypayne
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:32 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
dennypayne wrote:
Used to be, the mods would lock a thread, start a Part 2 (or Part X, however many it got to be), and place a summary at the top of each part so that each thread would continue from there. Seems like that would be easier than continuing to manage one giant unwieldy thread.

That was only on the old site, because threads wouldn't roll to multiple pages. We were forced to start new threads after about 250 posts so that users didn't have to scroll forever to get to the most recent posts. The new site has pages, and users have requested that we keep threads open for longer.


Understood, but I think in situations like the recent crash threads it would make your guys' jobs easier to revert to that method, just in these extreme cases. Right now we see replies come in to a post that was literally 1000's of posts ago, which makes the discussion extremely hard to follow. Breaking these huge threads up and having a summary would discourage that along with the repetitive questions.
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atcsundevil
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:02 pm

dennypayne wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
dennypayne wrote:
Used to be, the mods would lock a thread, start a Part 2 (or Part X, however many it got to be), and place a summary at the top of each part so that each thread would continue from there. Seems like that would be easier than continuing to manage one giant unwieldy thread.

That was only on the old site, because threads wouldn't roll to multiple pages. We were forced to start new threads after about 250 posts so that users didn't have to scroll forever to get to the most recent posts. The new site has pages, and users have requested that we keep threads open for longer.


Understood, but I think in situations like the recent crash threads it would make your guys' jobs easier to revert to that method, just in these extreme cases. Right now we see replies come in to a post that was literally 1000's of posts ago, which makes the discussion extremely hard to follow. Breaking these huge threads up and having a summary would discourage that along with the repetitive questions.

That's definitely something for us to discuss. These crash threads haven't exactly made for a fun time for us the past couple of weeks!

The only reason we were advising against numerous specifically directed threads is because there would be a ton of overlapping discussion. It has also made for a lot of off topic comments in the past, which is difficult/annoying for us to police. Perhaps consolidating into one thread, but locking and refreshing it periodically might be the better way to go.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:24 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
That's definitely something for us to discuss. These crash threads haven't exactly made for a fun time for us the past couple of weeks!

It's not much fun for those of us who have our posts pulled, and don't know whether it's because we said something wrong, or because somebody else didn't like it, quoted us, and then added a string of expletives. I seem to recall being told that both the offensive post, and the one they quoted both get pulled.

Either that or recently I have been a very naughty boy. :lol:

atcsundevil wrote:
The only reason we were advising against numerous specifically directed threads is because there would be a ton of overlapping discussion.

atcsundevil wrote:
Perhaps consolidating into one thread, but locking and refreshing it periodically might be the better way to go.
Yes, definitely a good idea. Where do I sign up.....
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:06 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
I seem to recall being told that both the offensive post, and the one they quoted both get pulled.

No...that's the wrong way around. The offensive post is removed, and any post that quotes the removed post is also removed. That's the only way of completely deleting the offensive post.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:42 pm

I am sorry. When threads get to 5K and weeks old I lose interest in engaging or even reading. These monster threads are unbelievably complex. I vote to return to at least some subdivision threads. I can't believe the majority of the community likes these Godzillas.
 
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dennypayne
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:46 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
I am sorry. When threads get to 5K and weeks old I lose interest in engaging or even reading. These monster threads are unbelievably complex. I vote to return to at least some subdivision threads. I can't believe the majority of the community likes these Godzillas.
And lately, some of these monster topics have had the name radically changed after weeks of posts, which is even more confusing. Example: the JetBlue April 10th town hall thread, which was a ton of speculation for ages. Then the subject was changed to "JetBlue Starting Service to London" - if someone came upon that thread that hadn't already been following it for weeks, they would be totally lost. I was lost after missing a few hours of posts. That should definitely have been left alone and a new thread started.

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keesje
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:40 am

dennypayne wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
I am sorry. When threads get to 5K and weeks old I lose interest in engaging or even reading. These monster threads are unbelievably complex. I vote to return to at least some subdivision threads. I can't believe the majority of the community likes these Godzillas.
And lately, some of these monster topics have had the name radically changed after weeks of posts, which is even more confusing. Example: the JetBlue April 10th town hall thread, which was a ton of speculation for ages. Then the subject was changed to "JetBlue Starting Service to London" - if someone came upon that thread that hadn't already been following it for weeks, they would be totally lost. I was lost after missing a few hours of posts. That should definitely have been left alone and a new thread started.

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Indeed:
"Boeing 777-8/-9 Grandfathering Certification, 777X or 7X7?"

was changed / neutralized into:
"Has grandfathering been taken too far?"

by merging it with a small new thread & taking over the title. So it no longer links when the original title pops up in Google.

It seems not because of no interest, no content, no actuality & no relevenace. But too much exposure, content & relevenance. Some Boeing supporters & employees have been trying dismissing, deflecting, generalizing & obscuring ever since it was openened. While in the real world, 777x certification is becoming more relevant every day.

Boeing / FAA explored new territory on grandfathering design and requirements from the 77W on the 777x. Investigations are going on how come Boeing and FAA agreed on this approach. Dennis Muilenburg carefully referred to it, last week.

“I don't see anything there right now that would significantly alter the timeline for the 777X, but it's possible we could see something that would alter the content of the test program or how we go about certification”.

https://www.aerotime.aero/aerotime.team/22693-boeing-ceo-says-777x-not-yet-affected-by-737-max-crisis
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
VSMUT
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:52 am

Here's one I don't get.

A thread was started on a possible restart of Jet Airways, but it was shut down and posters were referred over to the Jet Airways shutdown megathread. Why? I can understand why all the 737MAX crash topics were merged into one when it just happened and a new topic was being started every hour, but the forum isn't flooded with Jet Airways topics! That means digging through 30 pages and 1450+ posts to find those tidbits of information.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1424453
 
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keesje
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:13 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Here's one I don't get.

A thread was started on a possible restart of Jet Airways, but it was shut down and posters were referred over to the Jet Airways shutdown megathread. Why? I can understand why all the 737MAX crash topics were merged into one when it just happened and a new topic was being started every hour, but the forum isn't flooded with Jet Airways topics! That means digging through 30 pages and 1450+ posts to find those tidbits of information.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1424453


It is to prevent ten more threads when virtually all of the discussion are the same. There are four or five mods trying to keep up with thousands of posts, and they've easily had 150+ reports a day alone. There isn't enough information right now to have structured, focused threads; it's all speculation and conjecture. So it simplifies the process for our limited moderator resources /time. The downsite is you can hardly find / track any developments on topics that are merged under the mega threads.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
VSMUT
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:26 pm

keesje wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Here's one I don't get.

A thread was started on a possible restart of Jet Airways, but it was shut down and posters were referred over to the Jet Airways shutdown megathread. Why? I can understand why all the 737MAX crash topics were merged into one when it just happened and a new topic was being started every hour, but the forum isn't flooded with Jet Airways topics! That means digging through 30 pages and 1450+ posts to find those tidbits of information.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1424453


It is to prevent ten more threads when virtually all of the discussion are the same. There are four or five mods trying to keep up with thousands of posts, and they've easily had 150+ reports a day alone. There isn't enough information right now to have structured, focused threads; it's all speculation and conjecture. So it simplifies the process for our limited moderator resources /time. The downsite is you can hardly find / track any developments on topics that are merged under the mega threads.


Yeah, but that wasn't really the case with the Jet Airways bankruptcy, was it? And certainly not at this point. This was only the second thread on Jet Airways.

And despite this excuse, one the first 2 pages of the civ-av forum right now I can find a whopping 4 threads on KLM:
AF-KLM Strategic Review
KLM 747 phase out
KLM 100th anniversary
KLM and Air France swap orders

Just 2 days ago there was the "KLM 100 year festivities without the 787-10" thread. One week ago there was the thread about KLM ordering the E195E2. So what exactly is the policy on merging threads and posts? Do some topics get a free pass and others don't?
 
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keesje
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:35 am

I think really no one likes those huge threads.
Sometimes mods split a topic up early, e..g. Paris airshow.
Maybe that is something to consider for 737 grounding etc.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:09 pm

keesje wrote:
I think really no one likes those huge threads.
Sometimes mods split a topic up early, e..g. Paris airshow.
Maybe that is something to consider for 737 grounding etc.

We constantly receive reports asking to combine topics into larger, general topic threads. More often than not, I err on the side of allowing the more focused thread to stand as is. But, I can assure you, there is a significant number of users who prefer larger, general topic threads.
 
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keesje
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:46 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
keesje wrote:
I think really no one likes those huge threads.
Sometimes mods split a topic up early, e..g. Paris airshow.
Maybe that is something to consider for 737 grounding etc.

We constantly receive reports asking to combine topics into larger, general topic threads. More often than not, I err on the side of allowing the more focused thread to stand as is. But, I can assure you, there is a significant number of users who prefer larger, general topic threads.


Then the question would be why? Hopefully not to drown / make topics get lost that they don't like..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:28 pm

keesje wrote:
Then the question would be why? Hopefully not to drown / make topics get lost that they don't like..

You'd have to ask them. I can imagine it makes sense for some people — less fragmentation or duplication of discussion, more free-flowing discussion, etc. I don't really have an opinion either way, so it's difficult for me to speculate.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:26 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
keesje wrote:
I think really no one likes those huge threads.
Sometimes mods split a topic up early, e..g. Paris airshow.
Maybe that is something to consider for 737 grounding etc.

We constantly receive reports asking to combine topics into larger, general topic threads. More often than not, I err on the side of allowing the more focused thread to stand as is. But, I can assure you, there is a significant number of users who prefer larger, general topic threads.


Gee, that's not something people with an agenda could possibly misuse... :roll:

Seriously, that's a pretty poor way of doing it. If topics are combined due to user requests, at least publish who requested it.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:15 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Gee, that's not something people with an agenda could possibly misuse... :roll:

Seriously, that's a pretty poor way of doing it. If topics are combined due to user requests, at least publish who requested it.

We try to strike a balance between the two camps. We can't please everyone.
 
mwhcvt
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:42 pm

Totally agree these mega threads are getting to be a joke, by all means keep a mega thread for general discussion on a topic, but don’t merge everything into these threads, I like many don’t have the time to read through a thousand posts of mostly a few members going round and round in the same argument

For new developments and news let’s go back to having new threads, it makes it far more convenient to the average user, most don’t have hours per day to sit and go through mega threads, so they just don’t bother and or end up going to other places to get their news or information, lack of moderator time is honestly a really rubbished excuse for letting the quality of content be so trashed, I’ve held and do still hold moderating positions on many pages and sites if things are that bad it might be time to get more staff in and de-mod any who are no longer giving the needed time
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
VSMUT
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:27 am

mwhcvt wrote:
Totally agree these mega threads are getting to be a joke, by all means keep a mega thread for general discussion on a topic, but don’t merge everything into these threads, I like many don’t have the time to read through a thousand posts of mostly a few members going round and round in the same argument

For new developments and news let’s go back to having new threads, it makes it far more convenient to the average user, most don’t have hours per day to sit and go through mega threads, so they just don’t bother and or end up going to other places to get their news or information, lack of moderator time is honestly a really rubbished excuse for letting the quality of content be so trashed, I’ve held and do still hold moderating positions on many pages and sites if things are that bad it might be time to get more staff in and de-mod any who are no longer giving the needed time


I have the exact same issue. The megathreads are tailored for a few posters with agendas and way too much time on their hands. The average member just doesn't have the time to read through thousands of posts, so the megathreads inevitably turn into a mess where the ones who scream loudest control the direction of the discussion.

One point of criticism that keeps coming up is that many knowledgeable members are leaving. It is safe to say that chaotic megathreads are contributing to that.
 
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UPlog
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:23 pm

Personally, I much prefer the larger consolidated threads. Makes it much to know where to discuss things and easier to follow and learn about a topic than potentially see the same exact comments repeated in multiple smaller threads on the subject.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:53 pm

While consolidated threads can get long and messy on their own, I think its a much better solution than to talk about nearly the same subject across multiple threads. I would rather have them unified.

And no, you don't need to muddle through a long thread to find what is new, that can easily be done with the site displaying new post since your last visit. Simply select "First Unread Post" and you will have it immediately displayed on the top of the page so you can continue where you left off. Quite convenient.
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RobK
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:50 pm

The mega threads need to stay as people are unable to control themselves and stick to discussing the topic as per the thread title. Several offshoots of the Max grounding mega thread have been started over the past 4 months with the author arguing that it's about some sub-topic so deserves its own thread, yet within half a dozen posts the thread has just turned into a copy and paste of all the posts in the original mega thread, often with the author participating. There have been numerous instances where people have tried to turn the lengthy Max production and 737NG production threads into another MCAS discussion/argument fest because they are unable to control themselves and quite rightly they've been swiftly reported to the mods and the mods have cleared out their nonsense in order to keep the thread on topic.

The Max grounding threads combined now stand at 219 pages (!) and having read them all on and off I can safely say that all 10,950 of those posts could be condensed to just one page as the same tired old arguments are just being rehashed over and over.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Throwing all subtopics on a big, chaotic heap with x00.000 views, 1000 posts . Centralizing..

Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:50 am

Consolidated threads are needed because too many believe they should start a new thread anytime there is a bit of new news which only ends up fragmenting the original discussion and becoming nothing but a location for the same repetitive comments.
mercure f-wtcc

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