Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
sixfootscream
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:51 am

It is a very sad that one gets censored here for holding a different view and saying something someone might no agree with. The response is simple. We are a privat website and we can chose what someone is allowed to post and what not. Sad state of affairs.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16458
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Website is over-moderated

Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:46 am

sixfootscream wrote:
It is a very sad that one gets censored here for holding a different view and saying something someone might no agree with. The response is simple. We are a privat website and we can chose what someone is allowed to post and what not. Sad state of affairs.


That's almost every site on the internet with members. If you don't like someone's rules nothing is stopping you from setting up your own site and community.
 
sixfootscream
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:29 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:
It is a very sad that one gets censored here for holding a different view and saying something someone might no agree with. The response is simple. We are a privat website and we can chose what someone is allowed to post and what not. Sad state of affairs.


That's almost every site on the internet with members. If you don't like someone's rules nothing is stopping you from setting up your own site and community.


Cool. I will enslave people in my business too. Since I my business is private and I can do how I wish.
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2343
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

Re: Website is over-moderated

Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:33 pm

“Enslave people”? Over the top much?
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16458
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Website is over-moderated

Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:07 am

sixfootscream wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:
It is a very sad that one gets censored here for holding a different view and saying something someone might no agree with. The response is simple. We are a privat website and we can chose what someone is allowed to post and what not. Sad state of affairs.


That's almost every site on the internet with members. If you don't like someone's rules nothing is stopping you from setting up your own site and community.


Cool. I will enslave people in my business too. Since I my business is private and I can do how I wish.


'Enslaved' has virtually no meaning in the context of the discussion. Might want to try a dictionary.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 12014
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:38 am

sixfootscream wrote:
It is a very sad that one gets censored here for holding a different view and saying something someone might no agree with. The response is simple. We are a privat website and we can chose what someone is allowed to post and what not. Sad state of affairs.


There is nothing stopping anyone from sharing their own opinion provided that it is posted within the rules of what we expect all users to follow. This includes not calling other users names, provoking other users, flamebait, disrespecting other users, trying to incite trouble, being disrespectful towards crew members, not properly attributing news sources and providing your own comments, etc.

You can also drop the censorship nonsense. There is one common theme of those who bring up censorship and that is those are the ones who fail to take any responsibility for their own actions and blame someone else.

At the end of the day we expect users to act in a civil and productive manner and stay within the rules. If you can’t do that perhaps it’s time you moved on
 
sixfootscream
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:44 pm

qf789 wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:
It is a very sad that one gets censored here for holding a different view and saying something someone might no agree with. The response is simple. We are a privat website and we can chose what someone is allowed to post and what not. Sad state of affairs.


There is nothing stopping anyone from sharing their own opinion provided that it is posted within the rules of what we expect all users to follow. This includes not calling other users names, provoking other users, flamebait, disrespecting other users, trying to incite trouble, being disrespectful towards crew members, not properly attributing news sources and providing your own comments, etc.

You can also drop the censorship nonsense. There is one common theme of those who bring up censorship and that is those are the ones who fail to take any responsibility for their own actions and blame someone else.

At the end of the day we expect users to act in a civil and productive manner and stay within the rules. If you can’t do that perhaps it’s time you moved on


You can literally classify anything as flamebait. Flamebait is in the eye of the beholder.
 
sixfootscream
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:47 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
“Enslave people”? Over the top much?


Censoring people? Over the top much?

No where in history has censorship ever contributed to a better society.
 
sixfootscream
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:48 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

That's almost every site on the internet with members. If you don't like someone's rules nothing is stopping you from setting up your own site and community.


Cool. I will enslave people in my business too. Since I my business is private and I can do how I wish.


'Enslaved' has virtually no meaning in the context of the discussion. Might want to try a dictionary.


No. No. It is a private business so I may enslave people. If they don't like it, they can leave right?
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16458
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Website is over-moderated

Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:16 am

sixfootscream wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:

Cool. I will enslave people in my business too. Since I my business is private and I can do how I wish.


'Enslaved' has virtually no meaning in the context of the discussion. Might want to try a dictionary.


No. No. It is a private business so I may enslave people. If they don't like it, they can leave right?


If they can leave, they are not enslaved. Nice self-own.
 
User avatar
jbpdx
Posts: 924
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:36 pm

What’s happened to signatures?
 
tys777
Moderator
Posts: 670
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:43 am

Re: Website is over-moderated

Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:04 pm

jbpdx wrote:
What’s happened to signatures?


Due to numerous issues, they have been disabled.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4802
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Website is over-moderated

Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:42 pm

I just wish we had feedback on why a post was deleted. It is annoying to go to a thread and see your post is gone with no explanation. It really makes contributing feel like a complete waste of time.
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2343
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

Re: Website is over-moderated

Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:18 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
I just wish we had feedback on why a post was deleted. It is annoying to go to a thread and see your post is gone with no explanation. It really makes contributing feel like a complete waste of time.


You know the answer to that.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4648
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:14 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
I just wish we had feedback on why a post was deleted. It is annoying to go to a thread and see your post is gone with no explanation. It really makes contributing feel like a complete waste of time.

We wish you did too. Unfortunately there isn't much we can realistically do about that. I wish we had developers who would be willing to help us with a solution to this issue, but we don't.
 
Daysleeper
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:05 pm

I just wanted to add my 2 Cents to this, after sending a PM to the moderator involved.

For the last couple of days, I have been having a conversation about possible changes to EK's order in the civil aviation forum. Well with such a broad subject there were various tangents, and we ended up discussing the 77X.s suitability in replacing the A380 - Or perhaps as the 77X was intended replacing the 77X.

At no point was anyone involved within the conversation rude, disrespectful or posting flame bait. It was a perfectly civil conversation.

But, it has now been locked as it was too far off topic....

Over moderation?
 
WidebodyPTV
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:06 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:46 pm

There's an active thread discussing AA's mass route cancellations, one of them being TOL-CLT. Can I get an explanation as to why my postings were deleted? A poster falsely claimed that the route's local traffic exceeded expectations, and that it was COVID / AA's decision to put a 50-seater and match DTW's low fares that doomed the route. This is merely a.net lore -- I posted a thoughtful response that pointed out that local traffic never made it out of the single digits, and AA was forced to compete with an abundance of low fares (in markets CLT competes with) at DTW, as it was within a reasonable drive at DTW.

The concept of moderation should not include deleting factual view points we don't agree with.
 
tys777
Moderator
Posts: 670
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:43 am

Re: Website is over-moderated

Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:56 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
There's an active thread discussing AA's mass route cancellations, one of them being TOL-CLT. Can I get an explanation as to why my postings were deleted? A poster falsely claimed that the route's local traffic exceeded expectations, and that it was COVID / AA's decision to put a 50-seater and match DTW's low fares that doomed the route. This is merely a.net lore -- I posted a thoughtful response that pointed out that local traffic never made it out of the single digits, and AA was forced to compete with an abundance of low fares (in markets CLT competes with) at DTW, as it was within a reasonable drive at DTW.

The concept of moderation should not include deleting factual view points we don't agree with.


The post that you quoted was deleted. And as a result, your post was as well.
 
WidebodyPTV
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:06 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:09 pm

tys777 wrote:
The post that you quoted was deleted. And as a result, your post was as well.


Thank you for the response! But the post I quoted (flyinryan99) is still active. It's concerning, because he's making assertions ('local traffic exceeded expectations') without providing any support -- and the hard data shows the PDEW never made it out of the single digits, which indicates his point was manufactured. And yet it's a claim that will be perpetually repeated...
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4648
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:14 pm

Daysleeper wrote:
I just wanted to add my 2 Cents to this, after sending a PM to the moderator involved.

For the last couple of days, I have been having a conversation about possible changes to EK's order in the civil aviation forum. Well with such a broad subject there were various tangents, and we ended up discussing the 77X.s suitability in replacing the A380 - Or perhaps as the 77X was intended replacing the 77X.

At no point was anyone involved within the conversation rude, disrespectful or posting flame bait. It was a perfectly civil conversation.

But, it has now been locked as it was too far off topic....

Over moderation?

We're not actually supposed to converse with users via PM with regards to our moderating duties. It actually mentions this specifically in the forum rules. Conversing via email at [email protected] keeps our end of the conversation accountable because we all see it — that's good for you and for us. I would advise you to send us an email and ask why the moderator felt the topic drifted and needed to be locked. Keep in mind that when posts are deleted, you likely never see them. Sometimes threads take more effort than it appears for us to keep them alive and on topic. At some point, we simply have to shut it down. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but that's a common theme in locked threads.

Just send us an email and you should receive a reply shortly.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4648
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:17 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
tys777 wrote:
The post that you quoted was deleted. And as a result, your post was as well.


Thank you for the response! But the post I quoted (flyinryan99) is still active. It's concerning, because he's making assertions ('local traffic exceeded expectations') without providing any support -- and the hard data shows the PDEW never made it out of the single digits, which indicates his point was manufactured. And yet it's a claim that will be perpetually repeated...

You are correct. Let me send an email to the moderator involved and find out what happened. It's possible that the original post may have needed to be removed, it's possible that your post was removed by accident, or it's possible that the reason listed for deletion was mislabeled. Just be patient and I'll make sure we get you an answer.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4648
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:22 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
tys777 wrote:
The post that you quoted was deleted. And as a result, your post was as well.


Thank you for the response! But the post I quoted (flyinryan99) is still active. It's concerning, because he's making assertions ('local traffic exceeded expectations') without providing any support -- and the hard data shows the PDEW never made it out of the single digits, which indicates his point was manufactured. And yet it's a claim that will be perpetually repeated...

You are correct. Let me send an email to the moderator involved and find out what happened. It's possible that the original post may have needed to be removed, it's possible that your post was removed by accident, or it's possible that the reason listed for deletion was mislabeled. Just be patient and I'll make sure we get you an answer.

I take that back — it wasn't mislabeled. You did have a post removed on the first page for a reference post, but your most recent post was removed with proper cause. When posting, we don't allow users to discuss moderation. That's only permitted in this forum. Saying something was "mysteriously deleted" opens your post up to deletion because it's not related to the topic. If you believe one of your posts was deleted, you should contact us to find out why. Your first post was removed because the quoted post was deleted, so, mystery solved. The second post was deleted for discussing moderation. The remainder of your reply appeared to be fine, so as long as you stick to discussing the topic, there shouldn't be an issue.
 
tys777
Moderator
Posts: 670
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:43 am

Re: Website is over-moderated

Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:29 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
tys777 wrote:
The post that you quoted was deleted. And as a result, your post was as well.


Thank you for the response! But the post I quoted (flyinryan99) is still active. It's concerning, because he's making assertions ('local traffic exceeded expectations') without providing any support -- and the hard data shows the PDEW never made it out of the single digits, which indicates his point was manufactured. And yet it's a claim that will be perpetually repeated...


My apologies. I didn't realize that a 2nd post of yours was deleted later in the thread. I deleted the first one and thought that was the post in question.
 
Daysleeper
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:38 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Daysleeper wrote:
I just wanted to add my 2 Cents to this, after sending a PM to the moderator involved.

For the last couple of days, I have been having a conversation about possible changes to EK's order in the civil aviation forum. Well with such a broad subject there were various tangents, and we ended up discussing the 77X.s suitability in replacing the A380 - Or perhaps as the 77X was intended replacing the 77X.

At no point was anyone involved within the conversation rude, disrespectful or posting flame bait. It was a perfectly civil conversation.

But, it has now been locked as it was too far off topic....

Over moderation?

We're not actually supposed to converse with users via PM with regards to our moderating duties. It actually mentions this specifically in the forum rules. Conversing via email at [email protected] keeps our end of the conversation accountable because we all see it — that's good for you and for us. I would advise you to send us an email and ask why the moderator felt the topic drifted and needed to be locked. Keep in mind that when posts are deleted, you likely never see them. Sometimes threads take more effort than it appears for us to keep them alive and on topic. At some point, we simply have to shut it down. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but that's a common theme in locked threads.

Just send us an email and you should receive a reply shortly.

My apologies: My first response was to just PM the mod and ask why, but in hindsight you are correct in that it would be better to do it via e-mail with a log of all conversations.

I have used this site for almost 20 years now, this is the first time I have ever, well I wouldn’t say complained, but perhaps highlighted the fact that moderation has gone too far.

I was under the impression this was a discussion forum, if we are bound to only discuss topics permitted within well-defined boundary’s then, cool. I can live with that, well I wouldn’t I would go somewhere else, but if that’s your thing, fine. The conversation in the thread was perfectly respectable and although perhaps deviating from the original topic well within the scope of aviation. At no time were there insults, flame bait, or the usual crap you see on the forums.

Yet a moderator chose to end the discussion. Why? We were all being perfectly civil and discussing aviation. The result is I have started a new thread, appropriately titled, and I have no doubt it will be flamed and eventually locked also. Are we just to start a new topic anytime a tangent within a conversation occurs? I mean I can, and I will. But I suspect you will end up banning me.

PS I am more than happy to email you, but I was not trying to complain. Just highlight a problem.
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2343
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

Re: Website is over-moderated

Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:05 pm

Some moderators are more pedantic than others.
 
User avatar
Grizzly410
Posts: 541
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 8:38 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:06 am

Daysleeper wrote:
Yet a moderator chose to end the discussion. Why? We were all being perfectly civil and discussing aviation. The result is I have started a new thread, appropriately titled, and I have no doubt it will be flamed and eventually locked also. Are we just to start a new topic anytime a tangent within a conversation occurs? I mean I can, and I will. But I suspect you will end up banning me.


I think I remenber not so long ago seeing myself a thread going off topic but with a potential to deserve its own topic.
I used the report function to ask to split and create a new topic with the "off topic" part. Mods did it and that was it. Everybody doing its part and job done :)

OK, maybe I don't remenber that well. But that should work this way !
 
User avatar
eastafspot
Posts: 1855
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:24 pm

Why was this thread about Uganda Airlines deleted after 1 week+ only? Was Lightsaber sleeping or is the only moderator?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1467093

This is not my video, nor my interest to advertise about airlines/friends channel (I don't even know that guy who posted that video tbh, nor it was watched till the end, after 2min I was done as it was boring, exclusively depending my point of view).

If the mods were fair, this thread should have been non-existent after 3 days only and not only now!!! Shall we discuss to only US aviation and other regional/airlines related now?
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4802
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Website is over-moderated

Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:46 pm

The truth is there is zero consistent in the moderation. I don’t care what the rules are, so much as they are applied uniformly as possible.

I had a post deleted that had a photo I took in it. It was deleted for not linking the original source… I am the original source.

But, there have been tons of posts made by other users doing the same thing and they turn a blind eye to it. If those are the rules - that is fine. But when the moderators don’t apply rules equally you get frustration.

Another example. I had a post deleted that quoted a deleted post. The moderator replied to the deleted post (it was an off topic joke, but relevant and light hearted) and his post was allowed to remain while every other post referencing the deleted post remained.

They expect us to adhere to a mind-numbingly long list of rules that would make a lawyer’s head spin - yet offer no consistency, explanation, or even self moderation of said rules.

It really feels like getting pulled over for talking on the phone while driving, and being passed by a police officer texting while driving 2 minutes later. The value in contributing here is rapidly waning.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4648
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Website is over-moderated

Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:04 am

eastafspot wrote:
Why was this thread about Uganda Airlines deleted after 1 week+ only? Was Lightsaber sleeping or is the only moderator?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1467093

This is not my video, nor my interest to advertise about airlines/friends channel (I don't even know that guy who posted that video tbh, nor it was watched till the end, after 2min I was done as it was boring, exclusively depending my point of view).

If the mods were fair, this thread should have been non-existent after 3 days only and not only now!!! Shall we discuss to only US aviation and other regional/airlines related now?

We don't always catch everything right away. Sometimes people need to bring things to our attention. Last week was a holiday week for some of us, which means a lot of us had some additional things going on in our personal lives or with our jobs or whatever the case may be. Correcting issues regardless of how long its been should be the definition of being fair, but to each his own. Ultimately the issue was corrected.

jetmatt777 wrote:
The truth is there is zero consistent in the moderation. I don’t care what the rules are, so much as they are applied uniformly as possible.

I had a post deleted that had a photo I took in it. It was deleted for not linking the original source… I am the original source.

But, there have been tons of posts made by other users doing the same thing and they turn a blind eye to it. If those are the rules - that is fine. But when the moderators don’t apply rules equally you get frustration.

Another example. I had a post deleted that quoted a deleted post. The moderator replied to the deleted post (it was an off topic joke, but relevant and light hearted) and his post was allowed to remain while every other post referencing the deleted post remained.

They expect us to adhere to a mind-numbingly long list of rules that would make a lawyer’s head spin - yet offer no consistency, explanation, or even self moderation of said rules.

It really feels like getting pulled over for talking on the phone while driving, and being passed by a police officer texting while driving 2 minutes later. The value in contributing here is rapidly waning.

I'm not saying we don't have room to improve, but expecting us to be anything close to perfect is completely unfair argument to make. If a police officer is watching cars speed past, yet chooses to stop you for speeding, does that mean it's unfair even though you were in the wrong? No. It just means you got caught and the others didn't. I have *maybe* an hour a day to read posts here — do you honestly expect me and the handful of other mods to catch everything when it's not reported to us?

We aren't paid to do this. We volunteer our time to keep this place running year in and year out. Your picture was deleted because you didn't say it's yours, and it was explained to you how it could be remedied. If you want to complain after it was explained to you how the issue need to be rectified, then that's your prerogative, but it's not helping your case that we're bad at our jobs when we explained the issue to you in black and white.

We take copyright issues seriously because that is quite literally the purpose of this site. If we don't try or best to enforce potential copyright issues, then how can we expect other sites to do the same for our images? How can we instill confidence in our photographers that we're going to protect their work if we won't protect the work of others? That's why we have very specific rules on this, and that's why we act on it whenever it is brought to our attention. That's not over-moderation, that's protecting the mission of this site. If you see posts that go against that, then it's your duty as a member of this community to alert us so that we can act appropriately. The reason it's your duty is because we aren't cops, we're users who can do extra things. We aren't immune from criticism or consequence, and we've never pretended like we could do this ourselves. If you notice issues and you choose to ignore it, then you can hardly blame us when there's no action taken.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos