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Non-Av Chaos

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:44 pm
by Jetsgo
Non-Av has become an echo chamber for left wing American politics. It would seem this forum could benefit from a Civ-Av type political mega thread. Do we really need a new thread every time Trump or Biden say something? It certainly wouldn’t be allowed in Civ Av and wasn’t allowed when ArchGuy posted about the Golden Gate Bridge and it was merged into some preexisting topic about landmarks.

Currently there are 18 different topics on page 1 of Non-Av related to Trump, Biden, or the US federal government in one form or another. Let’s clean it up or at least start applying the rules in a consistent manner.

Re: Non-Av Chaos

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:36 pm
by atcsundevil
First, Non Av is far from a "left wing" echo chamber. There's too much hyperpartisan posting on both sides. I can absolutely assure you that for every vocal left wing poster, I can name the right wing equivalent poster.

Second, a political mega thread would be extremely difficult for us to moderate. I would even go so far as to say it would be borderline impossible, it would make us miserable, and we would quickly abandon the idea. We requested the developers create a politics forum a few years ago to at least separate the chaos, but it never happened. That's unfortunately outside of our control.

To be completely honest, we (the moderators) would all prefer to ban political discussion outright. However, users want to discuss politics, so we allow it to the extent possible by limiting it to Non Av. There's nothing for us to "clean up" on the basis that you aren't a fan of the topics on the first page, and we are treating threads equally regardless of content. We aren't going to determine which threads should and shouldn't exist unless it runs afoul of the rules, and it's not our raison d'être to create threads or posts to balance out the forum. If you want to discuss something else, then it's on you to take that initiative.

Re: Non-Av Chaos

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:59 pm
by LabQuest
atcsundevil wrote:
First, Non Av is far from a "left wing" echo chamber. There's too much hyperpartisan posting on both sides. I can absolutely assure you that for every vocal left wing poster, I can name the right wing equivalent poster.

Second, a political mega thread would be extremely difficult for us to moderate. I would even go so far as to say it would be borderline impossible, it would make us miserable, and we would quickly abandon the idea. We requested the developers create a politics forum a few years ago to at least separate the chaos, but it never happened. That's unfortunately outside of our control.

To be completely honest, we (the moderators) would all prefer to ban political discussion outright. However, users want to discuss politics, so we allow it to the extent possible by limiting it to Non Av. There's nothing for us to "clean up" on the basis that you aren't a fan of the topics on the first page, and we are treating threads equally regardless of content. We aren't going to determine which threads should and shouldn't exist unless it runs afoul of the rules, and it's not our raison d'être to create threads or posts to balance out the forum. If you want to discuss something else, then it's on you to take that initiative.


Its not out of your control. Just stop moderating period until your demands are met. You're doing all the work for free anyway. Show the management that.

Re: Non-Av Chaos

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:00 pm
by atcsundevil
LabQuest wrote:
Its not out of your control. Just stop moderating period until your demands are met. You're doing all the work for free anyway. Show the management that.

Yeah, we're doing this so that the site doesn't implode, not trying to accelerate it.

Re: Non-Av Chaos

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:25 pm
by Jetsgo
atcsundevil wrote:
First, Non Av is far from a "left wing" echo chamber. There's too much hyperpartisan posting on both sides. I can absolutely assure you that for every vocal left wing poster, I can name the right wing equivalent poster.


I don't need you to assure me or show me anything. I need to you moderate the site in a consistent manner. What side of the fence you or I are on is irrelevant. The point remains, you allow 18 different political topics on the first page of Non-Av, yet a thread about the Golden Gate Bridge must be deleted merged into another thread.

atcsundevil wrote:
Second, a political mega thread would be extremely difficult for us to moderate. I would even go so far as to say it would be borderline impossible, it would make us miserable, and we would quickly abandon the idea. We requested the developers create a politics forum a few years ago to at least separate the chaos, but it never happened. That's unfortunately outside of our control.


No more difficult than the airline and geographic topics in Civ-Av. As for making moderators miserable, that's ultimately irrelevant as it's a volunteer position and your user experience is second to the members.

atcsundevil wrote:
To be completely honest, we (the moderators) would all prefer to ban political discussion outright. However, users want to discuss politics, so we allow it to the extent possible by limiting it to Non Av. There's nothing for us to "clean up" on the basis that you aren't a fan of the topics on the first page, and we are treating threads equally regardless of content. We aren't going to determine which threads should and shouldn't exist unless it runs afoul of the rules, and it's not our raison d'être to create threads or posts to balance out the forum. If you want to discuss something else, then it's on you to take that initiative.


Do you actually believe yourself when you say you treat threads equally and you don't arbitrarily decide which threads get to exist without proper communication?

The fact you took an immediate defensive stance over a suggestion to review the way political threads pollute Non-Av is strange. It shows a lack of understanding on how to moderate a website in a consistent manner and without bias. If you're not up to moderating in such a way, which it sounds like you're not based on the other threads in Site Related, perhaps it's time to hang up the keys. Until then, I suggest you learn to take constructive feedback with an open mind.

Re: Non-Av Chaos

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:34 pm
by Newark727
It doesn't seem to me that it's the moderators' decision as to what the users of the Non-Av forum would most like to talk about.

Re: Non-Av Chaos

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:35 pm
by atcsundevil
Jetsgo wrote:
Until then, I suggest you take constructive feedback with an open mind.

When you offer constructive feedback, I'll have an open mind. Your response indicates you aren't interested in being constructive, you're interested in making it clear that my experience is secondary to yours, so I won't be engaging further.

Re: Non-Av Chaos

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:35 pm
by Jetsgo
Newark727 wrote:
It doesn't seem to me that it's the moderators' decision as to what the users of the Non-Av forum would most like to talk about.


You're right, and fortunately no one here is making that suggestion.

Re: Non-Av Chaos

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:36 pm
by atcsundevil
Newark727 wrote:
It doesn't seem to me that it's the moderators' decision as to what the users of the Non-Av forum would most like to talk about.

This is exactly why we won't be considering the consolidation of threads in Non Av.

Re: Non-Av Chaos

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:40 pm
by Newark727
Jetsgo wrote:
You're right, and fortunately no one here is making that suggestion.


It seems to me that the core of your complaint is really that there are 18 threads about Trump in Non-Av to begin with. Which is not the moderators' fault, assuming each of those threads is within the rules. Lord, I'd love to stop talking about him too, but we're 6 weeks from the decision on whether he gets a second term, so it's hard to avoid.

Re: Non-Av Chaos

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:28 pm
by lightsaber
atcsundevil wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Its not out of your control. Just stop moderating period until your demands are met. You're doing all the work for free anyway. Show the management that.

Yeah, we're doing this so that the site doesn't implode, not trying to accelerate it.

Hear hear.

To others:

This site has the best aviation discussions, partially because of moderation.

One bad user can create a site melt down in 20 minutes. We've seen it many times.

We became moderators to improve a site we post on.

I do not know most of the moderators political leanings and I don't need to. What I do know is we fill a good chunk of the spectrum.

We do not moderate on politics, but on the forum rules.

Lightsaber