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MD 11
Topic Author
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 1999 10:10 pm

China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Fri Aug 10, 2001 9:21 pm

Hi,
seems, that I will fly from FRA to Hong Kong via Taipeh this winter.
China Airlines had the best offer.
How good are they? Do they have PTVs?Can I compare them with Cathay or Singapore?
Someone ever flown with China Airlines ??

Bye,

Lars
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Fri Aug 10, 2001 10:59 pm

Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
TonyBurr
Posts: 1107
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:00 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sat Aug 11, 2001 12:52 am

China Airlines does not compare in any way with Singapore or Cathy Pacific. Completely differnet flight experiences. Singapore is rated as one of the best airlines in the world and Cathy is not far behind.

Of course cost is a factor. If the costs were equal take either Singapore or Cathy. If cost is a factor you have to decide. Wonder why there is a difference in cost?
 
Red Panda
Posts: 1433
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:58 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sat Aug 11, 2001 5:38 am

Never. In terms of everything incl. services and safety.

CI is called "flying casket".

11 fatal accidents in 1 million flights (compared to 0.5 and 0.4 for UAL and NWA respectively)

r panda
 
boeingmd82
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 11:14 am

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sat Aug 11, 2001 5:49 am

Yep, China Airlines says they have one of the most modern fleets, probably because they crashed all their old stuff. I remember China crashing two Airbus 300s in exactly the same way, not far apart. (Stall on approach)

I wouldn't fly with them.
 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:43 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sat Aug 11, 2001 6:51 am

SQ: Very good service, OK Pilots
CX: Good service, Very good Pilots
CI: Very good service, Pilots ??? Oh dear.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8880
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sat Aug 11, 2001 10:31 am

They seem to have cleaned up their act lately. I flew with them from Amsterdam to Sydney via Bangkok and Taipei. AMS-BKK-TPE was an MD11 and TPE-SYD was a 747SP in Mandarin livery with an AE flight number. All flights were good, decent food and attentive service. All the landings were good, nice flight. AE901 from TPE to SYD was almost empty and I had a great sleep in the middle 4 and then watched the sun come up over the Australian desert. No complaints at all and I'd fly them again.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Spaceman
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2000 3:28 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sat Aug 11, 2001 10:38 am

I flight them all the time. Their service is reasonably good. You can have free beverage all the time, beer and other alcoholic beveaverage are all free. Their food is not too bad either with western dash or chinese food as choices. You might be able to fly on their new A340-300 out of FRA. I would choose to fly them just to fly on the new A340-300. Good luck!
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sat Aug 11, 2001 11:21 am

Flew with them once from Singapore to Hong kong. Service is quite good, but far behind from Cathay and SQ. The A300-600 i flew in wasn't good at all. Maybe because it's aged. If there are other choices, i will take others instead if CI. Might need you to pay more but flight safety is more important than money? But i see them really improving these days.

Have a nice flight no mater which you choose.

alvin
Boeing747 万岁!
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sat Aug 11, 2001 11:27 am

Hmmm.... you'd notice that most people who have never flown on China Airlines hate the airline while people who have tried them rated them "not-too-bad".

I know that CI has a tedious safety record, and everyone just looooove to hate them, but they have been trying really hard to improving the safety and they've done very well.

In terms of service, they're far behind SQ, and a little bit behind Cathay. But then we're talking about two of the best airlines in terms of service in the world! I'd say that China Airlines has approx. the same level of service as MAS or THAI...

If you're going to fly their new A340s, you'll get PTVs (first Taiwanese airline to have PTVs) in Y Class, and the direct flight from FRA to TPE. (But then you get to use the "old" terminal...

Try them, and I think you'd be pleseantly surprised.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Jimmy
 
QantasAirways
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 2:55 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sat Aug 11, 2001 5:30 pm

China Airlines is okay, though I have never tried it.
All the people that have experienced it mostly think its okay, but are a bit worried about safety.

I wouldn't worry.
They probably aren't doing well on their TPE-SYD route are they?

Regards
QantasAirways
Spirit of Australia
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sun Aug 12, 2001 10:00 pm

I flied form HKG to SIN by China Airlines
The service of China Airlines not bad. their meals are comparable.
I have heard that PTVs are installed in China Airlines' A340-300.
Now the pilots of Cathay are taking unsucessful industrial action. You have a good choice, not travel by Cathay because the pilots may upgrade their industrial action.
And all Cathay's fleets are installed PTVs at all classed except B777-200s and the A340-300 leased from Air China. I really do not know much about Singapore Airlines.
 
MD 11
Topic Author
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 1999 10:10 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:52 pm

THANKS FOR THE ANSWERS,

I WILL TRY CI SIMPLY OF THREE REASONS:
-I NEVER FLEW WITH THEM, SO I AM A BIT CURIOS ABOUT THEIR SERVICE
-MOST IMPORTANT: THE ARE THE CHEAPEST AIRLINE FROM FRA TO HKG, MORE THAN 200MARKS (90$) FROM FRA THAN AF, MORE THAN 400DEUTSCHE MARK (180$)
CHEAPER THAN CATHAY AND LH.
-I CAN MAKE A STOPOVER IN TPE.
-NEW A340 FROM FRA (NEVER FLEW A340 UNTIL THEN)


BYE
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6164
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 2:36 pm

I firmly believe that safety is more important than anything. More important than service, food, etc...
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:09 pm

I agree safety is more than anything. But I can say CI is worth trying now. They have improved tremendously.

alvin
Boeing747 万岁!
 
Guest

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:40 pm

CI's First Class recently got a 5-star rated from UK's Skytrax. (What's the website for Skytrax?)

But I'm not sure if I'll fly with CI. They almost crashed 3rd A300-600R last month at Taipei (Please do a search about it, which the news was an exclusive report), and don't forget they crashed MD11 at HKG as well.

The last time I flew a CI's B737-400 was HORRIBLE. The plane almost flipped 90 degrees during the turning process in the air.
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:43 pm

I guess what CI needs to do is to improve their safety. I don't mind flying with the kind of service they provided me before, but I'll be worried about safety concerns.

alvin
Boeing747 万岁!
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 5:48 pm

Good decision MD11! I think you'll be pleasently surprised by China Airlines!

I agree with Mr.BA... Of course safety is the most important issue here but as we can all see, CI has improved a lot since their A300 crash. So I think unless you work for their counterpart -- EVA Air, those who have the chance should try CI... maybe Jiml1126 would like to do that? Or do you work for EVA??

Cheers!

Jimmy
 
QantasAirways
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 2:55 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 7:58 pm

Ahh... Safety number one.
"safety first, quality number one"
Too bad that's not the China Airlines motto  Smile
10 dollars for anyone who knows where it is from!

Regards
QantasAirways
The spirit of Australia
Spirit of Australia
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 11:18 pm

Hi QantasAirways!

Hehe, it's obvious that the motto "safety first, quality number one" is from EVA Airways -- The Wings of Taiwan.  Big thumbs up

There's a huge sign in the TPE hanger saying that (in Chinese though..)

Am I right?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Guest

Air Taiwan

Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:54 am

So I think unless you work for their counterpart -- EVA Air, those who have the chance should try CI... maybe Jiml1126 would like to do that? Or do you work for EVA??

Actually, I don't work for EVA. And I don't work for China Airlines as well. My usual trip is : YVR-TPE-KHH.

YVR-TPE leg is always Canadian/Air Canada.
TPE-KHH leg is ALWAYS China Airlines (because of the connection time at TPE)
 
jaysit
Posts: 10185
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:56 am

Ive flown them from LAX to HKG via Taipei in Economy. Decent food, good legroom, acceptable inflight entertainment, polite FAs - no complaints. They are not as flashy and techno-savvy as Singapore, but they're comfortable and efficient. And the fares were dirt cheap when I flew them - only $ 675 R/T from LA to HKG vs $ 1300 on SQ and CX....Yes, they have a rotten safety record, but it appears that they are cleaning up their act.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Wed Aug 15, 2001 7:47 am

Not too sure if I'm right here. Did they sign an agreement with Lufthansa or somebody else to help training and improve safety?

alvin

Go, CI!
Boeing747 万岁!
 
wolfy
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2001 12:07 pm

CI

Wed Aug 15, 2001 8:07 am

You guys got it! I'm serious, almost everyone I know who have flown CI all said that CI has a great service, I mean very good. My friend who always travel from US to Taiwan on business told me that CI has a far better service than BR! And they are working hard to improve their safety, still need to give them a little more time, then they'll show you that they can do it!  Smile

My other friend who works as an CI's airport agent at YVR told me that their flts r always full, I guess CI still has its loyal PAX. As comparing to AC with CI, yeah the thing I can say is that AC can only beat CI by its safety records, but AC's onboard service and amenities are not as great as CI's, and they even charge a lot higher than CI! Well, AC's service is not bad, except those "VERY SENIOR" ladies r sometimes really rude... But CI's service is far more superior than AC's, as comparing CI with SQ, I really have no idea coz I have never flown SQ, but one day, one day I'll try it for sure!

All I wanna say here is that, should give CI a try, you guys will like it!  Smile

Just my thoughts!

Regards,

Wolfy

P.S.: Jiml1126 might see you onboard AC's flts 17/18 one day! :P
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: CI

Wed Aug 15, 2001 4:58 pm

Someone in this forum discriminate China Airlines. They seems do not know that CI is improving their safety record. Now CI do not make a crash every year. I should tell something important to you: CX flyboy claimed that he is a CX pilots.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11623
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Wed Aug 15, 2001 6:27 pm

The only thing i see China Airlines betaing SIA at is the 15" screen in F Class  Sad Oh dear. But all credit to them anyhow.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Wed Aug 15, 2001 10:22 pm

One of the most interesting facets of China Airlines is that it is run by a woman..which is rare in this industry.
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

Jiml1126

Wed Aug 15, 2001 10:37 pm

Hey Jiml1126,

Ya my other post was meant to be a joke.. don't worry about it too much...

You go to KHH often? I visit my parents every year in KHH.. maybe we can meet up one day... hehe never know...

Cheers

Jimmy
 
dab920
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 5:00 am

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Thu Aug 16, 2001 5:12 am

CXCPA,

I would not use the word... Claim.. coz I can tell you CXflyboy is a Pilot....who is discriminating CI? I would agree that Safety issue is a major factor dont you?

 
chiawei
Posts: 986
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 9:07 am

TonyBurr Is Wrong

Thu Aug 16, 2001 5:51 am

CI's service is on par with SQ and CX.

The only difference is that CI is not a safe airline. Also, CI has managed to crash 2 A300-600R. Don't know when they will crash their 1st A340.

You will be flying on CI's newest machine A340. Good luck to you. Those CI pilots and Airbus do not mix well.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11623
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Thu Aug 16, 2001 6:52 am

HKgspotter1: As for CXCPA, could you go do something usefull, like stuff your head down the bog.

Once again you are trying to get rid of someone who disagrees with you.

As to whether it's safe. I must say that a few crashes here and there (it's night time and I can't rephrase it for the life of me), does not necessarily mean that it is not safe. I think the only way you can determine that is to look at the airline's enginerring expertise and if it does crash, the reasons for the crash (and before one of you says that it's all the airline's / pilot's fault, there is always more than one cause to a crash).

I think China Airlines deserves a chance, although I suggest SIA implement bigger PTVs in F Class  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
chiawei
Posts: 986
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 9:07 am

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:08 am

Last time I checked.

CI has written off 2 A300-600R due to pilot error with loss over 500 lives.

CI also was the 1st to write off 747-400.

Within last 8 years only 2 crashes were not really attribute to CI pilot error. MD-11 crash in HKG was blamed on MD for faulty software. 742F that crashed due to engine pylon separation.

This not include many incident that did not get published such as another near disaster with A300-600R. As well as AE 738 that skidded off runway the day that SQ006 crashed.

Also, as I recall CI nearly lost another 744 last month during typhoon as pilot was trying to takeoff under severe crosswind.

I will not fly on CI unless I have to.
 
Guest

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:17 am

My other friend who works as an CI's airport agent at YVR told me that their flts r always full, I guess CI still has its loyal PAX.

Then why does CI's TPE-YVR are only 5x weekly except daily during summer? They use to have daily flights in winter.

My parents flew CI last year, and the flight is 50% empty.

-----------------------------------------------------
Air Taiwan:

I was born in KHH.  Smile

------------------------------------------------------
Wolfy:

I might take AC17/18 next year, but I would rather fly AC9800/9801... Smile
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Thu Aug 16, 2001 3:29 pm

To Dab920,
Now CI is trying its best to improve its safety standard(image). A few accidents do not mean dangerous. You should know that why the accident happen. Let look at this example, in 1999, a China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines was crashed in Hong Kong. At that moment, the weather condition fix the code of practice of MD-11 annouced by MD/Boeing. The biggest problem is that the upward wind cause the plane roll. The rolling problem cannot be fixed by the pilots. Please read the accident report.
To the administrater,
In this forum, there are some members attack someone who do not agree with them. It is time that you should do something now. I have asked you to delete such kind of message.
To hkgspotter1,
What do you mean? In this forum, everyone can express their views except the view of attacking others. If you feel my post is not useful, just ignore or suggest deletion.
Who's CX flyboy? No one knows except the admiminstrater use the IP adddress to find him. No one knows if he is really a pilot. He claims he is a pilot. But no one knows if he tell the truth. It is not a problem to use the word 'claim'. You just told the forum member where the CX flyboy is. Which plane do he fly? Is it useful? Please use your brain to think. I'm an educated person, I do not attack other without reasons.
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:20 pm

CI is really improving a lot and their service are getting real good but I think Cathay or Singapore Airlines still wins CI hands down, at least for the moment.

alvin
Boeing747 万岁!
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6164
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Fri Aug 17, 2001 2:38 am

CXCPA,

Seeing you are such an educated person, can you tell me why you seem to think I am not a pilot? Obviously I cannot give you my name and rank, as I say things on this forum that some people in management would probably not like very well.
Ask me something which only a Cathay pilot would know, and I will answer you as long as I don't give any sensitive details.
As for HKGSpotter1, I agree with him.
You also seem to suggest that I am discrminating against CI. I did not mention CI in my post. I merely said that safety is more important than anything. Do you agree? I think safety is much more important than inflight-service. Most people would agree with me.
I have never flown of CI, but I am told that the service is very good....but I do not care. Cathay's service is good. I am also told that CI is improving their safety a lot. This is probably true. I have noticed that they are very cautious in bad weather these days, and that the MD11 crash in HKG was not their fault. However, they have crashed many planes in the last 10 years, and I don't care if people say safety has improved. They have to prove it to ME before I will consider flying them. If in 5 years time they have not had any serious incidents, I might consider them. I think this is very fair. This is not discrimination....well, it is actually. I won't fly them because I feel they are unsafe. I am discriminating against them because I do not want to die.
 
wolfy
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2001 12:07 pm

Brandon

Fri Aug 17, 2001 3:17 pm

"Then why does CI's TPE-YVR are only 5x weekly except daily during summer? They use to have daily flights in winter."

They did not have the right equipment to use during the low season, B747 is hard to fill especially when BR and AC are also flying this route. Even now there are LOTS of tour groups travelling on CI, that's how they fill out their flts by lowering their price. Only in the summer more tours groups like to come to Canada.

"My parents flew CI last year, and the flight is 50% empty."

Well, were you on the flt? How do u know it was "only" 50% empty?  Smile And what season did they travel? Sometimes due to weight and balance problem, they cannot carry that much passengers onboard. So if the load on day that ur parents were travelling doesn't mean anything I think. This happens quite a lot, for example, AC7 and AC11, AC7 usually carries more PAX, AC11 usually carries more cargo. I've even heard that becoz of the weight and balance, AC11 sometimes can only carry about 50 PAX to HKG!

As far as I know, CI has more PAX loads between YVR and TPE than AC and BR in all seasons, both becoz of its price, its aircraft (A lotta ppl prefer B744), and its service.

------------------------------------------------------
"Wolfy:

I might take AC17/18 next year, but I would rather fly AC9800/9801..."

Yeah, I agree, for me, B744 for AC9800 flies approx. one hour shorter, that makes a big diff when u fly long haul, and with all the extra little amenities BR has!  Smile But too bad can't upgrade ya when I see ya onboard! :P

Hey Jiml1126 u live in YVR? Let's keep in touch then, it'll be so cool to always have someone to chat about airplanes or airlines!  Smile  Smile  Smile

Regards,

Wolfy
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Fri Aug 17, 2001 6:22 pm

To CX flyboy,
I cannot make a conclusion unless I can prove it. It is not important that if you are a pilot. And I have not mentioned who made discrimination. Your post prove you...

To all people,
Now the CX serivce turns down because of CX pilots' industrial action. They want to disrupt CX flights until CX management accept to increase the salary by 32% and 'improve rostering system'. They need to 'ensure the plane is very safe before flying'. That's mean they need more time to do the pre-flight inspection repeatly and slowly. But they do not come to airport earlier. The result is that many flights are delayed. Do this kind of action make the flights more safe? I don't think so. Their action make the passengers angry.  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad

Now CX need to cancel some flights because some pilots have 'sick leave'. But no one know if they are really ill. And they want to take the industrial action more seriously. No one knows what CX pilots will do. CX pilots also don't know because they must follow their union, AOA or their membership will be cancelled. The vice chairman of IALPA help the CX pilots to fight with the management.  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad

At this moment, CX is the worst airlines until the industrial action ends.

To ensure you have a smooth, pleasant journey, you should not travel by Cathay until the industrial action ends.

I really hope the CX pilots lose in this battle.  Smile  Smile  Smile  Smile  Smile
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6164
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Fri Aug 17, 2001 6:44 pm

CXCPA,

No-one is going to win or lose. This is not a game. If conditions improve for pilots, the pilots will be happy. We will gladly return to the good old days where pilots helped the company when they needed help. Pilots used to even fly on their birthday sometimes to help if they were short of crew. Relations need to improve before this happens again. If management are more open to talks and willing to negotiate then things will improve. If they will not even talk then how can things improve?
If this turns out badly for the pilots how do you think things are going to be like? Almost everyone in Cathay now has their own plan on where to go if things turn worse. Many have applications ready to go elsewhere and many I know are going to leave already. If many leave, what do you think conditions will be like? Cathay is already very short of crew. Good experienced crew are no longer joining Cathay and many more will be scared of joining if conditions are worse. Do you think that pilots come to HK because of the fresh air, or the chinese food?! Morale will be low, the pilots will be lesser experienced ones and thing will be miserable. Do you think things will improve in Cathay then? If you study business you must know that employee morale and empowerment is very important in running a good company. Cathay have failed in this area.
However, even during this action, Cathay still have one of the most experienced and professional aircrew groups in the world. Flights may be disrupted a little but you will still experience complete dedication in cabin service and the utmost professionalism from the pilots. However, you, CXCPA are most welcome to fly other airlines, now, and forever.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11623
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Fri Aug 17, 2001 7:05 pm

CXCPA: You could come on Singapore Airlines?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:43 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sat Aug 18, 2001 12:04 am

Singapore Air,

Do you know what you just said ???. Its rather rude !!!!


CXCPA,

How about you meet CXFlyboy and I at CLK sometime ??
I think we could solve this problem for the last time.

I hope you work for your dream CX one day. Then you will see all the crap that the staff have to put up with.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6164
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sat Aug 18, 2001 3:47 am

Yes CXCPA, I hope you get to work for Cathay one day. No doubt you would make an excellent management type, but you would have few friends. Lawyers, accountants and you. All the same.

(No offense to the lawyers and accountants of this forum. You don't deserve to be grouped with CXCPA.)
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sat Aug 18, 2001 4:04 pm

To Hkgspotter1,
I don't know what happen between the CX management and its staff. I just know that the CX pilots do not conern others. I just know that the action of the CX pilots are disgusting. If they continue take industrial action, I cannot imagine what will happen. Maybe no one want to travel by CX because we cannot have a smooth journey and then CX will be closed. The suggestion of Singapore Air is good. The service of SQ is good. Their pilots are not disgusted. They're more friendly. They do not threaten others. They do not make others scare. And I don't know who you and CX flyboy are, how can I meet you and CX flyboy. You're very funny.

To CX flyboy,
Thank you for your excellent idea. I'll not travel by Cathay Pacific until their pilots are more considerable, know the difficulties of others, what others think, have a wide view. I don't know why CX pilots want to increase their salary by 32% and better rostering system. But I know if they continue take industrial action, CX, the pilots and Hong Kong are the victims and the salary of CX pilots are very high, comparing to other airlines (source: Lufthansa pilots' union). If they feel that they are not happy to work for CX, they can work for other employers. No one force them to work for CX. I know that if pilots change employers, they cannot be captains, but First Officers and the salary is lower. But they can more happy, less stress. It's good. And they should familiar with CX before joining the team.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6164
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sat Aug 18, 2001 6:16 pm

CXCPA,

When most Cathay pilots "joined the team", Cathay was a good place to work. This is partly why the pilots are unhappy. If you tell people before they join that the rosters are bad, management are deceitful, and that you will be treated not as valued employees, but purely as money making objects with no regard for life outside the job, then when they join and find out it is true, they will not say anything. However, if management promises that you will become captain in 4 years and 10 years later some are still not captain, or if rosters are so unreliable you cannot have a personal life, or if you work hard for the company and you get repaid by being fired, it is understandable if you get pissed off.
Did you know, that in Air Mauritius publishes a roster 6 months in advance and it does not change. At Cathay, a pilot can wake up thinking he is going to a certain place that evening, then by the time the flight goes, he has already had around 6 phonecalls from the company telling him of a change of flight. Some pilots pack their bags to go for a short Asian flight and then finnd they have to fly to the other side of the world, where it is cold, with a T-shirt and shorts. This happens all the time. It is very annoying, very disorganised and completely screws up any hope of leading a normal personal life.
Also, how many times do I have to tell you, the AOA IS NOT ASKING FOR A 32% PAY RISE. I will never get 32%. Not even 20%.
Did you know that recently, AirTran pilots got up to 20% pay rise? Delta pilots got 11.3% with a guarantee rise of 4.5% every year till 2005. Delta Express pilots got up to 63% pay rise for it's pilots. 63%! Lufthansa pilots got 26%. The AOA is asking for better rosters, conditions, pay, but most of all the company must know that they can't push around their staff. We are not slaves, or school children, and they are not our teachers. We are colleagues all working in the same company. Management must treat their staff with respect and dignity. If they do not, relationships suffer. Simple as that. The sooner management learn how to manage, the sooner this all gets fixed. The AOA is willing to negotiate tomorrow is the management are . This could all end tomorrow. It's their call.
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sun Aug 19, 2001 3:09 pm

To CX flyboy,
Do you know why other pilots have a high salary increasement. The answer is simple. They went on strike to force the management to increase the salary.
And the reason for unrealiable rostering system is that other pilots have sick leaves. CX need to find other pilots to replace their position. You also can say that CX do not have enough pilots. But CX do not have choice. They're difficult to employ pilots and the salary of the pilots are too high, comparing to other airlines. You should know that not many people in HK are suitable to be a pilots. You said the AOA have not asked for 32% pay rise. But AOA annouced to the public they want to increase the salary by 32%. Can you explain?
Air Mauritius is not a good exmaple because Air Mauritius do not have many flights. And there are very few Air Mauritius charter/extra flight. You should take the examples of the major airlines in the world.
 
QantasAirways
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 2:55 pm

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Sun Aug 19, 2001 6:27 pm

Air Taiwan,
your right! That's the EVA motto, but I have only ever seen it in English.
Oh well..
Have fun on CI

Regards
QantasAirways
Spirit of Australia
 
dab920
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 5:00 am

RE: China-Airlines As Good As Cathay Or Singapore?

Mon Aug 20, 2001 2:43 am

CXCPA,
you have completely changed the subject on this thread!!!.... I thought this was about CI not CX .. in the various threads you had commented ur endless support for CX management you are so boring!!! I have read it over and over again.Fair enough you have your views and opinions but tell me something new!!!

Stick to the Subject or start your own thread!!!!

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