Overrated Or Underrateed Airlines

digitalone · Mon Aug 13, 2001 12:53 am

Does anyone feel that some airlines tend to be overrated while some are underrated? For example, while SQ and MH are fierce competitors, people tend to rate SQ a lot higher than MH although its on board services are almost, if not on par. Is it because of its publicity and advertising? what do you think? Smile

mfricke · Mon Aug 13, 2001 1:40 am

United is a highly overrated airline. Many poeple fly it as if it is the USA'a flag carrier, yet the employees are lacking morale, the flights are continuously delayed, and Shuttle is a cattle car. I choose Frontier into Denver, American into Chicago, and Southwest to Oakland instead of UA to SFO. Is this what they were hoping for wneh they so excitedly became "Employee Owned?" So much for that idea...

Guest · Mon Aug 13, 2001 2:10 am

Actually, I think United is underrated. Ever since the merger with US Airways was shot down, there have been stories on this forum of employee morale and service getting much better. United I feel is starting its comeback.

sfointern · Mon Aug 13, 2001 2:49 am

While United isn't making a quick comeback, I know personally that a lot of employees see it as a sign of relief that the US merger has fallen through. Yet still, the Flight Attendants want more money. Nothing has really changed in the management-employee relationship, but the atmosphere is a little less stressful now that the merger is caput.

United is underrated simply because it has been the whipping boy for the airline industry's problems since the Summer from Hell 2000.

While United is making onboard amenity cutbacks, it is investing hundreds of millions of dollars in services to make travel easier. We are installing large ~30" LCD information screens at the gates of our hubs, increasing our fleet of mobile ticket counters, adding self-checkin machines at stations around the country, and investing heavily in computing solutions for our passengers.

SFOintern

Shawn Patrick · Mon Aug 13, 2001 3:06 am

What are the LCD screens for, SFOintern?

sfointern · Mon Aug 13, 2001 3:39 am

The LCD screens are called "United EasyInfo". They display crucial information of a flight, such as flight number, equipment, weather conditions at the destination, flight departure and arrival times, estimated flight time, service onboard, as well as automated flight updates.

The best feature is that it gives up-to-the minute information on reasons why your flight is delayed. Wait, even better features are the splashy graphics of happy little planes and famous sights of your destination. =)

Once again, United is eliminating the middleman in all this. Just like the automated ticket readers, this innovation makes the gate agent's job less stressful, and lets passengers be more informed and thus leads to happier customers.

Shawn Patrick · Mon Aug 13, 2001 3:48 am

Great idea!

United really stays on top of new aviation technologies.

Guest · Mon Aug 13, 2001 3:51 am

Continental and Southwest are way overrated, and Northwest is underrated.

Tango-Bravo · Mon Aug 13, 2001 4:09 am

Having flown United (both mainline and Shuttle) within the past week PHX-ORD-MSP-DEN-PHX, I too observed a spirit among UA staff that causes me to think their airline may be on the right track once again. My recent experiences with UA would suggest to me that they have been both overrated and underrated, depending upon the source. They seemed to compare well with Alaska and Northwest, the two carriers with whom I have flown most frequently over the past two years.

On the other hand, I would maintain that Alaska is definitely overrated in the service rankings of U.S. major airlines, at least in coach. While I wouldn't discredit their inflight service, there is no basis I can find upon which to differentiate it from coach on NW and UA. The snack served on my recent UA MSP-DEN segment was equal to, if not slightly superior to, the so-called meal service I have encountered on AS. Even "snack pack" meals offrered to coach pax on other airlines seem to be comparable to -- if not vrtually identical to -- meals served by F/As on AS; and keeping the aisle in the cabin free of obstruction by food service trollies is, IMO, a "plus" for snack packs.

Alaska's schedule reliabilty, even in markets not affected by weather, has much room for improvement. IMO, the high service rankings AS often receives have more to do with its relative obscurity (not seen in the negative context of the media spotlight nearly as often as the majors with nationwide networks) than service that is noticeably better than other U.S. full-service majors.

Guest · Mon Aug 13, 2001 4:17 am

Delta is too overrated. I dont see how people can say Delta is the best airline when they have the following:

1.) Very Cramped Economy Seats
2.) Fast Break Service on a flight that costs over $300 when on AirTran you get a full selection of beverages and snacks, for about $150 or less.

3.) Dirty Interiors
4.) Dirty Paint Schemes
5.) Rude Airport Employees
6.) EMB-120 or ATR Turbocraps on segments that AirTran also flies on, when you can ride in a new 717-200 (Or DC-9) for equal or lesser price.
7.) High Fares even in a market with lowfare carriers.
8.) The Meal service is very cheap with those dumb SkyDeli bags, when on Continental, Northwest and United you get a meal served inflight.
9.) Delta Connection flights over 2 and a half hours serve no meals for the high price you pay.

txagkuwait · Mon Aug 13, 2001 5:52 am

Southwest overrated? I think not.

If anything, I think of Southwest as the George W. Bush airline. Competitors (or democrats) just keep underestimating them (or him) and they continue to get their lunch ate.

A case in point - a couple of years ago Southwest inaugurated service in and out of RDU.

The Midway Airlines board was a flurry of activity as Midway fans denied that any right thinking passenger in the RDU area would ever consider setting foot on one of those mustard colored aircraft. "Southwest was truly the airline for trailer trash, the dispossessed, people who didn;t know any better", they cried.

Two years later Midway is trying to redeploy their fleet, they have seen their yields in and out of RDU collapse, while the ugly plane people continue to haul money to the bank in a wheelbarrow.

There are lots of other examples where folks took Southwest lightly. USAir at BWI comes to mind. The bottom line is this:

What matters in the airline industry is not paint scheme, not employee uniforms, not a chocolate chip cookie bakced at 33,000 feet and served after they have sliced prime rib for you at your seat.

What does matter is a consistent product, delivered at a consistently fair price.

Southwest, and to a lesser extent AirTran and JetBlue....are the only carriers doing that today. That could easily be one of the reasons they made money in Q2 while most everyone else dropped a bunch.

An airline can stand a loss here and there. Airlines ultimately have to be profitable, though. They cannot go on forever losing money. Ask PanAm, Eastern, Braniff, TWA, etc

jettblasterp · Mon Aug 13, 2001 10:13 am

Funny. That airline that bakes chocolate chip cookies at 33,000 feet made an operating profit in Q2 too.

MDL_777 · Mon Aug 13, 2001 10:30 am

I only flew on Delta one time, from Atlanta to Ireland in 1994. The Atlanta to Dublin and Dublin to Atlanta flights were fine (nice, comfy L1011's). On my return trip, they flew me from Atlanta to Charlotte on a turboprop. I couldn't believe it. And because of that, some of my luggage had to be placed on a later flight. I fly mostly on United, and while I've had my share of ups and downs, it's not as bad as Mfricke would have you believe (although I haven't flown the shuttle). For example, I had a flight from ORD to LAS in November 2000 where the pilot was very positive, and even got special permission to give us a tour of the Grand Canyon at 17,000 feet when that's rarely done anymore. And I don't mean just a flyover - this was a guided tour.

deltaownsall · Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:19 am

First of all, UA isn't the only airline putting these screens in their hubs. DL has installed screens in their Atlanta hub which show local weather radar, the flight status, the stand-by list, the first class upgrade list, the confirmed standby list, and the scheduled boarding and departure times for the flights. As for DL being overrated...they have some of the cheapest fares...their plane interiors are not dirty...and I have never encountered a rude DL employee. All airlines have some rude employees, and alot of the time if they are rude it is because they are having a bad day.
DeltaOwnsAll

txagkuwait · Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:21 am

The chocolate chip cookie folks lost $4.2 Million in Q2. Granted, that's not hemorrhaging money like some folks...and after extraordinary items the net loss was only $3.something Million.

pgh234 · Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:30 am

I agree with NW-ELITE: "Continental and Southwest are way overrated, and Northwest is underrated."

I know I am going to get bashed for this by some, but Southwest is taking the fun out of flying. Before you know it, all airlines will have no service and treat you like cattle. Plus there fares arn't always the cheapest. I dont consider them a godsent like most people do. As for Continental, they are the same type of airline as US Airways, American, etc. Nothin that special to deserve the praise that they do. Northwest is mostly looked upon as the airline from hell by most people, however, everytime I have flown them and anyone else I know has flown them, we give nothing but praise. They are not a special one of a kind airline, but they are not bad either. I always get good service and happy employees. Plus their FF program is nice too.

pgh234

nwa747-400 · Mon Aug 13, 2001 1:51 pm

Underrated - Northwest

Look at their stats for the past few years and the improvment is remarkable. I am always critized when I try and bring the improvements at NW to light here on the forum so I have learned not to even bother. I know when I fly NW I am flying a great airline....and if you don't care to try them out again fine by me....MAYBE THAT WILL KEEP THE MIDDLE SEAT NEXT TO ME FREE.

My idea for the New NWA slogan:

Northwest- "Come see what you've been missing"

BH346 · Mon Aug 13, 2001 1:56 pm

Under rated:
Northwest
Southwest
Sure, their fares aren't the lowest, but without them , fares would be much higher!

BH346

jahckass · Mon Aug 13, 2001 5:27 pm

Southwest IS overrated.

They win awards for customer service ( s/p complaints). - There customers dont expect much from them so there is little to complain about.

They are the low fare airline - not in half the markets they serve, I wonder how many people get duped into paying hundreds more for airfare because they booked on the "low fare airline" Shop around.

Passenger Friendly boarding - not if your traveling with a family and not if you cant be at the airport 2 hours in advance. If you have a connection on WN then dont even think of getting seats together on the connecting flight - no matter how early you show up at the first airport. Oh and did i mention you have to be an aggressive bohemien to get into the plane.

Passenger Comfort - not unless you consider eating your knees comfortable. Or the FA's passing through the cabin 2x on a 5 hour flight.

Need I go on.....

SSTjumbo · Mon Aug 13, 2001 5:32 pm

Overrated: ATA, you're not on vacation
Underrated: Midwest Express, suprised they're not bigger

I would call UA average.

fjnovak1 · Mon Aug 13, 2001 5:42 pm

I would also say that one of the underrated carriers in the industry is Northwest. They are in the final stages of a transition from the worst carrier around with a shoddy airport (DTW) as their largest hub to a bright, shiny new terminal next January. Look for Northwest to be #1 for years to come, with more new Airbus aircraft on the way (319, 320, 330, 757-300, and 757-200ER) and over 50 new routes too I have heard. The extended-range 757s will allow for trips across the pond from DTW.

jahckass · Mon Aug 13, 2001 5:43 pm

SSTjumbo - i agree on Midwest Express, their size has a lot to do with them being underrated.

764 · Mon Aug 13, 2001 6:08 pm

Just a quick note to some of you : What in the world is your problem with turboprops ? They are usually roomier than the larger jets, they don't have much less luggage space and the fly a lot lower, giving you a way better view, especially during approach. So what is wrong with ATR, Dash, Dornier etc ?

About United : On intercontinental flights they are one of the best, while on domestic their on time performance sucks. Sure, they do have Economy Plus now, but every time I try to fly EcoPlus (I am a Premier), they rebook me on some other flight that doesn't have Plus seating, or I get to fly Air Canada instead. The friendliness of the staff varies dramatically. The main rule seems to be : On board they are nice, on ground they are not (of course there are a few exceptions). Anyway, I'll keep flying UA, as the only airline competing on my routes is NW and they are just no option for me. High fares, low service, unfreindly and usually non-english-speaking cabin crew (with NW it seems to be the opposite of UA, as their ground staff is usually fairly curteous).
One airline overrated is KLM, as they are anything but recommendable.
An airline underrated is definitely Midwest Express.

Regarding SW : They don't have an incredible service, but they are cheap and extremely reliable, so what else can you expect ?

jahckass · Mon Aug 13, 2001 6:41 pm

I expect to be able to sit with my family, I expect to get more then 2 chances at a drink when flying from OAK to BNA, I expect to have more then 20mins to connect. Of course when I fly WN i dont expect anything ( not even a good fare)

jahckass · Mon Aug 13, 2001 6:44 pm

Oh and did i mention that i expect to NOT be stuck in the fetal posistion for the duration of my flight.

Guest · Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:10 pm

Most underrated airline: Malaysian. Cheap price for a very good product and superb service.

-VA

go canada! · Mon Aug 13, 2001 8:14 pm

Overrated, Easyjet, ryanair and aiir france and delta and ansett.

underrated, bmi(British Midland) and Royal Jordian and CO who dont get enough coverage.

Singapore 777 · Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:26 pm

I totally agree with you there.

Where else in the world can you pay $410 and take 3 772 sectors, with 34" seat pitch, a PTV and superb service and food and come back on an A330? I think not many places in this world?

By the way, they're only charging something like $415 for SIN-PER-SIN return. If you are travelling on the evening service, you get either the A330 or B772 on the MH618 service to KUL and the PER services are all handled by 772s.

B744F · Mon Aug 13, 2001 10:11 pm

on european side of our planet Big grin

there are some examples:
OVERrated: Finnair, Lufthansa
UNDERrated: Aeroflot, CSA (Czech Airlines)

SK A340 · Mon Aug 13, 2001 10:14 pm

Overrated: AF
Underrated: FI

ryanair · Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:53 am

Over rated: SIA, uninterested crew that told me I couldn't have a soft drink because it was not conveniant (hour 7 of a 14 hour flight, nothing going on). Many other examples, but PTVs best in the business.

Under rated: MH is nice as is ANA. Good space, food and crews.

Guest · Tue Aug 14, 2001 1:10 am

Singapore 777, yes SIN-PER is $415 by MH during off peak but $500+ during peak. I think some PER services are handled by the 330s as I have seen them there. Not too sure about the recent changes though. I remember my first MH flight SIN-PER on 9M-MRK and 9M-MRA. It cost only $360. Isnt that cheap?

-Regards, VA

deskdriver · Tue Aug 14, 2001 2:17 am

Overrated = With out a doubt Air 2000

Underrated South African Airways

Guest · Tue Aug 14, 2001 2:48 am

Currently MAS have 12 weekly service between Per and KUL, all B772, no more A330.

airbus_330_340 · Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:03 am

I have noticed that on this board Northwest Airlines is very underrated

Guest · Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:25 am

Over rated - United Airlines

Under rated - British Midland

AF007 · Tue Aug 14, 2001 4:15 am

Before I started working at Air France, I was a bit worried by all the horror stories I've heard about their service, even stories from some employees. But now, having flown my employer several times, I can say AF is underrated. the food is far from stellar, but still pretty good for coach fare. And the cabin crews are excellent on the whole - maybe it helps that I speak French, but when I travel with anglophone friends, they are also treated well.

Can anyone give concrete reasons for thinking AF is over rated, or just bad?

toady · Tue Aug 14, 2001 4:21 am

I only speak from trans-Atlantic experience.

Over rated: United Airlines - Uncomfortable seats. Surly & disinterested FAs. Likewise with the check-in staff.

Under rated: US Airways - Spotlessly clean aircraft. Extremely smart and professional FAs. Very helpful and polite ground staff. Flight crew who keep the passengers fully informed about timing, delays, upcoming weather etc.

Flying trans-Atlantic? Choose between US Airways & British Airways.

I'll fly for the first time with Northwest in October (the choice was made solely on the price) and I look forward to seeing just how under rated they are - maybe they'll topple USA & BA from the top of my list!!

phxairfan · Tue Aug 14, 2001 4:25 am

America West is under-rated, outside the fact they don't know who or where you are, they do a pretty good job. Nice aircraft, decent food, friendly people, and the have a major hub in PHX.

Nice Tail · Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:19 am

overrated -> BA and SIN
underrated -> Virgin and SAS

UALPHLCS · Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:08 am

Overrated: Southwest

I am constantly amazed at how many people love SW. I find it amusing that people would object to the zone boarding on UAShuttle and have little problem being herded on and off SouthWest. I also find it funny that Southwest ranks so low in lost baggage complaints. Of coarse they do all of the bags are checked point to point the passager has to recheck them when connecting.
As for UA's morale take it from me, as a CSR we are still upset. No contract in over a year, we had to put up with the Summer of Hell, prima dona FA's and FO's, Mechanics on the warpath, customers naturally angry with poor ontime preformance and poor management. We are the one's who get beat up over it all, and no LCD screen (coming to 5 line stations in the fall, PHL included) are going to make up for it. So let UA continue to be the whipping boy for the US market, but eventually we'll be back.

UALPHLCS

KROC · Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:35 am

How can Southwest be overrated? I see all this backlash againt them, and while we are all entitled to our own opinions, I have to question some of htem. The Seat pitch to me in Southwest, is no different than any other economy section I have sat in. Wether is was US Airways, United, Delta, whoever. Southwest leads in fewet complaints, because the product they offer is known to the customer upfront. They don't BS you on what to expect on there flights. You can expect prompt service, friendly employee's, and a great service. When I fly, besides for the love of flying, I fly to get from one point to another as quickly as possible. I don't expect a full sleeper seat and 7 course meal. Lastly, WN does not always have the lowest prices, but they usually do. With the way fares change, its hard to always have the lowest fare. Face it, without WN, flying would be a luxury for only a few of us.

I also think Northwest in very underated. Every flight, domestic and international that I have had with them, has been outstanding. If the price is right, I will fly them over anyone else.

jaysit · Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:52 am

Underrated: Korean Air, USAirways
Overrated: Virgin (in Economy)

The rest all pretty much deserve their good or awful reputations. And, I have to disagree with the above posting: Northwest has to be the WORST, junkiest, trashiest airline in every category - a reputation it richly deserves. Dirty planes, nasty food, surly F/As....the list goes on.

ricfredo · Wed Aug 15, 2001 5:06 am

TAP-airportugal is underrated.Good food, nice people and new aircrafts.Their flights are always on time.

Guest · Wed Aug 15, 2001 6:06 am

Underrated= Southwest Airlines

The reason I think that so many complain is that a good idea went bad. SW allows you to choose your seat, but in order to keep it fair they do is in a numbered order, on first-come first serve basis, fair enough, woudln't you say?

However, the idea went bad because being in that position means that you could be separated from family, or have to wrestle with another pax to get the seat you want. It's an idea that was supposed to mean more freedom, and it went bad.

I think southwest should assign seats, let you book the seat you want, that would solve alot of problems.

HOWEVER, SOUTHWEST is NOT taking the fun out of flying. It may not be fun wrestling for your seat, granted, but look past that. They treat passengers well, they treat employees well, the SW employees obviously enjoy their job and in turn are more friendly to pax, and even tell jokes for god's sake!

I have never heard a joke on a main carrier. So I say, and I know I will be bashed for this, but I say that Southwest is underrrated, they truly are special, with a few, minor, flaws.

Overrated: UA at the time.

Aloha 737-200!! Wink/being sarcastic

VgnAtl747 · Wed Aug 15, 2001 6:09 am

United and BA are very overrated

RIX · Wed Aug 15, 2001 6:28 am

Yes, TERRIBLY overrated... Big grin

Ilyushin96M · Wed Aug 15, 2001 6:40 am

I think a good number of the posts on this topic have more to do with individual's experience, rather than a sum of the whole. For instance, I've had good flights on NWA, and couldn't understand why everyone complained about them so much. Then recently, I had four flights with NWA, all of which I considered below average. Then there's Midwest Express, which consistently delivers a first-class product and will be my choice from here on out. Despite the fact that f/as say they've gone downhill because they don't offer a selection of meals, are cutting costs, etc. I think it's more opinion than anything.

Based on what I've seen on this forum, however, I will say I still find Aeroflot to be continually under-rated. They now provide service which is up to European standards, yet so many people still lambast them for their Soviet-era history.

KROC · Wed Aug 15, 2001 6:57 am

Jaysit. 2 weeks ago, I took a round trip flight from ROchester NY to Manchester NH, via Philly and LGA on USAirways, and there planes wore crazy dirty. Crap all in the seats, tray tables with food crusted and stuck to them. Dirty floors (on a morning flight!), rude service people ect. Goes to show you one mans dream is anothers nightmare. I do agree with you on Korean Air being underrated though.

WiLdmanVzla · Wed Aug 15, 2001 7:15 am

Overrrated: AMERICAN AIRLINES (the worst experience you can "enjoy")

Underrated: SINGAPORE AIRLINES (It's a lot much better than what the best commentary can say!!)

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