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FlyBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri May 05, 2000 2:08 am

JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Tue Aug 21, 2001 10:22 am

I just tried to book a round trip from JFK-OAK. The booking was midweek with Saturday night stayover. It cost $300, not including taxes (which added about $20, I bet, to the cost of service). And Southwest was even worse - $400 roundtrip. Outrageous!

I checked on my good old favorite Continental Airlines and they gave me a flight from EWR-SFO that only cost $326.

JetBlue is only incrementally cheaper than Continental on that route. And Continental has something like 6 or 8 flights a day on the EWR-SFO route so that if there's bad weather I can get a route around. Neither of the low fare carriers have a frequent flyer program that works with international flights.

Worse, with Southwest you pay more, get no meal, and have to transfer your own bags. Both of the low-fare carriers go to the outlying airports instead of SFO and both of them start at the most inconvenient places.

What a ripoff. Low fare carriers should charge WAY less in order to be worth the inconvenience involved with using them.
 
sccutler
Posts: 5843
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Tue Aug 21, 2001 10:31 am

This topic has been hammered to death.

I am not so familiar with what JetBlue offers, but as to WN, they never claim to be the cheapest. But it does not take a rocket scientist to discern that, if you do not have the luxury of advance purchase time, you cannot get the sort of fares you mentioned on traditional carriers.

If I have time, I'll offer examples.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6199
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Tue Aug 21, 2001 12:03 pm

It is very true that jetBlue and Southwest are not the cheapest. Transcon on WN especially. But the fact is that, although the majors match (or beat) the fares offered by these two, the restrictions are much more severe. In addition, when a low cost carrier pulls out of a market, the majors raise prices substantially.
BTW, I have not forgotten the others, past or present. Just not necessary to list them all for this post.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
MCOtoATL
Posts: 448
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 1999 12:01 pm

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Tue Aug 21, 2001 12:09 pm

I agree that at times, the low-fare carriers are not that much cheaper (if at all) than the majors. But that's often because the majors will lower their prices so that they cam compete with the low-fare airlines.

Southwest, for example, may not have the lowest fares out of a given market (because the others match or even undercut them on some routes,) But if SW was not present in that market, then the majors would be guaging the public. That's why city leaders do so much promotion to attract Southwest to their areas.

As soon as SW enters a market, for example, they say that all airlines immediately lower their fares. They call this the "Southwest Effect," even if SW does not end up with the lowest fares at all times (they caused the lower prices in the market.)
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Tue Aug 21, 2001 12:34 pm

Why do you think COA gave you that great fare, moron!? Because low-fare carriers DRIVE DOWN THE PRICE. And the majority of the time, they are cheaper. An expensive low-fare airline is the exception, not the rule.
Dear moderators: No.
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2633
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Th

Tue Aug 21, 2001 12:48 pm

We're Nuts --> Please refrain from demeaning other members by calling them names. Your point would have been no less emphatic had you not used the word "moron". We appreciate your valuable opinion, but you should be setting an example to the younger members in this forum. Shame on you!

Peter
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5026
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Tue Aug 21, 2001 12:51 pm

I work for an airline, and being that, I can look up fares for not only my own, but also for other airlines.

you may think that CO may have given you a better deal, but I kid you not, you better get a loan if you dont book ahead.

on Jetblue, the highest fare is $320 each way ONT-JFK,
where as on CO, you are looking at $1820 each way, for full Y Fare. For First class, you are looking at $3000 each way.

The reason why many people go to the airports that these airlines go to, is not becuase there is a market there, but becuase of the ease of access to that airport, instead of having to sit in traffic, etc etc.

Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Th

Tue Aug 21, 2001 12:57 pm

Well you haven't been here long, so I can't blame you for not knowing me. But if you did know me, as FlyBoeing does, you would realize that I kid. Hence the name "We're Nuts", hmmm? I rarely insult when I think the person will actually be hurt.

Sheesh, I don't know why I'm explaining myself to you....

And keep the moderating to Gary and Johan. Last thing we need is another one.


P.S. "We"? Are you the Queen, now?
Dear moderators: No.
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2633
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Th

Tue Aug 21, 2001 1:07 pm

1. I must agree with you. Your name fits you.

2. Yes, I haven't been here long.

3. I don't get the "we" bit, but I am sure it has to do with #1.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Th

Tue Aug 21, 2001 1:09 pm

We appreciate your valuable opinion
Dear moderators: No.
 
railmatt
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 1999 12:48 pm

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Tue Aug 21, 2001 2:06 pm

Its actually outrageous you can fly transcon for what, 7000 miles, for anything less than $500 ever.

Someone else is subsidizing that ticket.

 
User avatar
johnboy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Tue Aug 21, 2001 5:51 pm

Once again, I'm reminded of the billboard on Hegenberger Road on the way to Oakland Int'l Airport (and I paraphrase a bit):

Southwest Airlines -- If we didn't exist, would low fares?
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Tue Aug 21, 2001 9:01 pm

Okay...price this - PHX-COS leave Monday morning and come home Friday afternoon (what businessman in their right mind would want to spend the weekend away from home to save the company a couple of bucks?). Time is valuable, so only book a nonstop. ANd this particular trip is for a conference, so you know 21 days in advance that you'll be going. Oh look, the fares a bargain at $664, round trip. But lets say that the conference location got moved to Nashville. Still 21 days out, but we're willing to change planes. Hmmm....$229. But wait!!!!! Southwest offers several NONSTOP flights for $189 round trip.
 
Boeing757/767
Posts: 2183
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 11:05 pm

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Tue Aug 21, 2001 9:09 pm

Let's keep this all in perspective. We're spoiled. In the early days of aviation we'd pay the equivalent of three times more for the flights we have today. If you want to fly, budget for it. Geez...
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
N509JB
Posts: 486
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:20 pm

Your Welcome!

Tue Aug 21, 2001 9:32 pm

Your welcome!

N509JB
 
charlieduke
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 12:28 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Wed Aug 22, 2001 12:23 am

FlyBoeing-
Did you try booking on the Southwest web site? I just checked, and their lowest fare is $202+ $44 in taxes and pfc's.

CD
 
Guest

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:23 am

Well, I would take jetBlue if it was not too expensive. Pretty good airline.
 
FlyBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri May 05, 2000 2:08 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Wed Aug 22, 2001 3:57 am

Charlieduke:

Southwest's website calls for $200 each way with stops and no catering service.

And yes, all of you are correct in noting that CO does have obscene unrestricted fares compared to WN and jetBlue. Their unrestricted fare between EWR and SFO is $2,400 or so... out of the question for a poor student. Thank God for those guys.

But I still think that Southwest and jetBlue ought to compete by saying that they have lower average fares rather than saying that they are always lower. Because occasionally they're not.

I like Southwest - don't get me wrong. And despite the fact that my airplane maker failed to latch onto jetBlue, I have a grudging respect for them. I was just surprised as hell when I found out that I could get convenience plus service and a low cost.
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 4207
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Th

Wed Aug 22, 2001 4:25 am

An important point to keep in mind: this year, the Cartel-Six Families carriers are offering a lot of leisure fares that are similar in price to the low-fare carriers' fares. This is because business travel is off and fewer people are willing to pay their insane $500-$2500 domestic coach fares. As the Air Transport Association flack economist Swieringa admitted recently, the Cartel would find it more expensive to retire lots of a/c than to slash fares and get at least some fannies in those seats.

As soon as the economy firms up, the Cartel will hike more fares again. I suspect they'll have a harder time getting the obscene fares they regularly charged in the heady late 1990's, but they'll up fares to feed their high cost structures as soon as they can get away with it again. Delta's elimination of the saturday night stay restriction on many fares, is evidence of their desparation.

These low leisure fares aren't going to last long. Fortunately, the low-fare carriers are low enough on most routes that they'll continue making lots of money as they have been.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Kubla
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2001 1:06 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:37 am

I'm confused. Southwest's website lists promotional roundtrip fares of $198 (Tues/Weds/Sat) and $238 (Mon/Thu/Fri/Sun) ISP-OAK.

Maybe these are already sold out for the week FlyBoeing wants to travel. I would expect Southwest's cheapest inventory to go sooner than a major's because it is so darn cheap. But fares like this are what keep CO at around $300, no doubt about it.
 
FlyBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri May 05, 2000 2:08 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:41 am

According to WN's homepage:

Promotional Tue/Wed/Sat:
One-way fare. Roundtrip travel required.
Seats are limited.
Seven day advance purchase.
Ticket must be purchased within one day of reservation. On-line reservations must be purchased at time of booking.
One night stayover required.
Fare is combinable with other combinable nonrefundable fares only.
Nonrefundable.

That fare sure isn't cheap.
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:05 am

I just went to New York City for forty-seven dollars. That's cheap.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
Kubla
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2001 1:06 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:10 am

Ahh, I see the problem. Southwest's web site is confusing on fare conditions. Some fares are marked as being roundtrips on one page, then you click on them and it tells you it's a one-way fare.

So to check, I went to their reservations section and actually priced out some roundtrips...the cheapest one they have is $223.50 with PFCs and taxes. But it's not available on many dates until you get past the middle of October.

For an example, you could leave 16 October and come back one week later for this price. You'd fly ISP-BNA-OAK and OAK-BNA-ISP. On other days, you'd have to do a 3-stop flight to get the cheapest fare. The farther out in time you go, the more dates have the single connection available both ways for $223.50.

Next time, you might want to actually price out itineraries to see exactly which fares are available on which dates. You don't have to buy them to see the final fares with taxes and PFCs added in.
 
FlyBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri May 05, 2000 2:08 am

RE: JetBlue And Southwest - Not As Cheap As You Think!

Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:39 am

That is true. I did check the price and for my itinerary the lowest fare was $320 excluding fares. You'd go on different fare basises different times.

That's still crummy but I can see how costs go down.

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