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BA
Topic Author
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Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 8:51 am

What do you all think are the TOP 2 aircraft for a start-up airline? When I mean top 2, I mean top 2 types. Like 737 and 757, or CRJ and EMB-120, etc.

Now please, lets not let this turn into a war. Let this be a civilized peaceful discussion.

Now there are MANY different combinations that are great a start-up airline.

I think the 717-200 and 737-700 are both excelent aircraft for a start up airline. Similar to the approach that Frontier Airlines is taking, A318s and A319s, except without the range of the A318.

I know, the 717-200 and 737-700 are not exactly something affordable for a start-up airline, but they could lease them.

What do you think are the top 2 aircraft combinations for a start-up airline?

REMEMBER, CIVILIZED DISCUSSIONS ONLY!

Regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Superfly
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 9:12 am

TU-334

It's a lot cheaper than it's western counterparts.


For western a/c, I'd say the 717 or A319.

You can always go with low airframe DC-9s/ MD-80s or 737-200 or 300s.




Bring back the Concorde
 
airbus380
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 9:13 am

Either some 737 variant or a narrow-bodied Airbus.
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 9:18 am

Remember, you have to pick 2 aircraft.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Guest

RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 9:20 am

Small jets are usually the choice, like 737 or 320.

Unless if you want to go BIG, like Virgin Atlantic or EVA Air.
 
tupolev154b2
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 9:57 am

I would say the 73G for its size and range and possible options of obtaining larger aircraft in the A320 family when necessary. It also allows airlines to go for larger aircraft or the 717 if they need to. The 717 IMO is the best aircraft for an airline that is seeking to have new, quiet and efficient aircraft that can operate many cycles in one day but if an airline decides that the 73G's range is necessary it can select it.
 
DeltaRules
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 9:59 am

For a cargo airline- L-1011s or DC-10s (there are TONS in the desert), and the 747-100 or 200. All are reliable, and would be good temporarily until you could afford newer jets. 707, DC-8, DC-9, 727 would be good too. Convair 880/990s maybe?

Regional Airlines- Canadair Regional Jet or EMB-145, and as a turboprop, EMB-120. It seems to me that the Brasilias are disappearing, and they are nice planes.
The EMB-145 literally whispers ( I couldn't hear the engines when I was on it, and we started taxiing. The engines were on.) The CRJ seems to be popular and reliable, and is also nice. Can't count out the Dornier 328.

Passenger airline- If you didnt have a lot of money, pick up a 727 or DC-9 secondhand, they are both reliable and at one time were popular. (the 727- "The World's Favorite Airliner" at one time!!) Once you got bigger, (or if you were big in the first place) you could get second generation 737s, maybe a version of a 757, or either 717s or a narrow-bodied Airbus variant (everyone's way of thinking!)

DeltaRules
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
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chepos
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 10:41 am

Older variants of the 737, especially the 737-200 and 737-300.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
MDL_777
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 11:03 am

For a startup airline, I would think that fleet commonality would be important in terms of maintenance and training. That's why I would go with the 737NG family - plently of options at that type, depending upon the routes and capacity. Also, the 717 would be an excellent complement to the 737.
 
767-332ER
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 11:06 am


Definitely a good 737-300/400 or an MD-88/83. A few years of service (5-10 yrs) and they are in their prime.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
HyperMike
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 11:12 am

i believe that the dc-9 and 737-200 are the ones that seem to be grabbed by startup carriers. valujet, legend, and vanguard all started with one of these two types of aircraft.
 
MCOtoATL
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It Depends

Wed Sep 05, 2001 11:35 am

It depends upon the intent of the question. Do you want to know the most popular aircraft for startups? If so, then over the past decade it would have to be the 737-200 and the DC-9. This is simply because of cost, availability, and reliability. Let's face it, very few startups have a great deal of money. They are looking for the aircraft that they can get their hands on for the least amount of money.

Or do you want to know what would be the best choice if you had any amount of money? In that case, I would say the 737-800 or A-320. The 717 would also be a great choice. You are seeing the majors go to more frequency, and thus the smaller planes (including regional jets) are starting to beocme more popular, as are the delays and air traffic that comes with the increased frequency.
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 12:30 pm

BAe-146 or an early o/p aircraft.
I don't know, so this is my signature.
 
mandala499
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 2:53 pm

From what I've seen...

732 and Yak42s ! Although I would have preffered 733/4/5 and Tu334.

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 2:57 pm

Ask Ceilidh,

He's the expert on starting airlines. I think you will find the best thing for a start up carrier would be 40 ex Delta L1011's.
 
AFC_Ajax00
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 3:08 pm

I think the best aircraft for a start up airline would be an 767-300ER and a pair of 737-800's
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward; for there you long to return
 
Guest

RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:01 pm

Depends how much money you've got behind you and the markets you want to serve. If you've got little money and are operating trunk long haul routes then yes, ultra-low capital cost aircraft like the L1011 or even DC10 make sense; if you've got megabucks and you're operating domestic then the A320 or B737NG.

Personally, if I had loads of cash and I was doing a combination of long haul and regional, I'd probably go for a combination of B757 and B767.
 
Samurai 777
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:41 pm

The 737-200 and the L1011 are the top two jet aircraft for startups to use, particularly when starting small.

Do you realize how many startups, especially discount carriers, started with 732s? Look at Southwest, WestJet, Vanguard and Ryanair for example (JetBlue really bucked the trend, but that's only because it had a lot of capital to start with).

For startups requiring long-range ops, the L1011 is the way to go. The L1011 was a fine aircraft, probably even better designed than the DC-10 was, although personally I still wouldn't hesitate to fly on a DC-10 if I have to. It's just that the L1011 appears to be more reliable in needing less maintenance.

Both of these aircraft types are reliable and cheap. A secondhand 732 could go for as little as $2.4 million US, maybe even lower. Yet these are safe and very airworthy planes. I have never had any problems personally with the 737-200, as I've flown on it countless times with various airlines, most recently with WestJet and Air Canada.
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Thu Sep 06, 2001 6:27 am

I think the top 2 aircraft for a start-up airline is one that seats 100 to 110 passengers, and an aircraft that seats 125 to 130 passengers.

Here is a list of good aircraft that seat 100 to 110 passengers (this list does not include RJs):

A318
737-200
737-500
737-600
717-200
DC-9-30

Lets say money isn't an issue, of these 6 aircraft, which do you think is the BEST choice for a start-up airline? In my opinion its the 717-200. You really don't need the range of the 737-600 and A318 for a 100 to 110 seat aircraft, so I believe the 717-200 is the best choice. The 737-200 and DC-9-30 are great choice too, however if you can afford to buy/lease brand new aircraft, then you might aswell as these older aircraft will cost more to operate than newer 100 to 110 seat aircraft. The 737-500 is also a good choice if the airline can't quite afford a brand new aircraft. I understand there are many Russian airliners that fit this catagory too, but I'm not too good with Russian airliners, so this is why I left it off the list.

Here is a list of good aircraft that seat 125 to 130 passengers:

A319
DC-9-40/50
MD-87
737-400
737-700

Lets say money isn't an issue. What do you think is the BEST 125 to 130 seat aircraft for a start-up airline? In my opinion its either the A319 or 737-700. The MD-87 and DC-9-40/50 are also a great choice, but if the airline can afford to buy/lease brand new aircraft, they might aswell since newer aircraft are cheaper to operate than older aircraft. The 737-400 is also a good choice if the airline can't quite afford a brand new aircraft. I understand there are many Russian airliners that fit this catagory too, but I'm not too good with Russian airliners, so this is why I left it off the list.

If I were to start-up an airline, I would go for the 717-200 and 737-700. The A319 is also a great choice too, but I would rather try to maintain commonality since the 717-200 has some similar technologies with the 737-700.

Regards.

"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
CanadianDC10
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Thu Sep 06, 2001 8:58 am

I think the top two aircraft for a start-up airline would be the 737-200, 300 or 400 and the DC-9. It's not to expensive to buy these 2 aircraft and i know that AirTran started with those ones and today they are very successful.
 
srbmod
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RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Thu Sep 06, 2001 5:28 pm

What's interesting about Valujet is that they originally had intended on using 737s, which explains why Critter (the Valujet logo/mascot) looked like a 737, but at the time (late 1992, early to mid 1993) there were not enough 737-200s available on the open market (many of the majors had not yet started to retire them), so they went with the DC-9, with many of them being ex-Delta a/c (Delta had been retiring them since the early 90's), and a quanity of them were available for them to lease/purchase at a good price (Valujet was launched with a budget of between $5-10 million dollars). As for any startup today, JetBlue raised the bar, and then some! If I were to start up an airline today I would use either the Dc-9 or the 737, a good number of them are available on the market today, and one could pick up a few for under $10 million dollars. I read that one can pick up a DC-9-32 series for a million and some change.
 
filex23
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 2:55 pm

RE: Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline.

Thu Sep 06, 2001 5:33 pm

EIther the MD88 and 737-700
or A319 and A318

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