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TWA717_200
Topic Author
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 3:19 pm

Okay, Southwest is an all 73X fleet. But, if they were to start operations today, they could very well be an all 717 fleet. Lots of short hops with minimal segment length.

With that said, what's keeping Herb from placing the largest order of 717's? Is it just fleet commonality?
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Wed Sep 05, 2001 9:34 pm

Ummmm....




Yes.


The 717 is perfect for the Southwest operation. Unfortunately, it's about 25 years too late. Plus, with WN doing transcons now, it would be even harder to justify adding 717's.
 
HyperMike
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 1999 7:03 am

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Thu Sep 06, 2001 7:45 am

Ummmm.... no. Part of the reason Southwest went with the 737 was because Boeing actually had two of them on-hand.

Unless AA returns a few of the TWA 717s, history won't repeat itself.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Thu Sep 06, 2001 8:06 am

>>>With that said, what's keeping Herb from placing the largest order of 717's?

A huge resevoir of common sense for not monkeying with a formula that's worked just fine for 30+ years...

But, hey, I could be wrong...  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ABQ757
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 1:06 pm

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Thu Sep 06, 2001 8:20 am

I have to go with OPNLguy on that one. The recipe for success can't have any ingredients added later. It's like adding salt to Kool-Aid.

Gabe
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5181
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Thu Sep 06, 2001 8:58 am

Is Southwest ever planning to break its 25+ year 737 "alliance"? The 717 would seem like a perfect replacement for its 737-200s when they are retired (it's unlikely though.)

Or maybe the A319/A320 combo...?? Frontier was all 737 until they ordered some A319s (I think it was.)

DeltaRules
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
tupolev154b2
Posts: 1269
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 9:01 am

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Thu Sep 06, 2001 10:03 am

SWA recently placed an order for like 200 737-700's so they can replace the -200's with them or with -600's. They will NEVER go Airbus.
 
777D
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:27 pm

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Thu Sep 06, 2001 10:17 am

DeltaRules,

I believe Frontier is not even close in the size and influence that WN currently has at it's disposal. The saying state, "Why fix something when it's not broken?"

Wn has the upper hand in negotiations with Boeing regarding 737s I believe. I bet Boeing gives them a hefty discount and will continue as long as WN remains an all Boeing or 737 fleet.

What is the fleet size of WN....couple of hundred 737s? Frontier 30?

Just my 2 cents............
 
HyperMike
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 1999 7:03 am

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Thu Sep 06, 2001 10:17 am

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

Southwest will fly the 737 as long as Boeing makes it. More accurately, Boeing will make the 737 as long as Southwest flies it.
 
TWA717_200
Topic Author
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Thu Sep 06, 2001 2:20 pm

Okay, one of you guys or gals with a talent for Photoshop get busy and do a WN 717.

I'll email it to Herb and it'll be a done deal.
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8138
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Thu Sep 06, 2001 11:24 pm

WN will never deviate from a 737 fleet for one reason: fleet commonality.

Flight crews, cabin crews and gate servicing crews and hangar maintainance crews are so used to the 737 that it would be too expensive to go with another plane.

Mind you, if Boeing had turned the 7J7 project of the late 1980's into a real airplane I would guess that WN would have no choice but to order that plane, though.
 
wn700driver
Posts: 1475
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Fri Sep 07, 2001 1:57 am

Wow,

A post that is right up my alley. Airbus?! Who said that? Over Herb's cold dead body. You can add the other 1100 or so WN737XH4 drivers too. I can tell you right now, the only possibility of a fleet update would have been the 757 - "1H4". But, due to the 800 & 900 '37 series, that will most assuridly never happen. I know a few years back there was serios talk of procurring 5-10 747-SRs (a la JAL & ANA) for high density routes such as BWI-BNA, MDW-LAS, LAS-LAX, & on and on. While never official taken off the books, I would say that those plans are on hold for a while. I can tell y'all this much.

There is deffinately some truth to the rumor about us working out some international routes (BDL-LGW & DUB, BWI-LGW, DUB, YYZ & FRA), as well as Hawaii & Alaska. If/when that happens, likely those will initially be run by 7H4s, but the possibility does exist that 777s MAY be brought into the equation (their flight deck has about 75% comminality w/ the 737-700s --which is actually greater than that found between the A320 series & the A340 series; interesting, eh?). Hope you all can use & enjoy the info. Personally, I think it's rather exciting to be in on. Peace to All
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
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johnboy
Posts: 3107
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Fri Sep 07, 2001 3:00 am

Normally I can't stand to read garbage on this board, but when it's such heartfelt and official-sounding garbage, I really get a kick out of it. Thanks for the posting WN700Driver. Truly and seriously.
 
woodsboy
Posts: 900
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 5:59 am

RE: WN700Driver

Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:02 am

Get on the stick and tell the Southwest management that Alaska would love to have some competition up here from Southwest. Especially in Fairbanks where Alaska Scarelines is your only choice come November 1st when Delta pulls their ANC-FAI service for reasons still very much a mystery to us here who have a hard time getting a seat out of here 5 months of the year!

Alaska Airlines no longer even tries to be on time of keep track of your luggage, its really rather embarrasing for me, a former AS employee. Anyway, Alaska would be a great expansion for WN, the SEA-ANC corridore is absolutely jammed packed and Alaska Airlines just rakes it in with little more than one or two flights daily from United, TWA, America West, Continental, Northwest and Delta to contend with. Well, Delta and Northwest have more than that but they dont really compete with AS since they do MSP/ATL /SLC nonstops.

Just my .02 cents worth!
 
Authority
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 4:12 pm

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:33 am

Sounds good to me.
 
Sinlock
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:55 am

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Fri Sep 07, 2001 9:22 am

I love it when people see this for the first time.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © John P. Stewart




Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Axel Juengerich

 
n521na
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2001 6:51 am

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Fri Sep 07, 2001 9:29 am

Those 727s were never owned, they were leased. Southwest hasn't owned anything except 737s.
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6199
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Fri Sep 07, 2001 11:11 am

Southwest hasn't owned anyting but the 737? Somewhat correct except for the fact that they bought Muse Air and therefore owned DC-9-50s and MD-80s.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Guest

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Fri Sep 07, 2001 11:24 am

I love this topic because I love WN. I don't think they will be flying anything but those cute little 737's for years to come.  Laugh out loud
 
TWA717_200
Topic Author
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Fri Sep 07, 2001 11:48 am

This 2 star rating is killing me...

I play 20,000 Venuties to the person that gets me to 4 stars....

On another note, thanks for the replies.  Smile
 
Guest

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Fri Sep 07, 2001 11:56 am

I can't imagine why it's rated a "2", but who cares! I enjoyed this topic. I don't think people really pay any attention to the ratings. I know I just go by the topic and I LOVE topics concerning WN.
 
EIPremier
Posts: 1468
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 8:17 am

RE: Woodsboy

Fri Sep 07, 2001 3:02 pm

Alaska Airlines no longer even tries to be on time of keep track of your luggage, its really rather embarrasing for me, a former AS employee.

Hmmm...maybe that's why Alaska Airlines has earned the #1 ranking in the DOT baggage handling ratings among the ten major airlines EVERY single month during the past year. And if you recall, AS really turned things around in the baggage department a couple years back, cutting lost luggage by more than 60% in a matter of months.

I do however, totally agree with you about competition...

The fares up in Alaska are ridiculous (especially on those short-hops up and down the southeast coast). Unfortunately, Alaska is so isolated from the rest of the US that it really doesn't make financial sense for any of the big hub-and-spoke carriers to serve the region.

Southwest, with it's point-to-point route system, is a slightly more likely contender, but I still can't see them doing it. WN would basically have to set aside a dedicated fleet with upgraded nav systems and gravel kits for their intra-Alaska service. As WN is all about standardization, this would certainly mark a departure from the business formula that had offered them so much success over the years.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: All Of This 717 Talk Has Got Me Thinking WN.

Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:25 pm

WN700Driver's mention of WN studing 747 Domestics for heavy routes is quite interesting. It does make some logical sense in terms of practicality (look at how they use them in Japan), but such a move really contradicts the Southwest business model. And the talk about a few international destinations down the road, I thought one of WN's VPs said that they had no plans for international services at all. That too would really contradict the business model as well, in fact, it moves them into the dangerous waters that PeoplExpress sailed into. Not to compare the two airlines, but I think that Southwest could be successful as an international airline, but it would take too much tweaking of the formula to do as such. They would have to to develop some form of meal service on flights (I don't think peanuts would suffice for pax on a BDL-LGW flight, which would raise their cost structure, but they probably could still beat any of the competition on the route. This was what PeoplExpress had to do on their Transatlantic service. Low-fare transatlantic service is VERY risky for airlines. Margins on such routes are razor thin as it is, with even the major carriers having great load factors only a few months out of the year on many routes from the U.S. to Europe.

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