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PanAm747
Topic Author
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Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Fri Sep 28, 2001 9:44 pm

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n521na
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2001 6:51 am

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Fri Sep 28, 2001 11:03 pm

I agree
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Fri Sep 28, 2001 11:14 pm

I don't. While I understand-after seeing it firsthand-that paranoia has reached idiotic levels with flight crews wontonly saying they won't carry someone who has dark skin and speaks with an accent, I think it would be a waste of taxpayers money in Utah if they went through with this suit. The final decisions on have been made by the captain, in every instance I've seen or heard about, and if the state of Utah thinks it's going to usurp the captain's right, indeed, his duty to do what he thinks is best for his ship and/or crew, I think they're mistaken. I don't condone what has been going on, but a lawsuit over it is just stupid.
 
Twotterwrench
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2001 5:57 pm

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 12:00 am

The captain has final authority over who goes and who doesn't. It's the classic "we reserve the right to refues service" as printed on the back of each and every ticket the airline issues. Right or wrong, the pilot had a reason for what he did, and when he made his decision, I am certain he knew the firestorm of politically correct bullshit he would have to endure for doing so. Utah can do what it pleases, but the law is on the side of the captain very clearly and without question. In the interest of public safety, the Captain is the final authority on who rides and who doesn't.
 
Guest

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 12:14 am

This is so ridiculous. Paranoia has reached an all time high. Bush wants us to fly, Congress wants us to fly, the FAA wants us to fly, and of course the airlines want us to fly. Well, thats what these 3 Americans were TRYING to do (these guys were American citizens), but they were denied! I think if the average American was thrown off an airplane because the crew didn't like the way they looked, they would "fly" to lawyers so fast our heads would spin.
 
Guest

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 12:23 am

Geez, from gungho flyboys to a bunch of pussies.

I'm referring to the few captains and their knee-jerk overreactions...not to the majority who did their jobs.



Check this story out...the man wasn't even an Arab.  Big grin

Flying scared...

September 27, 2001

BY MICHAEL SNEED SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Last week, I wrote a column detailing the plight of a Chicago area woman flying home from Texas three days after terrorists attacked America.

During a layover in Kansas City, she called her husband about a "suspicious passenger," and he urged her to contact authorities. She did. The passenger was pulled off the flight for questioning.

It was a tough decision. But she felt what she observed was reportable. It is what Americans are being asked to do by their government while, at the same time, being asked to respect each other's heritage.

Now, I'd like to talk about the plight of the passenger who was detained.

I think the brave letter the 39-year-old man sent me is representative of what is happening in this country. It's a sad commentary, but true.

Here, in part, is what he said:

"I am the 'suspicious traveler' [you wrote about in your] column Sept. 19th ... I am a native of Chicago. My parents are natives of Chicago. I have dark hair, dark eyes, and brown skin, because I am of Spanish, Mexican, French and American Indian descent. I am not an Arab. I was raised Catholic. I wouldn't know the Koran if it hit me in the face.

"I know we all feel vulnerable now, especially when flying. But terrorists would like nothing more than to see fear erode our sense of safety and community.

"If the fearful woman had but spoken with me, I would have been happy to show her what was really on my laptop computer ... I am a systems engineer for Parsons Transportation Group, a respected consulting engineering company.

"What she thought were exploding bombs was Windows Media Player, which has colorful graphics that move to the beat of the music I was listening to on headphones. . . . What she thought were airport plans on my laptop were really drawings of fiber-optic cable routings for the City of Austin's traffic-management system.

"In Kansas City, I was questioned by local police and let go. The crew of the plane became uncomfortable with flying with me and refused to fly with me, even though I have been flying with them for several months.

"The actions my fellow passengers found suspicious can all be explained ... I am 6'3", so I always request the first emergency exit row because of the extra legroom. Before the plane took off, the flight attendant asked me if I was willing and able to open the door in case of emergency, which of course I was.

"Because I'm tall, I prefer to use the washroom in the rear, where there is more headroom than in the front washroom in the nose of the plane [where he was sitting.]

"I went to the back of the plane twice, once to get change for a $10 bill from a colleague to purchase a drink, and another time to use the washroom.

"I did put my laptop aside twice, not to hide anything, but to do other work on my Palm Pilot."

He concluded: "The United States is characterized by diversity, but it takes trust to build a community of individuals. Trust requires setting fear aside. Since the attacks, we should all be in a permanent state of alert. We all need to be looking out for one another, and each individual has a part to play in maintaining our national security. But our suspicions are useful only if they lead us to ask questions, to see what's really there, to find out why others may be acting in unexpected ways.

"Dialogue is the antidote to fear. If we allow fear to disconnect us from one another, then we have lost our unity, and given the terrorists exactly what they want.''

Sincerely, David P. Araiza
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 4205
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 3:26 am

Shame on the Utah attorney general for persecuting the human survival instinct! This incident happened less than a week after the single most traumatic event in US history since Pearl Harbor. Ya think he could cut these passengers, human beings recently traumatized, a little slack? A waste of Utah taxpayers' money and of Northwest Airlines' time. The attorney general should drop this frivolous suit.

This suit is unlikely to win the AG favor among voters in Utah. More likely he's trying to curry some political-correctness favor with the rest of the world in advance of the Winter Olypmics.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Guest

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 6:32 am

I understand stand that people are still fearful,--including pilots, but Bush and all the others keep saying "carry on as usual, get in planes and fly some where. Dont' let these terrorist prevent you from living your lives". Throwing people off of airplanes because they look a certain way is not carrying on as usual, and people are being prevented from living their lives. Anyway, hopefully things will get better soon.
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 7:38 am

This is racism guys, don't go all out on defending what northwest did, what they did was wrong.
 
speedport
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:08 pm

RE: DCA-ROCguy

Sat Sep 29, 2001 7:53 am

Well put and well said.

Some people just don't get it. Makes you wonder if they've ever flown on a plane.
 
Twotterwrench
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2001 5:57 pm

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 8:38 am

You all seem to be a little misinformed as to what really happened. The pilot did NOT just throw three men off a plane for looking arabic. The other passengers rioted and DEMANDED that the men be removed. The pilot by his own words said he had no choice, and by all accounts, he really didn't. This is not a case of racism, although race was a small factor. This is simply an example of a pilot using his best judgement as to what was in the best interest of his aircraft and his crew and the safe operation of the flight as a whole.
 
Guest

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 8:47 am

Passengers rioting?? Then perhaps THEY should have been removed from the plane. Sounds to me like the pax themselves were a threat.

 
Twotterwrench
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2001 5:57 pm

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 8:51 am

Majority rules I suppose. 130 against 3? What would you do if you were the captain? i would have done the same as he did.
 
Guest

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 8:54 am

Terrorism NO! Air Rage YES!

 Big grin
 
JUANITO
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2000 7:16 pm

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 9:25 am

First of all, this is ridiculous and not DISCRIMINATION in any way shape or form. With all that has happened its better to be safe than sorry. The crew of Northwest made the right decision. Who knows if these individuals are real US citizens. They could have false documents as so many of these individuals do. I have flown Northwest Airlines several times and they have always demonstrated themselves to be a polite, friendly, conservative and an exceptional professional airline who has numerous positive contributions US aviation history. I am behind Northwest all the way as they made a proper decision. Recall the Mark Shartleff NOW and boycott the Olympic Games in Utah. Another thing, allow them smoke in the lavatories. I am totally disgusted with the Attorney General of Utah !! Is he Middle Eastern?
 
Guest

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 10:05 am

I guess the only thing I would have done was to try and reassure the pax that security cleared these men and found nothing harmful about them, but If the pilot was faced with that many angry pax then maybe he felt he was doing the right thing. The last thing he needed was a bunch of raving pax at 35,000 feet. I still can't help but feel bad for those 3 men though. I guess it's going to take some time before people feel comfortable again.
 
America West
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 6:54 am

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 10:46 am

...race was a small factor.

Small factor? None of this would have even happened if these men were not Arabic.

Rioting? In that case, they should have cancled the flight, and taken all of these people off the plane. That's (air)rage. It won't be tolerated at 35,000ft, why should it be tolerated on the ground?

I can relate to the decision of the captian. You want your passengers to feel that it is safe to fly, but if all of these other people were really acting a fool and "rioting," then they should have all been taken off.
 
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yyz717
Posts: 15775
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RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 11:57 am

Okay, I'm going to throw a spanner into the works...

I'm tired of all this bleeding heart crap! Yes, it's true that 99.99% of Arabs travelling/living in North America are peace loving people horrified with terrorism...but here's a parallel truth....100% of terrorism actions in the US in the past 10 years have been by Arabs/Muslims. Should Arabs/Muslims be suspected and more closely scrutinized....YES! That's life. Who ever said it was fair? Life & death issues require addl scrutiny.

Utah should be ashamed of itself. Perhaps Utahan law makers should visit Ground Zero.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3609
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

RE: YYZ717

Sat Sep 29, 2001 12:16 pm

"100% of terrorism actions in the US in the past 10 years have been by Arabs/Muslims"

Ummm....Oklahoma City ring a bell?? Terrorist: Twenty something white male. We should be suspicious of all white males too, i suppose, under your logic. Every passenger should be subjected to the same strict, stringent security standards. If they have to search everyone, so be it. Race and Ethnicity should not be a factor. End of story. Anything else is blatant racism.

Another thing, if you as a passenger are afraid to fly with a certain person, you should rebook yourself on another flight, not demand that the other person be removed.
 
Guest

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 12:29 pm

Great post, USFlyerMSP!
 
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yyz717
Posts: 15775
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: YYZ717

Sat Sep 29, 2001 12:32 pm

Timothy McVeigh was identified & caught quickly. Completely different situation. I meant foreign terrorism on US soil.

19 Arabs/Muslims highjacked those 4 aircraft. Their fellow partners in crime are still circulating in US society...and are almost surely Arab/Muslim themselves. You could argue that the 7000 people that died on Sep 11th were victims of Arab/Muslim racism...as most of the dead are Christian Americans. Racial profiling to solve crime is necessary. Get over it.

It was the NW flight crew that removed those Arab pax....they are responsible for the safety of the flight. They did the right thing.

You should be careful hurling charges of 'blatant racism'.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
tupolev154b2
Posts: 1269
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 9:01 am

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 1:33 pm

Twotter: "'we reserve the right to refues service'"

...to colors? How about to whites? After all, McVeigh was white.

People should not be judged based on their skin color or heritage regardless of what others with the same skin color or heritage does.
 
Twotterwrench
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2001 5:57 pm

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 1:38 pm

If the color of their skin presents a danger to the aircraft and crew, then yes, by all means, they have to get off. Go get the last ticket you used to travel and read the back. You have no right to travel no matter who you are.
 
Guest

RE: Utah Threatens To Sue Northwest

Sat Sep 29, 2001 1:44 pm

Oh brother!

NWA has apologized to the men. I just heard it on the news. Apparently that's what the state wanted, and that's what they got. So this appears to be over.

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