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sin777er
Topic Author
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 6:39 pm

Why Only GE 777LR?

Sat Sep 29, 2001 10:35 am

Why did they only offer GE? If they offered RR and PW, the plane is more likely to get orders.
 
Guest

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sat Sep 29, 2001 10:45 am

I wondered about that, I can see only offering the new 115,000lb thrust GE90 on the 777-300ER model because of the increase in capacity and weight, but the 777-200LR model should have had the RR Trent 895 and P&W 4098 available as options.
 
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yyz717
Posts: 15775
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sat Sep 29, 2001 10:47 am

Boeing felt the market wouldn't justify enough orders to encourage all 3 engine mgfers to develop growth versions of their current 777 engines.

So, the exclusive deal with GE ensures that at least one mfger will. Unfortunately, as you said, it could limit orders.

Don't forget, the A340-500/600 also has an exclusive RR deal.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Guest

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sat Sep 29, 2001 11:10 am

Airbus doesn't have an exclusive engine deal with Rolls Royce on the A340-500/600. Don't be surprised if Airbus and P&W sometime soon offer a 4000 series engine as an option to lure loyal P&W customers like NWA into ordering the A340-500/600 as a replacement for their 747-200 Classics.
 
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yyz717
Posts: 15775
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sat Sep 29, 2001 11:52 am

I thought RR DID have an exclusive on the A345/6??

Anyway, similarly, if UA came to Boeing and said they would only order PW 772LR's, I'm sure Boeing would consider. The customer is always right (if they're large enough)!

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1849
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sat Sep 29, 2001 11:52 am

Tedski:

Airbus and Rolls have a time-limit exclusive deal. So, technically speaking, at this moment, they have an exclusive deal. Also, I can assure you that the A345/6 will never be offered with a 4000 series engine! If P&W were to offer an engine on the A345/6, I doubt Swissair would have ordered the Rolls engine on the A346.
 
M27
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:25 am

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sat Sep 29, 2001 12:07 pm

The 895 and 4098 do not have enough thrust, and as far as I know, neither engine manufacturer is working on higher thrust versions at this time.

The 772-200LR is to have the same MTOW as the 777-300ER, and is to use 110,000 thrust GEs.
 
Guest

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sat Sep 29, 2001 7:52 pm

Hi all,

Could the reliability of the GE engines have had a role in it obtaining its exclusive rights to the LR?

From what I think I know, GE engines have the only rights for 207ETOPS. I cant verify that for sure but if someone could correct me I'll be grateful

Thanks
-Regards, VA
 
donder10
Posts: 6945
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sat Sep 29, 2001 8:41 pm

GE engines on the 777's have been far from realiable
 
DeanBNE
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:47 pm

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sun Sep 30, 2001 12:36 am

I recall reading the GE was the only manufacter willing to spend even more money upping the power on the 90 after the tremendous amount of cash spent by the 3 engine manufacturers developing an engine for the 777.

I wonder how AI's sales would have faired if the 3 came to the A345/6 party...

Cheers
 
wingman
Posts: 3919
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sun Sep 30, 2001 2:17 am

GE had some reliability issues during the introduction of the 90 series engine for the 777. The reliability of this engine is now on par with the Trents, and neither engine is nearly as reliable as the PWs inflight. GE does claim the highest dispatch rate though and the inflight shutdowns are extremely rare. RR, in fact, has borne the brunt of recent news surrounding inflight shutdowns and may actually cost SIA prompt ETOPS approval to 180 minutes. So to say or suggest that GE's engines on the 777 are not reliable is very inaccurate and misleading. Just the opposite is true, all three engine types on the 777 are among the most reliable engines ever built.
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sun Sep 30, 2001 4:28 am

Actually, the biggest reason is cost and design issues. It would take a lot of time and money to design engine mounts for three engine types for such a small market.

Also, there's a bit of a political reason. Boeing & GE already have business ties together. They co-launched the Boeing Business Jet.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Guest

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:46 am

The problem with the Trent 800 series was the special coating used on the engine's titanium fan blades which caused these inflight shutdowns. The problem has been corrected by Rolls Royce by using a different coating.
 
aeroguy
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:49 am

I read an article in Aviation Week that said both GE and P&W would only spend the development and certification costs to offer engines on the new 777LRs if they received exclusive contracts. They quoted a P&W VP who was essentially saying that they felt exclusivity was the only way that going after the niche market for the 777LRs would be worthwhile. The article also said that Rolls was content to proceed without an exclusive agreement. Looks like the engine manufacturers put Boeing in an interesting position, but that's just history since we know how it all turned out.
Like Boeing nut said, let's not forget the political reasons. I doubt it's a coincidence that GE got an exclusive deal and one of the launch customers just happens to be GE Capital Aviation Services.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sun Sep 30, 2001 6:11 am

Politics aside, the GE engine had the most room for growth. The Trent had a big core, but couldn't go much over 100000lbs. The PW 4080+ was based on older PW4000 technology (which is why UAL chose them -- they were similar to their 74/76 engines). The GE was a very new engine, which caused the initial teething troubles. However, the GE had the most room for growth, and that's beening proved now as it's grown to 115000lbs thrust. Now THAT'S an engine!
Your bone's got a little machine
 
b767-400er
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 11:07 am

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sun Sep 30, 2001 8:27 am

According to RR, the Trent 800 has potential "simple" thrust growth to 104,000lbs, much less then the 115,000lbs GE90-115B needed for the 300ER. However, it could be a contender for the 772LR, which are going to use the 110,000lbs GE-90-110B. Or maybe a lighter MTOW version.

Tony,
B767-400er
 
Guest

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sun Sep 30, 2001 9:47 am

If Boeing allows RR to market the Trent 800 with 104,000lbs thrust for a lighter MTOW 777-200LR you will see RR customers like BA, SIA, & AA order it.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Why Only GE 777LR?

Sun Sep 30, 2001 7:18 pm

A lighter MTOW 772LR would mean the 772LR wouldn't have that much more range than the 772ER, so what's the point?
Your bone's got a little machine

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