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DL757
Topic Author
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 11:47 pm

Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 1:44 am

People, let's face it, pilots are not needed anymore in todays world. Planes could easyly fly by themselfs thanks to all the modern ecquipment. It's just the passengers that want the pilots in the plane. I say in ten years or so there will be commrcial planes without pilots.
Fly Delta Jets | DL757
 
FedEx
Posts: 706
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:07 pm

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 2:20 am

I say ,I hope not! I will soon be there and I think there
will always be a pilot on the flight deck. Let's face it
computers are not perfect! Heck my Windows 95 sucks
from time to time with stupid "error" messages and freezes
and it turns out there is nothing wrong.
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 2:36 am

Sometimes during flight, there are unexpected situations: bad weather, some system not working well, ATC instructions, bird strikes, emergencies, terrorists, dangerous passangers, sick passangers and even taxying on the ground. I don't think a computer can handle with this, there is always the need for a human decision at some point.

I don't see myself in a plane with no pilots, I would travel by other transport.

Mirage
Faro, Portugal
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 3:10 am

I hope pilots will be needed also, seeing how I may be one one day!
 
DL757
Topic Author
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 11:47 pm

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 3:34 am

Yes, but most crashes are still caused by human error. Wouldnt you want to stop that and make air travel safer ?
Fly Delta Jets | DL757
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 3:55 am

Ofcourse I would but lets face it, the human error is something we must live with. It's in our nature to make errors.
During the history of our world a lot of wars have occured between humans and there will be always another war. War itself is an error.
This is a good topic, how can air safety handle with the human error? and how can computers help this?

Mirage
Faro, Portugal
 
CX747
Posts: 6255
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 4:04 am

If no pilots were in the aircraft, who would taxy the plane? Who would reroute the compute system when it malfunctions? Who would understand that by flying the route in this manner saves money and fuel? Remember, computer can not think for themselves, they can only do what humans program them to do.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
DL757
Topic Author
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 11:47 pm

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 4:31 am

Mirage I think we can do better then just say humans make erors and we have to live with that. They do make errors and that is ecxactly why I am sugesting computers take over. CX747, I am sure with modern techology we can overcome these problems.
Fly Delta Jets | DL757
 
CX747
Posts: 6255
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 4:44 am

I highly doubt we can ever have computers fly an aircraft with people on board without pilots. What happens if it overheats? All the passengers and FAs are in A LOT OF TROUBLE.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
BryanG
Posts: 956
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:59 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 5:08 am

In the 1970s, the British government thought that by the end of the 1980s there would be no need for manned fighter aircraft. They beleived that remotelly piloted vehicles or drones would do the job just as effectively in war. Obviously, they were wrong.

The same holds for commercial aviation. Anyone who's ever flown knows that there are a lot more factors to flying then a computer can control. Robots can do a lot, but no reasonable person would ever put their life in the care of one at 30,000 feet. Planes will always have pilots, no matter how little they will have to do in the cockpit in the future.
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 5:11 am

You goys have got to remember how many errors (crashes) are avoided by humans also.
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 5:25 am

DL757, I say we must live with human errors because I don't know any alternative, I don't know any computer who can replace the pilot. Yes, computers help us a lot doing things much more faster than humans but there's not yet a substitute to human decision, computers can't decide on the unexpected, that belongs just to us.
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore?

Mon Dec 07, 1998 5:41 am

Investigators are looking into an apparent computer mishap that nearly caused a Northwest Airlines jet to collide with an Air Ontario flight. The close call occurred at about 22,500 feet, near Albany. The intervention of an air traffic controller in Nashua prevented the Northwest flight from hitting the Air Ontario commuter.
The TCAS appears to have put the planes on a collision course. The incident began when the TCAS on board Air Ontario Flight 1335, a Dash 8 with 21 passengers and crew, warned of a US Airways jet taking off from Albany and heading for Pittsburgh. Although the US Airways Boeing 737 posed no apparent threat to the Air Ontario flight, the TCAS saw only a climbing plane and ordered the Air Ontario crew to climb. At the same time, Northwest Airlines Flight 1186, an A-320 carrying about 60 people, was ordered by its TCAS to dive. The planes then flew so close that the targets on radar scopes in Nashua merged into one, a controller told officials.
 
airbear
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:27 pm

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 5:50 am

Put it this way. I could see in, say, 30 years, aircraft operating with only one pilot. but never in a million years will aircraft "fly themselves"
 
FedEx
Posts: 706
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:07 pm

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 5:54 am

I have to agree with all of Mirage's comments!
He hit the nail right on the head so did Airbear!
DL757 I have one question for you since you
brought up this interesting question? Are
you a pilot?
 
DL757
Topic Author
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 11:47 pm

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 6:11 am

No FedEx, I am not a pilot. I am sure you'll tnow tell me how much there is to deal with in a flight. I don't say you're wrong. But, maybe not yet maybe when computers have developped a bit more, they can and will take over. The US Air Force is already using unmanned vehicles a lot and the first Atlantic crossing have been made by it.
Fly Delta Jets | DL757
 
FedEx
Posts: 706
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:07 pm

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 6:26 am

When I went to NASA(EDW) last june I saw many
test planes that could fly by themselves.
Some crash out in the desert and some
actually make it back. We will see! Good
Topic DL757!!!
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 6:31 am

in the 1960s, there was the D-21 recon drone which flew at 100000+ ft, Mach 3-4+, for 3000+ mi. It was totally computer controlled. Every turn, etc was programmed in it before launch. It had many failures because of its computers and was subsequently scrapped.
 
CX747
Posts: 6255
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 6:39 am

What unmanned aircraft crossed the atlantic?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 7:08 am

A Polaris? :-)
 
Guest

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 8:28 am

While I do agree that the equipment is getting more sophisticated all the time, I dont see us loosing our jobs to an Intel chip anytime soon. A machine is wonderful and yes, it can do many things a human can do. HOWEVER, a machine can not make judgement decisions. It can only do what you tell it to do. A great deal of flying any type of aircraft involves judgement. Split second decisions that could make the difference. I havent seen a magic box yet that could fly an evasive maneuver when some yoyo invades your airspace or second guess the controller when he accidently issues you a wrong altitude or clearance to land.
Also, your point of the passengers never being comfortable is right. Not beceuase they dont trust the computers, but because they trust the persons who were trained for years to operate that aircraft.
 
Scott
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:40 pm

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Mon Dec 07, 1998 8:53 am

DL757,if you are not a pilot,then how can you make a judgment call on computer replacing us pilots when you don't know the complexities of piloting an aircraft?
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Tue Dec 08, 1998 1:31 am

DL757, a valid idea but I have a couple of points:

1) You say "It's just the passengers that want the pilots in the plane".

"Just" the passengers? As long as the passengers want pilots they'll have them.
It's the passengers and their wallets who decide.

2) You also say "most crashes are still caused by human error".

Maybe true but those figures include faulty procedures and training. The
programming for any automated system is going to be determined by the same
people who decide on the procedures and training for manned flightdecks. What
you're left with is a comparison between the number of flights saved in situations
mentioned above by Aviator_ua and the number of flights jeopardised by genuine
pilot error - not so clear cut!



 
Guest

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Tue Dec 08, 1998 1:48 am

Scott, my friend, I don't know the complexitis of space flight either, but I do know that it's posibble (mostly by computers by the way). I think the computer technology will soon reach the stage where it will be posibble..whatever the complexities.
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Pilots not needed anymore

Tue Dec 08, 1998 2:37 am

Space - now there IS an area that would benefit from unmanned craft.
I'd hate to see manned spaceflight slowing down but I'm sure a great
deal of pioneering can be achieved with the reduced costs of
automation where lives, and marketing, aren't at stake. It takes
so long to get to neighbouring star systems so the sooner we start,
the better. Then JUST MAYBE we'll find something interesting within my
lifetime!

But that's for discussion elsewhere, I guess.

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