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Russianplnelvr
Topic Author
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2001 2:05 pm

Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 4:09 am



You always hear how pilots love the planes they fly. Whether its a 737, A320, 777, anthing. Is there any plane currently in service that pilots dislike and if so why?
 
CHQFlygirl
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 3:08 pm

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 4:14 am

Well I am a Flight Attendant, not a pilot, but I will speak for many of the captains and FO's that I have flown with. I dont think I have heard one good word from them about the Airbus. They all hate it. They all tell me that yes, the cabin interior is nice and modern looking, but it is a cheaply made aircraft. Pilots out there, do you agree? Disagree?
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4688
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 4:17 am

Funny that I hear most pilots prefer the sidestick on the airbus once they get used to it...but I'm not qualified to comment on the build quality.

MD-11 has a bit of a bad reputation, being difficult to control on approach.
 
Andreas
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Flygirl, Please, Lets Stay Truthfully...

Sun Jan 06, 2002 4:22 am

..so how much do you get paid for such a ridiculous posting from a certain Seattle-based company?
That is about the greatest hogwash I have ever heard!
So let's pretend you didn't post that, let's all have a good laugh and keep on partying through the weekend!
Regards
Andreas
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
Guest

Not Seattle

Sun Jan 06, 2002 5:00 am

Boeing is based out of Chicago.

-WSRegal
 
IAHERJ
Posts: 527
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RE: Not Seattle

Sun Jan 06, 2002 7:15 am

I think he is aware of that. How many aircraft are assembled in Chicago? How many employees are in Chicago?

Not a single plane is, has or will be built in Chicago. Only the executive offices are now located there. Lay off.
Actually flown: EMB-120 EMB-145 B717 B737 B757 B767
 
BFS
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 2:33 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 7:51 am

I thought he was talking about Microsoft  Smile
 
Guest

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 9:50 am

"..so how much do you get paid for such a ridiculous posting from a certain Seattle-based company?
That is about the greatest hogwash I have ever heard!
So let's pretend you didn't post that, let's all have a good laugh and keep on partying through the weekend!"

Oh please! ... the same could be said about Airbus lovers in this website. It's more frequently used to advertise, promote and praise Airbus than the Airbus site itself. Airliners.net is so Airbus bias, it's not even funny!
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 10:10 am

Whoever put down the FA about the opinion of pilots not liking airbus. Let me ask you something pal. How many hours do you have? Do you make a living as a FA or Pilot or even a mechanic? If not then shut up! They know more than the A or B lovers in this forum after all it's their jobs to fly the damn things anyway. Your comments do not outweigh those of perfessionals!

Anyways; MD-11s are not among a pilots favorite. Too difficutlt to control on the 1st thousnad ft of take off and landing due to smaller stablizer. The aircraft recived names like Mega Death 11, The scud and Deathstar. I've heard this from pilots at FEDEX, DL, AA and Swissair. There are pilots who would be glad to take other ac over the 11. The Wall St Journal did a story about it and the aircraft has an incident/accident rating exceding the DC-8, 707 and DC-10 after only 9 years on the job!

no more 11 flights for me. MD should've stopped after the successful Dc-10-30. The series 40 was a failure. The 11 just sent MD from bad to worse.
"FUIMUS"
 
ryanb741
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RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 10:30 am

I dont think I have heard one good word from them about the Airbus

Which Airbus? there is more than one you know  Big grin

I have heard that pilots complain about the MD-11. Apparently the A330 and B777 are a real joy to fly. I have heard some complaints that the A340 engine feels underpowered - apparently the 747-400's overtake the A340's on trans-atlantic flights!
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2010
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RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 10:30 am

Would love to hear from an MD-11 pilot.

II Cor. 4:17-18
 
sushka
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 12:33 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 10:35 am

I talked with a United 747-400 captain and he told me that out of all the planes he flew the DC10 was the worst. He said that constantly things had to be repaired, etc.
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
Max Q
Posts: 8900
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 11:09 am

MD-80

Some people swear by it I never liked it.

Small, very cramped cockpit, very uncomfortable seats,
extremely rough autothrottles that have to be restrained
windows leak in the rain, and even better leak de-icing fluid on you with accompanying stinging sensation.

I could go on, so I will lousy brakes that vibrate badly even at low speed and overheat easily and a pathetic air conditioning system with non existent airflow that makes for a miserable cockpit and cabin in the summer.

MD80 the only aircraft I had to bail out and I don't mean evacuate, I mean bail out like water!
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
User avatar
RayChuang
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RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 11:21 am

I remember up till the middle of 2000 UA had an ex-DL DC-10 that was a total nightmare to maintain. They were all glad the plane was finally retired.  Smile
 
MD88Captain
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 9:50 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 11:34 am

Everything you say about the MD80 is true or close to it. (I actually find the seats to be comfortable and the cockpit to fit nicely once you are in the seat.) I have been leaked on, and miserablely hot in the summer (but that's true of many aircraft I've flown). The autothrottles are weak. The brakes heat up quickly and vibrate miserably. You can run out of elevator on landing if the cg is too far aft. The autopilot will blow through an altitude if it captures an altitude in a configuration change or in a turn. And that is because the autopilot trim motor is too slow. It is longitudnally more unstable than the rock solid 727 on approach.

But despite its deficencies I've learned to love it after close to 3000 hrs in it. It climbs like a rocket on takeoff (unlike the 727), it does a good Cat 3b, the NAV system is light years ahead of the 727 and L1011.
It doesn't seem to have many maintenance problems (at least at DAL) and it hasn't scared me yet (but that may be because I'm too stupid to get scared).

Oh, if you want to talk uncomfortable seats - DAL's 757 are the worst. I loved the airplane and hated the seats. DAL bought the cheapest seats and they got medival torture devices. And Uncle Sams T-34Cs made flight training even more miserable than it had to be and maybe that's what the Navy had in mind.
 
Thumper
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VirginA340

Sun Jan 06, 2002 11:41 am

Hate to tell you this but according to Air-Safe.Com the fatal accident rate of the MD-11 is 1.27 and the fatal accident rate of the A-310 is 1.59! Maybe you should cross off the A-310 also as it has a worse record than the MD-11!
 
VirginA340
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RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 12:06 pm

Whoa! How did the A310 get so many accidents?

When I slooked at the Wall St Journal (late Sept 2000) I saw the bar for the MD-11 on the chart they had actualy excede the DC-10, DC-8 and 707. That was shocking after only 9 years of service and the crew complaints went up. You comment of the A310 was quite shocking. I thought the A300 would have a bigger accident/incident rating than the A310 and I didn't expect it to be so high.
"FUIMUS"
 
Thumper
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2001 2:12 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 12:19 pm

No the A-300 is 0.78,What really surprised me is the MD-80 which is only 0.22! One of the safest planes out there!
 
elal106
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2000 1:50 pm

RE: CHQFlygirl

Sun Jan 06, 2002 12:22 pm

hey CHQFlygirl,

I hear the exact same thing!!! (no offense to any airbus fans, I am one myself as well)....
The ones that flew boeing planes and then switched to airbus always said how they would rather go to the boeing ones..


Regarding ELAL Pilots and their 737NGs they dont like it at all....about the 777s, they love it!!! My uncle is doing the JFK-TLV, TLV-JFK routes non stop but he just loves the plane as well.....!!!!

all the best,
elal106
 
POSITIVE RATE
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RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 12:28 pm

I've read that the MD-11 cockpit systems are really tricky to master (FMS, IRS etc) and a lot of pilots have problems inputing data into the FMS when they are new to the MD-11. Apparently the a/c is unstable of final approach due to stabiliser size
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3124
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 1:40 pm

I have overheard a European looking pilot at BOM describe the A340 as "a dog" which "refuses to pull"! Whatever that meant!
 
The Coachman
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RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 2:13 pm

Half the reason of the high accident rates for MD-11's might have been China Airlines losing two (?) in HKG. Do correct me for any mistakes, but the incident where the MD-11 flipped onto its back really sticks in my mind.
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
Pilothica737
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 1:55 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 2:33 pm

Planes that don't fly  Big thumbs up
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
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RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 7:55 pm

I'm surprised any Russian planes aren't up there.
 
ewr757
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 8:47 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 11:29 pm



The one that pays the least.

Seriously, every aircraft like people have their good traits and bad. For the most part the Boeing aircraft I have flown have been extremely reliable with predictable handling qualities.

 
Scorpio
Posts: 5050
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Sun Jan 06, 2002 11:56 pm

VirginA340,

And for your info I I'm an ex fireman with the FDNY so have a little respect.

WTF??? What does that have to do with this discussion, I wonder...

Elal106,

I hear the exact same thing!!! (no offense to any airbus fans, I am one myself as well)....
The ones that flew boeing planes and then switched to airbus always said how they would rather go to the boeing ones..


Well, the exact same thing can be said about pilots first flying on Airbus and later converting to Boeings. You see, a lot of pilots prefer the aircraft they first flew. If this was a Boeing, they'll probably prefer Boeings for the rest of their lives. If it is an Airbus, they'll probably prefer those for the rest of their lives.
 
AFC_Ajax00
Posts: 739
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2000 5:33 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 12:00 am

Andreas, there are no rednecks in NYC and especially not with the FDNY get your info right.
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward; for there you long to return
 
[email protected]
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 12:08 am

Suprise, suprise. A vs B again.

Its hilarious isn't it?

[email protected]
In Arsene we trust!!
 
Andreas
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

AFC: There Are Rednecks In NYC, At Least One...

Mon Jan 07, 2002 12:11 am

called Virgin 340, and as you can read for yourself: He's a FORMER fireman.
btw: Who told you there are no rednecks in NYC? They are everywhere in the world, they just change their names!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
Andreas
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

Arsenal: Yes You're Right And Why...

Mon Jan 07, 2002 12:13 am

...do you think I'm going through the roof??? Because in this case it was started in such a stupid way, I just couldn't keep to myself!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 3:51 am

ok...

a) VirginA340, so you are an ex-fireman in new york...well...why should we care about this ? Are you better than others now?

b) 85% of all new pilots at LH coming fresh from the school prefer the A320 over the 737. Most pilots like the A320 because there is much more space in the flight deck than on a 737, and they can eat on a table instead having to eat with the yoke between their legs.
And many Pilots coming from B737 prefer the 742 over the 744 and A340, because they are older and love those old analog panels, while most A320 Pilots prefer the A340 and the 744.
 
atwingo
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 4:40 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 4:30 am

Please let's stop bashing VIRGINA340. After all he 's an ex-fireman from NY, and we should all be honored to have such a distinguished personality among us!!!!
 
Pilothica737
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 1:55 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 4:40 am

Hey Virgin..guess what! My brothers ex girlfriend's mother's stepbrother was in the NYFD, but I don't expect to get a cookie for it...grow up! I'm 16 and I am more mature and grown up than you!
Pilotchica
 
757man
Posts: 355
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:59 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 4:44 am

This has got to be one of the most entertaining threads I have read in a long time!

I saw an interview with an Air France pilot ages ago and he was Captain on an A320, but used to fly the 737. He said the A320 was the best aircraft he ever flew. But then again, Airbus probably bribed him to say it, and being French, he was probably very open to a large cash sum.

Anyway, my Grandpaaaaa used to fly Halifax bombers for the RAF in World War 2 - so gimme some respect!
 
TK
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 11:41 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 5:02 am

Funny, I've talked to Airbus pilots from numerous airlines and they all LIKE the Airbuses. Sure...some may prefer other types over the Airbus but they don't HATE them. Hate is a strong word, and I keep seeing this word paired with Airbus, especially from our friends living in across the other side of the border the great US of A? But why? Just because Airbus isn't American?
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4961
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 5:19 am

Well, if you once flew the Concorde, then I guess everything else would be worse!
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
dragogoalie
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 3:58 pm

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 5:20 am

I WANT RESPECT TOO!!!!!!  Wink/being sarcastic

--dragogoalie-#88--
Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
 
Pilothica737
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 1:55 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 5:30 am

me three
 Big thumbs up
 
Pilothica737
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 1:55 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 5:41 am

Airbusses are nice planes, but I'd have to say that I would prefer to fly ( if I was a pilot ) a 737 over an A320. I have many friends that are airline pilots, and most of them say B over A. That is not to say that I know everything, because I don't! But since I am not yet an airline pilot, and all I have to go on is what other pilots say, I'd have to go with Boeing.
Pilotchica
 
Guest

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 5:49 am

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

*Wipes eyes* Ahh, this is the most hillarious thread I've seen in a long time, thanks for the good laugh fellas!! HAHA

OK, phew...I'm good, ok,


I hear (LOL) that the MD-11 is not generally a favorite among pilots, and I read in this thread that the MD-80 is not either.

Well being an aspiring pilot myself, and having seen the MD-80 cockpit it looks quite cramped and uncomfortable to me, I'm not so sure I'd enjoy flying it. Now the A320 on the other hand, haha, I'd love to fly, lot's of room.

I'm nto sure how pilots feel about Airbus, I wont even go there, but for me, if I were a pilot I'd like a bit of room behind my head, that is, I'd rather have a jumpseat behind me, rather than the forward bulkeah, which makes it all the more cramped.

LOL, still laughing over this thread, haha.

OK, I'm shutting up now.  Big grin

Aloha 737-200!!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
User avatar
B737-112
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 1999 6:01 pm

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 5:55 am

I'll actually answer the question and avoid the controversy. The only time I've ever talked to six pilots (at different times) that fly one kind of aircraft and heard only negative responses was the Shorts 330/360. These did operate in airline service for many years.
 
ewr757
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 8:47 am

RE: Jagermeister

Mon Jan 07, 2002 6:15 am

>>I also think that Fokker makes good planes..., better than Boeing . <<

Right. Is that why they went bankrupt?
 
fanofjets
Posts: 2034
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2000 2:26 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 6:30 am

For readers interested in yucky airplanes hated by pilots (and for good reason), may I refer you to Bill Yenne's fine book, The "World's Worst Aircraft."

The Grand Prize goes to the Okhra piloted bombs of the Second World War. At least the pilot never had to endure the horrific experience on a later flight!

Runners Up deserving dishonorable mention:

Convair XV-1 Pogo, a single-engined military plane that stood on its tail, erect like a missile and which took off like a cross between a rocket and a helicopter. The problem, however, was its lack of visiblity during landing - getting the plane back to terra firma, preferably in one piece.

Bristol Brabazon, a ten-engined wonder with a wingspan exceeding that of a 747 but without the benefit of hydraulic assist.

The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
Andreas
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

Dragogoalie, I Respect You!...

Mon Jan 07, 2002 7:06 am

...I really do! I don't know exactly what for, but pick your own choice, whatever, I'll respect you for it! Did that make your day? Very well, we try to please! *gg*
Now a nice rest of the weekend everybody, good night from FRA
ANdreas
btw: The old Bristols, I'm amazed that anyone here remembers those, wow!!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 10:02 am

For those of you defending andreas you need to get a life and stop using Johan as a tool to solve your problems. To the faceless coward who had me deleted. Why don't you come here and face me.

Pilothichica737 or what ever your name is. You are a 16 year old who doesn't know any better. YOU did not serve with them I did pal. I served with a ladder company in Bedsty, Brooklyn. By the way I'm born and raised in Brooklyn not from some place called St Charles SO since YOU weren't on the FD so why don't you give it a rest. I was merely defending the FA who knew more. This had nothing to do with the other users.

I know see why many experinced users such as B747-437B has left the forum including pro pilots and FAs who are sick of the deletion. Johan has the nerve to delete me but he doesn't have the guts to say why when clearly I'm not the trouble maker. When an Anti US topic comes up and I defend my country my posts are deleted among other users who are on my side but yet Anti US posts are up for months. Johan; The deletetion is getting rediculous on the forum.

Scorpio; I wonder what your pointless rebutal has to do with this topic at all. My post HAD something to do with this post. Get your eyes checked or switch eye doctors.

Everyday I always see good people get putdown and deleted while immature users like the ones above thrive and they get off on putting those down who DO know better than them on certain topics. I'm sorry to see that a.net is becoming a forum for those who put down others like it's a highschool cafeteria pissing contest.

Andreass. For one i'm not White I'm Indian. Second you can take your breficase and your 3 prices armani and go back to Berlin. I did vist Berlin but it didn't have morons like yourself crawling all over the place. I remember getting off a Lufthansa A320 at Berlin and going shoping and speaking German. By the way It's people like yourself why Investment banker reputations are going down the tube.
"FUIMUS"
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 10:27 am

I forgot that you are in Berlin so go back to what ever hell hole you came from. If you or the rest of the Andrass Peanut Gallary up for a barfight you know where to find me.
"FUIMUS"
 
JAT
Posts: 1064
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2000 4:45 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 10:45 am

What bothers me is not the fact that people post comments and their opinions, what bothers me is that some times those comments appear so groundless. When someone says an aircaft is "cheaply made" and that they (pilots) "all hate it" I personally disregard it. It is not an objective comment, it is very vauge and it's an opinion. That is the whole point, so stop having these petty arguments and hopefully we can stick to the original topic. If you read something you decide how you are going to take it and remember that everyone has their opinion. Andreas has the right to disagree with her "even" though she is an FA and you VirginA340 have to understand that. It's as simple as that.
 
skihigh2002
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 11:17 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 10:52 am

JAT : and don't forget "i hate the A340 it's a crap airplane.. i'm not a pilot though.."

That "i'm not a pilot though" appears in many of the posts on these forums.

Chris
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6693
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 10:54 am

I've read that f/a's don't like 727 galleys. I've also read that A340's don't climb very well.
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
777-200
Posts: 966
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 11:11 pm

RE: Which Airliners Do Pilots Dislike

Mon Jan 07, 2002 11:00 am

Well I got one thing to say, 777 For Life!  Smile
And to VirginA340, Johan really does get a little "trigger" happy when it comes to Deleting folks.
Another Day, Another Dollar.... Young Jeezy

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