Word in on the street that SQ will announce non-stop flights between Singapore and San Francisco later this week.

The new direct route will see the airline's factory-fresh Airbus A350 jet pressed into service on a flight estimated to take some 16 hours, although there's currently no start date for the inaugural non-stop service.

The move comes ahead of Singapore Airlines' plan to restart non-stop flights to Los Angeles and New York from 2018 using a new ultra-long-range version of the Airbus A350, which will be fitted with all-new business class seats currently being designed for its second raft of Airbus A380s.

Airbus has confirmed to Australian Business Traveller that there'll be only around 170 seats, compared to some 300 in SQ's standard mid-range A350.

Source
http://www.ausbt.com.au/singapore-airli ... -francisco

Singapore Airlines Instagram account has been throwing teasers out the past two days hinting at a forthcoming major announcement (love it when airlines tease a big announcement and drop clues in social media ahead of time; like what CX did with announcing BOS).

The two posts and subsequent replies in the comments by Singapore Airlines -as well as countless guesses- seem to "hint" at A350 non-stop service to the US, and, SFO.

the first post was a math riddle in which SQ's social media team actually replied to selected comments (and check out which select ones they chose to reply to): https://www.instagram.com/p/BGoRNK2Gms2 ... eair&hl=en

The second post had a photo of the Silverkris magazine with the Golden Gate Bridge on the cover and the caption "Pulling out all the stops, so you can have more time to indulge in simple pleasures." Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where they are going with this given that SFO is served twice daily with a stop: https://www.instagram.com/p/BGqunWtmmgv ... eair&hl=en

Now everyone and their mother on this forum knows SQ said they'd be back to the US non-stop in 2018 with the long range A350's once they came into existence. But two plus years is an awful long time, and with UA starting SFO-SIN non-stop (and apparently being very successful at the onset); can't help but think SQ got a bit jealous they were bested by their *A partner whose product can't even come close to touching SQ; particularly when SQ had 789's allocated to their fleet at one point which they then sent over to Scoot.

The current A350's SQ has *COULD* make SFO non-stop but would likely face weight restrictions, particularly westbound.

Two ways to look at it: They are teasing they will launch SFO non-stop in 2018 (in 24 months, the number from the riddle) with their A350 long range planes -OR- they are launching SFO later this year, 24 months earlier than previously announced with their current A350's.

Thoughts?

Looking at the Instagram page of Singapore Airlines (@singaporeair), they are dropping hints with pictures and hints! Very plausible that this is happening and soon in fact!

Only question is whether the SIN-SFO nonstop can handle 2 competitors? Or whether with the recent signing of the code share deal between the airlines, there'll be cooperation on this route with a JV/revenue sharing/codeshare deal on this as well?

Thoughts on this? Exciting longhaul expansion by SIA with the opening of CBR, WLG, DUS and now these non stop flights!

Also, which SFO tag on is likely to get the axe? HKG-SFO or ICN-SFO? From what I've heard, both routes are still doing very well and SIA wouldn't want to give up the lucrative 5th freedom rights they have!

Thread has been started on this topic titled 'SQ to announce SIN-SFO'

Apparently, AusBT is reporting that SQ will start SIN-SFO nonstops this year as well!

[EDIT: Apologies for double posting, the new airliners.net is not playing too well with my iPhone :p]

Should be doable with their A380's since it's about the same distance as LAX - DXB and less than DFW - SYD. I'm just surprised they haven't looked at serving SFO non-stop before.

TC957 wrote:

Should be doable with their A380's since it's about the same distance as LAX - DXB and less than DFW - SYD.

Though unlike EK, they do not operate the 575t MTOW A380s.

TC957 wrote:

I'm just surprised they haven't looked at serving SFO non-stop before.

Low fuel prices perhaps?

chiraagnt wrote:

Also, which SFO tag on is likely to get the axe? HKG-SFO or ICN-SFO? From what I've heard, both routes are still doing very well and SIA wouldn't want to give up the lucrative 5th freedom rights they have!

One of them will ultimately have to go; just way too much capacity otherwise. I suspect ICN gets axed and wouldn't be surprised if they opened up a new routing from ICN to somewhere else in the US like ORD, BOS or SEA. Those fifth freedom rights are valuable and they wouldn't give it up so easily.

What is going to happen to the 1-stop flights?

I know this has been mentioned before on other threads, but I am not familiar with aircraft performance - from the specs the A359 and B789 seem evenly matched. Then why is it said that the A359 will struggle to do the SFO-SIN route ? Does UA impose weight penalties on the B789 which operates this route?

Its so funny that JUST after United starts SFO to Singapore that SQ decides to do the same. Singapore Airlines has never flown nonstop to San Francisco and now they have an urgency to do so ? why. SQ has airplanes currently in the fleet that can do 16 hour flights they didn't have to wait for the A350 to do so. This could have been done by a 77W. Cathay Pacific 77W flights to JFK, Boston and Toronto take 16 hours on the return to HKG. Very surprising development.

In terms of the fifth freedom rights, are there any constraints on cities they can fly to? And what are the frequencies / capacity they are allowed.

Reason I ask is would it be viable to do SIN-ICN-JFK? I imagine that competition with CX from HKG might be really intense. From ICN, combined with OZ, they might be able to come up with some interesting propositions for Star Alliance FFs giving KE a hard time. Maybe they can even time it such to minimize flight times on the ground and complement their FRA-JFK flight.

Or maybe I'm being too optimistic about the financial potential of such an operation.

From previous threads it seems pretty clear that the B789 is fuel-limited well before the A359. Something about that big wing, big tanks, extra headroom on MTOW I guess. Sure, the 359 will also be payload-limited at this distance but it will still carry a substantially bigger payload, at least westbound, than the 789. Someone here should have the numbers.

tealnz wrote:

From previous threads it seems pretty clear that the B789 is fuel-limited well before the A359. Something about that big wing, big tanks, extra headroom on MTOW I guess. Sure, the 359 will also be payload-limited at this distance but it will still carry a substantially bigger payload, at least westbound, than the 789. Someone here should have the numbers.

The SQ a350 is quite premium already and should not have any difficulty making sfo-sin year round..

jfk777 wrote:

Its so funny that JUST after United starts SFO to Singapore that SQ decides to do the same. Singapore Airlines has never flown nonstop to San Francisco and now they have an urgency to do so ? why.

They can't afford not to. They've always had a competitive offering until now. With a nonstop in the market, not only are they at a disadvantage on SFOICN/HKG, but now on SFOSIN as well.

I believe it was rumored a while back that SQ was also looking at SIN-ORD nonstop with their 359s. SIN-SFO must be a significantly bigger market if they think it's better to be competitor #2 on SIN-SFO rather than to have SIN-ORD to themselves.

FSDan wrote:

I believe it was rumored a while back that SQ was also looking at SIN-ORD nonstop with their 359s. SIN-SFO must be a significantly bigger market if they think it's better to be competitor #2 on SIN-SFO rather than to have SIN-ORD to themselves.

Believe SIN-ORD would need the 359ulr variant while SIN-SFO can be done with their current 350 - assuming the intention is to launch SIN-SFO soon and not wait until 2018 like their LAX and NYC routes.

SQ may be a Star Alliance partner, but not a Joint Venture partner, with UA, which may figure into this scenario.

a380787 wrote:

funny all those who *insisted* that SQ is only interested in restarting NYC+LAX ... and yet SQ, by their own actions, chose a 3rd destination before either of those

Granted UA likely forced their hand. I suspect they were not planning on launching any nonstops until the ULRs come in 2018, but 2 years is a long time to just give UA free reign on US-SIN nonstop.

This is interesting, especially because when SQ did offer nonstop flights to the US, they choose to fly SIN-LAX/EWR over SFO, as both a more premium markets. A 77W could probably even handle the route now (albeit with some restrictions). I suspect that this is strictly a competitive measure against UA.

I suspect that SFO-ICN-SIN will be discontinued and SFO-HKG-SIN will continue or at least be reduced.

I sincerely hope they keep HKG-SFO. The route has traditionally been doing well, and I believe SQ has a poll of regular customers for this route.

I can't imagine SQ1/2 falling victim to a SIN-SFO nonstop. There is way too much demand between HKG-SFO, so much that CX flies the route 17/wk... The perfect scenario would be to drop the ICN tag and upgauge 1/2 to an A380! This would be an awesome response to both UA and CX. Who knows, perhaps if SQ exited SFO-ICN we could see one of the Korean carriers upgauge to an A380 as well!

Okcflyer wrote:

I imagine the IAH-DME flight is done-for if this route is started. IAH-based travelers can 1-stop in SFO rather than DME. Most other connections can 1-stop through SFO.

How many people were flying from IAH to SIN vs. getting off at DME?

I ask because it seems most of the 1-stop SIN-US flights seem to rely on a sizable portion of 5th-freedom traffic. Small sample size, but I've taken NYC-SIN flight three times (twice flying through) - and each time it seemed a far majority of the plane was flying just to FRA.

SFOA380 wrote:

I can't imagine SQ1/2 falling victim to a SIN-SFO nonstop. There is way too much demand between HKG-SFO, so much that CX flies the route 17/wk... The perfect scenario would be to drop the ICN tag and upgauge 1/2 to an A380! This would be an awesome response to both UA and CX. Who knows, perhaps if SQ exited SFO-ICN we could see one of the Korean carriers upgauge to an A380 as well!

To expand on this I could see SQ moving the ICN flight to ORD. ORD only has Asiana and KE on the route so it would seem there is room for SQ.

mpdpilot wrote:

SFOA380 wrote:

I can't imagine SQ1/2 falling victim to a SIN-SFO nonstop. There is way too much demand between HKG-SFO, so much that CX flies the route 17/wk... The perfect scenario would be to drop the ICN tag and upgauge 1/2 to an A380! This would be an awesome response to both UA and CX. Who knows, perhaps if SQ exited SFO-ICN we could see one of the Korean carriers upgauge to an A380 as well!

To expand on this I could see SQ moving the ICN flight to ORD. ORD only has Asiana and KE on the route so it would seem there is room for SQ.

It might be great all around - SQ returns to ORD, SQ brings 380 to SIN-HKG-SFO, OZ brings 380 from JFK to ICN-SFO, and OZ makes JFK into 2x daily 777.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] ... 0/sizes/h/

This photo of a QR a350's fms gives us a few clues about what the present a359 can do... Assuming SQ's interior choices are not substantially heavier than QR there will be a substantial reduction in empty weight thanks to the more premium config(250 odd vs 283). This should free up enough additional fuel weight to add another hour or so to the 15hrs endurance shown in that photo. SQ's birds are also batch 3 which should improve things even further...

Didn't UA and SQ announce not too long ago that the were going to start having warmer relations? If so, then that lead me to believe that there will be cooperation on the 2 routes, timed to their respective banks in their respective hubs, and O&D in the terminus (arrival banks in SIN outbound for SFO O&D for SQ, arrival banks for SFO outbound for SIN O&D).

Interesting times ahead! Are there any other airlines interested/ordered the A359LR?

TWA772LR wrote:

Didn't UA and SQ announce not too long ago that the were going to start having warmer relations? If so, then that lead me to believe that there will be cooperation on the 2 routes, timed to their respective banks in their respective hubs, and O&D in the terminus (arrival banks in SIN outbound for SFO O&D for SQ, arrival banks for SFO outbound for SIN O&D).

Interesting times ahead! Are there any other airlines interested/ordered the A359LR?

That would be awesome indeed ... daytime departure for SQ service and westbound red-eye for UA service. Wingtip-to-wingtip would indeed be a waste of this opportunity.

? Does UA impose weight penalties on the B789 which operates this route?[/quote]

They should not have to. A typical day westbound appears to be ~15.30. A UA 789 is good for about 31t payload for a 16hr sector which is ~ max passenger plus a few tonnes of cargo.

From what UA folks have told us on this site, there have been no restrictions west-bound on their 789s. That being said, expect some restrictions west-bound in the winter.

The SQ config only has one more seat vs UA's 789 and the 359 is a larger a/c (Airbus lists a "typical" layout at over 300 seats). Given that, expect SQ to have similar restrictions but the ability to lift a bit more than the 789.

It's great to hear SQ is going non-stop to SFO and I expect it will do well.

tealnz wrote:

From previous threads it seems pretty clear that the B789 is fuel-limited well before the A359. Something about that big wing, big tanks, extra headroom on MTOW I guess. Sure, the 359 will also be payload-limited at this distance but it will still carry a substantially bigger payload, at least westbound, than the 789. Someone here should have the numbers.

The UA 789 layout of 254 seats might suit them just fine. Maybe 300+ seats would be too many for them.

SonomaFlyer wrote:

From what UA folks have told us on this site, there have been no restrictions west-bound on their 789s. That being said, expect some restrictions west-bound in the winter.

The SQ config only has one more seat vs UA's 789 and the 359 is a larger a/c (Airbus lists a "typical" layout at over 300 seats). Given that, expect SQ to have similar restrictions but the ability to lift a bit more than the 789.

It's great to hear SQ is going non-stop to SFO and I expect it will do well.

Correct. We have not restricted it once since it launched. I have worked UA1 numerous times from the Station Ops side, and we have yet to leave with open seats due to weight. Heck, we hardly see an open seat anyways with the LF's. Winter could be a different story. We will revisit that in Nov.

Here's an article with details:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... /85926262/

Apparently SQ will end ICNSFO and replace it with ICNLAX. They'll also operate both LAX services with the 77W, so no more A380 flights for LAX. Looking forward to seeing the A359 at SFO!

SQ doing ICN-LAX .... this might partially deter AA from wanting to jump into LAX-ICN considering there will be 3 very strong competitors - KE, OZ, and now SQ.

GRU tag finally killed, as predicted :

"SIA has at the same time taken the difficult decision to suspend services to Sao Paulo in Brazil as a result of the sustained weak performance of the route. SIA operates three weekly flights to Sao Paulo via Barcelona and the last flight will be operated on October 20, 2016. Services between Singapore and Barcelona will continue to be operated."

departure/arrival times will be similar to existing 1-stop service via ICN :

"Flights from San Francisco will depart in the morning, arriving in Singapore in the early evening. Non-stop SIN-SFO flights will also depart in the morning, with a morning arrival in the U.S. to enable onward connections to additional destinations. "

So this means the end of Suites service to LAX? Or will Suites ever be installed on the 77W?

DolphinAir747 wrote:

So this means the end of Suites service to LAX? Or will Suites ever be installed on the 77W?

I think the answer is Yes for the former and No for the latter.

SQ just announced that GRU will be suspended from October 20th.

I wonder how they will keep the BCN schedule, non-stop 3 times a week 77W? Seems like a good place to fly the A359.


Link in portuguese only:
http://www.panrotas.com.br/noticia-turi ... erdestaque

Somewhat related question: once SQ begins flying SIN-LAX nonstop, any predictions on whether ICN or NRT will be axed?

modesto2 wrote:

They'll also operate both LAX services with the 77W, so no more A380 flights for LAX.

What is the rationale behind the decision to discontinue A380 service to LAX? -ir

IslandRob wrote:

modesto2 wrote:

They'll also operate both LAX services with the 77W, so no more A380 flights for LAX.

What is the rationale behind the decision to discontinue A380 service to LAX? -ir

Adding a 77W flight to the existing A380 flight results in a drastic (60%) increase in capacity from 441 daily seats to 705 seats.
Their decision results in a moderate (19%) capacity increase: 2x 77W (4 class) results in 528 seats vs the current 441 to LAX.
The 77Ws have superior Y/J products to the A380s as the latter will only start being retrofitted with a brand new product in the middle of 2017.

very interesting they aren't starting LAX. The 789/350 are going to really change the game for SQ. Their huge problem that allowed CX to leapfrog them was no economical non-stop service to the US. Looks like the 350 is changing that. I'd expect them to try and launch as many cities as possible. LAX/SFO/ORD/JFK.

Wonder if we will see AA beat them to it at LAX since they are getting a350's next year and it would be a perfect way to strengthen their Asia network and LAX hub.

I just got Intel from SFO. it sounds like SIN-ICN-SFO is being axed. UA will be going down to the 787-9 in August so that means OZ will be flying the largest aircraft in *A. Could ICN-SFO handle an A380 from OZ?

Incorrect. KE daily SFO-ICN is a 747-8...

SFOA380 wrote:

Incorrect. KE daily SFO-ICN is a 747-8...

Largest aircraft in Star Alliance.

Big changes to their route network for Americas! Tbh, kinda sad seeing the GRU tag on being cut as Singapore Airlines was one of the few prestigious carriers that proudly flew to 'all 6 inhabited ontinents around the world'.

Hoping they return to South America soon with another type of aircraft or stopover to Chile, Buenos Aires or back to GRU.

Also, keep in mind that they've expanded their Americas operation before receiving their A359 ULR, which has already been stated to serve MORE than just NYC and LAX non stop! They've ordered 7 frames, where's only a maximum of 5(like their A350s) were needed for two routes. With further cooperation from UA, either IAH(depending on oil) or ORD could be launched as well! Plus since LAX is 2x daily and goes nonstop with the ULR, the ICN stop can be shifted to another destination! Exciting expansion for SIA!