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LeCoqFrancais
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Garuda Indonesia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:39 pm

Garuda Indonesia is preparing to launch flights to Los Angeles in 2017, contingent on Indonesian authorities securing an expected upgrade from the US FAA to a Category 1 safety rating. US flights represent the biggest – and riskiest – step in an overall strategic initiative by Garuda to boost its international presence.
Garuda’s brand is not known in the US market, which it has not served for two decades, and it will have to overcome intense competition. Garuda will be only the third Southeast Asian airline in the US market, following the suspension of Los Angeles by Thai Airways and Malaysia Airlines. However, Los Angeles is very well served by North Asian airlines – most of which offer connections in the Indonesia-US market – and the withdrawal of Thai Airways and Malaysia Airlines speaks to the challenges that Garuda will confront.
Garuda was initially hoping to serve Jakarta-Los Angeles nonstop, which would enable it to differentiate its product. However, Garuda now realises that it will at least initially have to settle on a one-stop product via Tokyo. Garuda will benefit from the ability to carry local passengers between the Japan and the US, but Tokyo-Los Angeles is an extremely competitive route.

http://www.aviationgazette.com/garuda-i ... via-tokyo/
-
Not a very competitive offering if they fly via Tokyo. Or am I wrong?
Sébastien C. Tourillon
 
hayzel777
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:02 pm

This is a stupid route. No one even knows them, and they have competition from SQ, NH, JL, UA, DL, AA.
 
hayzel777
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:07 pm

All those are well known in the US yet no one has even heard of GA. They are relying heavily upon the O&D traffic of Indonesians in LA, but that isn't even enough to fill their planes.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:20 pm

Finally some much needed competition to SQ's money losing North American ops, but without the brand recognition or competence
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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EPA001
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:23 pm

LeCoqFrancais wrote:
Not a very competitive offering if they fly via Tokyo. Or am I wrong?


Well, I am sure they have run the numbers through their business models and cam cup with this option. For them I hope that they will be successful with it.
 
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EPA001
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:25 pm

EPA001 wrote:
Well, I am sure they have run the numbers through their business models and cam cup with this option. For them I hope that they will be successful with it.


Correction because of a typo and I nog found the edit button yet in the new site layout.

Well, I am sure they have run the numbers through their business models and came up with this option. For them I hope that they will be successful with it.
 
klwright69
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:45 pm

Well I wonder what they are going to do?
I know the MH and I think Korean used to be on this route.
This route is choking with competition. I wish them luck.
 
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Polot
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:54 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Finally some much needed competition to SQ's money losing North American ops, but without the brand recognition or competence

Perfect timing too. Right when half the competitors will be moving to the preferred Tokyo airport. Maybe they should also move back to LGW and start a JFK tag from there too.
 
klwright69
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:01 pm

Polot that was pretty funny. Maybe they can distinguish themselves, but how? But are all the competitors moving to Haneda from LAX? Oh UA will not. Who else?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:02 pm

LeCoqFrancais wrote:
-
Not a very competitive offering if they fly via Tokyo. Or am I wrong?


IMHO you are wrong. Nobody is flying KUL-LAX/SFO/YVR nonstop. A TYO stop is on a the Great Circle route KUL-LAX. It doesn't distinguish them but it's no worse that other KUL-HKG/ICN/TPE etc. routings.
 
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Polot
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:15 pm

klwright69 wrote:
Polot that was pretty funny. Maybe they can distinguish themselves, but how? But are all the competitors moving to Haneda from LAX? Oh UA will not. Who else?

UA will not be moving, but they will have a daytime HND-LAX flight via their JV partner ANA. DL and AA will almost certainly be awarded daytime slots to continue operating their HND-LAX flights (moving from current nighttime flights) giving every major US and Japanese airline a daytime flight presence from HND (JL via JV with AA).

Like most 5th freedom routes, GA will distinguish themselves by being cheap. Which is great for consumers, not so great for GA. But this route is probably solely for prestige and vanity anyways.
MIflyer12 wrote:
LeCoqFrancais wrote:
-
Not a very competitive offering if they fly via Tokyo. Or am I wrong?


IMHO you are wrong. Nobody is flying KUL-LAX/SFO/YVR nonstop. A TYO stop is on a the Great Circle route KUL-LAX. It doesn't distinguish them but it's no worse that other KUL-HKG/ICN/TPE etc. routings.

GA will be originating from CGK, not KUL ;) But you are right that Tokyo isn't that far out of the way. It is about 100 miles longer than a CGK-LAX nonstop.
Last edited by Polot on Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
a380787
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:17 pm

Polot wrote:
klwright69 wrote:
Polot that was pretty funny. Maybe they can distinguish themselves, but how? But are all the competitors moving to Haneda from LAX? Oh UA will not. Who else?

UA will not be moving, but they will have a daytime HND-LAX flight via their JV partner ANA. DL and AA will almost certainly be awarded daytime slots to continue operating their HND-LAX flights (moving from current nighttime flights) giving every major US and Japanese airline a daytime flight presence from HND (JL via JV with AA).

Like most 5th freedom routes, GA will distinguish themselves by being cheap. Which is great for consumers, not so great for GA. But this route is probably solely for prestige and vanity anyways.


minor correction - it is rumored/believed that ANA's 3 daytime slots would be JFK ORD HNL while they retain LAX in the night-time one.
 
chiraagnt
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:18 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Finally some much needed competition to SQ's money losing North American ops, but without the brand recognition or competence


'Money losing North American Ops' says who exactly? Curious to see some evidence to back up this 'claim'.

Anyways, CAPA has an interesting article analyzing Garuda Ops to the US. 'http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/garuda-indonesia-part-2-us-expansion-starting-with-los-angeles-will-be-challenging-and-risky-287077'

It's a members only article but to summarize in CAPA's words,

'Thai’s decision to drop Seoul-Los Angeles provides another indication of the huge challenges that Garuda will face in making Los Angeles work. Garuda believes that strategically it needs to serve the US market. However, for most Southeast Asian flag carriers (Philippine Airlines and Singapore Airlines exempted) the argument can be made that the US is not a critical market, and is best served through partnerships.

Indonesia-US is a growing market; based on OAG Traffic Analyser data it has doubled in size since 2012, broadly speaking. However, it is still a relatively small market and lacks significant premium traffic.

Most significantly, Garuda has a geographic disadvantage and cannot reasonably expect to carry significant sixth freedom transit traffic from other countries to the US. Garuda therefore will have to rely almost entirely on a relatively limited local market that is already highly competitive.

Launching Los Angeles will be a huge investment as Garuda will need to work hard to raise its brand awareness in the US. Garuda is prepared to make such investments, and cross-subsidise new long haul routes such as London and Los Angeles by covering its losses from its profits in the domestic market.

However, Garuda may be better off passing on Los Angeles and focusing on other investments that are less risky. A stronger partnership with Delta could be potentially pursued under Category 1, and perhaps could give Garuda a valid excuse for reconsidering its own US services.'
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:25 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
LeCoqFrancais wrote:
-
Not a very competitive offering if they fly via Tokyo. Or am I wrong?


IMHO you are wrong. Nobody is flying KUL-LAX/SFO/YVR nonstop. A TYO stop is on a the Great Circle route KUL-LAX. It doesn't distinguish them but it's no worse that other KUL-HKG/ICN/TPE etc. routings.


Garuda would fly from CGK not KUL.

GA flying to the US makes no sense however. There are few business ties, no significant Indonesian expatriate community to tap into, most of the tourists are heading to DPS not CGK and CGK is a geographically useless hub for US residents.

If GA is going to try it, they should try something unique like CGK-OOL-LAX to tap into 5th freedom traffic between the US and Australia; not a hyper-competitive route like TYO-LAX.
 
a380787
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:43 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
LeCoqFrancais wrote:
-
Not a very competitive offering if they fly via Tokyo. Or am I wrong?


IMHO you are wrong. Nobody is flying KUL-LAX/SFO/YVR nonstop. A TYO stop is on a the Great Circle route KUL-LAX. It doesn't distinguish them but it's no worse that other KUL-HKG/ICN/TPE etc. routings.


Garuda would fly from CGK not KUL.

GA flying to the US makes no sense however. There are few business ties, no significant Indonesian expatriate community to tap into, most of the tourists are heading to DPS not CGK and CGK is a geographically useless hub for US residents.

If GA is going to try it, they should try something unique like CGK-OOL-LAX to tap into 5th freedom traffic between the US and Australia; not a hyper-competitive route like TYO-LAX.


For a strange detour via Australia, perhaps CGK-CNS-LAX might make slightly more sense. For going through Japan, perhaps CGK-KIX-LAX is not as crowded, which can be served with 330s instead of requiring a big fat 77W.

But I agree with the consensus that none of the options make any sense for GA no matter how much we love to spin the O&D and connecting potential.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:48 pm

a380787 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

IMHO you are wrong. Nobody is flying KUL-LAX/SFO/YVR nonstop. A TYO stop is on a the Great Circle route KUL-LAX. It doesn't distinguish them but it's no worse that other KUL-HKG/ICN/TPE etc. routings.


Garuda would fly from CGK not KUL.

GA flying to the US makes no sense however. There are few business ties, no significant Indonesian expatriate community to tap into, most of the tourists are heading to DPS not CGK and CGK is a geographically useless hub for US residents.

If GA is going to try it, they should try something unique like CGK-OOL-LAX to tap into 5th freedom traffic between the US and Australia; not a hyper-competitive route like TYO-LAX.


For a strange detour via Australia, perhaps CGK-CNS-LAX might make slightly more sense. For going through Japan, perhaps CGK-KIX-LAX is not as crowded, which can be served with 330s instead of requiring a big fat 77W.

But I agree with the consensus that none of the options make any sense for GA no matter how much we love to spin the O&D and connecting potential.

CNS would make more sense as well. I just said OOL because that would the first airport in Northern part Australia that I could think of without service to the US...
 
GARUDAROD
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:50 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
LeCoqFrancais wrote:
-
Not a very competitive offering if they fly via Tokyo. Or am I wrong?


IMHO you are wrong. Nobody is flying KUL-LAX/SFO/YVR nonstop. A TYO stop is on a the Great Circle route KUL-LAX. It doesn't distinguish them but it's no worse that other KUL-HKG/ICN/TPE etc. routings.


Garuda would fly from CGK not KUL.

GA flying to the US makes no sense however. There are few business ties, no significant Indonesian expatriate community to tap into, most of the tourists are heading to DPS not CGK and CGK is a geographically useless hub for US residents.

If GA is going to try it, they should try something unique like CGK-OOL-LAX to tap into 5th freedom traffic between the US and Australia; not a hyper-competitive route like TYO-LAX.


You do realize that the Los Angeles area has the highest Indonesian expat population anywhere in the world outside of the Netherlands??
This plan has been revised in one form or another over the last 19years. Ambitious plans but when the reality comes down to it, nothing
ever comes of it. I would get excited if/when the plane actually pulls up to the terminal at LAX. Until then, just another topic to spitball
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:26 pm

GARUDAROD wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

IMHO you are wrong. Nobody is flying KUL-LAX/SFO/YVR nonstop. A TYO stop is on a the Great Circle route KUL-LAX. It doesn't distinguish them but it's no worse that other KUL-HKG/ICN/TPE etc. routings.


Garuda would fly from CGK not KUL.

GA flying to the US makes no sense however. There are few business ties, no significant Indonesian expatriate community to tap into, most of the tourists are heading to DPS not CGK and CGK is a geographically useless hub for US residents.

If GA is going to try it, they should try something unique like CGK-OOL-LAX to tap into 5th freedom traffic between the US and Australia; not a hyper-competitive route like TYO-LAX.


You do realize that the Los Angeles area has the highest Indonesian expat population anywhere in the world outside of the Netherlands??
This plan has been revised in one form or another over the last 19years. Ambitious plans but when the reality comes down to it, nothing
ever comes of it. I would get excited if/when the plane actually pulls up to the terminal at LAX. Until then, just another topic to spitball


All the Indonesians in the US combined are barely 100K people. That LA has the largest population does not really mean much...
 
airbazar
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:01 pm

I agree that it will likely not succeed and lose a lot of money however I disagree somewhat with the brand awareness point. GA already flies to Tokyo (both HND and NRT) so they are known in that market for sure. LA also has a large SE Asian population most of whom, likely know about GA already. They will have an uphill battle for for sure but I don't think that brand awareness will be the main problem, especially in a time when all most passengers care is price.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:21 pm

airbazar wrote:
I agree that it will likely not succeed and lose a lot of money however I disagree somewhat with the brand awareness point. GA already flies to Tokyo (both HND and NRT) so they are known in that market for sure. LA also has a large SE Asian population most of whom, likely know about GA already. They will have an uphill battle for for sure but I don't think that brand awareness will be the main problem, especially in a time when all most passengers care is price.


That SE Asian population mostly knows about GA due to their poor safety record in the 1990's and 2000's. Additionally, one must overfly ALL other SE Asian countries to get to CGK. Geographically, CGK is the worst possible hub (as far a North America service is concerned) if you are attempting to connect pax to other SE Asian countries...
 
cesar666cu
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:47 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
GA flying to the US makes no sense however. There are few business ties, no significant Indonesian expatriate community to tap into, most of the tourists are heading to DPS not CGK and CGK is a geographically useless hub for US residents.


Garuda also flies DPS-NRT, I would assume that transit are possible between the two flights.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:12 am

It boggles my mind that all the SE Asian carriers stop in the most competitive markets. Meanwhile, KIX NGO CTS FUK are sitting there virtually untapped. Must be a reason I suppose, but I would love for someone to think outside the box for once.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
infinit
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:21 am

This will not work.. SQ would have zapped away any chance they had. SQ is the de facto national airline of Indonesia, SIN being right in the middle of the Indonesian archipelago, flying to every major Indonesian city through SQ mainline, Silkair and Tiger.

GA also doesnt have nearly the amount of 5th/6th freedom has around Asia that SQ has.

They'll probably only be able to get some of the lowest yielding traffic.

This is definitely a move driven by pride, albeit a foolish one
 
Viscount724
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:03 am

infinit wrote:
This will not work.. SQ would have zapped away any chance they had. SQ is the de facto national airline of Indonesia, SIN being right in the middle of the Indonesian archipelago, flying to every major Indonesian city through SQ mainline, Silkair and Tiger.

GA also doesnt have nearly the amount of 5th/6th freedom has around Asia that SQ has.

They'll probably only be able to get some of the lowest yielding traffic.

This is definitely a move driven by pride, albeit a foolish one


It made no sense when GA previously served LAX for several years from the late 1980s until the mid-1990s or so during the Suharto regime and makes no more sense now, especially if it's routed via Japan where there's a huge amount of capacity and GA will be left with only the lowest-yield traffic.

Their previous service initially used the DC-10-30 and when it ended it was using the MD-11. Before the MD-11 I think the 747-200 combi was also used for a while on that route. Routing was Jakarta-Denpasar-Biak-Honolulu-Los Angeles. No local traffic of course HNL-LAX.

In the October 1996 OAG it was 5 x week with MD-11.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:20 am

chiraagnt wrote:
'Money losing North American Ops' says who exactly?

Here's one such source:

"SIA’s long-haul routes have been almost consistently loss-making since FY09 as its competitors have refined their strategy and successfully established themselves into SIA’s markets"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/distresse ... 00263.html

From what I understand, "long-haul" here encompasses their routes to Europe and the Americas, not East Asia nor Australia/NZ.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
grbauc
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:10 am

I've Flown Garuda several times and found them to be fine. On par with Malaysia airlines.
 
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riyadfilza
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:28 am

I think Garuda will fly DPS-NRT-LAX, not CGK-NRT-LAX.
Flying CGK-NRT-LAX is a bad option for Garuda, and direct flight CGK-LAX is a bloody bad, IMHO.
They're now flying DPS-NRT vv. daily with their Boeing 777-300/ER, flight number GA880/GA881.
For passengers from LAX that will going to Jakarta there are many flight options connecting DPS-CGK vv.
Garuda also flying their Boeing 777-300/ER for domestic route between DPS-CGK vv. (flight number GA421/GA412) which connected with flight GA881 NRT-DPS.

Cheers,

Riyad Filza
Last edited by riyadfilza on Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Indonesian Spotters
 
alfa164
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:31 am

chiraagnt wrote:
Launching Los Angeles will be a huge investment as Garuda will need to work hard to raise its brand awareness in the US. Garuda is prepared to make such investments, and cross-subsidise new long haul routes such as London and Los Angeles by covering its losses from its profits in the domestic market.

However, Garuda may be better off passing on Los Angeles and focusing on other investments that are less risky. A stronger partnership with Delta could be potentially pursued under Category 1, and perhaps could give Garuda a valid excuse for reconsidering its own US services.'

I wonder if GA and DL might have already had that conversation. If I recall correctly, DL will be discontuing LAX-NRT flights in favor of LAX-HND; with GA entering the NRT route, DL could utilize a codeshare to feed its own Los Angeles passengers through NRT to connect to its BKK, SIN, MNL, and the Pacific Islands desutinations, which are still routed via NRT.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
jfkgig
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:32 am

I don't think that anybody at Garuda or in the Indonesian Ministry of Transportation/Directorate of Civil Aviation is thinking that GA is going to be making lots of money on this route. Indonesia is run by and for its cronies, and decisions are generally made on what is good for favored persons or groups -- and not on market analysis or a profit and loss statement. They all know that they will lose money on this route, and are prepared to subsidize it as they do much of Indonesian trade and industry. There is much more handwringing about the losses to be sustained by GA than has ever taken place in Jakarta over this decision. Applying market logic to decisions of the Indonesian government won't provide much insight into their actions. They do the same thing with the rice market, the oil transport market, the petroleum market, etc., etc. -- Indonesia has many sectors which operate as a command economy, and not a free market.

This might be bad for the Indonesian taxpayer, but I think that it will be very good for the US traveller. Garuda is a much improved airline, and if it flies its new 777W on the route, that is a very good product upfront indeed, and will likely be offered for fares well below the competition. I would certainly choose GA over SQ between LAX-CGK, and avoid an extra stop and several extra hours of flying time.
 
hayzel777
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:20 am

cesar666cu wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
GA flying to the US makes no sense however. There are few business ties, no significant Indonesian expatriate community to tap into, most of the tourists are heading to DPS not CGK and CGK is a geographically useless hub for US residents.


Garuda also flies DPS-NRT, I would assume that transit are possible between the two flights.


If they time it right they might be able to. The flight to DPS leaves at 11:00 AM.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:06 am

Do GA still have the amazing first class product on their long haul flights ?
 
airbazar
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:45 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
That SE Asian population mostly knows about GA due to their poor safety record in the 1990's and 2000's. Additionally, one must overfly ALL other SE Asian countries to get to CGK. Geographically, CGK is the worst possible hub (as far a North America service is concerned) if you are attempting to connect pax to other SE Asian countries...

I don't disagree however I need to point out that once upon a time KE had an equally bad safety reputation and that SQ somehow manages to connect a lot of passengers in that same market via SIN. For the right price no one cares about a 2 hour backtrack.

OzarkD9S wrote:
It boggles my mind that all the SE Asian carriers stop in the most competitive markets. Meanwhile, KIX NGO CTS FUK are sitting there virtually untapped. Must be a reason I suppose, but I would love for someone to think outside the box for once.

Cost! If they already fly to NRT, it makes the most sense to just extend that flight rather than open a brand new station and now having to deal with 2 new destinations.
 
infinit
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:28 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
chiraagnt wrote:
'Money losing North American Ops' says who exactly?

Here's one such source:

"SIA’s long-haul routes have been almost consistently loss-making since FY09 as its competitors have refined their strategy and successfully established themselves into SIA’s markets"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/distresse ... 00263.html

From what I understand, "long-haul" here encompasses their routes to Europe and the Americas, not East Asia nor Australia/NZ.


There was another thread recently about this. I would dispute it. It is reposted by Yahoo in your quote but the original source is a Malaysian bank. That says enough..
 
a380787
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:09 pm

infinit wrote:
There was another thread recently about this. I would dispute it. It is reposted by Yahoo in your quote but the original source is a Malaysian bank. That says enough..


Of course the Malaysian bank has no credibility. We're talking about both a nation (SIN) and an airline (SQ) that has thoroughly trounced its previous parent nation by orders of magnitude in every measurable metric, and the bitterness definitely shows.
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:33 pm

Not that it would make much difference, but does GA have the rights to serve LAX via SGN or HAN? It would fill a huge hole between LAX-Vietnam and also serve a fellow SkyTeam member hub.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:30 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
Not that it would make much difference, but does GA have the rights to serve LAX via SGN or HAN? It would fill a huge hole between LAX-Vietnam and also serve a fellow SkyTeam member hub.


Good idea but SGN-LAX is 8100+ miles and Vietnam is a high-volume but infamously low yield market from the US. A lethal combo for ULH. HKG might be a better option as they would be the only competitor to CX/AA and HKG has no curfew so more ideal flight times are possible. I always wondered why TG never tried flying to the US via HKG. Much less competitive market and TG had all of the infrastructure in HKG (including a lounge) to make it work...
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:59 pm

infinit wrote:
I would dispute it.

Using what information as your basis?

Longhaul tags have been all-but abandoned by the overwhelming majority of airlines all over the world.

Sure longer ranged aircraft have assisted in that; but even for airlines where the longest ULH can't help them, they still find a greater benefit in ceding a route rather than face the cost of a tag.

Thus, in the absence of contradictory information directly from SQ, why so quick to doubt it?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
cityairline
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:02 am

Seems like a major waste of useful aircraft, and of course money.
Something worth remembering is that Philippine Airlines (the only airline to fly California - Southeast Asia nonstop) serves LAX and SFO daily with the 77W, and will increase both to double daily next year. And these two routes are the core of the airline's long haul operations and where it's making the biggest money.

Although, the two major differences between GA and PR in California are crucial!
First of all, the Indonesian population in California is less than 40,000 while the Filipino population is 1.5 million (the largest Asian group in the state).
Second of all, the MNL-LAX route is already very long with its 7300 miles, compared to CGK-LAX which is 9000 miles. That's another three hours of flying on an already long flight!

The only other Southeast Asian carrier (besides PR and SQ) that I can see add LAX or SFO is VN. Even though it's also a very long flight with low yielding VFR, if they do it right I can see them succeed among the 700,000 strong Vietnamese diaspora in California with either the 789 or A359.

The Garuda CGK/DPS-NRT-LAX just seem worthless.

/Alex
I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:23 am

cityairline wrote:
Philippine Airlines (the only airline to fly California - Southeast Asia nonstop)

There's a United Airlines 789 on its way to SIN, that might beg to differ....
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
travelin man
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:28 am

CI and BR capture a huge chunk of the SE Asia/California traffic via TPE. It really makes no sense for GA to fly their own metal to LAX.
 
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LAX772LR
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Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Garuda Indonesdia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:33 am

travelin man wrote:
CI and BR capture a huge chunk of the SE Asia/California traffic via TPE.

And CX via HKG
And KE via ICN
And OZ via ICN
And JL via NRT
And NH via NRT
...heck, and even DL via NRT
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
mandala499
Posts: 6591
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

Re: Garuda Indonesia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:20 am

For passengers from LAX that will going to Jakarta there are many flight options connecting DPS-CGK vv.

Oh God, that is so going add fuel to the CGK vs DPS debate for GA long haul ops that has been going on for 3 decades.
Why would I go on a 2 stop if a 1 stop is available for the same price if not cheaper? (CX, CI, BR, JL, NH, UA (via SIN then onto SQ))

I don't think that anybody at Garuda or in the Indonesian Ministry of Transportation/Directorate of Civil Aviation is thinking that GA is going to be making lots of money on this route.

Actually, there are people in Garuda and the ministry who thinks the route will make money. Just like LHR... they're now saying "oh, this screwed up, that screwed up" etc... Except the CEO is like "why the hell do I have to deal with this mess caused by other people"...
Many in the industry is actually worried that we might be upgraded to FAA Cat 1, which will be translated by cronies in the ministry as "justification" for their ridiculous safety policies of "blame first, as questions later" on safety, which is against safety management principles.

GA'S long haul, while a good product, will continue to be a financial disaster, propped up by GA's domestic and regional operations. LHR is a disaster, and "will take time to mature", but AMS is better but it's viability is questionable given the loads and yields.

As long as GA and the government thinks VFR and leisure traffic can sustain long haul operations, the bleeding shall continue. But even their understanding of the business market, outside Asia, is also questionable. London was opened citing huge growth in the trade between Indonesia and UK... yet...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
SIA747Megatop
Posts: 412
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:36 am

Re: Garuda Indonesia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:05 am

SQ is a very popular option for Indonesians heading to the US.
FWIW most of the times I've flown SQ F/R to SFO/LAX the cabin has been filled with Indonesians.
"I do not yet know of a man who became a leader as a result of having undergone a leadership course." - Lee Kuan Yew
 
klwright69
Posts: 2693
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

Re: Garuda Indonesia to serve Los Angeles via Tokyo

Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:38 am

I don't think it matters much that Garuda used to have a poor safety reputation. Emphasis being used to.
You still find people in America that still think they can buy tickets on Continental, Northwest, and USAir.

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