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santi319
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Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:46 pm

"Well known for flying a single fleet type, the Airbus Group SE A320, Spirit is studying considering Bombardier Inc.’s C Series family of jets, the CEO said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-20/spirit-ceo-wants-to-end-airline-s-poor-reputation-for-being-late

Interesting development, I always thought NK would be the first American Long Haul Low Cost, but I guess I was wrong and they are actually trying the opposite..
 
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enilria
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:05 pm

santi319 wrote:
"Well known for flying a single fleet type, the Airbus Group SE A320, Spirit is studying considering Bombardier Inc.’s C Series family of jets, the CEO said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-20/spirit-ceo-wants-to-end-airline-s-poor-reputation-for-being-late

Interesting development, I always thought NK would be the first American Long Haul Low Cost, but I guess I was wrong and they are actually trying the opposite..

RLF did the 717 deal at Air Tran. I think this would be kind of mirror image. I'm not sure whether the 717 was the right move for AirTran in hindsight since it became orphaned. The same could happen here.

I think there are really two factors at play.

1) RLF wants to go into markets that sound like the old AirTran markets and the C-Series is really the size of airplane needed to make them work. I hear there could be an announcement in the next 30 days with something drawn from the old cast of characters: ROC/MKE/CAK/FNT/PHF/BKG/ICT. The fleet complexity wouldn't be a good thing, though.

2) From a macro perspective getting smaller or larger planes than the rest of the industry works best when you go against the flow. A few years ago everybody was getting bigger planes to reduce fuel burn per seat, but it means a lot of markets can't maintain service any more with a bigger airplane. Now, it seems the pendulum has already swung back and the legacies are acquiring 100-120 seaters which means there isn't as much opportunity in that segment. The opportunity is really in the nearly abandoned 50 seater segment at current fuel prices, but the pilot shortage kills that option.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:50 pm

It would be huge for BKG. Sidenote, the theme park there, called Silver Dollar City is rumored to be throwing down huge money on expansion and it looks like there's a chance the neighboring Arkansas county that lies just a couple of miles to the south of BKG's runway could get casinos if approved in Nov. I'm willing to bet that if approved the Bass Pro folks will be a major part of that.

I hope Memphis and XNA gets some Spirit action with possible C Series.

AirTran had BKG well over 100,000 enplanements.
 
qcpilotxf
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:20 pm

While i was at NK, there was alot of talk of moving away from the old plan of larger planes and bigger markets, to more of a FL style with smaller markets. There was talks about even shifting some of the NEO orders to 319s and 320 and reduce the 321 orders. I do think that adding another fleet type would complicate NK slightly more than it needs to be, especially with alot of contracted stations. Bens plan was more lines between the dots, Bobs plan is more dots, alot more dots. I beleive the C Series would fit in very well if they go in the FL direction. The midwest needs another option, NK could be that option.

When i started at NK i also thought that they were going to end up being a larger international carrier for low cost, and with the old plan with could have been a thing. But now we are just looking at FL 2.0
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:06 pm

[quote=

1) RLF wants to go into markets that sound like the old AirTran markets and the C-Series is really the size of airplane needed to make them work. I hear there could be an announcement in the next 30 days with something drawn from the old cast of characters: ROC/MKE/CAK/FNT/PHF/BKG/ICT. [/quote]

I for one would love to see NK get a smaller type and do something like this. The WN merger with FL hurt a lot of smaller airports like MLI, BKG, BMI etc. This could open up a lot of opportunities. I'm wondering if they would do point to point routes, or connect smaller markets into their focus cities like ORD, DTW, DFW and then on to their destinations? Could be interesting to see.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:55 pm

Remember the snarkily named "AllegienTran" markets FL was operating for a time? The C-Series would be ideal for NK to flesh out the network. And the range possibilities! Markets like CID, PIA etc could end up with a CUN flight or two. Heck, NK could dedicate probably 10 or more C-Series on markets like that alone.
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LAX772LR
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:29 am

santi319 wrote:
I always thought NK would be the first American Long Haul Low Cost, but I guess I was wrong

Be rather tough for Spirit to be first, when we had Tower Air way back in 1983, and probably some other longhaul LoCo before even then. ;)
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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kaminari
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:44 am

A C-Series aircraft left ATL to FLL after showing it to Delta back in April right before Delta's announcement. Spirit had a whole bunch of management types there to tour the aircraft and ask questions. I happened to be around and asked one of them if Spirit was actually interested. One guy said shrugged it off as just a typical sales pitch. Last month, I asked someone else at Spirit about it and they just kind of shyly ignored the question because apparently it was supposed to be a huge secret.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:52 am

AirTran was close to starting SBN-ATL before the merger. Delta Load Factors are high enough on the ATL morning flights right now to combine the two into one B717 flight. Even with G4 at SBN covering most leisure destinations, with the C-Series Spirit could find markets such as SBN-DFW which is SBN's number three market without any N/S flights or other markets such as DEN and make the market work. Plus lots of old AirTran markets not taken by G4 such as BMI/FNT would be ideal for the aircraft.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:54 am

I believe Bob Fornaro want's to make Spirit into AirTran light. Improving service, Reliability, and return to most previous AirTran markets that were abandoned by WN.
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:00 am

freakyrat wrote:
AirTran was close to starting SBN-ATL before the merger. Delta Load Factors are high enough on the ATL morning flights right now to combine the two into one B717 flight. Even with G4 at SBN covering most leisure destinations, with the C-Series Spirit could find markets such as SBN-DFW which is SBN's number three market without any N/S flights or other markets such as DEN and make the market work. Plus lots of old AirTran markets not taken by G4 such as BMI/FNT would be ideal for the aircraft.


FL was even closer to FWA-ATL than they were SBN. Bob Fornaro was talking with the FWACAA very deeply at that point, and he actually shared a cubicle with Dave Young (FWA's air service director at the time, now at RDU) when at US. Only the WN merger stopped it.

But you're right in that the CSeries makes perfect sense if Fornaro wants to get NK into smaller markets. Who knows - I bet the FWA/Fornaro connections are still there as Scott Hinderman, the current FWACAA director, was at FWA when Fornaro was running AirTran.
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Beatyair
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:16 am

I find it interesting. The idea staying with one family of plane allows an airline to have one set of parts, any pilot can fly any plane. It works really go until they decide to get a different plane. Bless WN.
 
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767333ER
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:32 am

Beatyair wrote:
I find it interesting. The idea staying with one family of plane allows an airline to have one set of parts, any pilot can fly any plane. It works really go until they decide to get a different plane. Bless WN.


At what point it is more cost effective to keep the same fleet type for all operations or to introduce a new type which is far more efficient for smaller markets where there is good money to be made?
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MaksFly
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:52 am

Spirit is a really interesting airline. I would not really fly them for over 2 hours, especially with status on Delta... but for vacations and convenience out of smaller airports... sure.

Would be awesome if Spirit ordered the SuperJet. =) Would be far cheaper but maybe a tad too small for them.
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:53 pm

F9 keeps some smaller markets in its system that I could see work for NK like DSM, CID, MSN, FSD etc. Looking at their route map I could see them placing strategically placed hubs/focus cities at FLL, ATL, DFW, LAS, ORD, DTW, LAX, MCO. I wonder if they would enter smaller cities using the less than daily model like they use themselves at CRW or like F9 does or if they would do daily service. There is a lot of potential markets they could do well in. I think WN is going to have to look at this as well if they want to grow in the future.
 
sxf24
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:43 pm

If Spirit gets the sub-$20M price Delta got for the CS100, they'd be stupid not to buy the C-Series.
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:18 pm

Anyone think that NK can fit 30 rows of 3x3 in a C-series?
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:03 am

sxf24 wrote:
If Spirit gets the sub-$20M price Delta got for the CS100, they'd be stupid not to buy the C-Series.


There is no way NK is getting the same price DL got. DL's Cseries order is almost as large as NK's current fleet.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:32 am

This is very interesting news. I also think it would be a great move for Spirit. The C Series would be a great plane, especially for new markets that will take time to mature. I sure would be willing to give Spirit a try if they get the C Series.

The CEO seems to be interested in investing a bit into its operation and service side of things. There is nothing wrong with that, as I am sure it will benefit their not so popular image.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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spinkid
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:48 am

With an aircraft that size they could also get into an airport like HPN. Air Tran did quite well there.
 
wrongwayup
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:39 am

sxf24 wrote:
If Spirit gets the sub-$20M price Delta got for the CS100, they'd be stupid not to buy the C-Series.


Not sure where your numbers come from. The DL price is most certainly not sub-$20M.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:47 am

767333ER wrote:
Beatyair wrote:
I find it interesting. The idea staying with one family of plane allows an airline to have one set of parts, any pilot can fly any plane. It works really go until they decide to get a different plane. Bless WN.


At what point it is more cost effective to keep the same fleet type for all operations or to introduce a new type which is far more efficient for smaller markets where there is good money to be made?


Different carriers believe the trade-off function has different shapes. Trying to reconcile WN's view with DL's view would make your head explode.

IMHO if Spirit believed commonality had high value and that serving smaller markets had high value it would pursue 319s (NEO or CEO), not C-series.
 
sxf24
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:41 am

wrongwayup wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
If Spirit gets the sub-$20M price Delta got for the CS100, they'd be stupid not to buy the C-Series.


Not sure where your numbers come from. The DL price is most certainly not sub-$20M.


It most certainly is. Delta has said privately to several people that it's $18M.
 
wrongwayup
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:02 am

sxf24 wrote:
wrongwayup wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
If Spirit gets the sub-$20M price Delta got for the CS100, they'd be stupid not to buy the C-Series.


Not sure where your numbers come from. The DL price is most certainly not sub-$20M.


It most certainly is. Delta has said privately to several people that it's $18M.


I suppose you're one of those people?
 
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767333ER
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Re: Spirit Airlines looking at C-Series

Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:44 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Different carriers believe the trade-off function has different shapes. Trying to reconcile WN's view with DL's view would make your head explode.

IMHO if Spirit believed commonality had high value and that serving smaller markets had high value it would pursue 319s (NEO or CEO), not C-series.


I wonder if they to make a CSeries subfleet whether or not they would be saving money long term once the CSeries operation would become mature. It costs lots of money to introduce a new fleet type, but if it is more efficient than a similar sized plane that is already common with the rest of the fleet I unless think that it would be more profitable long term if they would get a sitnificant amount. What also would make a difference is if they are considering the CS100 or not. The A319 compares in capacity to the CS300, but the CS100, being the smaller and lighter 100 seat aircraft, is very different than the A319 and would be used for things that the A319 would not be able to do efficiently.
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