Delta pilots begin picketing at terminals

Aloha717200 · Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:47 pm

Just noticed at SLC, a line of pilots the length of the terminal picketing outside the entrance to T2, seeking a better contract. Anyone else seeing DAL pilots picketing at their location today? Any thoughts on the matter?

FriendlySkies · Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:08 pm

Saw a picket line outside the ATL south terminal this afternoon as well.

reltney · Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:41 pm

GREAT TURN OUT TOO! About time the picketing started.

Old alpa leadership failed to get back the major concessions when the airline was making record profits. Old alpa allowed the dangerous new far117 rules to be enacted. The new MEC is going to help bring representation back to its proper roll in supporting pilot instead of going to bed with management.

Great job Delta pilots!

hayzel777 · Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:11 pm

These unions...

redzeppelin · Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:18 pm

Salt Lake Tribune has some photos:
http://www.sltrib.com/news/4044914-155/ ... orlds-most

The article also says that pilots from AA and WN joined the demonstration in support of the DL pilots.

BoeingBear · Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:41 pm

They're in SEA today too. Saw two on the bridge from the parking garage to the terminal.

AirportRival · Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:55 pm

They were picketing at CVG too.

Boeing778X · Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:03 pm

Union NO! Poor passengers missing their flights.

11725Flyer · Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:13 pm

I expect to see something like this at some point.

"Pilots Grounding American Airlines Without Strike"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pilots-grou ... ut-strike/

Polot · Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:18 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
Union NO! Poor passengers missing their flights.

Nobody is missing their flights. The pilots are not on strike- they are doing this on their own time.

reltney · Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:52 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
Union NO! Poor passengers missing their flights.

Do your research before you say foolish things.
ALPA was the reason for a few things to keep your pink body safe in the skies like:
Standardized runway lighting.
Crew rest requirements.
Standard instrument layouts in cockpits(6pack).
Standardized airport markings.
Many many many other things other than this basic stuff. Don't even criticize the things which have made the skies safe for all. It is easy to research .

Here is a fact the non airline employees don't realize. Airlines like southwest are one of the highest unionized airline while Delta is one of the least unionized airlines. Wall Street is even too stupid to realize this easily research able fact. So sell silly elsewhere.

Facts are facts and they can't be argued .
Flamers can't even flame on these facts.

Cheers

deltal1011man · Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:16 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
Union NO! Poor passengers missing their flights.

this can't possibly be a serious post.

hayzel777 wrote:
These unions...

I know. Terrible.

what they should do is sit by and wait 5 or 6 years to get a contract.

Or even better, in a time of management getting tons of money, billions in stock buy backs etc. airline labor should still be taking bankruptcy style concessions. Greedy bastards, just who do they think they are!!??!!??

for anyone who can't figure it out, that was complete sarcasm.

reltney wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
Union NO! Poor passengers missing their flights.

Do your research before you say foolish things.
ALPA was the reason for a few things to keep your pink body safe in the skies like:
Standardized runway lighting.
Crew rest requirements.
Standard instrument layouts in cockpits(6pack).
Standardized airport markings.
Many many many other things other than this basic stuff. Don't even criticize the things which have made the skies safe for all. It is easy to research .

Here is a fact the non airline employees don't realize. Airlines like southwest are one of the highest unionized airline while Delta is one of the least unionized airlines. Wall Street is even too stupid to realize this easily research able fact. So sell silly elsewhere.

Facts are facts and they can't be argued .
Flamers can't even flame on these facts.

Cheers

If that was a serious post I wouldn't waste your time. People who can't figure out the difference of non-working pilots picketing vs a strike will never figure out any of the good ALPA and other unions have done in this industry.

PS, can't wait for the usual suspects to show up and tell you how terrible you and the fellow pilots are. Having said that, best of luck. A lot of people are in your corner. Please don't take the vocal minority as the majority.

reltney · Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:34 am

You are soooooo right. Why waste the time. Thanks for the reply...

klm617 · Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:33 am

reltney wrote:
GREAT TURN OUT TOO! About time the picketing started.

Old alpa leadership failed to get back the major concessions when the airline was making record profits. Old alpa allowed the dangerous new far117 rules to be enacted. The new MEC is going to help bring representation back to its proper roll in supporting pilot instead of going to bed with management.

Great job Delta pilots!

I agree great job Delta pilots. Ed Bastian and his band of merry men think they can bully anyone just so they can get their way. Thank You Delta pilots for your many safe flights and for showing this money making machine they need to show some integrity to those who made this airline great. From what I can see Delta shows no loyalty to anyone except Atlanta and it's investors.

toltommy · Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:13 am

[quote="reltney"]

Do your research before you say foolish things.
ALPA was the reason for a few things to keep your pink body safe in the skies like:
Standardized runway lighting.
Crew rest requirements.
Standard instrument layouts in cockpits(6pack).
Standardized airport markings.

Facts are facts and they can't be argued .
Flamers can't even flame on these facts.{/quote]

There was a time unions were useful. These items make that clear. But that was what, 50 years ago? What you created 50 years ago doesn't translate with today's union members. at least here in the states there are plenty of government agencies to make sure work is done safely. The value of a union just isn't what it once was.

That being said, the Delta pilots probably voted down their best contract last year. Fuel is going back up, and revenue is being squeezed by the LCCs. The money for a pilot contract that they had a year ago just isn't there today.

klm617 · Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:22 am

toltommy wrote:
reltney wrote:

Do your research before you say foolish things.
ALPA was the reason for a few things to keep your pink body safe in the skies like:
Standardized runway lighting.
Crew rest requirements.
Standard instrument layouts in cockpits(6pack).
Standardized airport markings.

Facts are facts and they can't be argued .
Flamers can't even flame on these facts.{/quote]

There was a time unions were useful. These items make that clear. But that was what, 50 years ago? What you created 50 years ago doesn't translate with today's union members. at least here in the states there are plenty of government agencies to make sure work is done safely. The value of a union just isn't what it once was.

That being said, the Delta pilots probably voted down their best contract last year. Fuel is going back up, and revenue is being squeezed by the LCCs. The money for a pilot contract that they had a year ago just isn't there today.

Sorry I disagree the time for unions is becoming ripe again with outsourcing, Through consolidation many jobs eliminated with a lot of people having no option but to start all over after working many years for a company they thought they'd retire from and all this regional flying that takes jobs away from frontline workers who get paid little for the jobs they do at regionals just so the investors can roll in the green without a care to a given companies workforce to live a lavish life style. Yes maybe in the 70's and 80's when things were good the Unions did a lot of damage but it's time is coming again if this squeezing of the employers keeps up. I'm not in favor of raises all the time but more job security for those who have invested their time and effort into making a company great. Today labor is viewed as a necesscery evil that if it could be eliminated tomorrow it would be which is a sad thought if you are an employee at any company.

smokeybandit · Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:52 am

deltal1011man wrote:
I know. Terrible.

what they should do is sit by and wait 5 or 6 years to get a contract.

Then get all their back pay retroactively when the new contract is signed. So terrible.

deltal1011man · Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:13 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
I know. Terrible.

what they should do is sit by and wait 5 or 6 years to get a contract.

Then get all their back pay retroactively when the new contract is signed. So terrible.

That is a big assumption.
Also not really how it normally works.

reltney wrote:
You are soooooo right. Why waste the time. Thanks for the reply...

Best of luck to you and the rest of the pilots.

toltommy wrote:

There was a time unions were useful. These items make that clear. But that was what, 50 years ago? What you created 50 years ago doesn't translate with today's union members. at least here in the states there are plenty of government agencies to make sure work is done safely. The value of a union just isn't what it once was.

You might want to get a better understanding on airline labor if you honestly think that is true.
Wall street wants more outsourcing, for the most part unions keep that from happening.

toltommy wrote:
That being said, the Delta pilots probably voted down their best contract last year. Fuel is going back up, and revenue is being squeezed by the LCCs. The money for a pilot contract that they had a year ago just isn't there today.

Nothing like a little fear pushing to star the day off right. Also shows that you clearly aren't keeping up with DLs numbers. Margins are growing, if that is happening how is the money not there?

klm617 wrote:

I agree great job Delta pilots. Ed Bastian and his band of merry men think they can bully anyone just so they can get their way. Thank You Delta pilots for your many safe flights and for showing this money making machine they need to show some integrity to those who made this airline great. From what I can see Delta shows no loyalty to anyone except Atlanta and it's investors.

Dude you need to get some help.
This is getting as bad as the kid who is obsessed with the 767-400. Trolling on every thread.

geologyrocks · Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:09 am

I've never really understood the point in picketing. Right or wrong on what you're picketing for, I don't think the average person cares. The FedEx pilots ran a billboard in Memphis about their contract. Memphis is a very poor city. I guarantee that nobody drove past that billboard thinking how sorry they felt for pilots that are making 8x the average annual income of the city.

I'm a dues paying ATC. With that being said, like pilots, I think the majority of passengers don't care about my pay or benefits so long as it doesn't affect their time or safety.

northwestEWR · Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:34 am

They've been picketing over the last couple of weeks. I believe the last one was at the shareholder's meeting in NYC.

They really aren't going to get any sympathy from the general public and definitely not from all the other employees. Millions are struggling to make ends meet, working 2 jobs, etc etc etc.... these guys are all paid very well already and certainly upper middle class or upper class. There aren't very many Delta pilots making less than 100K/year. 98% of the country would be beyond thankful to make that kind of money.

Negotiations are slow because the pilot's demands have been ridiculous.

They're currently the #2 (IIRC) best paid in the industry only following UA (I think)'s new contract.
They just got a 20 something percent raise.
They already have extremely pilot-friendly work rules and exceedingly generous 401k/retirement/sick/etc/etc/etc. WAY beyond what anyone else gets at Delta. It's not even close.

Now they're asking for:
40% raise this year
Another 17% over the next 3
Relaxing already pilot-friendly work rules

The entitlement attitude of these guys is incredible. How much is enough? They just got 20% raises....now they want another 67%? COME ON.

klm617 · Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:13 am

klm617 wrote:

I agree great job Delta pilots. Ed Bastian and his band of merry men think they can bully anyone just so they can get their way. Thank You Delta pilots for your many safe flights and for showing this money making machine they need to show some integrity to those who made this airline great. From what I can see Delta shows no loyalty to anyone except Atlanta and it's investors.

Dude you need to get some help.
This is getting as bad as the kid who is obsessed with the 767-400. Trolling on every thread.[/quote]

Why because I'm not a Delta fanboy that embraces their business practices.

baqnav · Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:58 am

Anyone see any other carriers pilots standing in solidarity with Delta sisters and brothers?

bgm · Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:02 am

Stay classy, Delta! :mrgreen:

longhauler · Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:17 am

northwestEWR wrote:
There aren't very many Delta pilots making less than 100K/year. 98% of the country would be beyond thankful to make that kind of money.

And just about every one of those "rest of the country" folks had the same opportunity to be pilots had they desired.

pdxdlfan · Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:00 am

I've never understood employees in professions joining unions and threatening to strike. I'm a finance professional and if I don't think I'm getting paid a fair amount or I'm dissatisfied with working conditions, I find employment at another company. Professionals should act like professionals and not air their grievances to the general public.

geologyrocks · Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:32 am

longhauler wrote:
northwestEWR wrote:
There aren't very many Delta pilots making less than 100K/year. 98% of the country would be beyond thankful to make that kind of money.

And just about every one of those "rest of the country" folks had the same opportunity to be pilots had they desired.

But that's not the point. I'm certainly not going to argue that people don't make their own choices in life but you have to know your audience. The guy at Subway wouldn't shed one tear if I started complaining about my pay to him.

deltal1011man · Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:11 am

northwestEWR wrote:
They've been picketing over the last couple of weeks. I believe the last one was at the shareholder's meeting in NYC.

They really aren't going to get any sympathy from the general public and definitely not from all the other employees. Millions are struggling to make ends meet, working 2 jobs, etc etc etc.... these guys are all paid very well already and certainly upper middle class or upper class. There aren't very many Delta pilots making less than 100K/year. 98% of the country would be beyond thankful to make that kind of money.

Negotiations are slow because the pilot's demands have been ridiculous.

They're currently the #2 (IIRC) best paid in the industry only following UA (I think)'s new contract.
They just got a 20 something percent raise.
They already have extremely pilot-friendly work rules and exceedingly generous 401k/retirement/sick/etc/etc/etc. WAY beyond what anyone else gets at Delta. It's not even close.

Now they're asking for:
40% raise this year
Another 17% over the next 3
Relaxing already pilot-friendly work rules

The entitlement attitude of these guys is incredible. How much is enough? They just got 20% raises....now they want another 67%? COME ON.

Speak for yourself

and educate yourself on what the pilots want, what the company wants and what the company asked for in the last TA. (and i don't mean DL corp com)

but yes, their is a small part of DL employees who will always be butt hurt because they aren't pilots. That'll never change.

pdxdlfan wrote:
I've never understood employees in professions joining unions and threatening to strike. I'm a finance professional and if I don't think I'm getting paid a fair amount or I'm dissatisfied with working conditions, I find employment at another company. Professionals should act like professionals and not air their grievances to the general public.

]

Who said anything about a strike? You are a finance professional and don't know what picketing vs a strike is? scary.

baqnav wrote:
Anyone see any other carriers pilots standing in solidarity with Delta sisters and brothers?

a lot were. AA, UA, WN, plenty of RJ airlines.....

klm617 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

I agree great job Delta pilots. Ed Bastian and his band of merry men think they can bully anyone just so they can get their way. Thank You Delta pilots for your many safe flights and for showing this money making machine they need to show some integrity to those who made this airline great. From what I can see Delta shows no loyalty to anyone except Atlanta and it's investors.

Dude you need to get some help.
This is getting as bad as the kid who is obsessed with the 767-400. Trolling on every thread.

Why because I'm not a Delta fanboy that embraces their business practices.[/quote]
no because you don't ever have the smallest clue what you are talking about.

CaribClipper · Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:05 pm

Do Delta pilots get to participate in the Profit Sharing Plan at the same rate as other employees? If so, are the pilot's asks taking into account the profit sharing plan payout's from the last couple of years? This is extra discretional cash compensation that Delta doesn't have to pay out.

"For Delta's employees, individuals will receive the equivalent of 21% of their annual compensation."

According to AirwaysNews, "Delta's profit-sharing plan is structured to so that employees are returned roughly 10% of profits, but can escalate to 20% if the company earns more than $2.5 billion a year."

I don't know exactly how it is structured by employee type, tenure, etc but Delta paid out $1.5B in February for the 2015 fiscal year (the most by any company ever).

News articles indicating MSP employees got on average a $16K check and Seattle employees a $18K check. (Though I'm not sure if that just taking what was allotted divided by the number of employees or based on the actual checks sent out).

Separately, for 2015 Delta said employees earned almost $95 million in monthly bonuses, an average of nearly $1,200 per employee. In addition the company match to its 401(k) retirement savings plan was increased. Again do pilots get to participate in this?

deltal1011man · Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:16 am

CaribClipper wrote:
Do Delta pilots get to participate in the Profit Sharing Plan at the same rate as other employees? If so, are the pilot's asks taking into account the profit sharing plan payout's from the last couple of years? This is extra discretional cash compensation that Delta doesn't have to pay out.

Yes the pilots have contractual profit sharing but it isn't the same plan as non-union employees.

Also, DL does have to pay its pilots profit sharing as it is in the contract. Profit-sharing happened because of the pilots pension going to PBCG in bankruptcy and it was something DL management also gave to other employees. It isn't a "free gift" like AA is doing with its employees.

FWIW in the last TA profit-sharing was going to be cut, along with many other concessions the company wanted the pilots to take.

N717TW · Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:28 am

smokeybandit wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
I know. Terrible.

what they should do is sit by and wait 5 or 6 years to get a contract.

Then get all their back pay retroactively when the new contract is signed. So terrible.

Retroactive pay raises aren't guaranteed nor are they the norm. Often times when parties go for years without raises, the new contract will pick up and add on a salary that has stayed flat (and therefore gone down in real terms). A more common, but not universal nor necessarily majority situation, is for a large (say 5%+) raise in the first year of the contact to make up for the year(s) without a raise. But the longer a group goes without a raise the less likely the workers will be made whole from an inflation perspective.

NWAESC · Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:45 am

deltal1011man wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
PS, can't wait for the usual suspects to show up and tell you how terrible you and the fellow pilots are.

They always do. You can set your watch to it.

bobnwa · Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:46 pm

I will leave it up to the Delta pilots to inform the Anet members how poorly paid they are. We should realize that they are the sky gods, but I am sure they will point that out

loggat · Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:47 pm

northwestEWR wrote:
Negotiations are slow because the pilot's demands have been ridiculous.

They're currently the #2 (IIRC) best paid in the industry only following UA (I think)'s new contract.
They just got a 20 something percent raise.
They already have extremely pilot-friendly work rules and exceedingly generous 401k/retirement/sick/etc/etc/etc. WAY beyond what anyone else gets at Delta. It's not even close.

Now they're asking for:
40% raise this year
Another 17% over the next 3
Relaxing already pilot-friendly work rules

The entitlement attitude of these guys is incredible. How much is enough? They just got 20% raises....now they want another 67%? COME ON.

I don't know where you are getting your "facts" but they are completely incorrect.

There has been no 20% raise recently. Not since 2012 when the last contract was signed.
401k/retirement is to make up for the bankruptcy removed pensions.
The 40% was actually the full 3 yr ask.
67% is a made up number.

Nice try though.

Dallas · Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:34 pm

deltal1011man wrote:

Speak for yourself and educate yourself on what the pilots want, what the company wants and what the company asked for in the last TA. (and i don't mean DL corp com)

Ah my favorite on these forums. The typical "don't speak or have an opinion unless you know 100% about the TA or facts" even though you do nothing to help educate others on what the facts are. If what was stated was untrue, how about you correct us and give us your version of the facts instead of being vague about it? We might not be pilots, but we're educated and not dumb as rocks.

Flighty · Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:48 pm

DL pilots picketing could only be a sign of their ignorance.

They should be making every effort to be as quiet as possible. They have a really good deal going. They should try to make it last as long as possible, before the next industry collapse, bankruptcy and mass layoff.

Delta pilots make between $175-300+k per year. That is as much as a general surgeon. Gentlemen and ladies: you are topped out. Congratulations. Now please do not debase yourself by picketing.

sdh9 · Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:35 pm

northwestEWR wrote:
They've been picketing over the last couple of weeks. I believe the last one was at the shareholder's meeting in NYC.

Negotiations are slow because the pilot's demands have been ridiculous.

They're currently the #2 (IIRC) best paid in the industry only following UA (I think)'s new contract.

Incorrect. While not an apples to apples comparison because of different pay banding, UA leads and AA is second. DL has generous profit sharing but that is not guaranteed income, and the company has adjusted the profit sharing payout already for non-contract employees.

They just got a 20 something percent raise.

When? I must have missed this.

They already have extremely pilot-friendly work rules and exceedingly generous 401k/retirement/sick/etc/etc/etc. WAY beyond what anyone else gets at Delta. It's not even close.

So it's about envy then? A new hire pilot at Delta Air Lines is not an entry-level job. By the time these pilots get to this point they have already spent close to a decade in the military or regional airlines.

Pilots also cannot fly with a head cold, but an office worker can work with one. Pilots have also given up their pensions in exchange for the "generous" retirement plans that they have (which don't come close to matching what they gave up).

Now they're asking for:
40% raise this year
Another 17% over the next 3
Relaxing already pilot-friendly work rules

Source please. The Delta MEC opener is easily googled and has none of these "facts" of yours.

MSPNWA · Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:08 pm

northwestEWR wrote:
They really aren't going to get any sympathy from the general public and definitely not from all the other employees. Millions are struggling to make ends meet, working 2 jobs, etc etc etc.... these guys are all paid very well already and certainly upper middle class or upper class. There aren't very many Delta pilots making less than 100K/year. 98% of the country would be beyond thankful to make that kind of money.

Negotiations are slow because the pilot's demands have been ridiculous.

Negotiations are slow because the pilot group finally has a backbone and won't simply take whatever management tells them to take. Delta has never had to deal with this much discontent in their pilot ranks. Their easy ride is ending. Pilots are becoming better informed, and the culture is changing.

I know one DL pilot that is just now making about 100K. It took him 14 years of education and experience to get there, and he started at a good time. High wages are needed to attract people to a long, challenging, and risky career.

Flighty wrote:
DL pilots picketing could only be a sign of their ignorance.

They should be making every effort to be as quiet as possible. They have a really good deal going. They should try to make it last as long as possible, before the next industry collapse, bankruptcy and mass layoff.

Delta pilots make between $175-300+k per year. That is as much as a general surgeon. Gentlemen and ladies: you are topped out. Congratulations. Now please do not debase yourself by picketing.

The general surgeon will make hit the 300K range far, far sooner than a pilot. And the lifestyle can't be compared.

What you want to the pilots to do is exactly what DL management wants them to do. And it's not because it's better for the pilots. It's because it's better for them. Good thing the pilots aren't listening.

Flighty · Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:28 pm

Pilots are becoming better informed... lol.. this cycle has been going on for 50 years.

Pilots are doing great. Their natural wage absent a union isn't all that high. DL pilots are riding a huge gravy train and riding it well. I salute them. But all these grievances? I've heard them. I've had ALPA clawing at my own pitiful wages before as a little beancounter. It's not something I am going to forget. Do I feel like they are owed something, by the public or whatever, no. It is just the noise that unions make. Just enjoy your huge profit sharing checks and be happy. Or, go ahead, sink the airline again -- can't hurt me now.

klm617 · Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:44 pm

Dallas wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:

Speak for yourself and educate yourself on what the pilots want, what the company wants and what the company asked for in the last TA. (and i don't mean DL corp com)

Ah my favorite on these forums. The typical "don't speak or have an opinion unless you know 100% about the TA or facts" even though you do nothing to help educate others on what the facts are. If what was stated was untrue, how about you correct us and give us your version of the facts instead of being vague about it? We might not be pilots, but we're educated and not dumb as rocks.

Great post to some people if it's good for Delta the end justifies the means no matter who gets trampled in the process the customer or employee.

deltal1011man · Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:49 pm

Dallas wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:

Speak for yourself and educate yourself on what the pilots want, what the company wants and what the company asked for in the last TA. (and i don't mean DL corp com)

Ah my favorite on these forums. The typical "don't speak or have an opinion unless you know 100% about the TA or facts" even though you do nothing to help educate others on what the facts are. If what was stated was untrue, how about you correct us and give us your version of the facts instead of being vague about it? We might not be pilots, but we're educated and not dumb as rocks.

The issues with the last TA have been discussed here and other places plenty. Its not hard to figure out the problems.

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