Since this has been such a successful thread, we're going to transition this to our continuous thread system implemented last year.

Those of you who were around on the old site will remember that threads were locked based on post count. The new site doesn't require those limitations, but most people agree that we don't want threads that run into forever. So, we settled on fixed schedules for our most popular threads. Post count merely determines if they will be cycled monthly, quarterly, or annually.

Based on this, I've updated the title indicating that this thread has an expiration in two months time, at which point, so go to the San Diego 2018 Thread.

Hopefully this makes sense to everyone, and it's a system we've implemented on just about every other popular regional thread. Thanks to SANFan for keeping this thread going!

✈️ atcsundevil

Hi everybody, regarding our two special Visitors from the other night. Something I thought I'd never see in SAN, let alone, in 2017! But on the 28th of October, 2017; we had three 747-400s at our little airport! It was the first night for BAs scheduled changed from a 77W, to a 744. And we had two Visitors, both inbound from London Stansted and filled with Horses for the Breeders Cup in Del Mar! A6-GGP which was a unmarked White/Blue livery Freighter has little tracking capabilities, but it left yesterday back to Louisville with the Callsign 'DUB8' aka Dubai Airwing, the second visitor was LX-WCV, a Cargolux 747-400F that I was able to capture some of the inbound and parking of the aircraft to offload the 'stable.' LX-WCV left 2 hours later bound for LAX.

Here is inbound LX-WCV doing the Lindy Hop to offload the horses on the north ramp: https://youtu.be/tQftSghEa2k

A6-GGP with LX-WCV behind her that just arrived 5 minutes before. Samsung Galaxy S8 phone:

Another myth busted! Three 744s can be parked at SAN at the same time!

Effective November 1st, SAN will have a Hard Closure in effect from Midnight to 5AM for complete resurfacing of the runway. Last complete resurface was year 2000, and it is over-due. There will be no exceptions if the flights are ETA minutes past midnight, they will have to divert and be bused down. Our first victim was our beloved queen--British Airways. A 5.5 hour mechanical led the plane arriving at around 1115pm local time, thus forcing the plane to be overnighted at the north ramp. It is scheduled to depart 1PM local time, posting a 16.5H delay. Aircraft is G-CIVH. Another thing to note, is BA is sending a premium-heavy 747 in here, which surprises me. Is that's all that's left in BAs 744 fleet are premium heavy 744s?

redrooster3 wrote:

Effective November 1st, SAN will have a Hard Closure in effect from Midnight to 5AM for complete resurfacing of the runway. Last complete resurface was year 2000, and it is over-due. There will be no exceptions if the flights are ETA minutes past midnight, they will have to divert and be bused down. Our first victim was our beloved queen--British Airways. A 5.5 hour mechanical led the plane arriving at around 1115pm local time, thus forcing the plane to be overnighted at the north ramp. It is scheduled to depart 1PM local time, posting a 16.5H delay. Aircraft is G-CIVH. Another thing to note, is BA is sending a premium-heavy 747 in here, which surprises me. Is that's all that's left in BAs 744 fleet are premium heavy 744s?

Would explain why I've been sleeping better (I live in Banker's Hill, directly under the flight path)!

-IR

http://www.latimes.com/sports/more/la-sp-breeders-cup-20171105-story.html

The Breeder's Cup organizers sound pretty pleased with the event in Del Mar so we could see all these 747 back (though not until 2021!) at our little postage stamp. The article says that 70 percent of attendees were from out of town. I wonder how many international visitors we had.

SANFan wrote:

757SanCam wrote:

Sunday morning, UA CEO Oscar Munoz was on my flight from IAH to SAN. I thanked him for getting UA on the right track and the continued improved service after he was appointed CEO. I don't know the reason for his visit, but hopefully, more service here. I see lots of threads about other carriers here but very little about UA. As a MP member, I'd like to see some growth with UA here. I fly weekly in the fall and occasionally other times of the year and the morning bank to hubs seem to be running at capacity or near capacity. Maybe some point to point too if there is data to support and resources to support this.

From what I understand, UA does a very good business here and SAN is one of their largest non-hub stations (by seats offered as well as profits I believe.) But pretty much all we have ever been is a large, successful spoke for the carrier with absolutely nothing offered in p-2-p flying -- except of course for the occasional failure of another SAN-HNL attempt... If only they (or DL for that matter) would make a serious attempt at the route, they might be surprised! Like I think WN is about to do...

Next year will (finally) see a great addition to SAN's Star Alliance portfolio in the arrival of Lufthansa! I can't think of any service changes for UA that their arrival would indicate -- even Hawaii is already well connected to FRA via LA and SFO. Really about the only thing I could think might happen at Lindbergh on UA would be some larger aircraft on the hub routes? Or else added frequency? PS service to the east coast? Maybe Munoz is bringing his executive tape measure to see how big an airplane UA could regularly fly to SAN? Or if he can wangle another gate or 2 out of the SDIA real estate department (since things will really be changing next year in T2W due to the new FIS facilities?

He's probably out here on vacation.

I'd love to think of UA adding some p-2-p flying here, be it domestic or, gulp, international. CO used to fly SAN-MEX once upon a time. Shuttle by UA used to fly to OAK and SMF from here. Not for connections, just O&D and we know there's plenty of that available. I know, chances of any of this are about the same as the Padres winning a World Series...

But let's remember that DL is apparently thinking about more int'l p-2-p flying from non-hubs (e.g., IND-CDG) so who knows what UA might be considering?

bb

Looking at the number of departures for tomorrow (Tuesday, Nov14) it would appear SAN is likely in the top 10 (possibly top 5) non-hub domestic stations by # of daily flights.

That said, I think there a few factors that limit UA's growth in SAN. 1st being its proximity to LAX and to a lesser extent SFO. 2nd would be UA's shortage of narrowbody aircraft that limits their ability to do P2P. 3rd being the established competition. There seem to be relatively few domestic destinations not already served nonstop by any of the carriers that fly into SAN. For those that are not served nonstop, SANs proximity to a number of hubs means there are a number of convenient 1 stop connections available.

As for PS/Coast service, I would argue that the SAN customer base does not command the same premium that a BOS/NYC-SFO/LAX does. This could change down the road as UA's "Coast" brand is still in its infancy. If UA decides to install lie-flats on the upcoming 73X deliveries we may see them in SAN.

Personally, I've always felt SAN would be the perfect candidate for the HD 777-200A aircraft during select times of the year. There are a lot of conferences and conventions held in SAN on top of being a top tourist destination depending on the season.

77H

Speaking of BA’s 744’s, their dispatch reliability must be bad. My wife’s plane was 3 hours late on November 4 and flightaware indicates several flights similarly delayed. I don’t seem to recall their 777W being delayed like this.

But yes the 744’s are premium heavy. And packed to the gills!

Hey SANFan, NK just added DTW-SAN like we predicted.

flymco753 wrote:

Hey SANFan, NK just added DTW-SAN like we predicted.

I'm happy to see the announcement for sure, fly'. I'm extra pleased that all flights are daytime, but a bit disappointed that the route is indicated as 'seasonal', along with the fact that the service is not actually daily until June, despite the pr announcing the route as daily from the get-go on 4/23/18.

The 'seasonal' thing will hopefully get sorted out before next fall and the route will continue all year. It's really quite ridiculous to lump SAN-DTW in with the new SEA and PDX flights that are (understandably) seasonal.

Despite those minor issues, it is great to finally see much-needed competition for DL on SAN-DTW. AAG seems to be missing out on a number of routes that would be perfect for them but are being gobbled up by WN, F9, NK, etc.

So even though NK was not my first choice for the route, I'm very glad to see them going for it!

bb

SANFan wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Hey SANFan, NK just added DTW-SAN like we predicted.

I'm happy to see the announcement for sure, fly'. I'm extra pleased that all flights are daytime, but a bit disappointed that the route is indicated as 'seasonal', along with the fact that the service is not actually daily until June, despite the pr announcing the route as daily from the get-go on 4/23/18.

The 'seasonal' thing will hopefully get sorted out before next fall and the route will continue all year. It's really quite ridiculous to lump SAN-DTW in with the new SEA and PDX flights that are (understandably) seasonal.

Despite those minor issues, it is great to finally see much-needed competition for DL on SAN-DTW. AAG seems to be missing out on a number of routes that would be perfect for them but are being gobbled up by WN, F9, NK, etc.

So even though NK was not my first choice for the route, I'm very glad to see them going for it!

bb

I feel like it’ll be an A321 before it even starts, I truly believe it’ll be a hit. I also feel like it’ll go year round too, plenty of room yearly for the route, nonetheless I’m excited and look forward to the inaugural!

I'm not sure if anyone has heard the news, Hawaiian will be starting up SAN-OGG with their brand new A321neo
starting May-1 next year. I saw the announcement last night, but can't remember what website. This will be in
addition to the SAN-HNL flight, (I'm hoping they'll keep the A330).

http://www.10news.com/news/hawaiian-air ... -fare-sale

Here it is!

SANMAN66 wrote:

I'm not sure if anyone has heard the news, Hawaiian will be starting up SAN-OGG with their brand new A321neo starting May-1 next year. I saw the announcement last night, but can't remember what website. This will be in addition to the SAN-HNL flight, (I'm hoping they'll keep the A330).

Hey SANMAN', that IS news (to me anyway!) Thanx for sharing it. The HA 321 is a beautiful aircraft wearing an amazing livery! I didn't see the news on A.net anywhere. I think HA adding SAN-OGG was more of a case of "when" than "if" but nevertheless, well, it's about time!

I don't know if others are aware but next summer, beginning on May 20, AS will be flying daily to all 4 islands in HI -- that is the first time Kona-service will be flown daily since the route was started a couple of years ago. My thinking was that AS might have been acting pre-emptively due to expected competition to the Islands by other cx. Seems like maybe they were right!

WN is of course waiting in the wings to become a Hawaiian carrier, perhaps as early as next year. And it seems pretty sure that SAN will be one of the gateways WN will be using for their new Island service. So hold tight folks, it looks like we are going to be seeing a great increase in capacity to Hawaii soon (and maybe lower fares?!)

Back to the topic of the post, it is very nice to see growth from Hawaiian in SAN and hopefully there will be more islands to come from Pualani!

bb

Could this new flight by Hawaiian finally be a response to AS with all their Hawaii flights?
I always laugh because Alaska has more flights to Hawaii than Hawaiian! But anyways,
maybe an A321 is the right sized aircraft to fly SAN-OGG. Remember when HA discontinued
SAN-OGG, they had a 763 on the route.

Could this new flight by Hawaiian finally be a response to AS with all their Hawaii flights?
I always laugh because Alaska has more flights to Hawaii than Hawaiian! But anyways,
maybe an A321 is the right sized aircraft to fly SAN-OGG. Remember when HA discontinued
SAN-OGG, they had a 763 on the route. If WN starts up SAN to Hawaii, that would definitely be
a response to AS, WN has already responded with the Mexico flights.

Moderator please delete one my posts I double posted.

IDK if it means anything, but I noticed a job posting for a French-fluent customer service agents (now gone, maybe it's been filled?) at SAN, I think for ATS. Possible precursor to AF or Joon?

san747 wrote:

I think for ATS. Possible precursor to AF or Joon?

What is ATS? It sure would be great if this was a precursor to AF or JOON, maybe when
the new FIS facilities are completed we would hear more int'l announcements? Do AF
have plans for JOON to go longhaul?

SANMAN66 wrote:

san747 wrote:

I think for ATS. Possible precursor to AF or Joon?

What is ATS? It sure would be great if this was a precursor to AF or JOON, maybe when
the new FIS facilities are completed we would hear more int'l announcements? Do AF
have plans for JOON to go longhaul?

Yes, they do. They'll get some A343s to operate in the next year or so and A359s later.

SANMAN66 wrote:

san747 wrote:

I think for ATS. Possible precursor to AF or Joon?

What is ATS? It sure would be great if this was a precursor to AF or JOON, maybe when
the new FIS facilities are completed we would hear more int'l announcements? Do AF
have plans for JOON to go longhaul?

ATS (Airport Terminal Service) they provide Ramp and Customer Service as a contract company. They work on Hawaiian (Ramp Only), Japan Airlines, Westjet, Air Canada Jazz & Rouge.

From what's been posted in the last couple of posts, maybe AC has enough French-Canadians these days flying to SAN that they requested ATS hire a French-fluent agent? (Or they've had one who left, and they need a replacement.) Just a guess.

I would think that if AF (in some iteration) were thinking about serving SAN some time in the future -- and I would expect it would not be in 2018 -- they would not need French-proficient agents now. (And that assumes AF would not bring in their own people, all of whom would speak French.

But who knows?

bb

Just read the thread about Hainan expansion in the US in 2018. SAN is mention frequently as a likely candidate for a direct flight to either Shanghai or Beijing; what do you guys think?

I read that thread,and it really sounds intriguing. Especially when Hainan wants to
use AS as a codeshare partner. We can cross out SJC, since Hainan already serves
SJC. I'm guessing SAN, because it's an AS focus city, and PDX, because it's an AS hub.

gollumSD wrote:

Just read the thread about Hainan expansion in the US in 2018. SAN is mention frequently as a likely candidate for a direct flight to either Shanghai or Beijing; what do you guys think?

Thanks for mentioning this subject here, gollum'! I had no particular interest in reading the Hainana-thread you referenced but I certainly will now. That is exciting to think about. (BTW, isn't Hainan rumored here-and-there to be starting TIJ maybe in 2018? Or is that someone else?)

Speaking of other threads, I don't see that anyone has yet referenced here the Philippine-thread that is now seeing MNL-SAN being mentioned. (IAH is not any more, but SEA, ORD, MIA and SAN are cities now appearing in discussions on A.net.) And I did see a couple of familiar names (of regulars here on the SAN-thread) in the Philippine-thread...

PR is ordering new a/c and it appears that they may be put into service in late 2018, so... Nothing real positive but at least SAN is again coming up, including in comments by Bautista. It would be helpful if we keep an eye on DOT route applications; that would be a good way to find some real news about these and other new intercontinental routes!

I don't know if either of these, or other new carrier-routes, could really happen as early as 2018 but once the FIS facilities are finished in June 2018, who knows how fast things could happen? I will repeat a thought of mine from earlier this year: there might be several foreign flags out there just waiting to see the completion of that major project at SAN before announcing their intentions to start flying in and out of Lindbergh Field.

bb

I don't think HU plan for TIJ has moved forward. There doesn't seem to have been any news after the first mention of it. As for HU, a concern I raised in the HU thread was HU's ability to get the frequencies they need to fly SAN-PEK . They could fly to non-Zone 1 airports like Changsha, Hangzhou, Shenzhen without needing to rejigger their schedules around. The Authority's projection is for additional Asia service to not start until 2025 but if HU is feeling up to it with their AS codeshare partnership who knows how soon they'd like to move forward.

AM's plans to start TIJ-PEK was covered in the CBX thread. They had originally planned to start that this year but that's been pushed back with no definite date. I'd assume that any service out of TIJ to China would have some implications for SAN-China service, making SAN-China less likely. I'm sure the Authority is looking to recapture the (~117 PDEW) China traffic currently traveling up to LAX. I wonder how much an effect AM's TIJ-PVG flight has had on the prospects of SAN-China. The light is a bit inconvenient at the moment since only the outbound flight is non-stop.

PR is a frustrating case since they've talked about SAN on and off for a few years now. I think if PR firms up options for additional A350s MNL-SAN becomes more likely. As it is, it looks like the 6 they current have on order will be busy on MNL-JFK, MNL-LHR, and a possible resumption of CEB-LAX.

There's also a (very casual) discussion of AF/Joon coming our way. No official rumors but Joon will be getting the modal SAN-long-haul type (A343s) next year. AF, course, has had them but perhaps Joon's cost structure would work better for getting into SAN. The Authority's growth projects place a third European hub carrier to start service in 2020. Skyteam needs some representation here.

For now, it's all wait and see with these long-hauls. I haven't seen any updates about the FIS but I hope that's all on schedule to open in time for Summer 2018.

Thanks for all the great updates on int'l prospects for SAN Amador'. I hope you will be willing and able to keep us here on the SAN thread updated about these topics.

Although none of the possibilities is close to 'a sure thing', I find it encouraging that there are so many 'maybes'. And I think we all know that Hampton and his gang are working all these angles -- and others -- as hard as anyone in the industry. We are privileged to have one of the greats on the job of getting SAN more carriers and flights! I remember seeing him pleading his case before the SDCRAA earlier this year to get the FIS facilities project going (as quickly as possible) to handle the increased int'l traffic he was sure was coming to San Diego! Good stuff.

From what I had seen, I agree that the expectation is another (besides BA and LH) Euro legacy carrier with a major hub was expected to come to SAN in the next couple of years; KL and/or AF seemed the two most likely. (Given events of the last year or so, I can't help wonder if DL could replace KLM in the discussions.)

And finally, let's not forget about Latin America which, AFAIK, remains a major destination goal of SDIA. I hear no rumors about this area but I'm sure it remains a top priority.

bb

I love this thread!

The thought of a non-stop to Shanghai sounds intriguing, it's a city on my list to see. My question is whether the route can compete on airfare. This morning, I found airfare for as low as $451/rt (SAN-YVR-PVG) on Air Canada's 787-9. I imagine HU will charge a premium for a non-stop flight, but how much can it realistically charge when other airlines are offering such cheap fares?

I am also excited by talk of a "French Connection." I hope this comes about!

amadorE175 wrote:

I don't think HU plan for TIJ has moved forward. There doesn't seem to have been any news after the first mention of it.

I haven't heard any more news about it either. I suspect that there is next to no pax flying the
TIJ-PVG sector. HU probably found it hardly worth it,and AM backed off the TIJ-Beijing flights,
which is the reason why AM made the eastbound nonstop to MEX. AM may try
MEX-MTY-Beijing like they did with their ICN flights if the pax numbers are better down
there instead. Everyone who keeps thinking that if only TIJ had int'l flights, San Diegans
will flock down to TIJ to use them via. CBX (didn't happen). Those same people fail to
add in that San Diegans, regardless if SAN gets flights to China or not will continue to
go up to LAX and take advantage of the big selection of flights to China, and the alliance hubs
at LAX.

SANFan wrote:

And finally, let's not forget about Latin America which, AFAIK, remains a major destination goal of SDIA. I hear no rumors about this area but I'm sure it remains a top priority.

bb

The Authority is currently looking for someone to help with route service development with Spanish language abilities as a preferred skill so I think you're right about that.

JAAlbert wrote:

I am also excited by talk of a "French Connection." I hope this comes about!

I am intrigued about that new low cost French upstart "Frenchblue" or "French",their only U.S. destination
being SFO so far. I'm wondering what their next U.S. destinations are?

let's not forget about Latin America which, AFAIK, remains a major destination goal of SDIA. I hear no rumors about this area but I'm sure it remains a top priority.

My bet is on Copa as the Latin American carrier. Bob, I know you mentioned that you were following the
Philippine thread, I'm glad talk of SAN has come up again. I'll check out the Philippine thread. I thought all
talk about serving SAN was dead, since JAL started up SAN-NRT and PAL seemed to have lost all interest
in serving SAN.

amadorE175 wrote:

PR is a frustrating case since they've talked about SAN on and off for a few years now. I think if PR firms up options for additional A350s MNL-SAN becomes more likely. As it is, it looks like the 6 they current have on order will be busy on MNL-JFK, MNL-LHR, and a possible resumption of CEB-LAX.

There's still MNL-YYZ to come in June 2018 which would occupy a pair. Doubtful PR would exercise its A359 options this early as they have just gone through a very difficult year.

SANMAN66 wrote:

Bob, I know you mentioned that you were following the Philippine thread, I'm glad talk of SAN has come up again. I'll check out the Philippine thread.

I'm still of the opinion that MNL-SAN could only come about if PR had a cheaper platform to do that mission which would be competitive with the $451/rt one-stop to PVG above or other East Asian cities.....



http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=MNL-SAN-YVR- ... 0x360&PM=*

An A338 might be able (if it comes) to do MNL-YVR both ways...but it would take at least a lower weight variant of the A359 to do the TPAC crossing to SAN nonstop, particularly (setting aside terrain/runway issues) on the westbound leg.

SANMAN66 wrote:

I thought all talk about serving SAN was dead, since JAL started up SAN-NRT and PAL seemed to have lost all interest in serving SAN.

Much as I would like to see a MNL-SAN-MNL service, there's just no escaping the facts that it's going to be a very expensive route for PR to operate and LAX is just a couple of hours away (on a good day) up on the I-5 or I-405. Fares would need to be much higher and load factors have to be ~85%+ consistently for the venture to be profitable. And then there's this "regulatory issues" which delayed PR's MNL-JFK nonstop that could also dampen PR's interest in SAN.

Devilfish wrote:

LAX is just a couple of hours away (on a good day) up on the I-5 or I-405. Fares would need to be much higher and load factors have to be ~85%+ consistently for the venture to be profitable.

As much as I wanted to see PAL serving SAN, but from what I hear, JAL is taking care of the Manila-bound
pax from SAN, I heard they are connecting through NRT. Apparently connections at NRT are pretty good.The other
choice being that pax can trek up to LAX and fly nonstop on PAL.

Even though it's a real soft 'maybe', it's still nice to see/hear that PR has at least been thinking/wondering about MNL-SAN in some form. I appreciate reading this discussion with some folks quite familiar with the issues concerning the potential route. (And it's a pleasure to have the Devil' himself make a rare appearance on this thread: welcome and please drop by any time! I know that I'd love to hear any updates that show up re: SAN!)

BTW, can anyone out there provide us with any updates on not only the FIS project (and its hopeful 6-month-away completion!) but also the Great 2018 Airline Shuffle that's expected at SAN? I don't know if anyone else has noticed virtually or at the airport itself, but AAG's Virgin unit has moved (recently?) back to T2E (their past home.) I've tried to find out from some folks I know (or at least used to know) with AS if the carrier IS indeed going to relocate to T2E (as rumors suggested months ago), with no luck.

To me, this fact that VX has now moved to T2E (next to AA I think) could be a very big clue that AAG will be following soon as well. The stuff I heard was that when AAG vacated T1W, then B6 and others such as NK, G4, etc., would move to fill in the west rotunda, opening up space for tckt counters and ops in T2W where they currently reside. However, there's never been any airport confirmation of any of this AND I'm now wondering if SDIA might be planning instead to just turn all -- or some -- of T1W over to WN? WN has been using gate 11 (in T1W) now for a few months, part time, sharing it with AAG, as an overflow gate, mostly in the afternoon.

It seems to me that WN definitely needs more real estate, especially with all those big 738s and MAXs flying to Hawaii soon enough. IMO, it's not just gate space and jetways, that are too few, but terminal space for pax that is a large part of the problem. I just think that the holding rooms in T1E don't allow enough room for people to breath, and even move around a little. With more and more 738s showing up at SAN, there are just too many pax inside T1E! Can anyone out there who flies WN regularly remark on this?

In any case, 2018 will be a big and exciting year for SAN, but who knows just how big it could end up being? (BTW, we already have 9 new routes on the books for next year, including 1 new MAJOR carrier -- and we all know who that is! -- and 3 of those routes are new ones not currently being flown! Not a bad start considering it's still 2017...

bb

Virgin has indeed moved, Taking Gate 26 from AAL. Alaska will be moving to T2E as well, Pushing AA to its minimum allowed gates at this airport. Which will be 6. AA will move to gates 29-34. ASA will move and have 20, 21, 24, 26, 28.

redrooster3 wrote:

Virgin has indeed moved, Taking Gate 26 from AAL. Alaska will be moving to T2E as well, Pushing AA to its minimum allowed gates at this airport. Which will be 6. AA will move to gates 29-34. ASA will move and have 20, 21, 24, 26, 28.

Do you know when they're moving? Seems like having full use of 20 and 21 would be an issue until the FIS moves to T2W in S18.

amadorE175 wrote:

redrooster3 wrote:

Virgin has indeed moved, Taking Gate 26 from AAL. Alaska will be moving to T2E as well, Pushing AA to its minimum allowed gates at this airport. Which will be 6. AA will move to gates 29-34. ASA will move and have 20, 21, 24, 26, 28.

Do you know when they're moving? Seems like having full use of 20 and 21 would be an issue until the FIS moves to T2W in S18.

They wont move until the FIS expansion is complete when we will be able to accommodate T2E (Gates 20 and 21) being given to ASA

Speaking of expansion. HAL's A321neo is in town. Flew in and proceeded to Gate 51 for crew familiarization.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N20 ... /PHNL/KSAN

SANFan wrote:

BTW, can anyone out there provide us with any updates on not only the FIS project (and its hopeful 6-month-away completion!)
bb

I would love to see some pictures of the new FIS under constuction,and the progress on the new parking plaza. I saw in a
SAN newsletter a couple months ago that they are starting to install art in the parking plaza, one art piece was inspired by
the many palm-lined streets in town.

redrooster3 wrote:

[. HAL's A321neo is in town. Flew in and proceeded to Gate 51 for crew familiarization.

I'm hoping someone would get some pictures of the HAL A321, And I'm hoping the A321s don't replace the A330 to HNL.

SANMAN66 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

BTW, can anyone out there provide us with any updates on not only the FIS project (and its hopeful 6-month-away completion!)
bb

I would love to see some pictures of the new FIS under constuction,and the progress on the new parking plaza. I saw in a SAN newsletter a couple months ago that they are starting to install art in the parking plaza, one art piece was inspired by the many palm-lined streets in town.

I've been looking but am unable to find any recent, clear, detailed plans or depictions of exactly how the new FIS facilities are laid out. There are the original plans issued back in early 2017 but they weren't real clear, for example, as to what the arriving pax flow will be from exiting the airplane to when the pax leave FIS-space. I know there are 3 different levels (floors) involved and, I think, 2 baggage claim units, but I'm still not clear.

I assume the first phase of the project will be completed on time, in June 2018. I hope that is holding true. If so, it will be one amazing project, considering the time needed from concept approval to first day of operations! We mustn't forget that LH starts SAN-service in just 3 months, as does WK's 2018 campaign, but the new FIS won't open for another 3 months after that. It's probably gonna' be more major hair pulling time for the SDIA ops folks between March and June!

Again, my big thanx to redrooster3 for the help with understanding some of the airline relocation plans next year! I read that SDIA had budgeted a lot of money, associated with the FIS project, to the airline-shuffle that is now in its early stages (VX moving to T2E this month.)

bb

SANFan wrote:

I assume the first phase of the project will be completed on time, in June 2018. I hope that is holding true.
bb

The SAN newsletter I saw was back in Oct/Nov. didn't say that either project (parking plaza/FIS facilities) were
delayed in any way, so I'm assuming that everything is still on schedule. I haven't been able to get down to the
airport and see it for myself.

Didn't see anything above about the rumoured expansion of international services at Tij which will mean that cbx will get busier & become a 2nd airport for san diego. Would suit long haul lcc's. With slight rearrangement of gates at tij would make it very easy to fly out of cbx. No need to enter mexico. Or pay any u.s taxes/charges except to cross the bridge

USAOZ wrote:

Didn't see anything above about the rumoured expansion of international services at Tij which will mean that cbx will get busier & become a 2nd airport for san diego. Would suit long haul lcc's. With slight rearrangement of gates at tij would make it very easy to fly out of cbx. No need to enter mexico. Or pay any u.s taxes/charges except to cross the bridge

It is necessary to clear Mexican passport control when crossing the CBX from San Diego, so there is a little bit of extra effort involved when flying out of Tijuana. But in my experience, it’s not so bad – it took me less than 10 minutes to get through both times I’ve done it.

USAOZ wrote:

Didn't see anything above about the rumoured expansion of international services at Tij which will mean that cbx will get busier & become a 2nd airport for san diego. Would suit long haul lcc's. With slight rearrangement of gates at tij would make it very easy to fly out of cbx. No need to enter mexico. Or pay any u.s taxes/charges except to cross the bridge

If you scrolled up you would have seen there are posts regarding the proposed Hainan service. As explained in the forum that you created, it's not feasible to institute international service in the manner that you describe. TIJ is an airport in Mexico with a convenient toll-bridge land crossing from the U.S. to service the markets of U.S. travelers to connect to the Mexican domestic air market and for Mexican travelers wanting to visit San Diego (and Southern California). You must enter Mexico to use the facilities as the airport is located wholly within Mexico. Which means you would pay Mexican departure taxes for international flights and any applicable domestic flight fees.

It is not a bi-national airport, nor, will it become one due to various political, bureaucratic and security factors ever become one. Tijuana's airport needs some improvements; it has smaller waiting areas, security facilities and check-in areas as well as limited lounge and retail space.

International service to Tijuana has been intermittent for years. During the 70s and 80s some small local commuter airlines serviced TIJ from SAN and LAX. Also Aeromexico, Aero California and Mexicana used it as a intermittent stop to LAX off and on until they had longer range jets and eliminated the stops. It wasn't until 2006 that an intercontinental route was established and that was more on a technical basis, MEX-TIJ-NRT, and eventually MEX-TIJ-PVG. But because of improving aircraft technology, the stops have widely been abandoned on the eastbound flights. MEX-NRT is nonstop; ICN routes are flown via MTY on the westbound journey and PVG via TIJ.

It will be interesting how long Volaris keeps its TIJ-GUA, MGA, SAL flights. If Volaris can manage to pull some travelers who might use one stops on SAN to Central America; then you might see a few other flights to say SJO, PTY, TGU. Although I'm more apt to believe that SJO and PTY flights will come to SAN first.

SANAV8R wrote:

TIJ is an airport in Mexico with a convenient toll-bridge land crossing from the U.S. to service the markets of U.S. travelers to connect to the Mexican domestic air market and for Mexican travelers wanting to visit San Diego (and Southern California). You must enter Mexico to use the facilities as the airport is located wholly within Mexico. Which means you would pay Mexican departure taxes for international flights and any applicable domestic flight fees.

It is not a bi-national airport, nor, will it become one due to various political, bureaucratic and security factors ever become one. Tijuana's airport needs some improvements; it has smaller waiting areas, security facilities and check-in areas as well as limited lounge and retail space.

International service to Tijuana has been intermittent for years. During the 70s and 80s some small local commuter airlines serviced TIJ from SAN and LAX. Also Aeromexico, Aero California and Mexicana used it as a intermittent stop to LAX off and on until they had longer range jets and eliminated the stops. It wasn't until 2006 that an intercontinental route was established and that was more on a technical basis, MEX-TIJ-NRT, and eventually MEX-TIJ-PVG. But because of improving aircraft technology, the stops have widely been abandoned on the eastbound flights. MEX-NRT is nonstop; ICN routes are flown via MTY on the westbound journey and PVG via TIJ.

It will be interesting how long Volaris keeps its TIJ-GUA, MGA, SAL flights. If Volaris can manage to pull some travelers who might use one stops on SAN to Central America; then you might see a few other flights to say SJO, PTY, TGU. Although I'm more apt to believe that SJO and PTY flights will come to SAN first.

Very nice summary of the TIJ-situation, 'AV8R. I agree with you 100% (and have tried to post similar feelings earlier or on other threads but not nearly as clearly or thoroughly as you.)

I hope you're right in your last sentence, suggesting that SAN-Central America will start before TUIJ-Central America; perhaps both will come to the region eventually but I do believe there's enough of a market north of the border -- although admittedly not huge -- to support perhaps a couple of flights per week to either SJO or PTY.

And I continue to feel that Hampton's continued efforts to secure such service on behalf of the SDCRAA and SDIA means there IS a market for it! He doesn't tend to spend time barking up the wrong tree!

bb

SANMAN66 wrote:

As much as I wanted to see PAL serving SAN, but from what I hear, JAL is taking care of the Manila-bound
pax from SAN, I heard they are connecting through NRT.

SANFan wrote:

Even though it's a real soft 'maybe', it's still nice to see/hear that PR has at least been thinking/wondering about MNL-SAN in some form. I appreciate reading this discussion with some folks quite familiar with the issues concerning the potential route.

Nothing definite yet...but as if to dispel my misgivings, there are at least some noises that SAN may see PR metal via HNL..... .....

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.com/ ... nning.html

Quote:
"According to Bautista the rest of the A350 routes would also be in North America as they will soon be deployed to new destinations either in Seattle or San Diego around fourth quarter of next year aside from rotations to San Francisco.

Should Seattle be preferred in the listing, San Diego will be linked via Honolulu under the same amended bilateral with B777 service. Hawaii is currently being served with A330-300 as an end point."


Included in the report is a U.S. map showing ethnic Filipino concentration indicating potential market size..... .....


https://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/d ... un2013.jpg

Devilfish wrote:

there are at least some noises that SAN may see PR metal via HNL..

I'll take it!! A comment on the article, someone said that PR would most likely use the A330 instead of the 77W if they
started up MNL-HNL-SAN

Wow! Thank you Devil' for the update!

So it looks like a good possibility of PR coming to SAN late next year! Who'd a thunk it possible so quickly? Either SAN could see a nonstop (!) or at least a tag-on to the HNL service.

I know I've asked this before but could the A350 be used for nonstop MNL-SAN? I'm sure I've heard that SAN is not really compatible with the aircraft (takeoff performance I'm sure) but perhaps it would work for PR on this route. It appears that if SAN-service is via HNL, that would be op'd with the 350 as well but I assume that "short" a route wouldn't be a problem?

I also assume PR would not have local rights for HNL-SAN traffic?

I of course hope SAN gets the nonstop nod over SEA but who knows how that decision would be made? I can say that a new livery/carrier would be lost at SEA while it would be a real prominent, visible and welcomed addition at Lindbergh Field! Yes, I realize all that means squat to PR while the bottom line is $$$ -- which route would be most profitable?

Could PR consider a split flight between SEA and SAN to start -- maybe 4 days/week to SAN and the other 3 to SEA (or visa versa?) Or are they honestly looking at daily service in both markets? Just a thought.

Has anyone had a chance to see what the DOT shows for route app's? (Is SAN's old one still active? Has SEA been applied for?)

This could turn out to be a fantastic Christmas present for San Diego -- the city and the airport!

bb

SANFan wrote:

Who'd a thunk it possible so quickly
bb

We were waiting a looooooong time for PR, especially they applied for SAN-YVR-MNL in 2007
before the CAT-II downdgrade.I wonder if the pax arriving at SAN would already be pre-cleared
throught HNL,like the Canadian carriers? PR could park at any gate also.