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Mumrik
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Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:37 pm

Good evening,
With the current culture of "eurowhite" liveries the worlds airlines are turning towards today, I was thinking of why the bare metal liveries did not cought on in the past? American Airlines went for it as everyone knows, but other airlines did try it as well, did'nt they?
So why did the bare metal liveries not capture as well as the "eurowhite" ones of today?

And were there any other airlines who went for this kind of liveries? Operators of the 737-800 or the 757-200?
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Stitch
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:40 pm

Eastern had a predominately bare metal one, as I recall. US Air, as well, for a time.

As for why it did not become common, I imagine it was upkeep costs. The paint helps protect the airframe underneath and "hand-polishing" an airliner (even with power tools) is a very labor-intensive process so it's expensive and time-consuming.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:48 pm

British Airways had a few 737s in sort of bare metal. Their upper half (the white/grey part) was left unpainted as BA was evaluating any savings from this.

JAT also had their 737-300s delivered in similar fashion.

Bare metal is pretty (CX had their Silver Bullet freighters) but it does mean a lot of upkeep to keep it shiny.
 
UA444
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:56 pm

Unless they're brand new, bare metal has always looked awful and scratched up/faded, etc

Air Canada had an experimental bare metal for a time about 10 years ago.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:00 pm

AA, permanent until recently. Others at shorter terms (but not temporary/one-offs): CP Air, Eastern, USAir, AeroMexico, Western Airlines (not completed fleet-wide prior to DL merger). Temporaries primarily with used/leased AA machines included ATA, Braniff (the leased AA 747), Braniff 2 (ex-AirCal 737-200s via AA), Hawaiian, and various 2nd/3rd world users.
I'm sure there are others that will be reported here.

Edit: oh yes, the NW 747 freighter, CX freighters, Flying Tiger, More?
Last edited by Wingtips56 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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northstardc4m
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:01 pm

American, Eastern and USAir were the big 3 US airlines that did bare metal passenger, all 3 had the 757 in metal, only AA did the 738. In fact i know of no other airline that's done bare metal on a 737NG except as one offs/special schemes.

For others... Flying Tigers did it cargo. There was also Western who did part of their fleet, Piedmont who went to metal for the merger with USAir. Probably more I'm forgetting about...

There were more with partial metal schemes... CPAir springs to mind, Northwest (Orient) too.

Many other airlines trialed it including Air Canada (twice), British Airways, TWA, KLM, Lufthansa and SAS.

And of course many flying former AA, EA, US planes kept the bare metal... Global International, Hawaiian, Aeroflot, etc... and NASA...

There are just some planes that haven't been designed for bare metal... AA fought for years with Airbus to bare metal the A300s, US literally affected the maintenance schedule of it's ex-PSA 146s by stripping them and polishing them... after BAE told them not to do it (AA never did the ex-AirCal 146s in metal because of the same warnings)

Airbus just doesn't make planes for it, the 787 can't do it, it's not recommended on either the E or CRJ series, or most regional aircraft... lighter alloys/composites are in, alcad is out.
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durangomac
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:16 pm

SkyWest (OO) had bare metal EMB-120's from the beginning until they retired them a year ago.
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:17 pm

UA444 wrote:
Unless they're brand new, bare metal has always looked awful and scratched up/faded, etc

Air Canada had an experimental bare metal for a time about 10 years ago.


Yes I remember that horrendous 767-200 where they had trouble polishing the bare metal and you saw nothing but uneven polish, scuff and scratches. Don't believe they ever attempted bare metal again.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:26 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Unless they're brand new, bare metal has always looked awful and scratched up/faded, etc

Air Canada had an experimental bare metal for a time about 10 years ago.


Yes I remember that horrendous 767-200 where they had trouble polishing the bare metal and you saw nothing but uneven polish, scuff and scratches. Don't believe they ever attempted bare metal again.

I didn't see that one, but when AA took over AirCal and stripped the 737-100/200/200QC/300 fleet for the AA livery, they looked like old pots and pans that had been scoured and scraped with giant Brillo pads and putty knives. The painted the BAe-146 fleet white.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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Wingtips56
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:26 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Unless they're brand new, bare metal has always looked awful and scratched up/faded, etc

Air Canada had an experimental bare metal for a time about 10 years ago.


Yes I remember that horrendous 767-200 where they had trouble polishing the bare metal and you saw nothing but uneven polish, scuff and scratches. Don't believe they ever attempted bare metal again.

I didn't see that one, but when AA took over AirCal and stripped the 737-100/200/200QC/300 fleet for the AA livery, they looked like old pots and pans that had been scoured and scraped with giant Brillo pads and putty knives. They painted the BAe-146 fleet white.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
pdx
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:31 pm

Trans Global and Columbia!
 
deutronium
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:33 pm

I always thought the Condor DC10s looked pretty good with the black nose cones and bare metal fuselage.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Condor/M ... 30/2377094
Last edited by deutronium on Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:41 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
Yes I remember that horrendous 767-200 where they had trouble polishing the bare metal and you saw nothing but uneven polish, scuff and scratches. Don't believe they ever attempted bare metal again.

That was a test and was never intended to be the "final draft". If it was decided to be used, it would have been properly polished. As it stood, the white paint was just removed and that was it.

In testing, it was deemed to be not that great a fuel saving to warrant the extra manpower required to keep it presentable.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
global2
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:58 am

pdx wrote:
Trans Global and Columbia!


Yes, of course! :D
Signed,
Global2
 
zkncj
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:14 am

NZ had the bottom half of there DC10/DC8 with bare metal, and maybe the 732 at one stage?

Image
 
BMI727
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:25 am

Stitch wrote:
Eastern had a predominately bare metal one, as I recall. US Air, as well, for a time.

As for why it did not become common, I imagine it was upkeep costs. The paint helps protect the airframe underneath and "hand-polishing" an airliner (even with power tools) is a very labor-intensive process so it's expensive and time-consuming.

Boeing did a study a while back and figured that, while lighter, the maintenance and chemicals required for it probably made polishing a tad more expensive than paint.

ACCS300 wrote:
Yes I remember that horrendous 767-200 where they had trouble polishing the bare metal and you saw nothing but uneven polish, scuff and scratches. Don't believe they ever attempted bare metal again.

I think that for a while years ago Boeing hand matched panels for AA aircraft.
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trnswrld
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:38 am

TWA twin stripe polished.

Image
 
dennisho115
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:53 am

JAL Cargo
 
kabq737
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:55 am

Didn't WN have a bare metal aircraft or was it just painted silver?
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zrs70
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:52 am

Western Airlines had a bare metal scheme just before the DL merger. Piedmont had a bare metal version as well. Here's a link with many photos:

www.avsim.com/topic/414910-chrome-airliners-which-ones/
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MakeMinesLAX
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:26 am

United experimented with bare metal below the cheatline on a 727 and DC8 wearing the Saul Bass livery.
 
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precure787
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:45 am

Some airlines (Cathay, JAL) use bare metal on their cargo planes, believing that paint reduces the airframe payload.
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intotheair
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:07 am

DL had a bare metal belly most of the time until the 2007 (current) livery.
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Mumrik
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:32 am

northstardc4m wrote:
American, Eastern and USAir were the big 3 US airlines that did bare metal passenger, all 3 had the 757 in metal, only AA did the 738. In fact i know of no other airline that's done bare metal on a 737NG except as one offs/special schemes.


What special liveries are you thinking about? Is it the special test liveries you mentioned or others? :)
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rjm717
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:41 am

Let's all briefly step into the 'wayback machine' for a moment. When you think about it, every airline that flew aircraft in the DC-3,4,6 era was mostly bare metal.

In fact, basically any jet aircraft until the 70's had some portion of the fuselage exposed as bare metal.

R
 
StTim
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:26 am

Those liveries wouldn't work on many current frames as the growth of composites has been happening on various parts for many years now.
 
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airbuseric
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:55 pm

Channex757 wrote:

Bare metal is pretty (CX had their Silver Bullet freighters) but it does mean a lot of upkeep to keep it shiny.


Japan Airlines was earlier with the bare metal on some of it's freighters. JA8180 (-200F) and JA401J and JA402J (-400F) were the real Silver Bullets, copied by CX later on...

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Japan-Airlines-JAL-Super-Logistics/Boeing-747-246F-SCD/1342209

https://www.airliners.net/photo/japan-airlines-jal-cargo/boeing-747-446fscd/937573


NB - hate the new forum for having no option to include this websites picture thumbnails
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Beatyair
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:04 pm

UA444 wrote:
Unless they're brand new, bare metal has always looked awful and scratched up/faded, etc

Air Canada had an experimental bare metal for a time about 10 years ago.


Air Canada appearantly was reviewing/experimenting - the weight of its paint and fuel economy. If they went silver, would it save them money. I guess branding overruled or the saving was not enough.
 
Beatyair
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:09 pm

Ah, the days of props. I believe most of the constellations where silver. American Airlines and CP Air where my favourite.
 
Mcmax
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:39 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
US literally affected the maintenance schedule of it's ex-PSA 146s by stripping them and polishing them... after BAE told them not to do it (AA never did the ex-AirCal 146s in metal because of the same warnings)


I had never heard about this before. What effect was there on maintenance by stripping the paint?
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Viscount724
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:04 pm

UA444 wrote:
Unless they're brand new, bare metal has always looked awful and scratched up/faded, etc

Air Canada had an experimental bare metal for a time about 10 years ago.


Only on one 767-200 and it looked awful.

Another reason apart from the additional maintenance costs to keep bare metal liveries looking good is that Airbus aircraft can't be bare metal since the paint is part of the anti-corrosion treatment. I believe the only bare metal Airbus aircraft that have ever operated were AA's A300-600s and they weren't bare metal originally if memory correct. I think they had to wait for the Airbus warranty to expire before they removed the paint.
 
Viscount724
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:08 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ had the bottom half of there DC10/DC8 with bare metal, and maybe the 732 at one stage?

Image


Nothing unusual about that. Almost all airlines had that type of livery in the late prop and early jet era. Very few aircraft had a fully-painted fuselage then.
 
iRISH251
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:31 am

Channex757 wrote:
British Airways had a few 737s in sort of bare metal. Their upper half (the white/grey part) was left unpainted as BA was evaluating any savings from this.


Not correct, as a search for photos on this site will show. It was a dark silver paint.
 
UA444
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:50 am

MakeMinesLAX wrote:
United experimented with bare metal below the cheatline on a 727 and DC8 wearing the Saul Bass livery.

There are pictures of that here on A.net too. It looked pretty bad. That livery did have bare metal on the underside of the fuselage, as did the Battleship and Blue Tulip.
 
LPSHobby
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:09 pm

Aeroperu had 757 bare metal, and I am not sure, but I think that Aeromeci had bare-metal 757 too
 
FlyingMSY
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:32 pm

kabq737 wrote:
Didn't WN have a bare metal aircraft or was it just painted silver?


The aircraft in question was N629SW, which was bare metal at the time of unveiling to celebrate WN's 25th anniversary. It was repainted into a silver color afterwards to reduce maintenance, and to standard colors in 2008/9 because the colors did not match WN's color scheme.
 
kraz911
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:45 pm

Hello all,

With a previous response, Lufthansa had a bare belly livery in the 70's. Still have the postcards they gave me when I visited the flight deck on my second trip to Europe as a lad.

When they were going to do their retro 747-8, there were hopes they would follow the original retro livery, but all the composites resulted with the grey paint lower fuse and engine cowlings...
 
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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:47 pm

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Re: Airlines who have/have had bare metal liveries

Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:16 pm

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