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AlitaliaA346
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Smoking on planes!

Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:47 pm

Hi,
In a couple of weeks I am travelling to Los Angeles from Rome, with a friend who is a heavy smoker! Of course he knows he will have to resist for 13+ hours, he will have one last puff right before boarding in the smoking area. But this whole thing sparked my curiosity as I am young and don't remember those days in which people could smoke on board planes. I do realize that it is very disturbing thing to non-smoker and together with a more conscious culture we have reached current regulations. But I was wondering if smoking on planes was also an issue for airlines and managing fleets and interiors: smells, spots of ash on seats, walls, and floor, filter issues, worse tear on seats and so on! if you guys wanna let me know anything on how it was when people could smoke on planes (divided sections or whatever, I really don't know) I'd love to hear about that. And also, if anyone of you smokes as well and has recommendations for my friend, please share them! Last but not least, do you think that cabin crews and pilots ever smoke on board? I feel that if you are conscious(crews really should be!!!) there is not going to be a flame because of that!
Thanks in advance for your answers!
 
Beatyair
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:46 pm

It was horrible back then. A cloud of smoke over the entire plane from both passenger and Flight attendants. Glad it's gone.

Your friend may have issues at the airport as well, as many are non-smoking. Buy the nicotine gum for the trip, who knows it may help him quit.
 
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unother
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:56 pm

I'll have to preach on — as an ex-smoker tell your friend to use the experience to quit, especially as California is very un-friendly to tobacco smokers.
 
bw50505
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:24 pm

unother wrote:
I'll have to preach on — as an ex-smoker tell your friend to use the experience to quit, especially as California is very un-friendly to tobacco smokers.


Yes it especially is.

For the OP, to elaborate on what unother is referring to, is not only the amount of places you can't smoke in public (my general experience in the San Diego area), but also the new California state law that to buy cigarettes and other smoking devices you must be at least 21. It's 18 in nearly the rest of the country, but California is trying to start a new trend. If your friend brings in cigarettes and is under 21, I am not sure how strict customs or LAPD will be about it, but if he is over 21 there are no worries then.
 
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CrimsonNL
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:36 pm

AlitaliaA346 wrote:
Last but not least, do you think that cabin crews and pilots ever smoke on board?


Oh yes! I work as a ground dispatcher for a handling agent, and deal with over 25 different airlines. Including some major European legacy carriers. I think the only airline where I've never seen the crew smoke on board (during ground times mind you) is a very large British airline. All the other crews will do it from time to time. I have to say, the crews from Mediterranean countries are the worst and the crews from Turkey take the cake.

Honestly I think it's rather disrespectful to us ground staff. While I don't suffer from asthma or lung conditions, I do have the right by Dutch law to have a smoke-free workplace. Breathing in kerosene and diesel fumes all day likely won't be beneficial to my health, so I don't need a smoke-filled galley or cockpit when I'm talking to the crew. And then there's of course the lingering smell of smoke which is still noticeable when the passengers are boarding..

Martijn
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:50 pm

Back when I was 18 my family flew to San Francisco for Christmas. On the return flight SFO-DFW on a Braniff 727-200 there were not enough nonsmoking seats available, so my brother and I had to sit in the very back of the nonsmoking section near the rear airstairs. It was really awful having to sit there. The lack of humidity in the cabin air made the effect of the smoke even worse. Many of the passengers back there had a cigarette lit every second the no smoking light was off.

I'm very glad that all flights are nonsmoking nowadays.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:04 pm

One lasts puff in the smoking area? LAX, like almost every U.S. airport, has no "smoking areas."
a.
 
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mikelive
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:07 pm

Aircraft smoking on their own, however, is also frowned upon.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... throw.html
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:09 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
One lasts puff in the smoking area? LAX, like almost every U.S. airport, has no "smoking areas."

I thought LAX had those smoking patios inside security? I know IAD has smoking rooms as I was just transiting through there about a month ago. I even saw a pilot in there. They can have all the reduced air pressure they want in those rooms, but the smell still penetrates to the terminal!
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:21 pm

It was really horrible in those days, but it was a different culture. Back then almost everybody smoked, nowadays that's far less. I don't smoke myself, but someone once told me smoking is like eating garlic. It stinks, but if you smoke yourself you won't smell it anymore. Therefor in those days there were almost no complaints about it.

As an advice for your friend I can only suggest nicotine piasters or nicotine chewing gum, and suggest him to stop smoking.
 
acabgd
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:24 pm

CrimsonNL wrote:
Honestly I think it's rather disrespectful to us ground staff. While I don't suffer from asthma or lung conditions, I do have the right by Dutch law to have a smoke-free workplace.

Well, technically you're on foreign soil when entering a foreign plane, so your Dutch law right might not apply there.

I am a smoker and the pilots at my airline are still allowed to smoke in cockpit. The doors are closed nowadays anyway. Although I'm a smoker myself I don't have a particular problem flying overseas without smoking for 10-12 hours. However, I do have a problem with airports not having smoking lounges - it's usually not illegal to smoke in a designated area which can be fully separated from the rest of the airport, so I don't see any particular reason for not making this convenience for smokers - unless you don't really care and simply want to pi** them off. That of course is stupid as I've seen my share of very drunk passengers and there are no calls for banning serving alcohol in airport bars (or on planes as a matter of fact).

One thing smoking on board was good for back in the old days was for mechanics to quickly find any leakage in the airframe, as the tar from the smoke would leave a telltale trace. I must admit it still must have been a terrible experience for the non-smokers to fly back in the day. For me it was wonderful, sip your drink while having a cigarette, enjoy a good meal and another cigarette afterwards. And they even sold cigarettes from the on board duty free on international flights back then.

One thing was stupid though, there was never a real physical divider between smoking and non-smoking areas (for obvious reasons). I know a European airline which had a particularly stupid layout where say the left side on a narrowbody was smoking, while the seats on the right side were non-smoking. Meaning you've basically had a smoker not more than 5 feet away from you and throughout the cabin :o
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lightsaber
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:32 pm

You're friend will have a tough time in California. By law, businesses must minimize exposure to carcinogens. Since smoking (including vaping) has unusually high concentrations of proven carcinogens, it can be a challenge to find spaces where to smoke.

I personally will 'discuss' with smokers who think they can contaminate my children. If is one thing if it is just the smoker impacted, but 2nd hand smoke is bad. I have unusually good lungs, but 3 of my relatives will react to cigarette smoke.

Please be aware if you are assigned a non-smoking rental car, there is a $500 cleaning fee + 1 (or 2) days of rental for the cleaning time if that individual smokes in a non-smoking rental car. Also be aware there is no smoking within 50 feet (they'll not that strict, so call it 10+ meters) of a business entrance.

Beatyair wrote:
It was horrible back then. A cloud of smoke over the entire plane from both passenger and Flight attendants. Glad it's gone.

Your friend may have issues at the airport as well, as many are non-smoking. Buy the nicotine gum for the trip, who knows it may help him quit.

It was horrible. I remember the thick cloud. It just wasn't possible to get away. There was ground breaking research by Professor Dunn-Rankine on how it was impossible to keep smoke from non-smoking sections of airplanes, restaurants, and businesses.

So I started by only doing business with companies that prohibited smoking near customers (e.g., Starbucks or Islands restaurants).

This smoker will just have to accept they will go not only the 13 hour flight without a smoke, but possibly a few hours.

acabgd wrote:
That of course is stupid as I've seen my share of very drunk passengers and there are no calls for banning serving alcohol in airport bars (or on planes as a matter of fact).

One thing smoking on board was good for back in the old days was for mechanics to quickly find any leakage in the airframe, as the tar from the smoke would leave a telltale trace.

Overall, a very balanced post. I appreciate your input. However, smoking net increased the maintenance and cleaning costs, so from an airline operations perspective, you want to ban it.

As to drinking, I've had more issues with drunk passengers (as a passenger) than anything else while flying. I do think airports should have smoking lounges not too far from the gates.

There are 3 smoking lounges at LAX:
http://www.trippy.com/question/Los-Ange ... AX-airport

However, due to the airports layout, that is not sufficient. Even as a non-smoker, I believe in being fair. UA customers must go to T7. T2 and TBIT cover most international customers.

But that leaves AA, DL, and WN customers without. I'm for banning in public places, but also a reasonable provision for smoking lounges and by my definition, LAX's smoking areas need to be expanded.


Lightsaber
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Viscount724
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:27 pm

acabgd wrote:
I am a smoker and the pilots at my airline are still allowed to smoke in cockpit. The doors are closed nowadays anyway.


How common is that policy at major airlines? I wasn't aware that was a frequent practice. I believe it also violates the ICAO standard on inflight smoking.

Doesn't that create the possibility of conflicts with your colleague(s) in the cockpit if they are non-smokers, or do you only smoke if everyone agrees it's acceptable?
 
ualcsr
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:17 am

I smoke a cigarette socially from time to time, but smoking on airplanes was horrible. There was no barrier between smoking and non-smoking areas so if you were in say, non-smoking row 26 and smoking rows began in 27, it was pretty bad. I do wonder if there is any airline out there that still has a smoking section.

TWA772LR wrote:
I know IAD has smoking rooms as I was just transiting through there about a month ago
Yes, it's disgusting in there. Doesn't ATL have one too?
 
deutronium
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:50 am

When smoking anywhere was the norm, I don't remember it being a problem on planes. That could've been because of the way air is circulated or exchanged on planes. I just don't remember the smokiness or the number of people actually smoking at any one time on a plane being anything like a Las Vegas casino is even today.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:48 am

There are no beyond security smoking areas at LAX. They have all been closed.
a.
 
Cush
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:00 am

As a fellow smoker, I really disrespect the fact that so many US Airports do not offer smoking lounges. I actually travel (mostly trans atlantic) 4-5 times per year, and will ONLY connect via airports that offer smoking lounges. Through all of my travels, i have learned where you can and cannot smoke. It is really a shame that more US airports aren't like the EU in that respect. In Frankfurt, there is a smoking lounge almost every 10 feet. haha.

What i usually do is, leave my home of Pittsburgh (PIT) with no lounges, and connect via IAD (Dulles). I smoke a few in there, and then proceed to fly abroad. I usually connect in either FRA or ZRH due to their smoking lounges, and then on to my final destination.

During the flight, i bring 4mg nicorette gum. While it doesn't give you the same benefits as smoking, it helps to keep calm and relaxed during the flight. It really does work as a "supplement".
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
zrs70
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:27 am

One common phrase I often hear when landing at LAX goes something like this:

"Welcome to LAX. Please refrain from smoking until you get to the Nevada border."
20 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2020
 
acabgd
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:06 am

lightsaber wrote:
Overall, a very balanced post. I appreciate your input. However, smoking net increased the maintenance and cleaning costs, so from an airline operations perspective, you want to ban it.

Thanks. Although I am a smoker myself I really understand others craving clean air and try to respect that fully.

lightsaber wrote:
However, due to the airports layout, that is not sufficient. Even as a non-smoker, I believe in being fair.

Thanks for this. Again, I don't want to endanger anyone else with my smoking, but as long as it's a legal activity (i.e. not banned as drugs) I just want to be able to enjoy it. I fully understand the days of smoking on board are gone, but at least give the courtesy to smokers by opening up airport smoking lounges. It's not a huge investment (most lounges in Europe are plastered in tobacco ads anyway) and they really add to (smoking) passenger convenience.

As for California, I've never really had a problem. Actually it was more difficult for me to smoke in NYC than in SF or LA. Just recently I've been to California again and the only place where it was almost impossible to smoke was in San Luis Obispo, as they have what seems a general smoking ban anywhere in public. However, in LA and surrounding counties, as well as in Palm Springs and surrounding places I've found plenty of bars and cafes with patios where you could smoke without any problem.
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AlitaliaA346
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:26 am

Thanks for all of your replies! Yes in FCO there are smoking rooms, but i guess my friend will have a hard time buying new smokes, as we are nit 21 yet... i guess he will try to carry in some cigs and see how it goes! Really thank you!
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:15 pm

Smoking on flights of less than either 6 or 3 hours (can't remember which) was first prohibited around 1987- 1989. At least in the U.S. All smoking was banned a few years later. I want to say 1991ish.

You have to remember that 25-30 years ago, although smoking rates were dropping, it was still common, with around 30% of the adult population being consumers. The rate was even higher if you go back decades previous to that. There wasn't the social stigma and you could more or less smoke where you wanted. Inside or out. Even places like shopping malls had ashtrays. Nobody gave a damn. And, most of those non-smokers that survived those years of secondhand smoke, are still here!

I was only about 11 when smoking was banned. Of course I wasn't a smoker then, but I was never bothered by smoke. I miss the smell of entering a 727 to the aroma of airline coffee, stale cig smoke, and airplane cabin smell. It's ingrained in my memory.

I did get to fly on an Air Berlin flight, in 2003, with a smoking section. TXL-PMI. It was kind of bizarre to me. EU law ended that shortly after.

For your friend... Un-unflavored e-cig. Go vape in the restroom, as to not draw attention. Even the airlines are jumping on the bandwagon banning vaping these days. Secondhand steam isn't going to harm anybody though. Especially, if they never notice and can't start a fake coughing act.

A few years ago, before vaping was getting banned, i'd just use the cartridges that produce no visible vapor and have no floor. I'd discreetly use it right at my seat and nobody ever noticed because it didn't produce the visible appearance of what looks like smoke.
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:21 pm

Cush wrote:
As a fellow smoker, I really disrespect the fact that so many US Airports do not offer smoking lounges. I actually travel (mostly trans atlantic) 4-5 times per year, and will ONLY connect via airports that offer smoking lounges. Through all of my travels, i have learned where you can and cannot smoke. It is really a shame that more US airports aren't like the EU in that respect. In Frankfurt, there is a smoking lounge almost every 10 feet. haha.
t".



I always try to connect in ATL if it's feasible, because it's the only airport I know of that still has smoking lounges inside the terminals.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:55 pm

It was horrible, trust me. The blocked nose, the blueish smoke cloud hovering over your head, the stinging eyes....
 
Heinkel
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:18 pm

One thing was stupid though, there was never a real physical divider between smoking and non-smoking areas (for obvious reasons). I know a European airline which had a particularly stupid layout where say the left side on a narrowbody was smoking, while the seats on the right side were non-smoking. Meaning you've basically had a smoker not more than 5 feet away from you and throughout the cabin :o

Indeed. In the late 1980s I flew often beween HAJ and STG on LH 737s. The starboard side of the cabin was SMOKER and the port side was NONSMOKER.

I'm a non-smoker and I never understood, how the smoke would stop at the aisle.

The worst thing was, that I even as a non-smoker had to book a seat in the smoker starboard side, to get a seat at the side opposite to the sun on a N-S flight.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:05 pm

I spent most of my childhood and teenage years flying SEA-GVA-SEA twice annually. The smoking ban didn't come into effect for international flights until the last few years I made the trip.

It was HORRIBLE.

Every time I got off the TATL leg of my trip, I felt like someone had taken a knife to my lungs, even as a kid. It took two days or so before I felt like I could breathe normally. My clothes from the trip inevitably smelled so bad that whichever parent was picking me up would comment about it.

There was no way to avoid it. The plane is one big open space, and air circulates throughout. It was particularly bad when I got seated in smoking (which happened often, as there were rarely enough nonsmoking seats) or in the back couple of rows of the nonsmoking section, but sitting up front only helped a bit.

The experience left me without a shred of sympathy for smokers. It's a vile and disgusting habit.

Personally, I think indoor smoking should only be allowed in sealed, negative-pressure-ventilated spaces. Outdoors, it should be forbidden anywhere people need to walk. At a minimum that includes 50 m from all entrances/exits to public buildings or facilities, mass transit stops, or high-traffic sidewalks.
 
quiet1
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:09 pm

I remember the HNL-NRT flights, which were 95% Japanese passengers, in the "Good Old Days." Not only was E-zone on the 747 smoking, for a while, so was half of D-zone. As soon as the no-smoking sign was turned off, it would be a dense blue cloud back there. Standing at door 4, sometimes you couldn't see door 5.
 
acabgd
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:23 pm

quiet1 wrote:
I remember the HNL-NRT flights, which were 95% Japanese passengers, in the "Good Old Days." Not only was E-zone on the 747 smoking, for a while, so was half of D-zone.

Yeah, Japanese are very heavy smokers even nowadays so I can only imagine it was a nightmare. Although I'm still surprised smoking is somehow not allowed in Etihad or Emirates First. When a sheikh shells out tens of thousands on "his" plane, I wonder how he refrains.
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ulfinator
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:52 pm

I myself am just old enough to remember it some though interestingly I can only remember one time where it was an issue and sticks out to this day. I had been jumping on a trampoline with some friends and a collision resulted in me getting a scratch on my eye. My eye was already painful and watering a bunch but the next day I got the joy sitting in the smoking section (weren't able to get non-smoking that flight) from DFW-BOS. That would have been early in 1986 as I also recall the crash of Delta 191 at DFW from a few months before.
 
Viscount724
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:59 am

acabgd wrote:
quiet1 wrote:
I remember the HNL-NRT flights, which were 95% Japanese passengers, in the "Good Old Days." Not only was E-zone on the 747 smoking, for a while, so was half of D-zone.

Yeah, Japanese are very heavy smokers even nowadays so I can only imagine it was a nightmare.


It's ironic that a country with more smokers than average also has the world's longest average life expectancy.
 
enzedder
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:23 am

kia ora

i remember lots of smokers seating in the non smoking section and just occasionally walking to the back of the plaine to the smoking section to sit in one of the seats that was not accupied to have a puff. if travelling with a family the smoking family member would do so for example. i even did it myself when i was still smoking. the tiny little ashtrays were always brimming over with buds in those seats. it was a pretty disgusting thing.

but at least it was a first step into the right direction of having smoking and non smoking zones. in the 60s and 70s there were no zones at all and your seat neighbour probably lid up a cigarette next to you with a toddler on your lab without hesitating.....

glad though they have banned smoking from planes these days.

cheers

enzedder
 
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jsnww81
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:16 am

enzedder wrote:
i remember lots of smokers seating in the non smoking section and just occasionally walking to the back of the plaine to the smoking section to sit in one of the seats that was not accupied to have a puff. if travelling with a family the smoking family member would do so for example.


That was my parents on all our DFW to HNL flights back in the 1980s. We always sat in nonsmoking, but several times during the flight, my folks would get us situated with coloring books or headphones for the movie, then dash to the back of the plane for a smoke.

I don't remember the smoke being unbearable back in those days, but again, we were typically in the nonsmoking area. As others have said, you were around smokers at restaurants, in the mall, at sporting events, etc. My friend's father, who was only in his early or mid 30s, used to smoke a pipe while driving our carpool full of kids to school every morning. I'm sure our teacher wondered why we all smelled like the inside of a tobacconist's shop.

It was sort of part of the background of life back then, and you didn't notice it to the degree you do today. Sometime in the early/mid 1990s it was denormalized to a pretty astonishing degree. It's actually pretty amazing to realize how commonplace it used to be.
 
VHOGU
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:37 am

Social smoker here.. I'm so glad this isn't a thing anymore. Honestly, just go without for the flight. It won't kill you. If you're at the stage where you can't go a day or two without a cigarette, you probably smoke way too much and should get help to quit. Even the smokers rooms at airports are disgusting and I wouldn't use them. There's nothing worse than sitting next to someone who reeks of stale cigs either. Save it for your home, or at a bar. It's not going to become trendy again..
 
Cessna172RG
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:22 pm

I have a solution for you.

As a "nicotine user" (that term that AS loves to call us) I rarely smoke. Instead, I use one of the following products:

Marlboro Snus
Skoal Snus
Camel Snus (I will seek out the first two brands before this one, as it is the weakest and not my favorite).

They are mint flavored pouches that don't require you to spit and are discreet, so you can get your fix, not have to smoke, and are not in violation of any rules and don't have to worry about a smoking lounge. I use them all day long, in the office, in the car, on flights, and the best part is that you don't have to spit like with traditional chewing tobacco products.

Problem solved. And, you're welcome.
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ContnlEliteCMH
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:40 pm

My parents are non-smokers and I personally have never consumed a tobacco product of any kind, in any quantity, in my 45+ years. However, I had a grandfather who smoked, and neighbors who smoked inside and outside of their houses, so I had plenty of exposure to cigarette smoke. While I have never enjoyed being around tobacco smoke, the only times I ever felt invaded by it was on airplanes as a small child. My nose burned and the "smell" was something more intense, like a physical feeling to go along with the odor.

Today, we look back at that era with a bit of amazement, that a few people were allowed to create such a stench for everybody else for hours on end. But this amazement is tempered by an understanding of that day's culture. You could smoke in stores, in airports, in restaurants, and even your office. Between 1994 and 1996 I spent 18 months in the engineering services office of a large fashion retailer in Columbus. Of the four long-time engineers in the department, two were smokers. They were permitted to smoke in their cubicles and they did -- a lot. They were even permitted to smoke in the department's conference room when it was full of non-smokers, and they did -- a lot. But even that was nothing like the stench of flying in a 727 with several rows of people puffing away. It was intense and unpleasant.

People have varying sensitivities to odors. I dislike human body odor more than nearly all others. I *might* actually find the cigarette smoke preferable.
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eielef
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:58 am

Two friends of mine, both pilots, heavy smokers, they both smoke in the cockpit while on flight. And the airline makes a bling eye on them. And both are mayor airlines, one from SE Asia and the other from Europe.
Myself as a heavy smoker, and also a long-haul often flyer, I already got used to. Is a few hours of not smoking. And in some airports they do have smokers lounges, even before arriving to Migrations (ZRH or FRA come to my mind). But even the EZE-MIA flight, customs takes ages (both in MIA and EZE) so the first cigarette is the best of the month.

I wish all airports had a smoker lounge. Is not that hard to build it, and it doesn't affect the rest of the people.
I'm transiting tomorrow at JFK. Is there a smoker lounge? International transit, if i'm not allowed to smoke in the transit terminal, I'll do the migration queue, have my passport stamp, and go outside for a smoke (or 2 or 10) before doing about 40 minutes of queue for the Security Controls and boarding the AA flight to EZE, where again i'll be mostly hold not in passport control, but by the Customs agents which scan every single item of yours, and even they make you show the serial number of your mobile phone or laptop, to see in their system which is the value, if it was bought legally, and so on. It takes ages.... And there is only one queue, both for foreigners and locals. Foreigners are only scanned and letted through. I try to go to the foreigners queue (as I'm a legal resident of another country), and myself i have both a phone and a macbook which are 4 years old, so no one really cares. But the guy in front of me always carry some thing which will be prohibited and which will be further inspected, taking more and more minutes of that glorious winter morning smoke in the bus stop at EZE Airport...
 
sirdanilot
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Smoking on planes!

Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:21 am

Occasional smoker here (now, that is. there are periods in which I don't smoke at all, and periods in which I have been a regular smoker)

I would be thrilled to be able to smoke on a plane once, are there still domestic flights (maybe in Indonesia or something?) where it is still allowed? Because as far as I know, there is not actually any world-wide law banning smoking in aviation period. However the reason for this is exactly because 1. it reminds of a time long-gone (the 80s where everybody smoked) 2. it's allowed almost nowhere and it's cool to do stuff that's not allowed anywhere. For rational reasons, of course it's logical and good that smoking is banned on planes. It's a closed environment so the smoke has nowhere to go, and the air is already dry and it would just be very unpleasant. It also creates a fire hazard.

I do agree with most people here, though, that there should be smoker lounges (or just an outside area, accessible after security) at EVERY airport, and AIRSIDE (landside you just go outside). Nothing more annoying than coming off a 13 hour long flight, having 5 hours lay over and not being able to smoke. Or worse, a shorter lay over so you don't even have the time to go landside and outside. The cost of these lounges should be no problem, as they are covered completely in tobacco adds (at least in holland that's the case). As tobacco companies have such little opportunity for advertisement nowadays, they will gladly pay up.

I have the general idea that Europe is much more tolerant towards smoking than the Americas. In Brazil, I have never seen a smoking area in an airport. The """"smoking area""""" is landside, outside the entrance, and consists of a puny little ashtray and a smoker sign. Here in holland, up until not too many years ago (maybe 5 years or so) it was common to smoke anywhere inside, in bars and restaurants, and I believe a bit before that even the trains had smoker cabins. It's unbelieveable to see how all that has rapidly changed only fairly recently; now you can't smoke almost anywhere. Even on a train platform OUTSIDE, you have to smoke in an arbitrary 'smoking zone' (a square painted on the floor, with a puny little ashtray and a smoker sign...). Though I must say, if you stay at most bars a bit late into the night, they will generally lift the smoking ban and you can smoke inside. But it's not allowed officially.

My motto of where smoking is allowed is: inside not okay, outside okay. Of course it's rude to light up in the middle of a crowd of people, even outside. But on a quiet train platform OUTSIDE it should be no problem IMO. I myself would never smoke at home, for example, or in my car. I once allowed a visitor to smoke inside my room as it was cold to stand on the balcony, but I regretted it so much, the stench lingered for days.
 
eielef
Posts: 724
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:54 am

I believe it was first in Canada and the US they decided ban on smoking in planes. Well, they also banned smoking on restaurants, on bars, on busses, on cinemas, etc. They say it hurts people around you, and that is a fact. But also is a fact that the smoke of a car engine hurts you as well, and they don't ban it. Or a nuclear plant.
So, as a smoker who doesn't want to quit smoking, but is heavily committed to be in the law, I even ask if smoking is allowed in a given place where I'm not sure.
I was this week in Slovakia, a EU country (a pretty amazing one), and smoking is allowed everywhere. You cross to Austria and there is a smoking ban on every place. Even cigarettes (Winston 20, for 2,90Eur) costs over twice in Vienna (6Eur).
Is there any logic? I pay taxes, really heavy on my habits, as you pay taxes on fuel, or on alcohol, or on BigMacs. But at least, allow me to do it, legally, in some normal places.
For instance. In the US in almost all restaurants they sell you alcohol, at any time. Also on shops, petrol stations and supermarkets. Also with cigarettes, you can buy them, but the problem is not getting them, is finding a place where you are allowed to smoke. Alcohol is as big a problem as tobacco. And worse are drugs, though now in some places they are legal (sort of, e.g. AZ or CA)
I strongly disagree with that rule that doesn't allow you to smoke legally, cigarettes that you bought legally, paying really high taxes, and you are not allowed to enjoy anywhere...
Not even in a smoker lounge or terrace in an airport.
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3573
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

Re: Smoking on planes!

Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:14 am

I'm gonna be the contrarian who says it really wasn't that bad. And I'm someone who glares at anyone I see smoking within a 10 foot radius of me on the street. I've never smoked a day in my life and I think smoking is a stupid, disgusting and pointless habit.

But airplanes do a 100% change of the air in the cabin something like 10 times per hour. It's constantly being refreshed. Up (or back) in the non-smoking section, I never really noticed any smell of smoke. There was just constantly old air being sucked out and new air being blown in. And if the air was a little stuffy (as it sometimes was when you first boarded), most planes had the little personal vents, which aren't nearly as common anymore. You could have fresh air literally blowing directly into your face if you wanted it.

Keep in mind also that planes often didn't fly very full in those days. It was pretty common to be in a 90 seat 727-100 that had 15-20 people in it. I personally once flew in a domestic DC-10 that had maybe four people in the whole plane... that was all I could see. One of them was a smoker. You can imagine that with a DC-10's ventilation, one guy who's sitting like 1/8 of a mile away is not going to cause any real smell.

It's not like today where the entire plane is jammed full of people and all of them were smoking. At that time planes would be about 50% full and maybe 10-20% of those people would be smoking at any given time. So it probably wasn't how you're picturing, or how it seems like a lot of people are remembering. I flew a lot in the 70's and early 80's and I have a lot of specific memories about smoking on planes, and most of them involve just watching a single smoker puffing up from 10 or more rows away.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
trex8
Posts: 5584
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: Smoking on planes!

Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:51 pm

eielef wrote:
But also is a fact that the smoke of a car engine hurts you as well, and they don't ban it. Or a nuclear plant.

Modern car emissions are really clean, PZEV Partial Zero Emission Vehicles which are mandated by about a dozen states and comprise a significant portion of all cars sold in the rest of the US in other states have tail pipe emissions which are cleaner than the downtown air in LA. Theres some ridiculous statistic that if you mow your lawn (or even use a gas powered lawn trimmer) you produced more pollution than driving your car hundreds of miles.
Nuke plants if they are working properly arent emitting anything you have to worry about into the atmosphere.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6593
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:38 am

Well, technically you're on foreign soil when entering a foreign plane, so your Dutch law right might not apply there.

Some countries will only respect that once the door is closed.

Am a smoker, and I'm happy that today's flights are non-smoking.

I believe it also violates the ICAO standard on inflight smoking.

I have yet to see what standards that refer to in ICAO...

---

Back in those days, the stench you smell is the smell of tobacco on the seats, and not in the air... But hey, I don't enjoy staying in a smoker's hotel room... I don't enjoy smoking in a badly ventilated closed environment... why? The lingering stench sticking on whatever...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
User avatar
767333ER
Posts: 1170
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Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:58 am

eielef wrote:
I believe it was first in Canada and the US they decided ban on smoking in planes. Well, they also banned smoking on restaurants, on bars, on busses, on cinemas, etc. They say it hurts people around you, and that is a fact. But also is a fact that the smoke of a car engine hurts you as well, and they don't ban it. Or a nuclear plant.
So, as a smoker who doesn't want to quit smoking, but is heavily committed to be in the law, I even ask if smoking is allowed in a given place where I'm not sure.
I was this week in Slovakia, a EU country (a pretty amazing one), and smoking is allowed everywhere. You cross to Austria and there is a smoking ban on every place. Even cigarettes (Winston 20, for 2,90Eur) costs over twice in Vienna (6Eur).
Is there any logic? I pay taxes, really heavy on my habits, as you pay taxes on fuel, or on alcohol, or on BigMacs. But at least, allow me to do it, legally, in some normal places.
For instance. In the US in almost all restaurants they sell you alcohol, at any time. Also on shops, petrol stations and supermarkets. Also with cigarettes, you can buy them, but the problem is not getting them, is finding a place where you are allowed to smoke. Alcohol is as big a problem as tobacco. And worse are drugs, though now in some places they are legal (sort of, e.g. AZ or CA)
I strongly disagree with that rule that doesn't allow you to smoke legally, cigarettes that you bought legally, paying really high taxes, and you are not allowed to enjoy anywhere...
Not even in a smoker lounge or terrace in an airport.


If I remember correctly, Air Canada was the first. As stated before, cigarette of any tobacco smoke is far more carcinogenic and toxic than car exhaust or the harmless water vapour a correctly functioning nuclear plant produces. What also is not fair about at comparison is that you want smoking to be allowed indoors by stating that car exhaust that is expelled outdoors is the same or worse than smoking in an enclosed building. Smoking, and "vaping" for that matter, is banned where I live, but I can will go out on the street and do it (I never have or will do such a thing). Of people were running their cars inside restaurants somehow, I am 100% certain that would be banned too. What is slowly being made legal is marajuana. The same restrictions are placed on it as on cigarettes as it is considered smoking. It is often argued though that cigarettes are still worse. Alcohol has its own serious problems, but is a whole different animal. Its primary problems are not carcinogenic, but are what people can do if they are intoxicated.

Back to the topic, I am glad smoking was banned on airplanes.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180

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soulbarn
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:24 pm

Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:40 am

Anybody who smokes obviously knows this, so I make this general comment not from logic or even an aviation standpoint, but from an emotional one...

My Dad, of all people, knew how terrible cigarettes were for him, and he understood - probably better than anyone - the grip tobacco addiction has on him; you see, he was a doctor who'd spent most of his career treating heroin addicts. But still, he couldn't stop smoking.

Over the space of a decade, he lost his ability to speak, due to laryngeal cancer.
He lost his ability to travel to remote parts of the world after his second heart attack.
He lost his ability to walk in the woods near his home to search for birds and butterflies after emphysema left him breathless after even mild exertion.
He lost his life four years ago next month, dying on a ventilator in a hospital ICU.
And with his death, my two little boys lost the chance of ever knowing the smartest, kindest man I've ever known.

For the misery they cause, I wish that the tobacco companies could be seen - and treated - like the drug pushers they are. I hope your friend finds a way to use this brief, forced withdrawal as a way to quit.

Sorry if this got too personal.
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13726
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:07 am

767333ER wrote:
As stated before, cigarette of any tobacco smoke is far more carcinogenic and toxic than car exhaust or the harmless water vapour a correctly functioning nuclear plant produces.
Maybe to put it into perspective: If you inhale the exhaust emissions from your car directly and in a closed environment, the carbon monoxide can kill you within minutes. On the other hand, smoking kills you over long periods of time, depending on how much you smoke. I used to smoke 15 Marlboro Lights a day, and I'm happy that I quit over seven years ago.

As for the topic at hand, I never really noticed any smoking as a child on board an aircraft. Sure, when I had my first flight in 1987, there were still smoking sections on board aircraft and a total ban on smoking on board was still unthinkable, but I don't remember any major smoking. I believe that starting in 1993 or 1997, all the flights I've been on were non-smoking anyway.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
Bzzz
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:09 am

In NOV 1994 i flew Air Mauritius from FCO to MRU with a brand new A343 and i was sitting in the front area of the plane; once the boarding was complete i moved to the smoking area, plane's rear, which was separated from the rest with curtains.

I was 18 years old and i remember that, during those years, you could chose while booking the flight if you were a smoker or not.

Probably that 343 is still in service..
 
jetstar
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:11 pm

Many years ago when I did almost all my flying on TWA, my wife and I were on a flight from JFK to LAS on a L-1011. Normally on the L-1011 TWA marked off the last ten rows as the smoking section by placing signs on the seat backs of the starting row so when I booked the flight I made sure I was a few rows forward of the smoking section.

When we bordered the flight I noticed they had moved up the smoking section to the row ahead of us, I asked the FA why they did this and she told me the LAS flights have a higher percentage of smokers than other flights so to accommodate them TWA added more smoking rows on these flights. This was a full flight so there were no other seats we could have moved to so we had to put up with the smoke for the flight. I made sure to change our seats before our return flight to seats farther forward in the cabin.

I for one am really grateful that the FAA banned smoking on airplanes.

JetStar
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:35 pm

acabgd wrote:

I am a smoker and the pilots at my airline are still allowed to smoke in cockpit. The doors are closed nowadays anyway.


What airlines still permit their pilots to smoke in the cockpit? Those are airlines I would prefer to avoid.
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2406
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

Re: Smoking on planes!

Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:22 pm

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
For your friend... Un-unflavored e-cig. Go vape in the restroom, as to not draw attention. Even the airlines are jumping on the bandwagon banning vaping these days. Secondhand steam isn't going to harm anybody though. Especially, if they never notice and can't start a fake coughing act.

A few years ago, before vaping was getting banned, i'd just use the cartridges that produce no visible vapor and have no floor. I'd discreetly use it right at my seat and nobody ever noticed because it didn't produce the visible appearance of what looks like smoke.


This is terrible advice. Vaping still produces a particulate cloud that will interfere with the smoke detectors in the lavs and likely set them off. Ask me how I know, and I'll tell you the story of my 2 most recent "Lav Smoke" alarms in flight that nearly caused us to divert until we discovered that the source was someone who couldn't obey the rules. Our "smoke" detectors are actually "particulate" detectors. Nevermind that the exhaled vapor is still harmful. The bigger issue, however, is that the batteries that power the devices are susceptible to thermal runaway and a fire on an airplane in flight is right up there at the top of most pilots lists of "Things I Least Want to Have to Deal With At Work."
Life is better when you surf.
 
robsaw
Posts: 443
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:14 am

Re: Smoking on planes!

Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:44 am

acabgd wrote:
Well, technically you're on foreign soil when entering a foreign plane, so your Dutch law right might not apply there.



Not even close to being "technically" correct. There are several international air transport treaties that apply to commercial traffic and allow for LIMITED and SPECIFIC application of foreign regulations in another country or in international airspace - none of which make the interior of an airliner akin to "foreign soil" while on the ground in other than the home country of the aircraft/airline.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3625
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Smoking on planes!

Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:26 am

AlitaliaA346 wrote:
Hi,
In a couple of weeks I am travelling to Los Angeles from Rome, with a friend who is a heavy smoker! Of course he knows he will have to resist for 13+ hours, he will have one last puff right before boarding in the smoking area. But this whole thing sparked my curiosity as I am young and don't remember those days in which people could smoke on board planes. I do realize that it is very disturbing thing to non-smoker and together with a more conscious culture we have reached current regulations. But I was wondering if smoking on planes was also an issue for airlines and managing fleets and interiors: smells, spots of ash on seats, walls, and floor, filter issues, worse tear on seats and so on! if you guys wanna let me know anything on how it was when people could smoke on planes (divided sections or whatever, I really don't know) I'd love to hear about that. And also, if anyone of you smokes as well and has recommendations for my friend, please share them! Last but not least, do you think that cabin crews and pilots ever smoke on board? I feel that if you are conscious(crews really should be!!!) there is not going to be a flame because of that!
Thanks in advance for your answers!



in terms of FA's there were a lot of laps put out from jokers falling asleep on flight. From the Operations end there were holes burned in seats, carpets & blankets. The Fa's had a higher cancer risk as the smoke moves to the rear on a plane and the Fa's spent more time in rear galleys.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3625
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Smoking on planes!

Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:44 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
It was really horrible in those days, but it was a different culture. Back then almost everybody smoked, nowadays that's far less. I don't smoke myself, but someone once told me smoking is like eating garlic. It stinks, but if you smoke yourself you won't smell it anymore. Therefor in those days there were almost no complaints about it.

As an advice for your friend I can only suggest nicotine piasters or nicotine chewing gum, and suggest him to stop smoking.



Yes and no on the smelling. I had a friend return from STL they allow smoking in Missouri businesses. He was telling us about it on the patio at the bar in Phoenix, while he was smoking (pack a day.) He told us how horrible it was back there, he could hardly breath in the clubs, the smoke was so heavy he went outside to talk with people. Then told us I got in my rental car ad was like "whats that smell" and realized it was me. He said I never knew we all smelled so bad when we held all the smoke indoors. So no smokers that do it outside will smell it inside if their clothes are covered & then they get into a tight space without a breeze.

The planes smelled back then quite bad. However whats missed by the maintenance people is the yellow tar that would show in the fuselage cracks in the plane. It was easier to find the cracks. Think about that buildup & what it would look like in your lungs.

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