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ojjunior
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Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:49 pm

Past few days, enjoying my flight app, I've seen Delta's 77L flying to S.American medium haul routes like SJU and LIM.
Any reason for that? A premium ULH bird flying to those "non-premium" destinations?
Or maybe just in order not to leave the plane grounded for hours during stopovers?
May DL could send it to GRU sometimes, I'll probably buy a ticket just to fly it, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on that... :D
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:55 pm

Um, I'll take a one word stab at it.......: CARGO??
 
winGl3t
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:01 pm

They are also flying it on daily ATL-LIM-ATL.
The 77L is sitting on the tarmac during ATL-NRT-ATL rotations and LIM is a cargo heavy destination
 
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Polot
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:01 pm

Those asparagus from Peru are not going to move themselves.
 
deltairlines
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:06 pm

Haven't seen it in SJU in the past week. LIM is on the Summer 2016 schedule as a 77L. It's pretty favorable aircraft utilization as NRT-ATL lands around 345p, which gives a quick two hour turn time to LIM. With ATL-LIM-ATL being a one plane rotation, it gets back in the morning and then can go to TechOps and be used back to NRT or to JNB.

No chance a 77L would be used to GRU right now (aside from one-off swaps; I actually had a flight about a year ago get swapped on ATL-GRU from a 767-300 to a 777-200LR. Was quite happy about that since I like the business class seat more on the 777 than the 767. Either way, a normal schedule would require 2 77Ls on any GRU route, and there's not enough in the system to sacrifice it; let alone it's not needed (if they want similar capacity, they can easily use an A330-300 which has 3 less business seats and 5 more coach seats and can easily do ATL-GRU with a full payload).
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:14 pm

deltairlines wrote:
Haven't seen it in SJU in the past week. LIM is on the Summer 2016 schedule as a 77L. It's pretty favorable aircraft utilization as NRT-ATL lands around 345p, which gives a quick two hour turn time to LIM. With ATL-LIM-ATL being a one plane rotation, it gets back in the morning and then can go to TechOps and be used back to NRT or to JNB.

That's what I thought...

deltairlines wrote:
No chance a 77L would be used to GRU right now (aside from one-off swaps; I actually had a flight about a year ago get swapped on ATL-GRU from a 767-300 to a 777-200LR. Was quite happy about that since I like the business class seat more on the 777 than the 767. Either way, a normal schedule would require 2 77Ls on any GRU route, and there's not enough in the system to sacrifice it; let alone it's not needed (if they want similar capacity, they can easily use an A330-300 which has 3 less business seats and 5 more coach seats and can easily do ATL-GRU with a full payload).

In fact I've seen their A333 around GRU several times in past months, certainly swaps.
However this 767-77L swap you luckily have been on is exactly what I was talking about
 
airlinedork
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:15 pm

ojjunior wrote:
Past few days, enjoying my flight app, I've seen Delta's 77L flying to S.American medium haul routes like SJU and LIM.
Any reason for that? A premium ULH bird flying to those "non-premium" destinations?
Or maybe just in order not to leave the plane grounded for hours during stopovers?
May DL could send it to GRU sometimes, I'll probably buy a ticket just to fly it, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on that... :D


Caaaaaaaaarrrrrrrggggggggggoooooooooooo! LOTS OF IT
 
deltairlines
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:17 pm

In fact I've seen their A333 around GRU several times in past months, certainly swaps.
However this 767-77L swap you luckily have been on is exactly what I was talking about


A330-300 was scheduled on ATL-GRU for the Northern Winter schedule this past year (was October-March). GRU still sees an A330-200 3x/wk from DTW. ATL is a 767-400 til end of schedule; MCO/JFK are now 767-300s.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:22 pm

airlinedork wrote:
Caaaaaaaaarrrrrrrggggggggggoooooooooooo! LOTS OF IT
PacificBeach88 wrote:
Um, I'll take a one word stab at it.......: CARGO??


It seems like cargo revenue LIM-ATL is pretty good to pay the expenses for a 77L to do that...
 
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Stitch
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:45 pm

What is the "normal" equipment for these missions?

If it is the 777-200ER, the 777-200LR is probably no less efficient (might even be a bit more efficient thanks to the better aero and improvements to the higher-thrust GE90s) and if the frame would normally be sitting around during that time, it improves aircraft utilization.

If it is an A330-300, then it could be a combination of more people and cargo traffic.
 
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sunrisevalley
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:32 pm

ojjunior wrote:
airlinedork wrote:

It seems like cargo revenue LIM-ATL is pretty good to pay the expenses for a 77L to do that...


If it is asparagus the density is quite high , thus the billable weight is considerably more than the volume. At typical density , with a 200 passenger load they could be carrying ~ 17t. A load of asparagus would be in the range of 22t.
 
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piedmont762
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:51 pm

It's not about efficiency, it's about cargo. Delta can make up whatever increased operational costs with Cargo
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:08 pm

Stitch wrote:
What is the "normal" equipment for these missions?

Well, you can find almost the entire Delta's fleet over there (738, 739, A319, A320, 752, 753, 763, 764...) and few sporadic 772 appearances, however pretty hard to see the 77L anyway, that's my point.
 
Sightseer
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:50 pm

ojjunior wrote:
Stitch wrote:
What is the "normal" equipment for these missions?

Well, you can find almost the entire Delta's fleet over there (738, 739, A319, A320, 752, 753, 763, 764...) and few sporadic 772 appearances,


LIM equipment bounces around a bit - in recent years I think the 752, 764, and A332 have all been used at one point or another, in addition to the 77E and currently the 77L. The 763 has probably been down there also.
 
odysseus9001
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:02 am

I used to fly that route as a passenger on DL a lot and flew on it April this year. My Peruvian wife is flying it 3 times this year. DL has flown all widebody types on the route except the 747 (I'm not sure about the 333, but they have flown the 332 there). They did fly the 777 briefly before, back in Northern Winter 2009-2010.

The flight is generally full of passengers, though the fare has bounced around over the years consistent with the economy and fuel prices. I rarely see it with a lot of empty seats <shrug>. The 777 flights I flew in April this year were pretty full. My wife and I have started springing for the business class tickets this year, which we never used to do.

One thing to note about Lima is that most flights leave the US in the late afternoon and return from Lima late the same night, which is different than some of the deeper South America routes.

J
 
odysseus9001
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:03 am

By the way, I know the flew the 757 there many years ago. But since fall 2008, when I started flying as a passenger on the route, its always been a widebody a/c.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:42 pm

ojjunior wrote:
Past few days, enjoying my flight app, I've seen Delta's 77L flying to S.American medium haul routes like SJU and LIM.
Any reason for that? A premium ULH bird flying to those "non-premium" destinations?
Or maybe just in order not to leave the plane grounded for hours during stopovers?
May DL could send it to GRU sometimes, I'll probably buy a ticket just to fly it, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on that... :D


And finally my dreams came true. Yesterday's GRU-ATL service was operated by N708DN
What a beauty!
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 04#b8c7c50

Maybe I'm overreacting but no other livery fits the 77L so good.
Don't know the reason but tks DL for the monday gift. :D
 
jlager2
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:08 pm

Really silly question coming up. Why is the 77L so much better at cargo capacity than other variants as opposed to say the 77W?
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:16 pm

So at one point DL was using the 77L on ATL-SJU?
 
f35
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying mzedium haul to S.America???

Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:01 pm

jlager2 wrote:
Really silly question coming up. Why is the 77L so much better at cargo capacity than other variants as opposed to say the 77W?


In short it has the wings, engines, and fuel tanks of a 77W with the body of a 772. Therefore, it has tons of muscle, pun intended, with a lightweight body.

Edit: clarification
 
N312RC
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:07 pm

No 777 service to SJU. The plane you're probably seeing on flightaware etc. is the occasional tech stop JNB-ATL.
 
Flighty
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:32 pm

About how many tons of cargo could a 77L carry on the route?
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:38 pm

N312RC wrote:
No 777 service to SJU. The plane you're probably seeing on flightaware etc. is the occasional tech stop JNB-ATL.


You sure? IIRC I remember DL running 763s and 777 to SJU and Florida Cities 2000 when they first got them. First as pilot training and then later in between Europe trips...
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:26 pm

N312RC wrote:
No 777 service to SJU. The plane you're probably seeing on flightaware etc. is the occasional tech stop JNB-ATL.

If you look closer you'll see this is the exact reason for this topic.
I don't know how to search historical data but I'm sure DLs 77L were regular at SJU for several days, maybe just not to keep it sunbathing in tarmac at ATL but they did. And round trip, so, not JNB stopover.
Maybe not a regular but surely been there numerous times recently...
 
jlager2
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying mzedium haul to S.America???

Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:26 pm

f35 wrote:
jlager2 wrote:
Really silly question coming up. Why is the 77L so much better at cargo capacity than other variants as opposed to say the 77W?


In short it has the wings, engines, and fuel tanks of a 77W with the body of a 772. Therefore, it has tons of muscle, pun intended, with a lightweight body.

Edit: clarification


Thanks and simple response :)
 
N312RC
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:02 pm

All I am saying is that if it was there, it was never regularly scheduled. It was/is one of the following:

1) A charter
2) An equipment substitution
3) A tech stop from JNB.

Other than when they were first ordered when it was brief, they've never been 'scheduled' into SJU, ala LIM.
 
DLL1011
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:09 pm

It comes down to Cargo, the 767 is weight restricted and the 777 can take the cargo and passangers.
 
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HIA350
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:32 pm

just like the A300 did for american back in the days
 
Viscount724
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:04 am

AC uses all 6 of their 77Ls on some medium haul transatlantic flights in addition to longhauls to Asia and Australia to maximize utilization. A flight arriving YYZ from HKG or PEK (or the SYD-YVR-YYZ flight) can continue to Europe after a short turnaround. Same thing on the return. If the flight had to sit in YYZ until the next westbound longhaul it would mean a much longer turnaround, even overnight in the case of the Asia nonstops.

I checked Flightradar24 and all 6 of their 77Ls have made at least one, sometimes several, rotations YYZ-FRA-YYZ in the past week (one YYZ-FRA flight is scheduled as a 77L) plus occasional YYZ-LHR-LHR rotations. Some have also appeared on YVR-YYZ-YVR (in addition to the regular daily 77L used on that domestic sector that continues to/from SYD).
 
smi0006
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:30 am

I think most airlines do this between long haul sectors for feed, and utilisation. E.g. NZ aircraft from North America, South Americ and LHR land then operate 3-4hr flight to AU, then back at night to return to the states and NAM/SAM.

QR/EY/EK use 787/777/380 around the gulf between longhaul banks of flights.
 
xdlx
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:28 am

From the day DL decided CARGO was not important in SJU the WB are gone all you get is 738/9/A319/20 when a 757 shows up there is a party!
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:09 am

The 77L is sometimes more efficient than the 77E, even on shorter routes.

The only ULH route that DL fly 77L on is JNB-ATL. Many of their other 777 routes regularly switch between 77E and 77L, as their efficiencies are actually quite similar.

EY and QR use 77L on most of their longest routes. I find it interesting that the only times EK flies 77L ULH are DXB-FLL and DXB-SEA. (LAX second flight was recently discontinued.)
 
Gemuser
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:32 am

Irehdna wrote:
The 77L is sometimes more efficient than the 77E, even on shorter routes.

The only ULH route that DL fly 77L on is JNB-ATL. Many of their other 777 routes regularly switch between 77E and 77L, as their efficiencies are actually quite similar.

EY and QR use 77L on most of their longest routes. I find it interesting that the only times EK flies 77L ULH are DXB-FLL and DXB-SEA. (LAX second flight was recently discontinued.)

EK also fly the B77L on DXB-AKL.

Gemuser
 
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LamboAston
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:17 am

Gemuser wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
The 77L is sometimes more efficient than the 77E, even on shorter routes.

The only ULH route that DL fly 77L on is JNB-ATL. Many of their other 777 routes regularly switch between 77E and 77L, as their efficiencies are actually quite similar.

EY and QR use 77L on most of their longest routes. I find it interesting that the only times EK flies 77L ULH are DXB-FLL and DXB-SEA. (LAX second flight was recently discontinued.)

EK also fly the B77L on DXB-AKL.

Gemuser

Used to. Haven't for months, now A380.
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NearMiss
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Re: Why is Delta's 77L flying medium haul to S.America???

Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:29 am

And here I was wondering why we're only getting Delta's 76W at SCL. Maybe we're not sending that much cargo to the US?
"There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."

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