Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
LeCoqFrancais
Topic Author
Posts: 418
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:03 pm

Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:29 am

U.S. regulators on Thursday dismissed an initial application from European discount airline Norwegian Air Shuttle A/S to establish a new long-haul operation in the U.K.
The U.S. Department of Transportation will continue to review the controversial carrier’s plan and is still to complete its approval for a license for the airline to establish a base in Ireland for long-haul flights.
Norwegian Air needs approval from U.S. authorities for overseas bases that operate flights to the U.S. The U.K. and Irish bases have come under criticism from some airlines and labor groups. Critics have said the airline is trying to circumvent some labor and tax rules with the overseas bases to lower its costs, charges Norwegian denies.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/norwegian-a ... 1467319820
-
I must admit that I am very disappointed with the US DOT.
Sébastien C. Tourillon
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6142
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:15 pm

I'm not surprised.

1. Election Year

2. Not politically popular

3. Democratic President trying to get Democratic successor

4. Republican Presidential candidate making lot of noise over regulations that allow the outsourcing of American jobs

Long story short, Left or Right, approval of this carrier (which allows outsourcing for its employees thus paying lower wages) is just a political loser in this very political year.
 
User avatar
piedmontf284000
Posts: 474
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:00 pm

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:47 pm

I wonder if this will have any effect on Norwegian's Caribbean flights out of BWI, JFK, and BOS?
 
spokemd
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 11:39 pm

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:59 pm

Could this have anything to do with the status of the UK since the Brexit vote?
kjot-kgai
 
Andy33
Posts: 2570
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:27 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
I wonder if this will have any effect on Norwegian's Caribbean flights out of BWI, JFK, and BOS?

As far as I know these flights were never planned to be flown using the UK AOC.
spokemd wrote:
Could this have anything to do with the status of the UK since the Brexit vote?

But the status of the UK hasn't changed yet. It hasn't even started changing. Firstly this was an advisory referendum, not a binding one; secondly nothing starts happening until the UK government formally notify the rest of the EU that they intend to leave, which they show no sign of doing for several months at least and might not be possible without a formal Act of Parliament to authorise it; then there are two years to negotiate a settlement during which the UK remains a full member of the EU; one of the possible settlements is that the effective status of the UK in the European Common Aviation Market remains largely unaffected; and finally if the UK leaves the EU without remaining in the Common Aviation Market, Norwegian will have problems as it will be affected by foreign ownership rules.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18279
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:45 pm

How many divisions does Norwegian have now?
I don't take responsibility at all
 
etops1
Posts: 854
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:26 pm

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:46 pm

This is great news !
 
AndyEastMids
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:24 pm

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:05 pm

I think its about time for the UK government to retaliate, and to heck with the air services agreement. United want an extra daily frequency LAX-LHR - we need to start saying No in return, until a legal / licenced UK airline is permitted rightful access to the US market.
 
bwvilla
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:27 pm

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:20 pm

From the UK perspective, this is another reason why UK would be better off to stay in the EU.

The current EU-US bilateral agreement is hugely skewed in favour of the US; whose airlines are free to fly point to point within Europe, whilst EU airlines don't have similar rights to fly point to point within the US.

That agreement needs to be cancelled ASAP by the EU and renegotiated on a better basis. The UK cannot play hardball on this by themselves, as hub traffic will just move to one of the neighbouring EU countries.
lhr-utc-lhr-sin-bru-cgn-sin
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:36 pm

How much intra-Europe flying by U.S. airlines is happening now, anyway?
 
Andy33
Posts: 2570
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:08 pm

chrisnh wrote:
How much intra-Europe flying by U.S. airlines is happening now, anyway?


Passenger - none at all. Freight carriers do operate though, and the agreement covers both passenger and freight.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 11060
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:16 pm

AndyEastMids wrote:
I think its about time for the UK government to retaliate, and to heck with the air services agreement. United want an extra daily frequency LAX-LHR - we need to start saying No in return, until a legal / licenced UK airline is permitted rightful access to the US market.

Of course in doing so you are just hurting the UK airlines far more than the US carriers.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:49 pm

bwvilla wrote:
From the UK perspective, this is another reason why UK would be better off to stay in the EU.

The current EU-US bilateral agreement is hugely skewed in favour of the US; whose airlines are free to fly point to point within Europe, whilst EU airlines don't have similar rights to fly point to point within the US.

That agreement needs to be cancelled ASAP by the EU and renegotiated on a better basis. The UK cannot play hardball on this by themselves, as hub traffic will just move to one of the neighbouring EU countries.


US carriers can only operate 5th freedom services on international routes within the EU. They don't have purely domestic cabotage rights. It's the same for EU-based carriers in the U.S. They have unlimited 5th freedom rights to any other countries beyond the U.S. (subject to having the same rights from the 3rd country), but no cabotage rights on domestic sectors.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:07 am

AndyEastMids wrote:
I think its about time for the UK government to retaliate, and to heck with the air services agreement. United want an extra daily frequency LAX-LHR - we need to start saying No in return, until a legal / licenced UK airline is permitted rightful access to the US market.

***************************************************************************************************************************
Norwegian Air ?? The British are going to war over Norwegian Air?? You're kidding right? Norwegian is trying to skirt employment laws and the BRITISH are going to risk their favored status with the USA for THEM?? Does that make sense to YOU?? Because it really makes no sense to ME!! If Norwegian NEVER comes to the USA?? It's going to hurt WHOM?? NOBODY!!! It'll be just another SCAM that didn't happen!! Give it a break! Are the going to just deny United? What about American, and Delta? Why can't they fly from NORWAY??
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5755
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:22 am

bwvilla wrote:
From the UK perspective, this is another reason why UK would be better off to stay in the EU.

The current EU-US bilateral agreement is hugely skewed in favour of the US; whose airlines are free to fly point to point within Europe, whilst EU airlines don't have similar rights to fly point to point within the US.

That agreement needs to be cancelled ASAP by the EU and renegotiated on a better basis. The UK cannot play hardball on this by themselves, as hub traffic will just move to one of the neighboring EU countries.


Well as far as if Britain had been better off staying in, yes I agree, however the fat lady has sung.

For better or worse they are stuck with the decisions that the old guard of the population made, those that grew up in an independent U.K. are very happy.

Those who grew up in the E.U. their lives have been turned upside down & I hope they are able to correct a terrible wrong in the near term.

As far as the intra Europe flying, while it may be possible on a fifth freedom basis, it isn't done often (like it used to be, we used o fly TW FCO-ATH when we needed to go to Greece) & it's still between two countries. In the states, that are united, are all in one country & no country allows foreign airlines to opeprate local flights with local passengers within the country, unless it's a depressed country that just needs air service & hasn't the means to start an airline, like in Africa.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
TheF15Ace
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:27 am

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:58 am

strfyr51 wrote:
If Norwegian NEVER comes to the USA?? It's going to hurt WHOM?? NOBODY!!!


How about hundreds of Americans who fly them to Europe?
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:05 am

This does not mean the permit is rejected. It is only a rejection of the exemption request, which would have allowed NAUK to fly to the US while the permit was being considered. This is only done when the issues relating to the permit are clear-cut and no objection is expected. Since the NAUK application raises the same questions that the NAI application raised, it should have been obvious that the exemption was going to be denied. The permit will now move through the normal process where the various issues can be sorted out.

Nothing out of the ordinary here.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
hayzel777
Posts: 646
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:18 am

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:47 am

etops1 wrote:
This is great news !


Thats because the union has been lying to u and u listen to them.
 
Someone83
Posts: 5002
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:19 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
I wonder if this will have any effect on Norwegian's Caribbean flights out of BWI, JFK, and BOS?


They are not operativ by the UK AOC, so doesn't affect this

Norwegian's Norwegian AOC has permit to fly to the US, which they use today. The issue is that they cannot use this to countries that Norway hasn't bilaterals or open skies with, think LGW, MAD or BCN to Asia, Africa or South America

So the irony is that by rejecting this AOC Norwegian is "forced" to use their capacity to the US instead.....
 
Andy33
Posts: 2570
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Norwegian Air Shuttle’s UK division denied interim flying permit from US DOT

Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:00 am

Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian's Norwegian AOC has permit to fly to the US, which they use today. The issue is that they cannot use this to countries that Norway hasn't bilaterals or open skies with, think LGW, MAD or BCN to Asia, Africa or South America

So the irony is that by rejecting this AOC Norwegian is "forced" to use their capacity to the US instead.....


I don't quite understand this. The United States has refused to grant Norwegian an exemption which would have allowed it to fly from the UK to the USA on its UK AOC while the full application is being considered. It is already flying from the UK to the USA using its Norwegian AOC, which is perfectly legal and permitted. The UK government has granted Norwegian an AOC and hasn't objected to them flying anywhere.
Why would any decision of the US Department of Transport have any effect on flights by a non-US airline between places that aren't in the US and don't use US airspace?
The only thing that would prevent Norwegian flying from the UK or Spain to countries in Asia, Africa or South America is the terms of the Air Service Agreement between the UK or Spain and the country they want to fly to. Some agreements will specify the number of airlines that are allowed on the route, or the number of flights (so an extra one might not be permitted), some may have definitions of allowed airlines that require partial or full ownership in one or other of the countries served. Of countries in Asia, South America, and Africa, so far only Israel and Morocco have implemented full Open Skies agreements with the EU, though others are at an advanced stage.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos