mariner wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

If routes need to remain for political and social purposes then there is no other option except for the govt to subsidise the route, it's what happens in Norway, public service obligation routes are bid on by airlines and the govt picks up the tab.

Not in my book.

I said I agree that Air NZ should be run as a commercial organisation - use it or lose it - but it isn't owned as a free market corporation and a very real part of its success, good times and bad, is maintaining the goodwill of the market, "goodwill" being a quantifiable element of any successful company's balance sheet.

The thing is though, it is owned as a "free market corporation" and it was when it was 83% owned by the NZ Government just as it is now with the NZ Government holding a significantly reduced shareholding. While I would be the first to say that Air NZ owes the government a debt of gratitude for ensuring it's survival, the government in many ways holds some responsibility for setting the stage for the disaster that was Brieley's ownership to start with.

The reality is there is no "kiwi share" ala Telecom back in the day. The government and therefore NZ taxpayer have very much profited from their investment in what is a wholly commercial organisation.

The goodwill you speak of, and it's commercial importance is why I think their will be a third way and that Air NZ will not necessarily abandon a lot of routes when the Q300 reaches its end of life. The simple reality is that there is money to be made and there are economies of scale that are leveraged in providing services back through the regions.

While I can see it happening I think a repeat of history where Air NZ pulls out and then subsequently buys into 3rd level operators would be, well, just silly.

Sichuan Airlines have today applied for 3 weekly A330 services from CTU to AKL from December 2016.

Here is a list of proposed new services so far this year:

Sichuan Airlines 3 weekly CTU-AKL A332 from Dec 2016
Hainan Airlines 3 weekly SZX-AKL A332 from Nov 2016
Tianjin AIrlines 3 weekly TSN-CKG-AKL A332 from Dec 2016

Chinese airline expansions in Australia are getting even more ridiculous with recent return fares from CTU-MEL for example as low as NZ$470. With even the smallest regional carriers getting widebody aircraft, this competition will only get worse. It just goes to show that NZ have made the right decision to not open CTU but increase PVG services as fares from Tier 1 cities such as Shanghai and Beijing are still relatively high.

xiaotung wrote:

Here is a list of proposed new services so far this year:

Sichuan Airlines 3 weekly CTU-AKL A332 from Dec 2016
Hainan Airlines 3 weekly SZX-AKL A332 from Nov 2016
Tianjin AIrlines 3 weekly TSN-CKG-AKL A332 from Dec 2016

Hopefully they aren't all planning to be in AKL at the same time/day, makes me wonder when AKL is going to start an slot system and stick to it rather than the your all welcome.

I wonder if AKL gets anymore crowed if they would review there ruling on no passenger flights into NZWP. You could almost build an ChinaPort out of it an re-dirrect some of these services to NZWP.

SelandiaBaru wrote:

The thing is though, it is owned as a "free market corporation" and it was when it was 83% owned by the NZ Government just as it is now with the NZ Government holding a significantly reduced shareholding. While I would be the first to say that Air NZ owes the government a debt of gratitude for ensuring it's survival, the government in many ways holds some responsibility for setting the stage for the disaster that was Brieley's ownership to start with.

It's still a majority holding, "we" own it, but yes, sure. The privatisation of the airline was a disaster waiting to happen, as one-eyed as privatising the railways - which were also bought back.

There is often a divide between provincial communities and government/big cities which can be destructive. Winston Peters, for example, thrives on it because he understands it and plays on it.

SelandiaBaru wrote:

The government and therefore NZ taxpayer have very much profited from their investment in what is a wholly commercial organisation.

Again, sure they have. I'm talking about the subjective belief, not the objective reality.

SelandiaBaru wrote:

The goodwill you speak of, and it's commercial importance is why I think their will be a third way and that Air NZ will not necessarily abandon a lot of routes when the Q300 reaches its end of life. The simple reality is that there is money to be made and there are economies of scale that are leveraged in providing services back through the regions

Agreed, again. But if any of that requires the third level airlines to take over some routes, then attitudes to those third level airlines, by the government as much as Air NZ, have to be a little more embracing.

mariner

[quote="zkojq"]Introducing ZK-NZI which has now been painted:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sabian404/28269584221

and ZK-NZJ which just rolled out of the factory a few days ago:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/woodysaer ... 8392795466

I saw her on the flight line on the 19th. She was near the delivery centre next to 2 EY and 3 BA 789s. I couldn't help but recall the first time I was at Everett OKD was about to be delivered and OKE was in the hangar being assembled.

And also regarding AA being late - they are just that; late - and nothing to do with AKL. LAX has equally got massive constraints on that UA/AA/DL side. I had two gate holds upward of 40mins until a gate freed up and also had a third departure delayed for the same reason. They wouldn't want a delay there because it has such massive implications. I'd also add my LAS flight was delayed to await spot in landing queue at LAX and they did similar thing in MSP...

An interesting addition to NZ skies this summer! Asiana will operate a weekly charter to CHC

OZ6013 ICN1830 – 1020+1CHC 77L 5
OZ6023 CHC1220 – 2040ICN 77L 6

Reported by Airline Route

Jetstar315 wrote:

In reply to PA515 ZK-NZI was scheduled for a C-3 (Customer Acceptance) flight on 24 Jul which has been pushed back to 25 Jul.
All things 787 is showing departure from Paine on 28 Jul (and they're usually very accurate) so surprised to see departure on FR24 as 26 Jul!!

A C3 is not usual. There must be a few issues to be resolved.

I've been away a couple of months, and have discovered this new website is so many layers of hideous I don't know where to start. Seriously?

That put me in a toxic mood, then I discovered NZ have released another 5 mins of cringeworthiness:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/news/a ... d=11680976

http://www.christchurchairport.co.nz/en ... et-demand/

"From December 2 to January 28, Asiana Airlines will fly a weekly service between Incheon, Seoul and Christchurch Airport, to bring 2500 visitors to the South Island."

More good news for CHC! Apparently OZ will be using a 77E on the service

zkncj wrote:

Hopefully they aren't all planning to be in AKL at the same time/day, makes me wonder when AKL is going to start an slot system and stick to it rather than the your all welcome.

AKL has been a Level 3 Slot Coordinated Airport for some years now. ACL International took over the coordination in NS13. At this stage the coordination sits around the International Terminal, which is no real surprise.

http://www.acl-uk.org/acl-international ... spx?id=148

QF are increasing flights to CHC this summer, including a resumption of CHC-MEL flights.

Flights between Brisbane and Christchurch services will grow from three per week to daily from 30 October, timed to connect with Qantas’ Asian and US network via Brisbane.

QF134 CHC0615 - 0705BNE 73H D
QF135 BNE0805 - 1440CHC 73H D

A new daily Melbourne-Christchurch service will begin from 4 December, timed to connect with onward flights to Dubai, London and a wide range of European destinations.

QF132 CHC2005 - 2200MEL 73H D
QF133 MEL2345 - 0505CHC 73H D

Any updates as to when ZK-NZI is likely to land in Auckland?

CHCalfonzo wrote:

QF133 MEL2345 - 0505CHC 73H D

That red-eye flight is going to be very popular with the crew! /s

zkojq wrote:

That red-eye flight is going to be very popular with the crew! /s

Its the Qantas Group Special, Qantas and Jetstar both have the same into AKL.

QF151 MEL-AKL 2335-0510 738
JQ217 MEL-AKL 2335-0451 A320

Why both Jetstar and Qantas both needed an red-eye to AKL at the same time is beyond me. Wouldn't an JQ 788 or QF 332 be better suited?

zkojq wrote:

Any updates as to when ZK-NZI is likely to land in Auckland?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ6094 has ZK-NZI departing PAE at 1810 PDT Wed 27 Jul and arriving AKL 0243 NZST Fri 29 Jul. (departs PAE at 1310 NZST today).

PA515

Also, there's a change to the delivery date for ZK-NZJ in the http://nyc787.blogspot.com 'Full Production Table'
It was 16 Aug and is now 15 Sep. So, a two week delay for NZI and now a four week delay for NZJ. Will there be an even longer delay for NZK?
The Premium Economy seats are made by Zodiac ...........

PA515

My view is that these revised deliveries are probably at the request of NZ. They have no need for them any earlier.

zkncj wrote:

zkojq wrote:

That red-eye flight is going to be very popular with the crew! /s

Its the Qantas Group Special, Qantas and Jetstar both have the same into AKL.

QF151 MEL-AKL 2335-0510 738
JQ217 MEL-AKL 2335-0451 A320

Why both Jetstar and Qantas both needed an red-eye to AKL at the same time is beyond me. Wouldn't an JQ 788 or QF 332 be better suited?

Yes and for both carriers the flight is the least popular one in the network for crews (though in Jetstar's case they also have red-eyes from MEL to WLG and CHC). For PAX the timing is quite handy. I've done the flight a couple of times. You can spend a full day in Melbourne, go out for dinner, can head to the airport afterwards without having to be in a rush. Once you land in Auckland you're just ahead of all the long haul arrivals (assuming that the flight is ontime) and can get through the queues at Customs ahead of them; once airside you can beat the traffic home. I'm actually kinda surprised that the only TASPAC overnight flights that Air New Zealand does are up to the Islands.

Other than maintenance, JQ doesn't really overnight 787s at MEL. They're all busy heading up to HKT/DPS/SIN/BKK or whereever. I'm sure Qantas has some spare A330 capacity though.

zkojq wrote:

Why both Jetstar and Qantas both needed an red-eye to AKL at the same time is beyond me. Wouldn't an JQ 788 or QF 332 be better suited?

Yes and for both carriers the flight is the least popular one in the network for crews (though in Jetstar's case they also have red-eyes from MEL to WLG and CHC). For PAX the timing is quite handy. I've done the flight a couple of times. You can spend a full day in Melbourne, go out for dinner, can head to the airport afterwards without having to be in a rush. Once you land in Auckland you're just ahead of all the long haul arrivals (assuming that the flight is ontime) and can get through the queues at Customs ahead of them; once airside you can beat the traffic home.
[/quote]

Personally don't think I could bring my self to traveling on an 4 hour overnight flight on JetStar, doesn't sound an an fun time. On the Qantas flight do they do an meal service? its an return duty starting off in AKL? With carry-on only with NZ is pretty essay to take the 1830 home to AKL, without only needing to be there at 1730.

zkojq wrote:

I'm actually kinda surprised that the only TASPAC overnight flights that Air New Zealand does are up to the Islands.

The NZ 1830-1930 East Coast departures seem pretty well liked, to the point that they are wide-bodies on the busier days of the week.

ZK-NZI has arrived

LamboAston wrote:

ZK-NZI has arrived

Not according to FR24 and flightaware.

Flightradar24 has ZK-NZI having departed PAE at 2047 PDT and due into AKL at 0440 NZST tomorrow.

http://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ6094/a7c059f

PA515

I misunderstood FR24 https://www.flightradar24.com/reg/zk-nzi

[/quote]I fly out of HLZ a fair bit and most flights are almost full. I would love to see jet flights to at least CHC at some point. 2hr on the ATR is annoying when AKL-CHC is only 1.15[/quote]

Q400 would fix that, just saying...

zkncj wrote:

zkojq wrote:

Why both Jetstar and Qantas both needed an red-eye to AKL at the same time is beyond me. Wouldn't an JQ 788 or QF 332 be better suited?

Yes and for both carriers the flight is the least popular one in the network for crews (though in Jetstar's case they also have red-eyes from MEL to WLG and CHC). For PAX the timing is quite handy. I've done the flight a couple of times. You can spend a full day in Melbourne, go out for dinner, can head to the airport afterwards without having to be in a rush. Once you land in Auckland you're just ahead of all the long haul arrivals (assuming that the flight is ontime) and can get through the queues at Customs ahead of them; once airside you can beat the traffic home.

Personally don't think I could bring my self to traveling on an 4 hour overnight flight on JetStar, doesn't sound an an fun time. On the Qantas flight do they do an meal service? its an return duty starting off in AKL? With carry-on only with NZ is pretty essay to take the 1830 home to AKL, without only needing to be there at 1730.

I'm booked on a JQ MEL-AKL red eye in October for the final part of a QF status run. Tried to get on the MEL-WLG sector but decided to go via AKL as it was cheaper

Yea all QF seats are full service. Luggage, meals, movies etc... It's been the selling point of their advertising over competitors across the ditch

zkncj wrote:

Personally don't think I could bring my self to traveling on an 4 hour overnight flight on JetStar, doesn't sound an an fun time. On the Qantas flight do they do an meal service? its an return duty starting off in AKL? With carry-on only with NZ is pretty essay to take the 1830 home to AKL, without only needing to be there at 1730.

I should clarify that it's the QF flight I've been on, not the JQ one. There is food on the QF flight, but its not a full breakfast/dinner. It is a return duty from Auckland (QF156 is the outbound flight) though at present the red-eye has been operated by a mainline crew + aircraft who return to MEL the following morning (QF152). Not a particularly popular duty for them either, I'd imagine.

zkncj wrote:

The NZ 1830-1930 East Coast departures seem pretty well liked, to the point that they are wide-bodies on the busier days of the week.

That's true, though its a pain having to be at the airport by ~1715, especially if you're planning on doing a full day's work at BNE/SYD/MEL.

zkojq wrote:

NZ1 wrote:

That's interesting; as the engines on the -500/-600 are identical

PW127F vs PW127M?

Both the -500 and -600 are fitted with the PW127M engine in the Mt Cook fleet.

So I did fly out on MVF and back on MCX, both flights in seat 2D. I didn't find it a big difference, but had the feeling that the -600 is just a tiny bit quieter. What I noticed though was how old and worn MVF already looked. That was a bit of a surprise to me. Anyway, both flights were nice, and the ATR is certainly my preferred choice, over the DHC-8s...

Cheers
micha

Has ZK-NCL been withdrawn? It's last flight was NZ108 SYD-AKL on 26 July.

PA515

PA515 wrote:

Has ZK-NCL been withdrawn? It's last flight was NZ108 SYD-AKL on 26 July.

PA515

FlightAware usually has the scheduled flights of a tail listed as far ahead as 24 to 30 hours. But nothing scheduled ahead for -NCL

ZKSUJ wrote:

I fly out of HLZ a fair bit and most flights are almost full. I would love to see jet flights to at least CHC at some point. 2hr on the ATR is annoying when AKL-CHC is only 1.15[/quote]

Q400 would fix that, just saying... [/quote]

I would LOVE the Q400 but NZ said in the past they would not get them due to the additional fuel penalty and feared inter-service competition between the Q400's and the ATR72 fleet.

Even if the Q400 is the perfect plane for HLZ-CHC, DUN, ZQN etc.

77west wrote:

I would LOVE the Q400 but NZ said in the past they would not get them due to the additional fuel penalty and feared inter-service competition between the Q400's and the ATR72 fleet.

Even if the Q400 is the perfect plane for HLZ-CHC, DUN, ZQN etc.

And knowing NZ, if JQ was ever to chuck an Q400 on HLZ-CHC NZ would just match it with an A320 untill the other party was gone.

I always wondered how the E-Jets would go on those medium-length medium-demand routes like DUD-AKL, DUD-WLG, or HLZ/CHC.
I thought it might have been possible if NZ and VA had got tighter, then they could have rotated some of VAs E190s onto NZ domestic routes via thinner international sectors like BNE/DUD.

On a semi related note to opening times, what time is that departure area roller door supposed to go up? Done a few QF140's and it always stays down until 0430. QF Lounge advertises an opening time of 0400 but you can't even get there.

axio wrote:

I always wondered how the E-Jets would go on those medium-length medium-demand routes like DUD-AKL, DUD-WLG, or HLZ/CHC.
I thought it might have been possible if NZ and VA had got tighter, then they could have rotated some of VAs E190s onto NZ domestic routes via thinner international sectors like BNE/DUD.

Years ago when DJ had domestic in New Zealand, they brought an E190 over for an tour around the regions. But then nothing really came from it, there was even an couple of E190 painted up as Pacific Blue.

The A320 is an pretty good fit on AKL-DUD, it seems hard to find an spare seats on these flights along with the cargo capacity that allows extra revenue.

AKL-NSN probably would do well with an E190, didn't DJ take one into NSN durring the tour?

zkncj wrote:

axio wrote:

I always wondered how the E-Jets would go on those medium-length medium-demand routes like DUD-AKL, DUD-WLG, or HLZ/CHC.
I thought it might have been possible if NZ and VA had got tighter, then they could have rotated some of VAs E190s onto NZ domestic routes via thinner international sectors like BNE/DUD.

Years ago when DJ had domestic in New Zealand, they brought an E190 over for an tour around the regions. But then nothing really came from it, there was even an couple of E190 painted up as Pacific Blue.

As Virgin has discovered, it's tough to make money with the E190, the costs are quite high. The CASK is generally appreciably higher than the A319 which carries more pax. But iff you can fill the A320, which has a lower CASK then the A319, you'll make more money with the larger aircraft.

mariner

77west wrote:

ZKSUJ wrote:

I fly out of HLZ a fair bit and most flights are almost full. I would love to see jet flights to at least CHC at some point. 2hr on the ATR is annoying when AKL-CHC is only 1.15

Q400 would fix that, just saying... [/quote]

I would LOVE the Q400 but NZ said in the past they would not get them due to the additional fuel penalty and feared inter-service competition between the Q400's and the ATR72 fleet.

Even if the Q400 is the perfect plane for HLZ-CHC, DUN, ZQN etc.[/quote]

I was thinking AKL-IVC

FlightRadar shows AA83 about to touch down in AKL and shows AA82 taxing out but the times say it's landed in LAX. Does anyone know what what happened? Did it turn back last night?

Not a great start by AA

KRA is history and the Saab 340 is now in Air Chathams colours:



More about it, more photos, and Air Chat's livery generally here:

http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.co.nz

mariner

When does ZK-NZI enter service?

NZ1 wrote:

zkojq wrote:

NZ1 wrote:

That's interesting; as the engines on the -500/-600 are identical

PW127F vs PW127M?

Both the -500 and -600 are fitted with the PW127M engine in the Mt Cook fleet.

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

mariner wrote:

KRA is history and the Saab 340 is now in Air Chathams colours

Looks fantastic in the Air Chathams livery.

Maybe ZK-NCL is being replaced by ZK-NZI, which is also not in service yet.
Edit: FR24 is showing that -NZI will operate NZ175/6 to Perth and back on Tuesday

ZK-NCL has been sold to Icelandair according to planespotters - https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ew-Zealand

Apart from ZK-OKA, ZK-OKC, and ZK-OKE, are there any other B772s in the new livery?

LamboAston wrote:

ZK-NCL has been sold to Icelandair according to planespotters - https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ew-Zealand

Correct same as NCK.

LamboAston wrote:

Apart from ZK-OKA, ZK-OKC, and ZK-OKE, are there any other B772s in the new livery?

No just those 3 for now.

LamboAston wrote:

ZK-NCL has been sold to Icelandair according to planespotters - https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ew-Zealand

All of Icelandair 763ER are ex-NZ builds, can probably see all 10x of the 767-319ER end up with them.

TF-ISO was ZK-NCN
TF-ISN was ZK-NCO

Guess it make sense for them to collect an set that started off with an single airline.

LamboAston wrote:

Apart from ZK-OKA, ZK-OKC, and ZK-OKE, are there any other B772s in the new livery?

When is the remainder of the fleet going to the new livery?
I count 5x 772's and 1x 77W (OKP losing Hobbit) that need doing.
And if you care about the turboprops, then I count 3x 72-500's (MCW, MCX and MCY) and 12x Q300's (NEA-NEO)

I understand that last 3 ATR-500s will not be painted into the new livery as they will be the first to go once the next batch of ATR-600s starts to arrive.
Apparently they have already been earmarked for a USA company.

B787-9 ZK-NZI enters service today as NZ175 Auckland-Perth

Jetstar315 wrote:

I understand that last 3 ATR-500s will not be painted into the new livery as they will be the first to go once the next batch of ATR-600s starts to arrive.
Apparently they have already been earmarked for a USA company.

I wonder if anyone will end up in the Islands or with Air Chats? maybe could make an decent CV580 replacement, provided that ATR is will to provide the combi option is an refit?

Looking at some dates during April 2017 I noticed NZ101/102 and NZ105/108 AKL-SYD are showing as 789s. Taking a further look from the end of the NW schedules on March 25th the 763s are gone. NZ103/104 AKL-SYD is showing as a 763 on 26th March and the SYD-RAR flight shows a 763 still beyond then so its just a matter of what happens to that flight. I wonder if the last 1-2 aircraft might operate some ad hoc flights for a few weeks beyond March 25th?