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hayzel777
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Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:00 am

Planes being delivered now will feature 3-4-3 instead of their current 3-3-3!



http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... on-in-w16/
Last edited by KarelXWB on Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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KarelXWB
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Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:19 am

Eva Air goes 10-abreast on its newest 77W, adding 20 additional economy seats.

EVA Air's new 777-300ER features 3-4-3 in economy, 353-seater (C39K56Y258)


Source
https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status ... 9501935616
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celestar
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:38 am

Oh my God! Another one with 10 abreast. Wonder if CX would be the next?!!
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:57 am

It should be removed from 5 star airline category. It isn't unexpected, but now the rot has infultrated the last region with 9 abreast it may well finish off the last of the 9 abreast airlines who were in the regional cluster. SQ/CX/BR/CA
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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rotating14
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:43 am

Just a matter of time before it's the new regular.
 
superjeff
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:05 pm

Unfortunately, it IS the new regular. I think you can probably count on the fingers of two hands the remaining airlines who have stayed with 9 across in Y; probably one hand for those that still have some planes with 9 across but which are converting to 10 across on new deliveries and remodeled interiors.

Also unfortunately, most people don't give a d&*.mn about our it; they just want their cheap fares, and don't ask about seat width, pitch etc.

For me the time has come that on a long flight I will do all I can to book at least Premium Y ("W") class to avoid what Y has become, at least on longer flights. ( I.e., 8+ hours.
 
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:44 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
It should be removed from 5 star airline category. It isn't unexpected, but now the rot has infultrated the last region with 9 abreast it may well finish off the last of the 9 abreast airlines who were in the regional cluster. SQ/CX/BR/CA


Qatar Airways is operating 10 ab economy cabins and they still have the 5 star airline status.
The next airline CEO :crossfingers:
 
Travelmanager
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:06 pm

rotating14 wrote:
Just a matter of time before it's the new regular.


Agreed. It may be inevitable. The economics of it are so attractive for the airlines and consumers have repeatedly shown that they are price driven for Y. The current thinking may be that if you value comfort over price, buy Y+. Everyone else can look forward to 10 across.

Current distribution makes it almost impossible to emphasize an airline with 9 across vs 10 when the buyer is comparing airlines. The vast majority of shoppers don't know who has what and thus, price is the differentiator and not product.
 
ChazPilot
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:07 pm

rotating14 wrote:
Just a matter of time before it's the new regular.


The question is, when will we start seeing 9 abreast in Y+ class in a 3/3/3 config?
 
AirbusA6
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:09 pm

It's possible that people with a small knowledge of airliners, will just choose not to fly on 777s
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Travelmanager
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:18 pm

ChazPilot wrote:
rotating14 wrote:
Just a matter of time before it's the new regular.


The question is, when will we start seeing 9 abreast in Y+ class in a 3/3/3 config?


I just saw an article on Airbus proposing 3-3-3 E+ on the A380.
https://www.runwaygirlnetwork.com/2016/ ... -airlines/
 
a380787
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:00 pm

Travelmanager wrote:
ChazPilot wrote:
rotating14 wrote:
Just a matter of time before it's the new regular.


The question is, when will we start seeing 9 abreast in Y+ class in a 3/3/3 config?


I just saw an article on Airbus proposing 3-3-3 E+ on the A380.
https://www.runwaygirlnetwork.com/2016/ ... -airlines/


It's not really that far-fetched when the same proposal calls for 11-abreast 3-5-3 in regular Y :? :?
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:24 pm

superjeff wrote:
For me the time has come that on a long flight I will do all I can to book at least Premium Y ("W") class to avoid what Y has become, at least on longer flights. ( I.e., 8+ hours.


To be honest, I would be fine with this IFF the product were at least close to proportionately priced.

Every single time I've priced out economy plus, however, it's been at least 50% higher cost, for 10-20% more real estate. Since I most frequently fly domestic, it's usually only a legroom increase, so the pricing I see is usually for only about 10% more room (34-35" vs 31-32").
 
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:06 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
superjeff wrote:
For me the time has come that on a long flight I will do all I can to book at least Premium Y ("W") class to avoid what Y has become, at least on longer flights. ( I.e., 8+ hours.


To be honest, I would be fine with this IFF the product were at least close to proportionately priced.

Every single time I've priced out economy plus, however, it's been at least 50% higher cost, for 10-20% more real estate. Since I most frequently fly domestic, it's usually only a legroom increase, so the pricing I see is usually for only about 10% more room (34-35" vs 31-32").


That's not actually 10% more room. Seat pitch is the *total* pitch, which includes the seat itself. That's why they can advertise that a slimline seat with 31" pitch is the same as a fat seat with 34".

Also the only room that really matters (lengthwise, I mean) is legroom - the amount of room between your butt and the back of the seat in front of you. You're actually getting about 30% more room there with a 35" pitch vs. 31".

For me it's worth it, almost always. Especially considering domestically, you generally also get priority boarding, priority security lanes and free drinks.

Internationally it's a different story. I've flown to Japan many times where the base fare is like $1,500 and the E+ upgrade is like $2,000! Not the total fare, the upgrade!

(Then again, sometimes they offer it at the gate for $400.)
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:55 am

spacecadet wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
superjeff wrote:
For me the time has come that on a long flight I will do all I can to book at least Premium Y ("W") class to avoid what Y has become, at least on longer flights. ( I.e., 8+ hours.


To be honest, I would be fine with this IFF the product were at least close to proportionately priced.

Every single time I've priced out economy plus, however, it's been at least 50% higher cost, for 10-20% more real estate. Since I most frequently fly domestic, it's usually only a legroom increase, so the pricing I see is usually for only about 10% more room (34-35" vs 31-32").


That's not actually 10% more room. Seat pitch is the *total* pitch, which includes the seat itself. That's why they can advertise that a slimline seat with 31" pitch is the same as a fat seat with 34".

Also the only room that really matters (lengthwise, I mean) is legroom - the amount of room between your butt and the back of the seat in front of you. You're actually getting about 30% more room there with a 35" pitch vs. 31".

For me it's worth it, almost always. Especially considering domestically, you generally also get priority boarding, priority security lanes and free drinks.


For purposes of constraints on pricing, the airline can fit ~10% fewer passengers in the same space on the plane, and their operating costs decline ever so slightly (fewer passengers and baggage to deal with, less weight, etc). So they have to average ~10% more revenue per seat for it to be worthwhile, ignoring the rest of the considerations.

For purposes of how much I'm willing to pay, 3-4 inches more legroom for, to use an example of a past trip, 9 hours does not justify $500+ price premiums. That's several days worth of my paycheck. I'm not willing to devote that much of my earnings to go from "very uncomfortable" to "moderately uncomfortable." If it were closer to $100 on a $1000 ticket, however, I'd be very interested.

Perhaps competition will push the prices that way as the market continues to evolve. In the meantime, I continue to check the pricing and find myself disappointed.

Still, I hope the airline strategy isn't to make economy so much worse that the consideration becomes "absolutely miserable" vs. "moderately uncomfortable."
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:27 pm

dubaiamman243 wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
It should be removed from 5 star airline category. It isn't unexpected, but now the rot has infultrated the last region with 9 abreast it may well finish off the last of the 9 abreast airlines who were in the regional cluster. SQ/CX/BR/CA


Qatar Airways is operating 10 ab economy cabins and they still have the 5 star airline status.


That doesn't mean it deserves it, more that it has a marketing/advertising budget that can negate the shortfalls of their product. ANY airline that has 10 across should be demoted by a full star. EK/QR/BR.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:14 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
ANY airline that has 10 across should be demoted by a full star. EK/QR/BR.


How wise or fair will it be to take away a star if and when only one type of aircraft in their fleet (in this case, namely, the b777-200/200er/200LR/300/300er) has 3-4-3 economy configuration?
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:44 pm

For me the time has come that on a long flight I will do all I can to book at least Premium Y ("W") class to avoid what Y has become, at least on longer flights. ( I.e., 8+ hours.[/quote]


Good for you if you can man!

The truth is, it's not the passengers' fault my friend. It's not "wanting the cheap fares" that are making the airlines shrink the size of the seats and the space in between these. It's the airlines wanting to capitalize and extrapolate the outmost out of their assets. It's about making the most, earning the most, extract every drop of juice out of the lemon...
The moment they figured they somehow could go down the route of 10-abreast on the 777 and make more money, they just did.
And to be honest, it's not that bad. Granted, 9-across is better... but is nowhere near as bad as 8-across on a 767, or 10-across on a DC-10.. Heck, it's probably better than 10-across on a TriStar. And still better than 9-abreast on an A300/310/330... So, all in all, not the inferno lots of people seems to be wanting to portray... And invariably we tend to forget that it's the legroom which will invariably make "THE" difference on an aircraft, especially on the longer flights... Legroom, more than anything else, is what defines comfort on a long(er) flight for the average flyer. This 9-vs-10 across in mostly an A.net fixation.

I am somewhat saddened that on A.net this always ends up in a tyrade against these "perceived" -or otherwise- poor stupid lesser beings who must be somewhere stomping their feet really hard and loud for these ever-cheaper fares....
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:00 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
It should be removed from 5 star airline category. It isn't unexpected, but now the rot has infultrated the last region with 9 abreast it may well finish off the last of the 9 abreast airlines who were in the regional cluster. SQ/CX/BR/CA


Please.
What stars? I mean, really..?
And go -pardon me- would give a damn if they remove a star from Eva? A.netters??
As if "normal" people (normal business travelers) chose flights solely based on a/c type or stars. Those who travel, more often than not, choose their flights based on their actual needs (time of the day, day of the week, airport), and not based on aircraft type, the rating of the airline, or the number of seats per row. Some of us, yes, can do that. When we can have the luxury of choice.....

And let's not forget, CX flew their 1011s with 10 abreast seating without much clamor or attention. So did PA, on trans-Pacific routes and European and South-American long hauls. The TriStar's cabin was m 5.77, the B777 is m5.87, so exactly 10 centimeters more (approx. 5 inches).
Garuda flew their DC-10s in 10-abreast throughout Asia for many years. Finnair flew some MD-11s with 10-abreast. And the MDDs were marginally narrower than the Lockeed birds.
Rest assured: if the DCs and 1011s were around these days, they would both be flying regularly with 10x in Y.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:05 pm

ChazPilot wrote:
rotating14 wrote:
Just a matter of time before it's the new regular.


The question is, when will we start seeing 9 abreast in Y+ class in a 3/3/3 config?


It's surely going to happen. 10x regular economy, and 9x with a bit more legroom and upgraded service, Y+.
Heck, seeing how some US carriers treat their Y+ products, I wouldn't be too shocked to see Y+ with 9-across on a 787, with simply more legroom and better service offered to customers.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:36 pm

It's surely going to happen. 10x regular economy, and 9x with a bit more legroom and upgraded service, Y+.


Isn't that a bit futuristic and pretty much unjust?

My prediction is, yes unfortunately 10x for the regular economy and 8x for the Y+ (in 2-4-2 lining, pitch no more than 38" max. 40")
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:48 am

SFO is the lucky one to first receive the new 10-abreast 77W.

EVA Air's new 353-seater 777-300ER (Economy 3-4-3) will serve San Francisco market from 01NOV16, initially on selected flights


https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status ... 1807220736
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:40 am

aerorobnz wrote:
It should be removed from 5 star airline category.


dubaiamman243 wrote:
Qatar Airways is operating 10 ab economy cabins and they still have the 5 star airline status.


aerorobnz wrote:
ANY airline that has 10 across should be demoted by a full star. EK/QR/BR.


I think we're making an erroneous assumption here that the number of stars is inversely proportional to the number of seats abreast in Y in a 777, when in reality it is more likely proportional to the number of notes in US$ in the payment to the source of the rating.

V/F
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rocketPower
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:06 pm

My yul-yyz flight just got upgauged from a A321 to a AC 77W and you immediately noticed the difference between the old config and this one. I'm broad shouldered with short legs so I have plenty of legroom, but my shoulders are encroaching the other seat. Luckily it's my wife next to me!

Aisles seem smaller too, getting knocked around a lot.

I would not want to fly this for 12 hours.

I guess I'll choose Airbus flights from now on until they ruin those as well!
rocketPower

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globalcabotage
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:37 am

It's simply extra seats. If flights are that full, go for the added revenue. If flights are less full, pull seats / align
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:18 am

No real surprise... most people won't realise or know that anything ever even changed.
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:59 am

mafaky wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
ANY airline that has 10 across should be demoted by a full star. EK/QR/BR.


How wise or fair will it be to take away a star if and when only one type of aircraft in their fleet (in this case, namely, the b777-200/200er/200LR/300/300er) has 3-4-3 economy configuration?

I don't see how an airline, Qatar, can call themselves a premium air carrier when their 777 fleet is 3-4-3 and 3-3-3 on their 787, which QR has a rather large Boeing fleet. On JL and ANA, the bulk of their 777 and 787 fleet are 3-3-3 and 2-4-2, respectively. Hell, QR has a lot of their fleet 2-2-2 in J.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
LY777
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:12 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
On JL and ANA, the bulk of their 777 and 787 fleet are 3-3-3 and 2-4-2, respectively. Hell, QR has a lot of their fleet 2-2-2 in J.


ANA's 777s are being retrofitted to 3-4-3 config :(
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:19 pm

LY777 wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
On JL and ANA, the bulk of their 777 and 787 fleet are 3-3-3 and 2-4-2, respectively. Hell, QR has a lot of their fleet 2-2-2 in J.


ANA's 777s are being retrofitted to 3-4-3 config :(


*and* their 787 are mostly 3-3-3 now. For 787s, pretty much only JAL is the only hold-out. Regarding QR and EK, very sizable portion of their fleets still feature 2-2-2 or 2-3-2 J, but the bloggers only focus on the latest and greatest just to increase clicks and "readership".
 
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AA777223
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:55 pm

And most of EKs fleet is 2-3-2 in J, and tons of people think they are the world's elite carrier. It's a shame how uninformed the public is.
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kengo
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:29 pm

a380787 wrote:
LY777 wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
On JL and ANA, the bulk of their 777 and 787 fleet are 3-3-3 and 2-4-2, respectively. Hell, QR has a lot of their fleet 2-2-2 in J.


ANA's 777s are being retrofitted to 3-4-3 config :(


*and* their 787 are mostly 3-3-3 now. For 787s, pretty much only JAL is the only hold-out. Regarding QR and EK, very sizable portion of their fleets still feature 2-2-2 or 2-3-2 J, but the bloggers only focus on the latest and greatest just to increase clicks and "readership".


On out bound flight, I flew JAL's 787 from Haneda to Gimpo(Korea), an 90 minute flight, and really enjoyed their 2-4-2 layout. On the return flight, I flew on KAL's 777 with 3-3-3 layout and it was fantastic, I guess a rare layout nowadays. Do a lot of flying between Japan and Korea, and I just hope both flag carriers stay with the current layout as long as possible.
 
ArsenalBOS
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:15 pm

oldannyboy wrote:


Good for you if you can man!

The truth is, it's not the passengers' fault my friend. It's not "wanting the cheap fares" that are making the airlines shrink the size of the seats and the space in between these. It's the airlines wanting to capitalize and extrapolate the outmost out of their assets. It's about making the most, earning the most, extract every drop of juice out of the lemon...
The moment they figured they somehow could go down the route of 10-abreast on the 777 and make more money, they just did.
And to be honest, it's not that bad. Granted, 9-across is better... but is nowhere near as bad as 8-across on a 767, or 10-across on a DC-10.. Heck, it's probably better than 10-across on a TriStar. And still better than 9-abreast on an A300/310/330... So, all in all, not the inferno lots of people seems to be wanting to portray... And invariably we tend to forget that it's the legroom which will invariably make "THE" difference on an aircraft, especially on the longer flights... Legroom, more than anything else, is what defines comfort on a long(er) flight for the average flyer. This 9-vs-10 across in mostly an A.net fixation.

I am somewhat saddened that on A.net this always ends up in a tyrade against these "perceived" -or otherwise- poor stupid lesser beings who must be somewhere stomping their feet really hard and loud for these ever-cheaper fares....


I agree completely. I hate this kind of move as much as everyone else here, but blaming passengers is too simplistic. I'd bet that for most leisure travelers (including myself), the choice isn't between Y or Y+ at 200% the fare, it's between Y or not going at all. There is just no way I can afford to fly myself (let alone the family) internationally at the normal Y+ fares, barring some sort of a miles upgrade or cheaper gate offer.
 
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SEPilot
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:23 pm

The articles say that TPE-SEA is flown in the winter sometimes by the 744. I thought that they had retired them all. I know they have retired the 747 Combis.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
S75752
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:38 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
The truth is, it's not the passengers' fault my friend. It's not "wanting the cheap fares" that are making the airlines shrink the size of the seats and the space in between these. It's the airlines wanting to capitalize and extrapolate the outmost out of their assets. It's about making the most, earning the most, extract every drop of juice out of the lemon...


Precisely this.
10 abreast 777's and 9 abreast 787's do not do anything to lower fares one bit on a given carrier; those fares will stay the same. All it does is increase profit margins.

The criticism of less-informed Y travellers is not that their pursuit of lower fares is pushing airlines to add more seats to lower fares (since that's completely wrong), the criticism is that less-informed Y travelers will still pay the exact same fare as before for the 10 abreast as long as it's the lowest simply because they don't pay attention, or don't know about Seatguru.

These are old airlines we're talking about here. Not LCC's. Though I guess Asia fares can feel like LCC fares anyways.
 
Flighty
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:15 pm

Upsetting because it means Boeing airplanes just aren't competitive, in terms of comfort.
 
winginit
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:20 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
It should be removed from 5 star airline category.


dubaiamman243 wrote:
Qatar Airways is operating 10 ab economy cabins and they still have the 5 star airline status.


So long as both carriers continue to pay the required 'fees' to Skytrax, both 5 star ratings will be maintained.

VirginFlyer wrote:
I think we're making an erroneous assumption here that the number of stars is inversely proportional to the number of seats abreast in Y in a 777, when in reality it is more likely proportional to the number of notes in US$ in the payment to the source of the rating.

V/F


Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

rotating14 wrote:
Just a matter of time before it's the new regular.


Wake up, this already is the new regular, and the carriers who are late to adopt will have the financial regrets. As always, the consumers have spoken with their wallets.
 
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:35 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
spacecadet wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:

To be honest, I would be fine with this IFF the product were at least close to proportionately priced.

Every single time I've priced out economy plus, however, it's been at least 50% higher cost, for 10-20% more real estate. Since I most frequently fly domestic, it's usually only a legroom increase, so the pricing I see is usually for only about 10% more room (34-35" vs 31-32").


That's not actually 10% more room. Seat pitch is the *total* pitch, which includes the seat itself. That's why they can advertise that a slimline seat with 31" pitch is the same as a fat seat with 34".

Also the only room that really matters (lengthwise, I mean) is legroom - the amount of room between your butt and the back of the seat in front of you. You're actually getting about 30% more room there with a 35" pitch vs. 31".

For me it's worth it, almost always. Especially considering domestically, you generally also get priority boarding, priority security lanes and free drinks.


For purposes of constraints on pricing, the airline can fit ~10% fewer passengers in the same space on the plane, and their operating costs decline ever so slightly (fewer passengers and baggage to deal with, less weight, etc). So they have to average ~10% more revenue per seat for it to be worthwhile, ignoring the rest of the considerations.

For purposes of how much I'm willing to pay, 3-4 inches more legroom for, to use an example of a past trip, 9 hours does not justify $500+ price premiums. That's several days worth of my paycheck. I'm not willing to devote that much of my earnings to go from "very uncomfortable" to "moderately uncomfortable." If it were closer to $100 on a $1000 ticket, however, I'd be very interested.

Perhaps competition will push the prices that way as the market continues to evolve. In the meantime, I continue to check the pricing and find myself disappointed.

Still, I hope the airline strategy isn't to make economy so much worse that the consideration becomes "absolutely miserable" vs. "moderately uncomfortable."



But some airlines also include a luggage upgrade along with the bigger seat and other amenities. On LH, premium economy comes with 2 free 50 pound bags on international flights. That could cancel out the weight savings of cutting one passenger per row.
 
crazyplane1234
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:27 pm

The way I see it, taking away a star because of reduced comfort wouldn't be fair, as it would cause the system to be biased against LCCs.
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:05 am

Why SEA? I mean HKG would be fine being a short hop and a busy route, but SEA is thrice weekly and doubt they ever had a full flight.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:52 am

As always, the consumers have spoken with their wallets.

[/quote]

I just hate this simplistic, silly kind of comments. It's so typical of a certain clique of narrow-minded A.netters. I find it so petty and childish.
Or perhaps you are simply wealthy enough to fly your entire family in J multiple times a year when you go on vacation (and I mean international, long haul)...? If so, good for you- but then, in this case, how good or bad the poor folks at the back are doing should be of no interest to you, right? For those who fly on a biz-jet, or really regularly fly F or J, airlines can happily cram in 11-abreast on a 777...it's no worry of theirs..
For said people -the lesser beings that is (those stupid consumers who decide with their wallets) the difference is between going, or not going at all. The difference between Y and Y+ is generally astronomical, it's not a mere few extra bucks...

Just to clarify, we are talking about international long-haul (or medium-haul international), J class, or Y+, vs discounted Y fares....
 
AirbusA6
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:30 am

If it's Boeing (777 10Y) I'm not going :-)
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
AMALH747430
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:41 pm

It's the same thing that happened with the checked baggage fees. PMUA started charging for a second bag, no decline in bookings. AA and PMUS then said let's charge for the first bag, no decline in bookings. CO and DL held out for a bit but then said "hey, we're leaving money on the table because people aren't booking away from he airlines with bag fees, nor are they willing to pay a premium to fly airlines with no bag fees." They then followed suit. People complain but they didn't vote with their feet/wallet when they had the chance.

Same with 3-4-3 777 cabins. EK has done it for years and the traveling public think they are the bees knees. The public doesn't book away from airlines with 3-4-3 777s and 3-3-3 787s, and they certainly weren't paying a premium to fly airlines that had 3-3-3 777s and 2-4-2 787s so again, the airlines, like any rational business people, said, "we're leaving money in the table."
 
Planetalk
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:35 pm

The trouble I have with this 'the public get what they want/pay for' is that the public are just not given any information when making their booking. Imagine if when you went to buy a car, or a new computer as an example of something you can buy online. You go to a computer retailer, search, and all your recieve is a list of manufacturers and the price and...nothing. No specifications, not the memory, processor speed, hard drive, nada. It would be ridiulous, and of course in such a situation people would be flocking to buy the lowest price computer every time and there would be no incentive for anyone to build higher spec machines.

This is the problem with airline tickets. And it means the market isn't operating efficiently, because that requires full information. A lot of airlines know this and are happy to exploit it. It means there is no incentive for airlines to provide a better product, as customers don't even know about it when they make their booking. If search engines made it clear that X airline provided Y" more space, 2 hot meals rather than 1, better IFE blah blah blah, I imagine this would sway a lot of purchasing decisions, especially for longer flights, and if the price differential weren't too big. It would certainly mean people consider a small amount extra I would imagine rather than defaulting to the cheapest because they assume all airlines are broadly the same.

Until such information is provided to passengers, it can't be argued that they have made their preference clear. The lack of information means this is inevitiable, it's not necessarily that passengers don't value comfort, just that there is no way of choosing it. And I agree with those who say economy plus or premium economy are often very poor value for the extra room you get. The airlines are deliberately muddying the waters so that pax can't make an informed choice. Anyone who wants a market that operates efficiently and fairly to both sides, should be pissed at this.
 
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NYCRuss
Posts: 195
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:49 pm

Planetalk wrote:
The trouble I have with this 'the public get what they want/pay for' is that the public are just not given any information when making their booking. Imagine if when you went to buy a car, or a new computer as an example of something you can buy online. You go to a computer retailer, search, and all your recieve is a list of manufacturers and the price and...nothing. No specifications, not the memory, processor speed, hard drive, nada. It would be ridiulous, and of course in such a situation people would be flocking to buy the lowest price computer every time and there would be no incentive for anyone to build higher spec machines.

This is the problem with airline tickets. And it means the market isn't operating efficiently, because that requires full information. A lot of airlines know this and are happy to exploit it. It means there is no incentive for airlines to provide a better product, as customers don't even know about it when they make their booking. If search engines made it clear that X airline provided Y" more space, 2 hot meals rather than 1, better IFE blah blah blah, I imagine this would sway a lot of purchasing decisions, especially for longer flights, and if the price differential weren't too big. It would certainly mean people consider a small amount extra I would imagine rather than defaulting to the cheapest because they assume all airlines are broadly the same.

Until such information is provided to passengers, it can't be argued that they have made their preference clear. The lack of information means this is inevitiable, it's not necessarily that passengers don't value comfort, just that there is no way of choosing it. And I agree with those who say economy plus or premium economy are often very poor value for the extra room you get. The airlines are deliberately muddying the waters so that pax can't make an informed choice. Anyone who wants a market that operates efficiently and fairly to both sides, should be pissed at this.

Yup. I'd like to see seat pitch and width listed when booking flights. When that happens, we'll get an idea about what the market really supports.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3613
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:27 pm

crazyplane1234 wrote:
The way I see it, taking away a star because of reduced comfort wouldn't be fair, as it would cause the system to be biased against LCCs.

Yeah... it might hurt the reputation of all the 5-star LCC's out there... :roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
wenders825
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:05 pm

AA777223 wrote:
And most of EKs fleet is 2-3-2 in J, and tons of people think they are the world's elite carrier. It's a shame how uninformed the public is.

also a.net, which always praises EK above all despite their J and Y configurations
 
Planetalk
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:07 pm

wenders825 wrote:
AA777223 wrote:
And most of EKs fleet is 2-3-2 in J, and tons of people think they are the world's elite carrier. It's a shame how uninformed the public is.

also a.net, which always praises EK above all despite their J and Y configurations


To be fair, if you're on an Emirates A380, which is a pretty substantial proportion of their flights, I'd struggle to name a better hard and soft product out there in Y. As I understand it people do book towards the A380 on a lot of airlines where the choice is available. As I said though, the trouble is people are just not given the information on configurations and product when booking.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:30 am

oldannyboy wrote:
The truth is, it's not the passengers' fault my friend. It's not "wanting the cheap fares" that are making the airlines shrink the size of the seats and the space in between these. It's the airlines wanting to capitalize and extrapolate the outmost out of their assets. It's about making the most, earning the most, extract every drop of juice out of the lemon...

I am somewhat saddened that on A.net this always ends up in a tyrade against these "perceived" -or otherwise- poor stupid lesser beings who must be somewhere stomping their feet really hard and loud for these ever-cheaper fares....

Hogwash.

The airlines are giving pax exactly what they've shown via their spending habits (read that: "actions") that they want-- price uber alles.

Pax had a chance to stop this dead in its tracks when it first came out, by giving their business to those who abstained from installing it. 10abreast, bag fees, fair unbundling, etc, it applies to them all.

But pax didn't.

Why? ...because if you're $XX cheaper than the next guy, the majority of Y pax are booking you; and despite all of their bitching-- if you offer it again, they'll generally take it again.

Once that became abundantly clear, the airlines that abstained had to find a justification for the Opportunity Cost it created. Most quickly found out that they couldn't. Not all, but most.

So no, they're not evil. No, it's not a conspiracy against you "lesser beings"... it's just business doing what it's SUPPOSED to do: minimize cost + maximize revenue to what the market will bear. And the market has shown, without a shadow of a doubt, that it will bear 10abreast. It'll bitch and whine the whole time, but it'll do it, then do it again, and again, and again.

So, action meets consequence. Plain and simple.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2573
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:53 am

LAX772LR wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
The truth is, it's not the passengers' fault my friend. It's not "wanting the cheap fares" that are making the airlines shrink the size of the seats and the space in between these. It's the airlines wanting to capitalize and extrapolate the outmost out of their assets. It's about making the most, earning the most, extract every drop of juice out of the lemon...

I am somewhat saddened that on A.net this always ends up in a tyrade against these "perceived" -or otherwise- poor stupid lesser beings who must be somewhere stomping their feet really hard and loud for these ever-cheaper fares....

Hogwash.

The airlines are giving pax exactly what they've shown via their spending habits (read that: "actions") that they want-- price uber alles.

Pax had a chance to stop this dead in its tracks when it first came out, by giving their business to those who abstained from installing it. 10abreast, bag fees, fair unbundling, etc, it applies to them all.

But pax didn't.

Why? ...because if you're $XX cheaper than the next guy, the majority of Y pax are booking you; and despite all of their bitching-- if you offer it again, they'll generally take it again.

Once that became abundantly clear, the airlines that abstained had to find a justification for the Opportunity Cost it created. Most quickly found out that they couldn't. Not all, but most.

So no, they're not evil. No, it's not a conspiracy against you "lesser beings"... it's just business doing what it's SUPPOSED to do: minimize cost + maximize revenue to what the market will bear. And the market has shown, without a shadow of a doubt, that it will bear 10abreast. It'll bitch and whine the whole time, but it'll do it, then do it again, and again, and again.

So, action meets consequence. Plain and simple.


Ok LegoLax, that's ok. We obviously disagree.
I'll still think it's not an action that was driven by customers, and I'm fully and entirely convinced about this, however you are entitled to your opinion too. It's a forum to meet and discuss topics, not one to agree on them.
If you think long and hard enough, the exact same thing happened in the 1970s when 747s went from 8 to 9 to 10 abreast... it was not passengers demanding cheaper seats...
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 13278
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Re: Eva Air unveils new 77W 10Y cabin config

Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:23 am

oldannyboy wrote:
Ok LegoLax, that's ok.

....you're best served to leave comedy to those with wit.


oldannyboy wrote:
I'm fully and entirely convinced about this,

Sure, though doesn't actually mean anything, relative to fact.


oldannyboy wrote:
it was not passengers demanding cheaper seats...

Based on what?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

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