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commavia
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AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:37 pm

Both flights shift to 787-9s starting 4 November 2017.

http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/american-airlines-announces-first-routes-for-boeing-787-9-dreamliner

Concurrent with the 787-9, AA will also introduce Premium Economy for the first time. Also interestingly, this means that AA will be pulling the 77W (and F) off DFW-GRU. I hope that 77W capacity shifts to one of the two DFW-TYO flights.
 
gregn21
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:57 pm

Not sure, but I think I read that the 77W willmove to LAX-HND.
 
wn676
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:00 pm

Do you mean November 4, 2016? ;)

I see that the flights are still showing a 777 equipment code but with a 30/255 configuration. As a side note...with that configuration, the -9s seem like perfect 1-for-1 replacements for the A333s.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
commavia
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:10 pm

wn676 wrote:
Do you mean November 4, 2016? ;)


Yes. Apologies.

wn676 wrote:
I see that the flights are still showing a 777 equipment code but with a 30/255 configuration. As a side note...with that configuration, the -9s seem like perfect 1-for-1 replacements for the A333s.


They do seem like a good 333 replacement, and also good for much if not all of the remainder of 772 Asia flying. It will be interesting to watch how the fleet dynamics evolve with the 763s and 333s leaving, and the 333s likely starting to cross-fleet this year between MIA-South America (northern winter) and Europe (northern summer).
 
jfk777
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:57 pm

The idea of replacing Usair A333 with AA 787-9 is awful, while the capacity is similar that is where similarity ends. A333 are great for PHL to Europe but try DFW to Asia and that is where the 787-9 shines. East coast to Europe would be a massive misuse of a 787-9. I hope AA takes a page out of the UA 787-9 playbook and increases the J class cabin to the UA 48 seats and launches long flights like UA's LAX to Melbourne and SFO to Singapore.

Miami to Johannesburg would be a great 787-9 route for AA, ORD to Hong Kong would be too. The AA 787-9 possibilities are endless.
 
PUDFW
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:27 pm

On the American page promoting the new 789, it lists the walk up bar as only 788...looks like the bar got chopped to add more seats?

I dont know what other people think but I feel the bar doesnt take up a lot of space on 77W or 788 or the reconfigured 772 V1, sad to see they arent going to include this.

I also fear that the next refreshed version of the 772 with lower J seats will also get rid of the bar.
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:23 am

per Wiki they are dumping 9 333s and gaining 22 350s, 22 789s and 3 788s. So what do they do with the new capacity? Would seem to suggest many new routes, do they really have many existing that need additional frequency?
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:33 am

jfk777 wrote:
The idea of replacing Usair A333 with AA 787-9 is awful, while the capacity is similar that is where similarity ends. A333 are great for PHL to Europe but try DFW to Asia and that is where the 787-9 shines. East coast to Europe would be a massive misuse of a 787-9. I hope AA takes a page out of the UA 787-9 playbook and increases the J class cabin to the UA 48 seats and launches long flights like UA's LAX to Melbourne and SFO to Singapore.

Miami to Johannesburg would be a great 787-9 route for AA, ORD to Hong Kong would be too. The AA 787-9 possibilities are endless.


yes I'd think the 772 replaces the 333 not the 789.
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:07 am

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
per Wiki they are dumping 9 333s and gaining 22 350s, 22 789s and 3 788s. So what do they do with the new capacity? Would seem to suggest many new routes, do they really have many existing that need additional frequency?

Don't forget they are also dumping 23x 763s between now and Dec 31, 2018... And A359s won't start deliveries until mid-2017 and stretch to 2020. So if you look at a yearly net aircraft addition, its a lot less steep than you infer. Recently there have even been so deferrals to match projected demand more accurately.
A
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:33 am

jfk777 wrote:
East coast to Europe would be a massive misuse of a 787-9.

You mean like all the A340s, 777s, 747s, and A380s flying from east coast to Europe? :?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Eirules
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:44 am

What's going to happen to the routes that currently see 757s in winter but upguages to 767s or A330s over the next couple of years, like JFK-MAN or PHL-DUB. Surely a 772 will be too much aircraft for these routes? For example, DUB is currently seeing 3 A330s & a 757 daily (PHL, ORD & CLT and JFK respectively). Even if JFK eventually went A321neo, would we see 3x 777? Or will AA be forced to put a less than optimal aircraft on the route, ie 787?
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
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Polot
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:34 am

The 789 is virtually the same size as the A333 and only about ~4-5t heavier max according to people here. I don't know why you all think it is suddenly suboptimal for east coast-Europe flights and that the heavier 772 would be better.

OEW is what matters when determining whether a plane will be more efficient on shorter flights- not MTOW because the plane will be no where near MTOW. It doesn't matter that the 787 can fly 7000nm, it has a similar OEW as the A330 so it also performs virtually just as well if not better as that plane on shorter flights. That is the benefit of being an aircraft designed in the mid to late 00s versus the late 80s/early 90s.

Most operators are using the 787 on longer routes first, however, because that is where the 787's gains are most realized versus the older gen aircraft.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:39 pm

commavia wrote:
Both flights shift to 787-9s starting 4 November 2017.

http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/american-airlines-announces-first-routes-for-boeing-787-9-dreamliner

Concurrent with the 787-9, AA will also introduce Premium Economy for the first time. Also interestingly, this means that AA will be pulling the 77W (and F) off DFW-GRU. I hope that 77W capacity shifts to one of the two DFW-TYO flights.


Thanks again for AA honoring GRU in the debut of a new model, as you did with the 77W. :D
That's why I don't even check other airlines fares when I go to the USA.
 
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American 767
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:12 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Miami to Johannesburg would be a great 787-9 route for AA


MIA-CPT also would be great for AA on the 787-9. And nonstop in both directions.
Ben Soriano
 
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sunrisevalley
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:29 pm

jfk777 wrote:


Miami to Johannesburg would be a great 787-9 route for AA The AA 787-9 possibilities are endless.


The payload penalty of something like 17t would make this unlikely. Now CPT would be another story. Being ~ 400nm closer to MIA than JNB would not hurt at all.
 
jfk777
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:33 am

LAX772LR wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
East coast to Europe would be a massive misuse of a 787-9.

You mean like all the A340s, 777s, 747s, and A380s flying from east coast to Europe? :?


What AA does and other airlines are different things. The airlines flying A340, 747 and A380 sound a lot like IB, BA and LH, there fleet planning is different then AA( not better or worse but different). Airlines flying A340 have had them for years and A380 are extremely rare on east coast to Europe but for a handful of IAD, JFK and MIA flights to Europe by the EU3.

AA has 22 A350-900 ordered by USairways coming soon probably replacing he A330-300. AA 787-9 will probably replace 777-200 to Asia and those 777 will do more European flying.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:26 am

jfk777 wrote:
What AA does and other airlines are different things.

No it isn't.

AA has some of the most capable 77Es available, yet for 17yrs has consistently from them from every east coast gateway that they have, to Europe.


jfk777 wrote:
380 are extremely rare on east coast to Europe but for a handful of IAD, JFK and MIA flights

"Extremely rare"...??
Do you somehow not realize that you just described nearly a third of all A380 ops to the USA? :lol:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
AAplat4life
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:16 pm

"AA has 22 A350-900 ordered by USairways coming soon probably replacing he A330-300."

It remains to be seen if AA will use the A350 to replace the A333s. I have my doubts. The A350 would be better suited for Pacific routes out of LAX and DFW. Better operating costs than the 777-300ER, and AA could keep capacity better in check. The A359 is too much aircraft for European routes outs of PHL and CLT. Ultimately, we will probably see 772Es and 787-8 switched to those hubs.
 
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Polot
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:03 pm

There are only 9 A333s. No one aircraft type is going to be their "replacement". 787s, A332s, and 77Es will replace their routes. I believe AA will have very few A350s on hand before the last A333 leaves.
 
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817Dreamliiner
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:29 pm

Configuration for the 787-9 is now known:

J30W21Y234 for a total of 285 pax.

Will operate DFW-LAX from the 6th of October till 3rd November and then start DFW-MAD and DFW-GRU.

Source: http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... =hootsuite
Life is encrypted, you are modified, Like a virus in a lullaby, Artificial till the day you die, silly programme, You're corrupted
 
dcajet
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:00 pm

ojjunior wrote:
Thanks again for AA honoring GRU in the debut of a new model, as you did with the 77W. :D
That's why I don't even check other airlines fares when I go to the USA.


While on a first reading this is an auspicious development for GRU and Brazil, I am afraid there is not much to celebrate beyond that. Not only AA is reducing capacity on the route, it also means that with no more 77W services in Brazil, AA no longer offers first class to/from Brazil. Only EZE, LHR, SYD, HKG and- if I am missing any - other destinations served with the 77W will see AA's most premium service. If n destination with the gravitas of Sao Paulo is not able to support F class, it shows the depth and reach of the country's crisis. Shame, but hopefully a short term change only!
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:43 pm

Does AA have to do any proving runs with their 789 or is their experience with 788 good enough?
 
commavia
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:50 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
Does AA have to do any proving runs with their 789 or is their experience with 788 good enough?


Think DFW-LAX for a few weeks prior to MAD/GRU launching is the proving runs. :)
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:38 am

commavia wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
Does AA have to do any proving runs with their 789 or is their experience with 788 good enough?


Think DFW-LAX for a few weeks prior to MAD/GRU launching is the proving runs. :)

Actually the aircraft will arrive in DFW 2-3 weeks before the LAX flights begin. you can expect to see a number of FAA-compliant flights during those few weeks to finalise airworthiness permits. unfortunately without pax!
A
 
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prchan
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:19 pm

dcajet wrote:
While on a first reading this is an auspicious development for GRU and Brazil, I am afraid there is not much to celebrate beyond that. Not only AA is reducing capacity on the route, it also means that with no more 77W services in Brazil, AA no longer offers first class to/from Brazil.


I guess the JFK and one of MIA rotations are still scheduled as 77W. I have 2 flights scheduled on the 77W to JFK (november/16 and april/17) - I know this may change anytime!
 
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TR763
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:16 pm

dcajet wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
Thanks again for AA honoring GRU in the debut of a new model, as you did with the 77W. :D
That's why I don't even check other airlines fares when I go to the USA.


While on a first reading this is an auspicious development for GRU and Brazil, I am afraid there is not much to celebrate beyond that. Not only AA is reducing capacity on the route, it also means that with no more 77W services in Brazil, AA no longer offers first class to/from Brazil. Only EZE, LHR, SYD, HKG and- if I am missing any - other destinations served with the 77W will see AA's most premium service. If n destination with the gravitas of Sao Paulo is not able to support F class, it shows the depth and reach of the country's crisis. Shame, but hopefully a short term change only!


AA will still fly 10X weekly 77W to MIA and a daily 77W to JFK from GRU when the 789 enters in service to DFW ;)
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winginit
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:09 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Miami to Johannesburg would be a great 787-9 route for AA


How many times now has that been debunked on A.net? I've lost count. Not only would even the 789 need to take a payload restriction, but you'd be looking at a new station start-up with multiple frames and no beyond feed coming together with an economic environment that's currently a basket case.
 
AAplat4life
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:47 am

I'm sure many will be anxious to see how AA categorizes Premium Economy both in terms of actual pricing and upgrades. Will AA require EXP to purchase a PE fare to use SWUs to Business Class? In that case, presumably a coach fare purchased by EXP upgrades to PE with SWUs. Time will tell, but I suspect AA has already determined this.
 
Sooner787
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:02 pm

AAplat4life wrote:
I'm sure many will be anxious to see how AA categorizes Premium Economy both in terms of actual pricing and upgrades. Will AA require EXP to purchase a PE fare to use SWUs to Business Class? In that case, presumably a coach fare purchased by EXP upgrades to PE with SWUs. Time will tell, but I suspect AA has already determined this.



AA will no doubt got for the most confusing option LOL
 
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ojjunior
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Re: AA First 789 routes DFW-MAD/GRU

Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:45 pm

TR763 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
Thanks again for AA honoring GRU in the debut of a new model, as you did with the 77W. :D
That's why I don't even check other airlines fares when I go to the USA.


While on a first reading this is an auspicious development for GRU and Brazil, I am afraid there is not much to celebrate beyond that. Not only AA is reducing capacity on the route, it also means that with no more 77W services in Brazil, AA no longer offers first class to/from Brazil. Only EZE, LHR, SYD, HKG and- if I am missing any - other destinations served with the 77W will see AA's most premium service. If n destination with the gravitas of Sao Paulo is not able to support F class, it shows the depth and reach of the country's crisis. Shame, but hopefully a short term change only!


AA will still fly 10X weekly 77W to MIA and a daily 77W to JFK from GRU when the 789 enters in service to DFW ;)


Absolutely, in fact no matter the class of service we're talking about. If AA sees that focusing in Y traffic or similar makes more money than F seats, we're done discussing here.
I'm pretty sure there are plenty of specialists who studied that for months...

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