dabpit wrote:

It has been but they need to keep the momentum going forward.

You're right, I hope DL can add either CDG or AMS soon. Also I'm hoping that they open a DL pilot base in MCO too, I see a lot of potential for DL here. I wasn't surprised about LATAM adding SCL either, I knew it would happen. What's next?

flymco753 wrote:

You're right, I hope DL can add either CDG or AMS soon. Also I'm hoping that they open a DL pilot base in MCO too, I see a lot of potential for DL here. I wasn't surprised about LATAM adding SCL either, I knew it would happen. What's next?

What's next is the million dollar question.

*As mentioned before DL to AMS or CDG
*DY adding service to CDG, ARN, BCN, DUB
*Fruther expansion by NK and F9
*F9 adding some international routes
*LATAM adding more flights: make SCL year round, bring BSB back, add BOG and EZE
*More year round service to Canada
*Azul bring back CNF
*Increased service to Mexico with Volaris
*WOW air start service
*See the Viva Group airlines start service

I want to know what people think about B6 doing a nonstop from MCO to DTW, but please let me explain why I think it can happen, feel free to agree or disagree. DTW is a low yield route, especially with F9 and NK in the gig, than WN coming in on Saturdays this winter. I don't consider the WN flight a threat first of all, and jetBlue can offer a cheaper fare than DL but more expensive than NK or F9 sometimes. Detroit has been exposed to the B6 brand and even I and others have fell in love with it. I use the MCO route a lot, I know that flymco753 kid does too and I'm actually pretty positive B6 would get a pretty good turn out on it. Look at what it did for the BOS and FLL routes. With a well timed arrival and departure from DTW I really think it could happen. A lot disagree, and a lot agree, but I'm pretty sure they'd make it happen, even if it has to be flown on a E190.

iFlyDTW wrote:

I know that flymco753 kid does too

"thumbs up"

flymco753 wrote:

dabpit wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Spirit has a pair for making this move. I think B6 is going to retaliate by attacking an NK hub, which will likely be Detroit, I wouldn't be surprised if a nonstop MCO-DTW on B6 pops up here pretty soon.

It is a smart move by NK but I don't see B6 starting DTW flights. There are a few here that are so caught up on B6 starting DTW. I have said it before and will say it again, if another airline starts MCO-DTW daily it will more than likely be WN. F9 just went daily on their MCO-DTW route and B6 seems more focused on their Northeast routes.

I respect that opinion. Of course I could wish for it and hope it happens but a lot of other factors contribute.

Why are you so oriented towards JetBlue adding the Orlando to Detroit route? The Detroit market is well served from Orlando, with Southwest coming back and rumored to maintain year round flights on this route, JetBlue will virtually NEVER happen, unless all airlines withdrawal besides Delta, but with this route being so busy nobody is going to end it unless there is a shift in business plans or the airline is not making profit. JetBlue would probably do well and make a profit but not as much as say, Orlando to Cincinatti.

Have there been any updates on when JetBlue plans to launch the MCO-Havana flights? We're hoping to take advantage of it in March if they are operating.

c172akula wrote:

Have there been any updates on when JetBlue plans to launch the MCO-Havana flights? We're hoping to take advantage of it in March if they are operating.

It doesn't look like B6 uploaded their HAV schedules yet, but I would suspect it would happen soon now that they've been granted authority.

flymco753 wrote:

It doesn't look like B6 uploaded their HAV schedules yet, but I would suspect it would happen soon now that they've been granted authority.

All airlines but B6 an WN posted their schedule. For an airline that wanted so badly to be in HAV they are taking for ever to post their schedule.

What's going on with the DL flight to SEA? It disappeared this month, and next month, then shows up on random dates for the next two months, before going daily again, and then more randomness.

mcogator wrote:

What's going on with the DL flight to SEA? It disappeared this month, and next month, then shows up on random dates for the next two months, before going daily again, and then more randomness.

They could just be taking the route seasonal.

dabpit wrote:

mcogator wrote:

What's going on with the DL flight to SEA? It disappeared this month, and next month, then shows up on random dates for the next two months, before going daily again, and then more randomness.

They could just be taking the route seasonal.

That's sad. According to MCO data up to 3/16, the flights to SEA have the highest domestic load factor at 91.1%. Pricing wasn't cheap either, with the fares I saw about double what LAX usually is, and DL has 21 weekly flights there, and the other airlines have an additional 33 weekly flight to LAX before B6 starts flying NS to LAX in January.

https://orlandoairports.net/site/uploads/Top-Domestic-Markets.pdf

This was posted in the EK going to FLL thread, but the article contains some interesting information about EK's MCO flight. People were asking about whether the flight would be sustainable and where the traffic would come from. This gives some answers and there's a chart to show numbers.

The data shows that in its first year of operation (September 2015 – August 2016) Emirates carried an estimated 135,000 two-way passengers on the route with around three quarters of the outbound demand from Dubai beginning their journeys behind the world’s largest international airport. Of the 195 passengers on average a day flying into Orlando, 97.2 percent are actually ending their journey at Orlando International Airport.

A look more closely at the origin and destination of passengers on the route shows that Emirates’ wider network from Dubai into Africa, Asia the GCC and the Indian sub-continent has been crucial to the success of the service. Alongside the local traffic, Mumbai, Johannesburg, Kuwait, Hyderabad, Delhi, Manila, Riyadh, Jeddah, Bangalore, Bangkok was the origin or destination for notable levels of traffic.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/bre ... b-20161014

DL will fly 6 flights between MCO and MSP this winter, tying DTW briefly. My honest opinion? Detroit has always been heavier and more full, it would only make sense for DTW to get more flights too, departures to DTW this winter will be 7 in mid March only, a cut from February last year, it also looks like MSP will have more MCO seats this winter. MSP never was nearly as heavy or full as DTW so it makes me wonder if this is a financial move or because they want to flow more pax through MSP for MCO or they're adding more seats to accommodate a growing demand. I think winter time departures to DTW should be 14 at leased that'll cover more pax (what are some potential moves to meet the demand for DTW? F9 adds a 2nd daily? B6 makes an appearance, WN comes back full time?).

dabpit wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

You're right, I hope DL can add either CDG or AMS soon. Also I'm hoping that they open a DL pilot base in MCO too, I see a lot of potential for DL here. I wasn't surprised about LATAM adding SCL either, I knew it would happen. What's next?

What's next is the million dollar question.

*As mentioned before DL to AMS or CDG
*DY adding service to CDG, ARN, BCN, DUB
*Fruther expansion by NK and F9
*F9 adding some international routes
*LATAM adding more flights: make SCL year round, bring BSB back, add BOG and EZE
*More year round service to Canada
*Azul bring back CNF
*Increased service to Mexico with Volaris
*WOW air start service
*See the Viva Group airlines start service

CDG will show up in due time; that said, the million dollar question is who gets it first. If DY launches first, Delta will counter with AMS, if Delta launches first, then things get interesting...

KTPAFlyer wrote:

dabpit wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

You're right, I hope DL can add either CDG or AMS soon. Also I'm hoping that they open a DL pilot base in MCO too, I see a lot of potential for DL here. I wasn't surprised about LATAM adding SCL either, I knew it would happen. What's next?

What's next is the million dollar question.

*As mentioned before DL to AMS or CDG
*DY adding service to CDG, ARN, BCN, DUB
*Fruther expansion by NK and F9
*F9 adding some international routes
*LATAM adding more flights: make SCL year round, bring BSB back, add BOG and EZE
*More year round service to Canada
*Azul bring back CNF
*Increased service to Mexico with Volaris
*WOW air start service
*See the Viva Group airlines start service

CDG will show up in due time; that said, the million dollar question is who gets it first. If DY launches first, Delta will counter with AMS, if Delta launches first, then things get interesting...

It's not a million dollar question. Norwegian might launch it, and Delta won't respond. The DL/AF JBA already flew MCOCDG to poor results, even with a dense plane (only 14 J seats). Delta doesn't care about MCO-CDG and there is nothing to protect/retaliate.

flymco753 wrote:

what are some potential moves to meet the demand for DTW?

I know you're passionate about your Orlando to Detroit flights, but do you think that complaining about it on here is going to solve anything? If you want to see JetBlue fly this route, than go to their little recommendation link on their website, cry or do what you please to convince them that this route is right for you and whoever will use it, and maybe, just maybe they will take it into consideration, but the chance of it happening? Very slim, not saying it will not because it can, but very unlikely. Minneapolis is served by more airlines simply because airlines must be making money, right? I agree with you, though, when you say Frontier can go double daily, or Southwest run Saturday only all year, but be realistic here, Southwest and Frontier can do it because they are lower yield airlines, and can compete among each other, whereas if JetBlue jumps into the market, you have the threat of Delta.

KTPAFlyer wrote:

CDG will show up in due time; that said, the million dollar question is who gets it first. If DY launches first, Delta will counter with AMS, if Delta launches first, then things get interesting...

MAH4546 wrote:

It's not a million dollar question. Norwegian might launch it, and Delta won't respond. The DL/AF JBA already flew MCOCDG to poor results, even with a dense plane (only 14 J seats). Delta doesn't care about MCO-CDG and there is nothing to protect/retaliate.

There is a slim chance DL will start CDG or AMS. If DY adds CDG then don't look for DL to add either one in response. DL will add a route when they feel it can be sustained profitably.

dabpit wrote:

KTPAFlyer wrote:

CDG will show up in due time; that said, the million dollar question is who gets it first. If DY launches first, Delta will counter with AMS, if Delta launches first, then things get interesting...

MAH4546 wrote:

It's not a million dollar question. Norwegian might launch it, and Delta won't respond. The DL/AF JBA already flew MCOCDG to poor results, even with a dense plane (only 14 J seats). Delta doesn't care about MCO-CDG and there is nothing to protect/retaliate.

There is a slim chance DL will start CDG or AMS. If DY adds CDG then don't look for DL to add either one in response. DL will add a route when they feel it can be sustained profitably.

AMS makes more sense than CDG for DL. Maybe we'll see some more Latin America flying from MCO, and possibly another European route. I'd like to see DL grow in MCO beyond what there is now.

I want to refresh the list I added early. Keep in mind that some of these are long shots and/or will happen over a long period of time (changes in orange):
*As mentioned before DL to AMS or CDG
*DY adding service to CDG, ARN, BCN, DUB, MAD
*Fruther expansion by NK and F9 (Which routes are next)
~F9: PWM, PHX, SLC, MIA, MEM, SAT
~NK: ROC, ALB, SDF, MDT, IND, DEN (was published on their route map by mistake)
*F9 adding some international routes
~CUN, KIN, MBJ, PUJ, GUA, SJO, PTY, BOG
*LATAM adding more flights: make SCL year round, bring BSB back, add BOG and EZE
*More year round service to Canada
~Places like YVR, YWG, YHZ, YYC, YQB
*Azul bring back CNF, increase REC frequencies, add BSB
*Increased service to Mexico with Volaris
*WOW air start service
*See the Viva Group airlines start service
*See the the addition of TAP Portugual to LIS and LOT Polish to WAW
*airberlin adding TXL
*Alaska adding SFO
*jetBlue adding LAS, PHX, PWM, ORD, PIT, SFO, FLL, ATL (we already know it is coming)
*Southwest adding OAK, SJC, SEA, PDX, SLC

WN is ending their seasonal Detroit flight for the winter with the next schedule change, the Saturday only flight will run all winter virtually as opposed to 2 months from last year. Maybe this is a route that will come back at the expense of closing FNT?

dabpit wrote:

[color=#FF8000]*jetBlue adding ORD, ATL

If B6 can make both of these happen they can make DTW happen too, I understand it's low yield but so are ORD and ATL. I've flown every airline to DTW and asked the employees how DTW fights are and you get virtually the same response, "always full, heavy, oversold a lot, needs more flights", I guarantee B6 can make 1x daily work, they barely have to compete with WN unless it's a winter Saturday, NK and F9 don't overload the market, DL is generally not affordable for a person or persons going on a Disney or parks vacation and they don't fly enough capacity or flights either. I'm not trying to be a fool, I'm serious that the possibility is there and it can happen.

flymco753 wrote:

dabpit wrote:

[color=#FF8000]*jetBlue adding ORD, ATL

I'm serious that the possibility is there and it can happen.

This JetBlue to Detroit thing is getting old. NO it is NOT likely for the 10th time, low yield, there is your answer. Lose money, there is your second answer.

thedetroitpole wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

dabpit wrote:

[color=#FF8000]*jetBlue adding ORD, ATL

I'm serious that the possibility is there and it can happen.

This JetBlue to Detroit thing is getting old. NO it is NOT likely for the 10th time, low yield, there is your answer. Lose money, there is your second answer.

How about MSP? A smaller market to MCO than DTW. 3x Sun Country, 2x Spirit, 1x Frontier, 6x Delta and 1x Southwest this winter? So basically you're saying DTW can't support 12 flights, but a smaller market can? In terms of amount of pax each way between city pairs.

flymco753 wrote:

I'm serious

When you stop erecting over the Orlando to Detroit transit options feel free to come and provide factual answers instead of telling someone they should add a route with no facts.

https://twitter.com/eurowings/status/798563295959465984

Eurowings has announced CGN-MCO 2x week starting July 8th.

DTL wrote:

https://twitter.com/eurowings/status/798563295959465984

Eurowings has announced CGN-MCO 2x week starting July 8th.

Wednesdays and Saturdays

DTL wrote:

https://twitter.com/eurowings/status/798563295959465984

Eurowings has announced CGN-MCO 2x week starting July 8th.

awesome news! Interesting to see how much MCO traffic to Germany is picking up (assuming AB is able to keep their commitment). I assume and hope this isn't going to replace LH service to FRA and that there is substantial enough of a difference in the service and the passenger demand to justify both (I've heard a lot of speculation that LH does well with Orlando traffic connecting in FRA). It would be sad to lose them.

tjh8402 wrote:

DTL wrote:

https://twitter.com/eurowings/status/798563295959465984

Eurowings has announced CGN-MCO 2x week starting July 8th.

awesome news! Interesting to see how much MCO traffic to Germany is picking up (assuming AB is able to keep their commitment). I assume and hope this isn't going to replace LH service to FRA and that there is substantial enough of a difference in the service and the passenger demand to justify both (I've heard a lot of speculation that LH does well with Orlando traffic connecting in FRA). It would be sad to lose them.

According to the latest stats, September 2016, outbound load factor was around 76%, while inbound load factor was 85%. Not bad on a daily 744 in "slow season". Compare this to EK in September, which had an outbound LF around 61% and an inbound LF around 55%. This is around a 40% drop in total passengers carried from August 2016, while LH only saw a 10% decrease in passengers carried from August to September.

August did have 1 more day then Semptember, so that's an extra 744 for LH, and an extra 77W for EK, plus they flew 2 more 77L in September than August.

It would be interesting to see if the routes end up performing well if airberlin and/or Eurowings will add another city.

Lots of good news at MCO! I'm wondering if some of these flights are tourism based vs industrial based, CGN seems a bit odd for MCO in a business perspective.

flymco753 wrote:

Lots of good news at MCO! I'm wondering if some of these flights are tourism based vs industrial based, CGN seems a bit odd for MCO in a business perspective.

For this route I would go with tourist based.

There is a rumor that jetblue wants to fly 2 daily flights to minneap from orlando

fsafsx wrote:

There is a rumor that jetblue wants to fly 2 daily flights to minneap from orlando

To where??

https://orlandoairports.net/press/2016/ ... l-airport/

Not so much air service development, but the new south terminal complex has been approved to move forward. Great to see expansion at the airport!

DTL wrote:

https://orlandoairports.net/press/2016/11/16/construction-approved-new-south-terminal-orlando-international-airport/

Not so much air service development, but the new south terminal complex has been approved to move forward. Great to see expansion at the airport!

Wonder what airline or airlines will get in there.

flymco753 wrote:

Wonder what airline or airlines will get in there.

All airlines that currently use airside 4 FIS plus the new ones being added.

DTL wrote:

https://orlandoairports.net/press/2016/11/16/construction-approved-new-south-terminal-orlando-international-airport/

Not so much air service development, but the new south terminal complex has been approved to move forward. Great to see expansion at the airport!

It's going forward, but it's been pushed back about a year for opening, due to steel being at a "premium", and they can't get what they need in time for a 2019 open.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/ora ... story.html

I just saw on the airport's website that Eastern started a once weekly flight to Guatemala City starting on November 19th?

Norwegian is adding CDG once a week on Monday starting July 31, 2017!

Here are the flight details:
Paris-Charles De Gaulle - Orlando
5:00 PM - 8:50 PM
DY7059

Orlando - Paris-Charles De Gaulle
10:50 PM - 1:30 PM +1
DY7060

dabpit wrote:

Norwegian is adding CDG once a week on Monday starting July 31, 2017!

Here are the flight details:
Paris-Charles De Gaulle - Orlando
5:00 PM - 8:50 PM
DY7059

Orlando - Paris-Charles De Gaulle
10:50 PM - 1:30 PM +1
DY7060

Are they starting it that late in summer due to aircraft availability? I would think sometime in late May would be better.

dabpit wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Wonder what airline or airlines will get in there.

All airlines that currently use airside 4 FIS plus the new ones being added.

Not exactly true.

While some of the airlines using Airside 4 will go to the new South Terminal. Some will remain. The plan is for 1 domestic airline to move their entire operation there (general consensus is B6) plus several international airlines. If B6 moves, than their partner airlines most likely will move also (EK, EI, AV, AD), plus a few others from both Airside 1 and 4. Maybe JJ, VS may stay at Airside 4 and a few others move over from Airside 1. The expanded Airside 4 FIS will continue to operate after the first phase of new South Terminal opens. The Airside 1 FIS will be permanently closed and those gates become domestic only gates.

What airlines will move where is purely speculation. The continued use of Airside 4 and the closure of the Airside 1 FIS is not.

Clipper136 wrote:

While some of the airlines using Airside 4 will go to the new South Terminal. Some will remain. The plan is for 1 domestic airline to move their entire operation there (general consensus is B6) plus several international airlines. If B6 moves, than their partner airlines most likely will move also (EK, EI, AV, AD), plus a few others from both Airside 1 and 4. Maybe JJ, VS may stay at Airside 4 and a few others move over from Airside 1. The expanded Airside 4 FIS will continue to operate after the first phase of new South Terminal opens. The Airside 1 FIS will be permanently closed and those gates become domestic only gates.

What airlines will move where is purely speculation. The continued use of Airside 4 and the closure of the Airside 1 FIS is not.

Given that EI is pre-cleared I see them staying in AS1 (unless they have a high number of connections on B6).

Airlines at new terminal: B6, EK, AV, CM, AD, DY, AB, FI, WS, 3M (International only), and Thomas Cook.
Airlines at AS4: DL, AC, LATAM, VS, LH, Eurowings, Volairs, BW, AM, and international charters.
Airlines to move into AS1: NK, UP, SY, 3M, VA (to be with AS), and domestic charters.

AS adds 1x daily MCO-SFO! This has been a great year for MCO both internationally and domestically. I see plenty more expansion for months to come.

Wouldn't it make sense for AM, DL, VS and WS to all be at Airside 4? I'm sure when the new terminal opens there will be some room for this move, therefore DL can do BW and AW for all of their affiliated carriers.

flymco753 wrote:

AS adds 1x daily MCO-SFO! This has been a great year for MCO both internationally and domestically. I see plenty more expansion for months to come.

Starts June 14, 2017 with a Virgin America A320.

flymco753 wrote:

Wouldn't it make sense for AM, DL, VS and WS to all be at Airside 4? I'm sure when the new terminal opens there will be some room for this move, therefore DL can do BW and AW for all of their affiliated carriers.

Eventually they could be and it would make sense. As for the BW/AW being handled by DL here is the current break down. AM: AW and BW is DGS. WS: AW is Hallmark Aviation and BW is DGS. VS: AW is Swissport and below wing is DL.

VS and AM offer some connections on DL at MCO but to my knowledge WS doesn't.

dabpit wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

AS adds 1x daily MCO-SFO! This has been a great year for MCO both internationally and domestically. I see plenty more expansion for months to come.

Starts June 14, 2017 with a Virgin America A320.

Nice! Now they need to make the move to A1 and park with AS, I've always found it strange that VX parks at A4.

dabpit wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Wouldn't it make sense for AM, DL, VS and WS to all be at Airside 4? I'm sure when the new terminal opens there will be some room for this move, therefore DL can do BW and AW for all of their affiliated carriers.

Eventually they could be and it would make sense. As for the BW/AW being handled by DL here is the current break down. AM: AW and BW is DGS. WS: AW is Hallmark Aviation and BW is DGS. VS: AW is Swissport and below wing is DL.

VS and AM offer some connections on DL at MCO but to my knowledge WS doesn't.

I knew VS was DL BW, but I think they can easily have DL work AM and WS too, don't forget DL want to expand their partnership with WS so I would suspect a JV between the 2, DL's GRU flight could really be a good connector for WS pax.

flymco753 wrote:

Nice! Now they need to make the move to A1 and park with AS, I've always found it strange that VX parks at A4.

You aren't the only one...

flymco753 wrote:

I knew VS was DL BW, but I think they can easily have DL work AM and WS too, don't forget DL want to expand their partnership with WS so I would suspect a JV between the 2, DL's GRU flight could really be a good connector for WS pax.

Yes there is potential for WS to feed the GRU flight but I wouldn't be so quick to to say that DL can easily work the additional flights. DGS is part of DL so not to far removed.

DL is beginning new Saturday winter seasonal flights between MCO-DCA on a CR7. I could see some other cities that could make the Saturday winter list, maybe AUS, MSY, and to stretch it, they could make TVC work on a CR9.