Farnborough Air Show 2016 - Boeing Orders

KarelXWB · Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:29 am

The 2016 Farnborough Air Show (11-17 July) is upon us and it would be appropriate to run three main threads on the major MOU / Order announcements. This thread is for Boeing announcements. 

No other discussion please.

pabloeing · Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:49 am

Waiting the 100 EK B787 order..............

wingflex744 · Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:02 am

Only 100?? :lol:

OA940 · Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:53 am

Will they launch the 777-10X and 737-10 MAX at Farnbrorough?

holzmann · Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:10 pm

The 737 Max 8 struts its stuff at Farnborough...

Sorry, but even for its age it's a much prettier plane than the A32X. In fact, it's never looked better!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUAs5EYm960

CWizard · Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:16 pm

Very nice. Thank you for the link.
It does look like the same "dance" as done by the 787-9.

NamGunner · Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:28 pm

Love the video of the "Boeing A350" Guess they got that one to the market in a hurry!
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Yeah, I know it was a mistake, but, gotta have some fun!

flyabr · Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:49 pm

holzmann wrote:
The 737 Max 8 struts its stuff at Farnborough...

Sorry, but even for its age it's a much prettier plane than the A32X. In fact, it's never looked better!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUAs5EYm960

just once i'd like to be on a commercial flight with a take off like that! :mrgreen:

pasu129 · Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:01 am

flyabr wrote:
holzmann wrote:
The 737 Max 8 struts its stuff at Farnborough...

Sorry, but even for its age it's a much prettier plane than the A32X. In fact, it's never looked better!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUAs5EYm960

just once i'd like to be on a commercial flight with a take off like that!

Try to fly out of SNA, you'll have similar experience~ 737 on Full-Throttle at end of runway is quite amazing.

Revelation · Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:42 am

Similar video of the 789 preparing for the show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwxGDdsI_bU

789 is such a lovely airliner.

Would love to see a similar one for A350.

jeb94 · Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:13 am

The 787, in particular the -9, has a gracefulness and beauty to its flight. With just the slightest of rotation it floats off the runway. The 737 lacks the gracefulness in my opinion but it makes up for it with its quickness and snappiness that just screams sports car or fighter jet. Both are magnificent airplanes.

JerseyFlyer · Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:05 pm

I suggest we have a thread dedicated to Boeing announcements - with "No other discussion please."

NYC777 · Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:03 pm

pabloeing wrote:
Waiting the 100 EK B787 order..............

Ek says they won't be announcing the 787/A350 decision at Farnborough. I wouldn't be surprised if it's done at the Dubai Air Show.

NYC777 · Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:06 pm

In terms of 787 orders, I expect Boeing will reveal a number of Chinese airlines that have ordered the 787 -9 but have been listed as unidentified on Boeing's order book:

30 x 787-9 for Hainan
4 x 787-9 for Xiamen
15 x 787-9 for China Eastern

These are all listed on my spreadsheets:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... go/pubhtml

Btblue · Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:30 pm

Any chance we'll see Boeing launch the MOM at Farnborough?

scbriml · Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:23 pm

NYC777 wrote:
Ek says they won't be announcing the 787/A350 decision at Farnborough. I wouldn't be surprised if it's done at the Dubai Air Show.

The next Dubai Air Show is in November. 2017.

rotating14 · Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:20 pm

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... new-planes

Boeing Co. is in discussions with Spain’s Air Europa Lineas Aereas and German tour operator TUI AG for orders totaling $3.5 billion at list prices, according to people familiar with the planemaker’s plans.

pabloeing · Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:52 am

30 B737-8MAX for Xiamen
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2016-07-11- ... 7-MAX-200s

817Dreamliiner · Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:02 am

pabloeing wrote:
30 B737-8MAX for Xiamen
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2016-07-11- ... 7-MAX-200s

Actually they are 737 MAX 200s

BobMUC · Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:05 am

Actually it's a MOU per Boeing:

https://twitter.com/BoeingAirplanes/sta ... 8482755584

KarelXWB · Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:06 am

817Dreamliiner wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
30 B737-8MAX for Xiamen
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2016-07-11- ... 7-MAX-200s

Actually they are 737 MAX 200s

That's just a marketing name, technically speaking the MAX 200 is nothing more than a MAX-8 with a different cabin.

tacobell101 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:24 am

So thats the first set of orders at Farnborough 2016. Congrates Boeing and Xiamen Airlines

Oykie · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:30 am

KarelXWB wrote:
817Dreamliiner wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
30 B737-8MAX for Xiamen
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2016-07-11- ... 7-MAX-200s

Actually they are 737 MAX 200s

That's just a marketing name, technically speaking the MAX 200 is nothing more than a MAX-8 with a different cabin.

And of course the extra emergency exit to allow for more than 189 passengers. See picture of Ryanair MAX 200.

KarelXWB · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:08 am

Donghai Airlines to order 25x 737 and 5x 787-9.

Boeing [NYSE: BA] and Donghai Airlines announced today the airline's intent to purchase 25 737 MAX 8s and five 787-9 Dreamliners at the 2016 Farnborough International Airshow. The agreement is valued at more than $4 billion at current list prices.

Shenzhen-based Donghai Airlines previously ordered 15 Next-Generation 737-800s and 10 737 MAX 8s in 2013. Donghai continues to fulfill its strategic plan to convert its business model from cargo services to passenger services.

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2016-07-11- ... ive-787-9s

enzo011 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:27 am

Just a point of clarification please, are these new orders or just identification of the unclassified orders that were on the book?

speedbored · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:34 am

enzo011 wrote:
Just a point of clarification please, are these new orders or just identification of the unclassified orders that were on the book?

Neither. Xiamen is a MoU and Donghai is a LoI.

OA940 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:10 am

Btblue wrote:
Any chance we'll see Boeing launch the MOM at Farnborough?

Nope. It's still an idea, not even close to a ready-for-launch plane. It's not even conceived yet. Much like the A350-2000/-8000.

Revelation · Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:12 am

Multiple sources now saying Boeing confirms 737-7MAX will have two more rows than 737-700(NG) for 148 total seats.

WestJet and Southwest both on board for the concept.

I presume this means we'll see it have the 737-8's beefed up structures too.

rotating14 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:24 am

http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2016/07/brea ... x.html?m=1

It looks like TK will be a 787 and 777x customer. An announcement should take place at the Farnborough Air show.

KarelXWB · Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:27 am

Standard Chartered Announce Order for 10 Next-Generation 737-800s:

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2016-07-11- ... n-737-800s

Oykie · Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:28 am

Revelation wrote:
Multiple sources now saying Boeing confirms 737-7MAX will have two more rows than 737-700(NG) for 148 total seats.

WestJet and Southwest both on board for the concept.

I presume this means we'll see it have the 737-8's beefed up structures too.

Several sources quotes Boeing executives John Wojick and Randy Tinseth confirming that it ill be stretched. But they also talk down sales expectation. From Flightglobal:

“It’s not so much about responding competitors out there. It’s much more about responding to our customer needs,” says John Wojick, Boeing’s chief salesman. “I don’t know that it dramatically changes the sales” outlook for the 737-7 variant.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/farnborough-boeing-confirms-737-max-7-redesign-427190/

kaitak · Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:30 am

rotating14 wrote:
http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2016/07/breaking-turkish-airlines-buying-777x.html?m=1

It looks like TK will be a 787 and 777x customer. An announcement should take place at the Farnborough Air show.

This is a long awaited decision; for such a fast growing airline, TK has been very late in announcing orders for new generation widebodies. I can see them going for 778s, for their Australian and S. American routes, but mostly 779s; both 789s and 7810s could also see some success here.

OA940 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:33 am

https://twitter.com/BoeingAirplanes/sta ... 1570229248

Boeing signed a deal with Standard Chartered for ten 737-800's.

WIederling · Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:00 pm

Revelation wrote:
I presume this means we'll see it have the 737-8's beefed up structures too.

Reducing the number of different parts seems to be a primary driver here.

Currently the -700/-MAX7 seems to have widely scoped bespoke parts (fuselage, wings )
to lighten the frame.
The MAX7.5 will get rid of all those ( well reduced to just some fuselage segment missing and
the local infrastructure fittings shortened.)
i.e. a simple -MAX8 shrink.

Revelation · Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:14 pm

WIederling wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I presume this means we'll see it have the 737-8's beefed up structures too.

Reducing the number of different parts seems to be a primary driver here.

Currently the -700/-MAX7 seems to have widely scoped bespoke parts (fuselage, wings )
to lighten the frame.
The MAX7.5 will get rid of all those ( well reduced to just some fuselage segment missing and
the local infrastructure fittings shortened.)
i.e. a simple -MAX8 shrink.

So it will be cheaper to make, have more range, but also be heavier.

I suppose this makes it less than optimal for WN's "Texas Triangle" high frequency routes, but overall the extra seats and extra range must be a win.

It'll also make substituting a full -7 with a -700 problematic. The old WN wouldn't like that, but this isn't the old WN, times change.

Channex757 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:16 pm

Won't Boeing have some read-across from the current BBJ on that? It comprises a -700 length fuselage with -800 wings. Maybe that will give them some cost reductions on the changes needed.

pabloeing · Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:07 pm

rotating14 wrote:
http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2016/07/breaking-turkish-airlines-buying-777x.html?m=1

It looks like TK will be a 787 and 777x customer. An announcement should take place at the Farnborough Air show.

This order would be amazing in number .....waiting ¡¡¡¡¡

vfw614 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:32 pm

Not sure about the wisdom of launching the Boeing 737-7.5. This is more or less a 737-400 neo, ehich, IIRC, had 164 seats max.

The problem is obvious from Boeing's explanation: They say the -7 is a 136 seater and the -8 is a 160 seater. This really is only true for carriers with a true business cabin or a very generous all-Y seat pitch in their 737s - which is really just a very small group of airlines that often will go for the CS300/CS500 in the future. In standard layout, the -7 is 148 seats and the -8 is 189/200 seats. Makes the most sense cabin-crew sense wise.

pabloeing · Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:58 pm

Al Baker after his B737MAX visit today:
Qatar CEO Al Baker says he will make a "very, very important announcement" at #FIA16 tomorrow.

JannEejit · Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:02 pm

A Boeing military deal with 'commercial' interests. Not sure what exactly the follow up support deal means, but following on from Airtanker operating the RAF's refuelling fleet and the handing over of search & rescue to a commercial operator (Bristow). Perhaps the RAF is on course to become the UK's biggest commercial airline after all...

Will the Poseidon be based on a 'MAX' concept or NG 737 though ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36763212

tjh8402 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:28 pm

JannEejit wrote:
A Boeing military deal with 'commercial' interests. Not sure what exactly the follow up support deal means, but following on from Airtanker operating the RAF's refuelling fleet and the handing over of search & rescue to a commercial operator (Bristow). Perhaps the RAF is on course to become the UK's biggest commercial airline after all...

Will the Poseidon be based on a 'MAX' concept or NG 737 though ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36763212

P-8 is in production and service. It's based on a 737-800NG.

Miquel787 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:40 pm

Is Al Baker going the Max...?? Maybe he,s
converting the 787 options to orders..dash 8 or dash 9? You never know what he.s got up his sleeve...Not surprised if he does....

CWizard · Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:19 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
P-8 is in production and service. It's based on a 737-800NG.

The P-8 is a militarized version of the 737-800ERX, a 737-800 with 737-900-based wings.[43][44] The fuselage is similar, but longer, than the 737-700-based C-40 Clipper transport aircraft in service with the U.S. Navy. The P-8 has a strengthened fuselage for low-altitude operations and Boeing 767-400ER-style raked wingtips, instead of the blended winglets available on 737NG variants......[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_P-8_Poseidon

WIederling · Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:27 pm

Revelation wrote:
It'll also make substituting a full -7 with a -700 problematic. The old WN wouldn't like that, but this isn't the old WN, times change.

MAX7 has sold what? ~60 items?
Having it siddle up to its bigger sister ( slightly less room but slightly more legs ) could ( but must not necessarily) produce more orders in that segment .... with a bit of luck without canibalizing -MAX8 sales turning a gain into just a game of musical chairs.

IMU it will come down to a "brand new competitive model" the press can simper over and reduced bills for Boeing from getting rid of a big bunch of seldom used parts from stores, IT, .. .

ericm2031 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:07 pm

pabloeing wrote:
Al Baker after his B737MAX visit today:
Qatar CEO Al Baker says he will make a "very, very important announcement" at #FIA16 tomorrow.

Guess he wasn't just bluffing. After delays to the A350, A380, and now the A320, he must be getting fed up. He also was harsh over the 787, but that was just 1 model, not 3. I wonder how fast Boeing can get them some 737 NG's. Guess we will see what all the fuss is about tomorrow.

qf789 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:13 pm

Its been reported that QR is advanced talks with Boeing on the 737, looking at 25-30 aircraft, a combination of 737NG and 737MAX

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/qatar-air ... 27363.html

gatibosgru · Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:20 pm

Good ole Al Baker

pabloeing · Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:37 pm

Al Baker today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 39jv-jZ-4o

ScottB · Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:39 pm

Revelation wrote:
I suppose this makes it less than optimal for WN's "Texas Triangle" high frequency routes, but overall the extra seats and extra range must be a win.

It'll also make substituting a full -7 with a -700 problematic. The old WN wouldn't like that, but this isn't the old WN, times change.

The question of whether a 737-MAX7 will be problematic for the Texas Triangle is way, way out in the future -- probably 15 to 20 years when the last of the 737-700s are being retired from the fleet. And by then, there could be a high-speed railway between Houston and Dallas, or your self-driving car may be able to convey you between the two cities door-to-door in roughly three hours while you work in your mobile office.

While it won't be quite as optimized as the original 737-MAX7 design, there will likely be some maintenance savings from greater parts commonality with the -MAX. It's also going to be more efficient than the -700 it replaces in any event.

Revelation wrote:
WestJet and Southwest both on board for the concept.

They're pretty much the target customers for the -MAX7. They're getting slightly more plane than they were expecting, but it's still a big improvement in efficiency over the -700. It wouldn't shock me if Boeing agreed to give them the -MAX7.5 for the original -MAX7 price given that doing the model as a shrink of the -8 will save Boeing money anyway.

Okcflyer · Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:10 pm

Speculation only but I bet they're paying less per
Frame. The weight pentalty isn't insignificant. The only reason I can think of to take the frames are for field performance.

That said, it makes sense to offer the entry option at lower margins (and lower total cost from internal savings) and then try to upsell to the Max8 mainly on seat cost reduction.

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