Farnborough Air Show 2016 - Airbus Orders

KarelXWB · Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:29 am

The 2016 Farnborough Air Show (11-17 July) is upon us and it would be appropriate to run three main threads on the major MOU / Order announcements. This thread is for Airbus announcements. 

No other discussion please.

OA940 · Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:52 am

I'm mostly waiting for the A350-2000/-8000 and the A350/787 EK order...

f4f3a · Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:57 am

Can see order for a321 neo the lr and high density

Waterbomber · Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:40 pm

I think that the show will be quite disappointing on the Airbus front.
We'll see the firming of previous orders but who is really looking to order with affordable oil prices, a huge inventory of used aircraft, the looming Brexit, as well as a banking and liquidity crisis centered around Europe?

Lessors are unlikely to place big new orders for A320NEO's as they are paying a premium for them against the CEO's, but airlines aren't willing to pay the same premium on the shot-term leasing costs given affordable oil and higher risks on the new engines.
The A321NEO LR is making a lot of noise, but the order intake has been rather shy. Boeing is making a lot of noise around the MoM.
Airlines have expressed interest in the LR but how many orders have we seen so far?

KarelXWB · Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:20 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
I think that the show will be quite disappointing on the Airbus front.
We'll see the firming of previous orders but who is really looking to order with affordable oil prices, a huge inventory of used aircraft, the looming Brexit, as well as a banking and liquidity crisis centered around Europe?

Airbus hinted we may expect several A350 orders.

OA940 wrote:
I'm mostly waiting for the A350-2000/-8000

Not gonna happen.

Beatyair · Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:57 pm

I can see the following:
- Virgin Atlantic announcing that they are switching there A380 order to A350-1000's.
- IAG buying a few CSeries for the group to fly into London City.
- Boeing could make a splash with a clean sheet 757 and the 737-7.5/737-9.5 MAX.

dubaiamman243 · Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:24 pm

OA940 wrote:
I'm mostly waiting for the A350-2000/-8000 and the A350/787 EK order...

I guess we won't see an order for EK. EK prefer ordering at DXB airshow.

aviationaware · Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:34 pm

Beatyair wrote:
I can see the following:
- IAG buying a few CSeries for the group to fly into London City.

Wrong thread probably, but no. Not after Brexit with the future of the city in question. No way.

Channex757 · Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:17 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
The A321NEO LR is making a lot of noise, but the order intake has been rather shy. Boeing is making a lot of noise around the MoM.
Airlines have expressed interest in the LR but how many orders have we seen so far?

The LR can be converted from existing A321 orders. There is no need for a customer to place a separate order just for that version.

It will come down the same production lines after all. As long as it's done before any long lead items needed start to be bought in, Airbus should allow the upsell.

flyabr · Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:52 pm

somebody (keesje i think) mentioned that Airbus has something like 200+ LOI on the books...hummm!

Btblue · Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:55 pm

aviationaware wrote:
Beatyair wrote:
I can see the following:
- IAG buying a few CSeries for the group to fly into London City.

Wrong thread probably, but no. Not after Brexit with the future of the city in question. No way.

I can see it happening. I flew from city last Monday to Majorca, Spain, where I am at the moment on holiday. The airport was rammed, full, hardly a place to sit let alone stand. The aircraft was full. Whenever I fly from city on a leisure route it's always full.

The new Mayor is Pro city expansion, BA have launched Alicante to their route network and are continuing to look at routes. I wouldn't rule out anything. Brexit will possibly have an impact but it won't happen overnight, if at all.

OA940 · Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:10 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
I think that the show will be quite disappointing on the Airbus front.
We'll see the firming of previous orders but who is really looking to order with affordable oil prices, a huge inventory of used aircraft, the looming Brexit, as well as a banking and liquidity crisis centered around Europe?

Airbus hinted we may expect several A350 orders.

OA940 wrote:
I'm mostly waiting for the A350-2000/-8000

Not gonna happen.

Well I have faith. Plus, Boeing is going 777-10X so they might wanna have defences ready.

N757ST · Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:39 am

Rumor I heard is that Airbus wants upward of 10 million to convert an a321neo to the LR model. That along with nebulous performance specs might push airlines to the a330neo.

Channex757 · Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:17 am

Possibly $10m at sticker price. Allow for 50% discounts and it becomes a more manageable $5m, and even that is probably a bit on the high side. Some of it would be eaten up by thrust bumps on the engines and the cost of the tanks, plus structural changes and changes to landing gear and brakes.

Compare it to the cost of a set of winglets from APB and it's not a massive investment to gain the extra range. Range which looks like increasing as the GTF version is proving to be even more frugal than expected (per Lufthansa statements).

WIederling · Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:35 am

N757ST wrote:
Rumor I heard is that Airbus wants upward of 10 million to convert an a321neo to the LR model.

I regularly wonder were these nefarious "rumours" are created.

N757ST wrote:
That along with nebulous performance specs might push airlines to the a330neo.

Yeah, sure, buy a plane nearly twice the size because some one can't read the spec sheet.
Do you think that ever happens in professional circles?

dubaiamman243 · Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:28 am

Germania may order up to 25 A320 for B737 replacement.

Reuters.com

EddieDude · Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:18 am

dubaiamman243 wrote:
Germania may order up to 25 A320 for B737 replacement.

Yes, in addition to this rumor, media are reporting that VS will place an order for some A350-1000s. It is not clear though whether the A380 order will be officially terminated via the conversion thereof to the A350-1000 order.

LifelinerOne · Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:50 am

dubaiamman243 wrote:
Germania may order up to 25 A320 for B737 replacement.

Dutch media are reporting that Airbus has won this order.

Cheers!

hkcanadaexpat · Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:47 am

Rumours on twitter that the A359 test frame flew from TLS to LGW this morning to pick up Richard Branson and fly him to Farnborough to announce the awaited Virgin Atlantic A359 order.
A

KarelXWB · Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:53 am

OA940 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
I think that the show will be quite disappointing on the Airbus front.
We'll see the firming of previous orders but who is really looking to order with affordable oil prices, a huge inventory of used aircraft, the looming Brexit, as well as a banking and liquidity crisis centered around Europe?

Airbus hinted we may expect several A350 orders.

OA940 wrote:
I'm mostly waiting for the A350-2000/-8000

Not gonna happen.

Well I have faith.

Maybe in the future, not at Farnborough.

Plus, Boeing is going 777-10X so they might wanna have defences ready.

Not at Farnborough.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -o-427165/

Asiaflyer · Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:01 am

AirAsia is expected to place an order for up to 100 A321

From Bloomberg:
"Airbus Group SE is poised to win an order for as many as 100 jetliners from AirAsia Bhd., people familiar with the matter said.

The deal may be announced as early as tomorrow, said the people, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private. The purchase would consist likely of A321neo narrow-body aircraft, which have a list price of $125.7 million apiece. Buyers typically negotiate discounts."

Scorpio · Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:29 am

Another rumour: GoAir reportedly closing in on an order for about 70 A320neos:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-10/airbus-said-close-to-7-5-billion-a320neo-deal-from-goair

theginge · Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:45 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
Rumours on twitter that the A359 test frame flew from TLS to LGW this morning to pick up Richard Branson and fly him to Farnborough to announce the awaited Virgin Atlantic A359 order.
A

Seems so, its just landing at Farnborough after its short flight from Gatwick

slinky09 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:05 am

Now that SRB is waving from the top of the steps outside the A350, seems the VS deal is a cert. How many though I wonder!

pabloeing · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:17 am

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnErTC5WYAA2fgk.jpg

Olddog · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:25 am

Probably a dozen he will never take up after the advertising effect has faded

KarelXWB · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:28 am

ALC increases portfolio with three A350-900s and one A321:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... -one-a321/

Heavierthanair · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:33 am

G'day

ALC leases 4 A350-1000 to Virgin, confirming the rumor of Virgin acquiring A 350'ies

<http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/newsnow/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&ndmConfigId=1004992&newsId=20160711005291&newsLang=en>

Cheers

Peter

pabloeing · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:37 am

The VS A350 order confirm the dead of another A380 order.....this time Virgin Atlantic.

fcogafa · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:39 am

FARNBOROUGH, England--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Today Air Lease Corporation (NYSE: AL) announced long term lease agreements for four new Airbus A350-1000 aircraft with Virgin Atlantic Airways. The aircraft are from ALC’s order book with Airbus, with two delivering in spring 2020 and two delivering in spring 2021. These new A350-1000s will replace Virgin Atlantic Airways’ Boeing 747 aircraft built in the 1990’s on routes from London across the Atlantic.

KarelXWB · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:41 am

It's not a new order as ALC already has 5 A350-1000 aircraft on order.

speedbored · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:45 am

KarelXWB wrote:
It's not a new order as ALC already has 5 A350-1000 aircraft on order.

Perhaps not, but this is:
http://fia16.airbusgroup.com/int/en/news-media/press-releases/ALC-increases-portfolio-with-three-A350s-and-one-A322~query=P3RlbmFudHM9bmV3c3Jvb20mZGl2aXNpb249YmE0NWU4NTgtYjBlNC00ZDk2LWIyNWEtOGU2YTA3Yzk4Nzgx~.html
3x359 and 1x321 firm.

starbucks · Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:50 am

fcogafa wrote:
FARNBOROUGH, England--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Today Air Lease Corporation (NYSE: AL) announced long term lease agreements for four new Airbus A350-1000 aircraft with Virgin Atlantic Airways. The aircraft are from ALC’s order book with Airbus, with two delivering in spring 2020 and two delivering in spring 2021. These new A350-1000s will replace Virgin Atlantic Airways’ Boeing 747 aircraft built in the 1990’s on routes from London across the Atlantic.

First VS A350 rumors said 12 A350-1000, later reports spoke about 8-10, these 4 plus 8 still make 12, maybe we could expect a VS order of their own?

Andy33 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:00 am

If the purpose of the A350 order is to replace the 744s, there are currently 8 of these, so on a one-for-one replacement four A350s obviously aren't enough. Maybe shortly SRB will actually say something about what is happening!

KarelXWB · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:07 am

And here is the remainder: VS orders 12 A350-1000 jets.

That gives:

- 8 on direct order with Airbus
- 4 on lease with ALC

VS to operate a fleet of 12 A350-1000 aircraft.

Deliveries to start in 2019.

jeffrey0032j · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:10 am

speedbored wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
It's not a new order as ALC already has 5 A350-1000 aircraft on order.

Perhaps not, but this is:
http://fia16.airbusgroup.com/int/en/news-media/press-releases/ALC-increases-portfolio-with-three-A350s-and-one-A322~query=P3RlbmFudHM9bmV3c3Jvb20mZGl2aXNpb249YmE0NWU4NTgtYjBlNC00ZDk2LWIyNWEtOGU2YTA3Yzk4Nzgx~.html
3x359 and 1x321 firm.

Is the URL a hint of whats to come? A freudian slip perhaps?

hibtastic · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:12 am

Great news and a fantastic aircraft for VS. I'm excited to see what they do with the cabin.

starbucks · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:14 am

KarelXWB wrote:

axing the A380 order.

I would be careful stating things like this, all though it's a no brainer. No one has mentioned it so far after this order was announced

//Edit: As I was typing tweets like these were posted:

Virgin Atlantic not swapping A380 for A350 - keeping deferred order for 6 x A380s as an 'option'. #FIA16

KarelXWB · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:15 am

True, post updated. Just saw the following tweet:

Virgin Atlantic not swapping A380 for A350 - keeping deferred order for 6 x A380s as an 'option'. #FIA16

https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/752445522061950976

BobMUC · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:25 am

Airbus press release:

Virgin Atlantic selects the A350 as its future flagship
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... -flagship/

http://www.airbus.com/typo3temp/_proces ... e958fa.jpg

LuxuryTravelled · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:28 am

VS have confirmed to me that although the A350-1000 is a flagship, they will have them based at both LHR and LGW.

slinky09 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:41 am

pabloeing wrote:
The VS A350 order confirm the dead of another A380 order.....this time Virgin Atlantic.

Not according to VS, they confirm that the A380s remain on the deferred order book.

David L · Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:52 am

BobMUC wrote:
Airbus press release:

Virgin Atlantic selects the A350 as its future flagship

"2 Engines 2 Haul Long."

fcogafa · Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:06 am

What is the definition of a 'Flagship'? Seems pretty meaningless to me.

winterlight · Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:08 am

Wheeling out Branson every time also seems pointless. DL call the shots now.

nimool · Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:14 am

Wondering if we see/hear announcement from Airbus/IranAir about the deal finalisation?

terrificturk · Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:54 pm

Phew.... thanks to VS and SRB for the actual order... this thread sounded more like Airbus Rumours than orders... :lol:

N328KF · Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:59 pm

slinky09 wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
The VS A350 order confirm the dead of another A380 order.....this time Virgin Atlantic.

Not according to VS, they confirm that the A380s remain on the deferred order book.

All of the AvJournos on Twitter that are reporting this are saying that the A380 order is gone. For example:

https://twitter.com/thatjohn/status/752443973982154752

Perhaps VS is only saying that because the change order needs to be finalized.

Further clarification: The A380s are being converted to options.

https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/752445522061950976

KarelXWB · Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:03 pm

That tweet dates from 12:06 pm, that's before VS explained the A380 order is not canceled. Many people speculated the A380 order would be gone.

Channex757 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:21 pm

N328KF wrote:

Further clarification: The A380s are being converted to options.

https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/752445522061950976

No. Not necessarily.

An option isn't the same as converting to purchase options. It's an internal matter, not a deal with Airbus.

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