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B747ATC
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KLM's PH-BFA

Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:46 pm

I remember seeing KLM's very first B747-400 at Schiphol back in 1989: what an impressive aircraft it was and still is. Not long after that moment I had my own very first flights on a 747 (Garuda Indonesia's 747-2U3 PK-GSE and UTA's 747-4B3 F-GEXA) but both these Queens unfortunately have met the "Cutter's Torch".

As PH-BFA is approaching the end of her days, I was wondering:

1. Is she the hours/cycles queen of the KLM 747-406 fleet or is she surpassed by a later All-Pax or possibly a 747-406M Combi?

2. What are the actual hours/cycles on her today?

3. As PH-BFB stays around a bit longer (I read that a while ago in another post, can't mention a specific source) does she stand a chance of becoming the all-time 747-400 hours/cycles winner?

Kind of sad seeing her go; I still remember during on-the-job training trying to outclimb a 747-400 with a 747-300 that was catching up. My instructor couldn't stop laughing for the remainder of the shift, and it was a lesson I never forgot..... :D
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM's PH-BFA

Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:09 pm

B747ATC wrote:
I remember seeing KLM's very first B747-400 at Schiphol back in 1989: what an impressive aircraft it was and still is. Not long after that moment I had my own very first flights on a 747 (Garuda Indonesia's 747-2U3 PK-GSE and UTA's 747-4B3 F-GEXA) but both these Queens unfortunately have met the "Cutter's Torch".

As PH-BFA is approaching the end of her days, I was wondering:

1. Is she the hours/cycles queen of the KLM 747-406 fleet or is she surpassed by a later All-Pax or possibly a 747-406M Combi?

2. What are the actual hours/cycles on her today?

Unfortunately I don't have the numbers for all KLM 747's. But PH-BFA had flown122.048 hours and made 16.424 cycles at the end of december 2015.
But up to (and at least) PH-BFF the numbers are all close to each other, but less then PH-BFA. (-BFB I'm not sure)

At the end of 2013 -BFC, -BFD and -BFF were the only 3 KLM 747-400's (3 of the world wide 4 747-400's) with more than 120.000 hours.
3. As PH-BFB stays around a bit longer (I read that a while ago in another post, can't mention a specific source) does she stand a chance of becoming the all-time 747-400 hours/cycles winner?

-BFA is scheduled to retire on October 15. -BFB is indeed scheduled to stay longer; her days are (at least for now) numbered on November 1st 2018.
So I don't think she will became all-time 747-400 winner.

But you can probably take a bet a (or some) KLM 747-400's will be the winner of at least very VERY high up.
2 Ex-KLM 747-200's were once (or still are) the all time winners of 747 flight hours with each more then 134.000 flight hours. (that includes their life with Southern Air)
Kind of sad seeing her go; I still remember during on-the-job training trying to outclimb a 747-400 with a 747-300 that was catching up. My instructor couldn't stop laughing for the remainder of the shift, and it was a lesson I never forgot..... :D

Indeed very sad.

More then 45 years of KLM 747's (first one deliverd on January 16th, 1971) and in about 4 years she will be gone.
Amsterdam Schiphol Airport without KLM 747's will be a very weird and lonely sight.

This week I took a last look at the last remaining Martinair MD-11 (PH-MCP which just arrived at Mojave minutes ago) also once a very common sight at Amsterdam.
Since Friday no more wide-body trijets at Amsterdam.

I know the new aircraft are better, more efficient etcetera but airports will become a very boring sight with only wide-body twins and no more trijets and quads (the odd A380 not counted)
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
A388
Posts: 7988
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Re: KLM's PH-BFA

Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:25 am

I wonder whether the KL 744's wearing the new livery will be sent to Curacao once the 744's that fly to Curacao now will start being phased out. I still haven't seen the new livery of KL on their 744's :(


A388
 
Oscar14
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Re: KLM's PH-BFA

Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:14 am

PH-BFD is KLMs most flown 74. At the moment she has +- 135000 hrs flown. She will be gone in the next few months though!
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM's PH-BFA

Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:13 pm

A388 wrote:
I wonder whether the KL 744's wearing the new livery will be sent to Curacao once the 744's that fly to Curacao now will start being phased out. I still haven't seen the new livery of KL on their 744's :(


A388

There are now only 2 747's with the new livery; PH-BFT (1st one) and PH-BFV.
PH-BFW is currently enduring a D-check in Jakarta (already gone for more than 2 months) and will get the new livery and apparently their newest 747 (PH-BFY) will undergo a D-check in late 2017.
So most likely only these 4 747's will wear the new livery. (which looks hideous IMHO)

It looks KLM only sends full-pax 747's to Curacao (no combi's) and since -BFT, -BFV ánd -BFW are all Combi's; you'll have to wait for -BFY at early 2018 for a 747 with new livery at CUR.
If KLM doesn't change the aircraft on this route at least which is very likely since many 747's will be phased out before that date.
Oscar14 wrote:
PH-BFD is KLMs most flown 74.

Wow, didn't know that. KLM 747's will sure be hours/cycles queens!

Do you happen to have more hours/cycles numbers off other KLM aircraft?
I would really appreciate it if you could share them!
At the moment she has +- 135000 hrs flown. She will be gone in the next few months though!

Indeed. Only 4 months to go :cry: ...
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
PietPiloot
Posts: 73
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Re: KLM's PH-BFA

Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:27 pm

Not so long ago I discovered a tape with a news item broadcasted on Dutch TV when the first B747-400 was delivered to KLM. I put it on Youtube:

https://youtu.be/j-336ahshJA
 
A388
Posts: 7988
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: KLM's PH-BFA

Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:29 am

Iemand91 wrote:
A388 wrote:
I wonder whether the KL 744's wearing the new livery will be sent to Curacao once the 744's that fly to Curacao now will start being phased out. I still haven't seen the new livery of KL on their 744's :(


A388

There are now only 2 747's with the new livery; PH-BFT (1st one) and PH-BFV.
PH-BFW is currently enduring a D-check in Jakarta (already gone for more than 2 months) and will get the new livery and apparently their newest 747 (PH-BFY) will undergo a D-check in late 2017.
So most likely only these 4 747's will wear the new livery. (which looks hideous IMHO)

It looks KLM only sends full-pax 747's to Curacao (no combi's) and since -BFT, -BFV ánd -BFW are all Combi's; you'll have to wait for -BFY at early 2018 for a 747 with new livery at CUR.
If KLM doesn't change the aircraft on this route at least which is very likely since many 747's will be phased out before that date.
Oscar14 wrote:
PH-BFD is KLMs most flown 74.


Thanks lemand91. So we might get PH-BFY in the new livery to Curacao in the future. I agree with you that maybe the chances of getting more 747's to Curacao in the new livery increases if KL reshuffles the aircraft rotations when more 747's are phased out resulting in registrations that usually are not sent to Curacao end up flying to Curacao because of 747 "shortages" so to speak.

A388
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM's PH-BFA

Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:46 am

A388 wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
A388 wrote:
I wonder whether the KL 744's wearing the new livery will be sent to Curacao once the 744's that fly to Curacao now will start being phased out. I still haven't seen the new livery of KL on their 744's :(


A388

There are now only 2 747's with the new livery; PH-BFT (1st one) and PH-BFV.
PH-BFW is currently enduring a D-check in Jakarta (already gone for more than 2 months) and will get the new livery and apparently their newest 747 (PH-BFY) will undergo a D-check in late 2017.
So most likely only these 4 747's will wear the new livery. (which looks hideous IMHO)

It looks KLM only sends full-pax 747's to Curacao (no combi's) and since -BFT, -BFV ánd -BFW are all Combi's; you'll have to wait for -BFY at early 2018 for a 747 with new livery at CUR.
If KLM doesn't change the aircraft on this route at least which is very likely since many 747's will be phased out before that date.
Oscar14 wrote:
PH-BFD is KLMs most flown 74.


Thanks lemand91. So we might get PH-BFY in the new livery to Curacao in the future. I agree with you that maybe the chances of getting more 747's to Curacao in the new livery increases if KL reshuffles the aircraft rotations when more 747's are phased out resulting in registrations that usually are not sent to Curacao end up flying to Curacao because of 747 "shortages" so to speak.
A388

When -BFY returns from D-check early 2018, only 11 747's will be left in KLM's fleet, including -BFY.
Consisting of 5 full-pax and 6 Combi. (KLM has had a total of 7 full-pax 747-400's including 2 combi's that were converted to full-pax).
With so many 747's leaving the fleet; their routes will be cut as well.

But I can't look into the future that far. But since KLM just changed equipment on their SXM route (which used to go AMS-SXM-CUR-AMS and now non-stop AMS-SXM-AMS from October) , you can bet they will change equipment on the CUR route as well.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
A388
Posts: 7988
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Re: KLM's PH-BFA

Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:13 pm

I see what you mean Iemand91 and I agree with you. I'm just trying to determine how big the chances are that KL will send the 744's who are/will be flying with the new livery to Curacao. We will get BFY for sure, I do believe that but I was just wondering which other 744's we might get when the 744's that are now sent to Curacao will be phased out (such as BFA, BFB, BFH, BFN, BFO come to mind). If KL intends to replace the 744 capacity on a one-on-one basis than we will get the 77W which is what I believe will happen when the 744's are phased. I'm just wondering which 744's will be sent to Curacao during the phase out period of the 744 fleet itself.

A388
 
Joost
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

Re: KLM's PH-BFA

Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:12 pm

A388 wrote:
If KL intends to replace the 744 capacity on a one-on-one basis than we will get the 77W which is what I believe will happen when the 744's are phased. I'm just wondering which 744's will be sent to Curacao during the phase out period of the 744 fleet itself.

A388

KLM since long has an operational fleet deployment strategy that is built around flexibility: there are no differences between the various registrations, so any 744 will fly any 744 route. 
There are only 3/4 possible exceptions:

1) Asia Livery: to TPE, they need to fly Asia livery birds. But they have plenty of Asia livery aircraft to shuffle;
2) Operational restrictions during refurbishment or other mods: when the 747s were receiving the new WBC, ops had to distinguish between new and old WBC, mostly because of the different seat count (42 vs 35); similarly, when the 737s were in the process of getting winglets, the winglet-birds were deployed to the liks of IST and TLV;
3a) Operational restrictions for specific aircraft MEL items, which might reduce range or impose other restrictions;
3b) Operational benefits of deploying specific aircraft on longer routes, most notably when planes with recently-water washed engines are deployed on the longest routes;

Other than these, each aircraft is suitable for any route and are used as such. Currently, all 7 744s are deployed to CUR.
In the near future, the longest 744-routes will be cut when the 744s will be retired. AMS-SFO (summer 7x weekly 744) will receive 7x 77W in S17; AMS-DEL (Winter 7x 744) will receive the 772. PVG (mix 744/74M) will receive a mix of 777/787 and ICN will retain 2x 744.

That makes that CUR, NBO, PBM and some flights to ICN and LAX are the remaining flights for (most likely) 5x 744. That's some spare capacity, but that's probably not a bad idea for 25+ year old frames. The chance that CUR will receive the new-livery PH-BFY is therefore 20% per flight ;-)

CUR is a good candidate for a small fleet: the flight, especially without the SXM stop, makes a rotation in less than 24 hours so one frame can fly AMS-CUR all the time. Planning-wise, when you want to have a constant flight schedule (same dept time every day), you'll need quite some frames for longer routes. 10-hour flights are perfect for a small fleet. (Just like the 333). I expect CUR to be one of the last 747 stations.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM's PH-BFA

Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:27 pm

Joost wrote:
1) Asia Livery: to TPE, they need to fly Asia livery birds. But they have plenty of Asia livery aircraft to shuffle;

Not really. Asia liveries and regular liveries are interchangeble. In fact; their Skyteam livery 777-300ER is currently on it's way to TPE.

I've searched several times why KLM still has Asia liveries and I still haven't found the real reason.
I expect CUR to be one of the last 747 stations.

I'll add Montreal and Toronto to the list.

This is a common sight at Schiphol. It's a damn shame it will be all twins in about 3-4 years :cry: ...

Image
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/

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