dakotasport
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Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:17 pm

Hello Fellow Anetters!

As This airline has begun serving Toronto, it's grown my attention, namely their A330 fleet's age. Are there any plans on replacing these birds with new metal anytime soon??
 
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Polot
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:21 pm

I suspect they will be replaced by newer, but still secondhand, A330s. They recently got an ex-SQ A330 that is only 6 years old.
 
sf260
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:02 pm

The first "steering comitee" for long haul fleet renewal was held in May, they are now looking at the various options and the direction should be clear before the end of this year. The replacement will start at the end of 2018.

I think the most realistic option is replacing the current A330s with newer A330ceo (such as the relatively young SQ birds). An interesting option would be to go for A330neo, I think it fits perfectly in the current network and enables destination such as US west coast and Far East.
As for 787/350, I don't see how they can get slots for either in 2018 if they sill have to decide what aircraft it's going to be. (Even if LH take full control over SN in September, I don't see how that's going to change things)
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:12 pm

Wonder if DL is planning on picking up some of them.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
Scorpio
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:15 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
Wonder if DL is planning on picking up some of them.

Why on earth would they do that?
 
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Polot
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:20 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
Wonder if DL is planning on picking up some of them.

I doubt DL is interested in picking up a bunch of 20+ year old A330s in 2018+ when they have 50 A339/A350s slated for delivery (+18 787s starting in 2020).
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:30 pm

Scorpio wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
Wonder if DL is planning on picking up some of them.

Why on earth would they do that?


DL has been picking up used aircraft. WN plans on selling some extra 737-700s, and SQ is selling 777s to DL. Just about their entire 717 fleet were formerly with AirTrans. There's nothing wrong with buying used aircraft. They're relatively inexpensive, so IMHO it is a good option for a short period of time.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
Scorpio
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:36 pm

lavalampluva wrote:

DL has been picking up used aircraft. WN plans on selling some extra 737-700s, and SQ is selling 777s to DL. Just about their entire 717 fleet were formerly with AirTrans. There's nothing wrong with buying used aircraft. They're relatively inexpensive, so IMHO it is a good option for a short period of time.


We all know DL buys second hand planes if the conditions are right, but they're not in the habit of buying planes that are 10 years or more older than the new-builds of the same type they're operating, as would be the case here.
 
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Polot
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:42 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
Scorpio wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
Wonder if DL is planning on picking up some of them.

Why on earth would they do that?


DL has been picking up used aircraft. WN plans on selling some extra 737-700s, and SQ is selling 777s to DL. Just about their entire 717 fleet were formerly with AirTrans. There's nothing wrong with buying used aircraft. They're relatively inexpensive, so IMHO it is a good option for a short period of time.

1) WN is buying up as many used 73G that they can find and has many sitting waiting to be converted to WN specs- they are not selling any.
2) Despite their reputation, DL hasn't bought and put into service any used widebodies since the late 90s.

Buying a 20+ used A330 is a completely different than the 717/MD-90s. Some of SN's A330s are among the oldest still in service (older than most of DL's widebody fleet), and far less capable than any of DL's. If DL buys them it would be for parts, not to operate them.

DL is not desperate for lift in this size category; as I mentioned they have 25 shiny new A359s and 25 shiny A339s all set to be delivered at the end of the decade. In fact they recently deferred some of the A350s to better match capacity with expected demand.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:56 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
Wonder if DL is planning on picking up some of them.

Despite the reputation assigned to them by AvGeeks... DL hasn't bought used widebodies (for anything other than parts) for nearly 20yrs.

With almost 70 newbuilds already incoming, they're certainly not going to start with these aircraft.
They're either going to developing nations, or to the scrapper's heap.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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intotheair
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:59 pm

I would imagine SN would become an A330neo operator at some point. The A330 fits into its business model so well.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:02 pm

They now operate three different engines, first step would be to replace all the oldest A330s by younger, RR powered A330s.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
AA737-823
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:19 am

I actually think they'd be an ideal candidate for 788 and 789 operations. Capacity wise, at least. Though the 787 has long legs for their West Africa and US ops.
I flew in Brussels Air's A332 last year.... they're old birds. And they've got A333 line number 38 or something like that... very old bird, for a -330.
Time for a change!
 
Viscount724
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:43 am

AA737-823 wrote:
I flew in Brussels Air's A332 last year.... they're old birds. And they've got A333 line number 38 or something like that... very old bird, for a -330.
Time for a change!


Except for the most recent ex-SQ A330-300 built in 2010, SN's 5 other A330-300s are among the first A330s built, and the 3 oldest (line numbers 30/37/45) were the first delivered to Air Inter in early 1994. They're the 3rd/4th/5th built. The only older A330s are the two original prototypes which were refurbished and delivered to CX after several years with Airbus.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:23 am

Just looked at airfleets and to my surprise the average age of their A330s (18.7 years) is even more than that of their Avro RJs (17.7)!
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
sf260
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:10 am

There is a recent article in aviationweek: http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... et-renewal Is there anyone with access who can summarise in a few bullet points? I can't access the article, although I have a paper magazine subscription (I guess I'll have to wait a week until I am back home)

From what I gather internally, the fleet will be standardised on RR-powered A330s, starting in 2018, and with frames coming off lease from SIA, replacing SFM/SFN/SFO initially. Nothing too exciting.
 
propchaser
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:43 am

Makes sense to standardise with RR engines as the Lufthansa A330s and Swiss A330-300s are RR powered
 
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Channex757
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:54 am

Lufthansa doesn't have an issue with GE power on the A330 either as they recently acquired some for Eurowings. If anything it's the Pratt ones which are fleet orphans.

Can we PLEASE stop the silly "will DL be interested?" posts. They get annoying, are ridiculous and make Delta Airlines sound like a junkyard scavenger after every bit of cheap metal. Delta is a much more discerning and opportunistic purchaser. The old Brussels A330s are getting towards the time they will need massive maintenance visits so will be boneyard candidates.
 
wezgulf3
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:16 pm

Can we PLEASE stop the silly "will DL be interested?" posts. They get annoying, are ridiculous and make Delta Airlines sound like a junkyard scavenger after every bit of cheap metal.


It does get annoying! I'm surprised we never saw a thread about Delta taking the Ex Royal Air Force Tristars and Vc10's the other year!!

Wes...,
 
Beatyair
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:52 pm

American is removing there A333's from service in 2018 and KLM is removing there A332's. Both fleets are fairly young. And them there is ordering a few new ones.
 
sqsfo
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:54 pm

In the Long term, the fleet should be rationalised with LH group.

newer build a330s to do the Africa,North America Routes.
The AVRO rj, and etc should be replaced with the Cseries fleet. It seems like the perfect specs for Brussels.
 
Scorpio
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:15 pm

sqsfo wrote:
In the Long term, the fleet should be rationalised with LH group.

newer build a330s to do the Africa,North America Routes.
The AVRO rj, and etc should be replaced with the Cseries fleet. It seems like the perfect specs for Brussels.

Avros at SN are being replaced with A319s and A320s.
 
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res77W
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:56 pm

SQ will be offloading the A333's in the next few years, no? It would make sense to standardize with some more of those jets if possible.



Rowen
 
Viscount724
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:10 am

res77W wrote:
SQ will be offloading the A333's in the next few years, no? It would make sense to standardize with some more of those jets if possible.


SQ has already retired 6 A333s and Brussels Airlines has one in service, leased last March. The other 5 ex-SQ A333s are now operating for Hong Kong Airlines (2), Trans Asia Airways (Taiwan) (2) and WOW Air (Iceland) (1).
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:50 pm

sf260 wrote:
There is a recent article in aviationweek: http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... et-renewal Is there anyone with access who can summarise in a few bullet points? I can't access the article, although I have a paper magazine subscription (I guess I'll have to wait a week until I am back home)

From what I gather internally, the fleet will be standardised on RR-powered A330s, starting in 2018, and with frames coming off lease from SIA, replacing SFM/SFN/SFO initially. Nothing too exciting.


Few quotes from the article:

Meanwhile, Brussels Airlines is starting to look at options to renew its widebody aircraft fleet. All its A330s are leased and the oldest three A330-300s have an average age of 23 years, according to Aviation Week’s commercial aviation fleet database.

“We are issuing a request for proposals (RFP) to see what the market is offering,” Brussels Airlines CEO Bernard Gustin told Aviation Daily in a recent interview. “In 2018–19 the first batch of our old-generation A330s are leaving the fleet.” The RFP will be issued to all interested lessors, “but we are not excluding alternatives,” Gustin said.

...

Diversifying its fleet with Boeing long-haul twinjets is highly unlikely. “I am a big fan of a homogeneous fleet, of operating one fleet type,” Gustin said.


In 2018-2019 more RR powered A330s should become available on the market.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
fjhc
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:38 pm

While I think that the 787 could be a good fit for SN, the chances are about 0%. They can't really afford to splash the cash on any brand-new aircraft, and they certainly can't get any delivery slots for anything other than maybe some A330neos in any decent timeframe, so they're pretty much guaranteed to be buying more second-hand A330s. Some well looked after ex-Singapore Airlines jets will be perfect, which also fits into their (and the greater Lufthansa group's) fleet. They won't need to waste money re-training crew for an entirely new type, existing spares will be still applicable, and the capabilities fit well for their operations.
 
GripenFan
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:21 pm

Channex757 wrote:
Lufthansa doesn't have an issue with GE power on the A330 either as they recently acquired some for Eurowings. If anything it's the Pratt ones which are fleet orphans.

Can we PLEASE stop the silly "will DL be interested?" posts. They get annoying, are ridiculous and make Delta Airlines sound like a junkyard scavenger after every bit of cheap metal. Delta is a much more discerning and opportunistic purchaser. The old Brussels A330s are getting towards the time they will need massive maintenance visits so will be boneyard candidates.


I heard AA is retiring some MD-80s DL might be interested in ;-)
 
BXLITR
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:14 pm

fjhc wrote:
While I think that the 787 could be a good fit for SN, the chances are about 0%. They can't really afford to splash the cash on any brand-new aircraft, and they certainly can't get any delivery slots for anything other than maybe some A330neos in any decent timeframe, so they're pretty much guaranteed to be buying more second-hand A330s. Some well looked after ex-Singapore Airlines jets will be perfect, which also fits into their (and the greater Lufthansa group's) fleet. They won't need to waste money re-training crew for an entirely new type, existing spares will be still applicable, and the capabilities fit well for their operations.


The chances that SN will get the 787 are indeed 0%, first of all because SN wants to go to a uniformed fleet (hence the fact that the phased out all their Boeings and that in 2017 their Avros will have left the fleet). Also the LH group did not order the 787 so I doubt that they will order it for SN alone...

I also wonder why SN would have a press announcement for an 'order' of second hand aircraft. All of their A330 they added to the fleet, were second hand and there was never a big announcement in the press about it. Makes more sense to make such an announcement if they will order new aircraft. no?
 
sf260
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:24 pm

From what I gather, the A330-900 is still a serious contender. Previously it was reported that 7 or 8 A330 will come off lease in 2018-2019, however, I understand that some will be extended into the early '20s to accommodate a smooth transition at a rate of 2 a year to the new long haul fleet.
 
sf260
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:39 pm

It turned out that the "replacement" aircraft for SN will be RR-powered A330-300, 4 ex-Cathay (2006-08 builts) and the rest ex-Singapore. The aircraft will be bought by LH and then leased to SN.

I have also been told that the Lufthansa Group is looking to place a group wide order to replace ageing A330/A340, 767/777 in case of OS, there may be something in it for Eurowings/SN. The aim is to finalise the order later this year or early next year, however this was too late for SN as their current A330s start to show their age.
 
bmibaby737
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:52 pm

sf260 wrote:
It turned out that the "replacement" aircraft for SN will be RR-powered A330-300, 4 ex-Cathay (2006-08 builts) and the rest ex-Singapore. The aircraft will be bought by LH and then leased to SN.


Where has this been announced?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:54 pm

That is going to be a huge order, for the group.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:12 pm

And probably a split order.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:57 pm

sf260 wrote:
It turned out that the "replacement" aircraft for SN will be RR-powered A330-300, 4 ex-Cathay (2006-08 builts) and the rest ex-Singapore. The aircraft will be bought by LH and then leased to SN.


In case of SN, it makes fully sense to move to a single engine vendor.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Brussels airlines A330 fleet - Replacement??

Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:00 am

Curious: how many hours are on the ex-Air Inter A333s? One of them was the first A330 to fly in revenue service.

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