With over 200 replies in Australian Aviation Thread Part 142, Part 143 is now open for discussion

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=607499

In the last thread we discussed

Discussion of possible EK flights to NAN and/or WLG
Sydney Weather diversions
VA inflight service or lack of
Trans Tasman ops
EK to drop KUL stop on EK406/407 from 30th October, flight retimed, still operated by 77W
Initial QR load factors on SYD
AC has MEL on their radar, but only after success in BNE
Scoot flight has suspected fuel leak in SYD, flight back to SIN routed through PER
TG delays A350 service to MEL to mid September
Rumours that QR’s ADL services will be routed through MEL
VA secures rights to both PEK & HKG
MEL sees 8.3% growth I international passengers in May
HU files preliminary Changsha – Sydney schedule starting mid September
QF upgrades peak days services on MEL-LST from Q400 to 712
QF upgrades some peak day service MEL-HBA from 712 to 738
Return of seasonal QF BNE-HBA
QF will run additional SYD-HBA flights in support of the Sydney to Hobart Race
NZ sale of VA stake to Nanshan group completed
EY, SQ & Virgin Group now have a reduced share in VA
VA to get rid of TT’s A320’s, replace them with ex VA 737-800’s
VA expects a full year profit of $30-60 million
SQ to codeshare on VA’s 2 weekly flights to HIR starting 21 July
Future QF North American Routes
TK considering flights to MEL & SYD via DPS
SQ to use A350 on SQ207/208 to MEL from 1st September to 22 October 16
Both QF SYD-HVB and MEL-CFS to cease from first week of August
Beijing Capital Airlines to fly MEL-TAO-SHE 3 weekly from September
Alliance delivers first of 3 F100’s to QF
Xiamen Airlines to increase SYD from 2 weekly to 4 weekly for W16/17
CZ to use A330-200 instead of 788 on PER-CAN for W16/17

A travel website has an interview with Gareth Evans, the CEO of Qantas International, mostly about the SFO service. There isn't a lot that's new, but there's some fun gossip (including a trip report, SFO-SYD) but there is one very interesting comment:

http://travelskills.com/2016/06/25/a-ch ... antas-ceo/

A chat with Qantas CEO re LAX, SFO, 787, lounges

Qantas re-launched its SFO-Sydney nonstops last year, and since then, San Francisco has emerged as the #1 destination for Australian business travelers to the U.S., beating out both New York and Los Angeles.

That's a bit of surprise to me. It isn't sourced and the article doesn't elaborate on the claim, but presumably the writer has sources. Good for San Fran.

mariner

Re LAS - are the PDEW figures for LAX-LAS able to be split to show where the flight originates?

Re SFO - how do you measure #1 destination?

From the outgoing passenger cards from Australia more people are ticking business as reason for travel than leisure or VFR, than they do on flights to lax or dfw, which doesn't surprise me , nor does that say much about pax number but yields should be good considering business travelers are generally higher yield .

I think this may have been mentioned a few weeks ago but Air China are adding CTU-SYD and SZX-MEL on October 30th and 31st respectively, both using A332s:

CA429 CTU2330 – 1310+1SYD 330 257
CA430 SYD1500 – 2300CTU 330 136

CA767 SZX2330 – 1215+1MEL 330 x257
CA768 MEL2200 – 0450+1SZX 330 x136

qf002 wrote:

I think this may have been mentioned a few weeks ago but Air China are adding CTU-SYD and SZX-MEL on October 30th and 31st respectively, both using A332s:

CA429 CTU2330 – 1310+1SYD 330 257
CA430 SYD1500 – 2300CTU 330 136

CA767 SZX2330 – 1215+1MEL 330 x257
CA768 MEL2200 – 0450+1SZX 330 x136

Doing some dummy bookings, and it looks like the MEL SZX is actually available 4 times per week EX MEL on Tu, Th, Fr & Su. At least for the first few weeks anyway.
Are they dropping any of their MEL PEK or MEL PVG services to fund SZX?

I flew QF94 LAX-MEL on the 13th. Managed to score an upgrade to F, and it was a great flight.

I had some great luck that day, considering every other QF flight to Australia was delayed 3-4 hours because the QF11 LAX-JFK leg went tech that morning and left for New York 4 hours late. Lots of angry people in the First Lounge considering the SYD, QF 96 MEL and BNE flights all had to wait until 2:30-3:00am to pick up the connecting passengers from JFK. Apparently, this is a regular occurrence these days.

mariner wrote:

A travel website has an interview with Gareth Evans, the CEO of Qantas International, mostly about the SFO service. There isn't a lot that's new, but there's some fun gossip (including a trip report, SFO-SYD) but there is one very interesting comment:

http://travelskills.com/2016/06/25/a-ch ... antas-ceo/

A chat with Qantas CEO re LAX, SFO, 787, lounges

Qantas re-launched its SFO-Sydney nonstops last year, and since then, San Francisco has emerged as the #1 destination for Australian business travelers to the U.S., beating out both New York and Los Angeles.

That's a bit of surprise to me. It isn't sourced and the article doesn't elaborate on the claim, but presumably the writer has sources. Good for San Fran.

mariner

Interesting regarding the new 380 hangar in LAX, I wonder if we will see any improvement to their reliability with a dedicated facility there for checks during down time.

Also interesting Gareth Evans comments on the step down in capacity from 744 to 787 in SFO - I wonder if we could see SYD-SFO daily, and a three weekly MEL or BNE service to supplement this on 787s? Same for YVR - 787 daily from SYD, and three weekly ex-MEL to beat AC to the route? I'm looking forward to some more details regarding 787 routes.

I also wonder which lounges will next to be upgraded after LHR and BNE - MEL-Int is in need, how's SYD-Int, or AKL?

I always enjoy reporting season, seem to get a bit more news after a dry spell. Hopefully we hear more from VA too.

pugsley wrote:

Doing some dummy bookings, and it looks like the MEL SZX is actually available 4 times per week EX MEL on Tu, Th, Fr & Su. At least for the first few weeks anyway.

Are they dropping any of their MEL PEK or MEL PVG services to fund SZX?

CA's new MEL-SZX services are permanent x4 weekly. No, none of the existing routes will be compromised, this is simply CA expanding its network in Australia, the airline is building PEK (North), PVG (East), SZX (South) and CTU (West) as its hub's. The new SZX flights will be able to tap into both CA's and ZH's hub.

Melbourne - Beijing: x3 weekly (x1 daily during peak)
Melbourne - Shanghai: x4 weekly
Melbourne - Shenzhen: x4 weekly

smi0006 wrote:

Also interesting Gareth Evans comments on the step down in capacity from 744 to 787 in SFO - I wonder if we could see SYD-SFO daily, and a three weekly MEL or BNE service to supplement this on 787s?

When/if SYD-DFW goes to 789s I see SFO getting the A380 a few times a week, possibly daily during the summer. They can look at splitting into two flights (or just adding MEL-SFO by itself) down the track once they have more 787s.

smi0006 wrote:

I also wonder which lounges will next to be upgraded after LHR and BNE - MEL-Int is in need, how's SYD-Int, or AKL?

They've already announced that AKL will be next after BNE, starting next year IIRC. New SYD/MEL lounges must be in the pipeline as well but are probably quite tricky logistically.

Re: QF's SFO route. I tend to think that a daily 789 is likely a better fit for that market at this stage, but adding MEL-SFO could be an interesting idea.

MEL-SFO would appear to be better suited to UA though, but with a growing tech sector presence in the Victorian capital it may well look to make a jump into the market if UA does not make its move first.

Re: China services. With the flood of capacity coming online in the Australia-China market, particularly from SYD and MEL, it will be interesting to see how this is absorbed.

The Chinese carriers are stepping up their game with marketing and launch events though which is good to see.

In regards to AVV, I will be interested to see whether the Australian govt's move to classify the airport as a regional destination opens up new opportunities.

This could see many restricted markets open up, but I guess time will tell

With Joe Biden in MEL I was wondering whether he landed at Tulla or Essendon?

QF29 wrote:

With Joe Biden in MEL I was wondering whether he landed at Tulla or Essendon?

MEL would be the answer for that one.

There are 4 US aircraft parked there, including 2 X C-17 and 2 X C-32 (757).

SQ will add more capacity for W16/17

MEL
SQ217/218 upgraded from daily 77W to A380

SYD
SQ231/222 updated from daily 77W to A380, this will make 2 A380's a day on SYD-SIN for SQ

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... n-changes/

IndianicWorld wrote:

QF29 wrote:

With Joe Biden in MEL I was wondering whether he landed at Tulla or Essendon?

2 X C-17 and 2 X C-32 (757).

Bloody hell! Any pics? Are they parked down near the QF hangers or at the cargo ramp?

^^ I didn't get to take any but there are some on Instagram that I have seen.

The aircraft were parked over at the MAP area (formerly John Holland and Ansett hangers).

Also it seemed that some tree clearing has taken place around the area that the VIP terminal is proposed to be built. Looks like it may be preparing for getting this underway sooner rather than later.

Always a good day when getting to see the US Air Force C-32 / 757 in Sydney

Jin Air to fly ICN-CNS twice a week from mid December, currently its only temporary but if successful the route could be kept, to be operates by 777-200

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20160628000989

https://www.facebook.com/7NewsBrisbane/ ... 755265541/


QF 744ER lands and departs OOL due BNE fog

jetfuel wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/7NewsBrisbane/videos/1214139755265541/


QF 744ER lands and departs OOL due BNE fog

First time poster here! Great video of the Qantas 747 leaving OOL today. Interesting that they decided to divert to OOL than the usual SYD.

Based on what I can find, this is the old visit of a 747 to OOL since a QF 747SP in 1981...

Qantas16 wrote:

First time poster here! Great video of the Qantas 747 leaving OOL today. Interesting that they decided to divert to OOL than the usual SYD.

Exciting! Thanks for posting, and welcome.

From the Courier Mail, with video embedded. Jumbo jet lands at Gold Coast Airport thanks to fog in Brisbane. July 19, 2016.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/nati ... 988154c898

"A Qantas 747 jet has landed safely at Brisbane after fog forced it into an unscheduled landing at Coolangatta for the first time yesterday.

The 350 passengers and crew, who were due to arrive in Brisbane at 8am, instead landed at the Gold Coast, where they sat on the tarmac for two hours before finally reaching the state’s capital at 11.20am.

After a number of delays it left about 10.45am and arrived in Brisbane at 11.20.

Although the fog in Brisbane caused seven flights to be diverted, a Gold Coast Airport spokesman confirmed that this was the first time that a 747 passenger jet had been diverted to the Coast from Brisbane."

--------------------

I haven't had much to do with CBR lately and don't know if we have had any diversions, the last one I was aware of which was a 747 was in early June, and that does not happen often!

ADL is picking up a new China Southern service to Guangzhou effective mid-December, 3x weekly using A330s.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... e-changes/

CZ launches 3 weekly CAN-ADL from 12 December 2016

CZ663 CAN2200 – 0930+1ADL 332 136
CZ664 ADL1100 – 1740CAN 332 247

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... e-changes/

http://www.ausbt.com.au/china-southern- ... ou-flights

qf789 wrote:

CZ launches 3 weekly CAN-ADL from 12 December 2016

CZ663 CAN2200 – 0930+1ADL 332 136
CZ664 ADL1100 – 1740CAN 332 247

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... e-changes/

http://www.ausbt.com.au/china-southern- ... ou-flights

Great news for Adelaide! Any idea when we will see increase to BNE services?

Congrats ADL. A much needed addition to the offering there.

CZ are certainly an agressive player in the Oceania market, which had bold ambitions early on, retreated somewhat from those plans at one point but that has certainly stepped up a gear in recent times.

PER seemingly is the only market it hasn't yet really achieved significant traction though, even though it is the only airline to mainland China from that market.

qf789 wrote:

Jin Air to fly ICN-CNS twice a week from mid December, currently its only temporary but if successful the route could be kept, to be operates by 777-200

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20160628000989

Interesting. Great news for CNS, but an interesting time for a seasonal route, been wet and stinger season in the north.

Hey guys,
Is there another international airline looking at flights into Canberra?
Heard some interesting chatter but no idea who it could be...
I could speculate (without basis) that ANZ may look at AKL flights, or even an EK flight in the medium term, or perhaps FJ returning with better timed, better marketed flights ...
All eyes are looking at the launch of the Singapore Airlines adventure: not long now. Haven't booked yet, but I cant wait to try a Canberra-Wellington leg!
Cheers,
Bunumuring

PS: just occurred to me ... could it be a Chinese airline looking at Canberra? If CZ is going to launch Adelaide, maybe, just maybe, Canberra is next?

ATSB is investigating an incident involving an EK A380 landing at MEL last week it descended below minimum assigned altitude

the aircraft, registered A6-EDM (MSN 42), was operating a flight from Auckland on 14 July when the incident occurred. It was positioned around 28km south of the airport at the time.

“When cleared for the runway 34 RNP approach, the aircraft descended below its assigned altitude of A030 and out of controlled airspace. The controller alerted the crew and the aircraft climbed back to A030,

”


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nt-427539/

Im not convinced that the slowdown in discussion is not causing us to miss things. Like this:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation ... qaea1.html

Reported today that last week a management restructure at VA occurred. Speculation is that new hire John Thomas has been brought into VA to eventually replace Borghetti.

Original AFR article - google "Virgin hires John Thomas in management restructure" to get around the paywall - posted June 24.
http://www.afr.com/business/transport/a ... 623-gpq6tt

qf2220 wrote:

Reported today that last week a management restructure at VA occurred. Speculation is that new hire John Thomas has been brought into VA to eventually replace Borghetti.

This article in The Australian implies that Mr. Thomas will be CEO in all but name, leaving JB free to do - other things:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busines ... 815daed0ae

"Virgin Australia positions John Thomas as heir to Borghetti

In his new role as group executive, Virgin Australia Airlines, Mr Thomas will oversee the airline’s domestic and international business where he will lead flight and ground operations, cabin crew, engineering, network, sales, marketing and other functions.

The restructure will allow Mr Borghetti to focus on the airline’s partnership with its new Chinese shareholders, HNA Group and Nanshan Group."

JB will be able to do what he does best - schmoozing - this time with the Chinese.

mariner

SQ to increase ADL from 1st December 2016 to 31 January 2017 from daily to 10 weekly

http://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/gb/me ... 116-160721

Virgin Australia have announced they will be fitting wifi to their fleet of 737-800s, A330 and 777 from mid 2017. I expect Qantas will make a similar announcement in the coming months. http://www.facebook.com/virginaustralia/?fref=nf

The announcement seems to indicate they see a long term place for the A330 and 777 fleets. With both just been upgraded in the last 12 months and the wifi coming next year seems to me they will be round for the next 5 years at least.

a320fan wrote:

Virgin Australia have announced they will be fitting wifi to their fleet of 737-800s, A330 and 777 from mid 2017. I expect Qantas will make a similar announcement in the coming months. http://www.facebook.com/virginaustralia/?fref=nf

Qantas already announced wifi for the domestic fleet of A330s and 737s in 2017. No announcements of international Internet AFAIK (except for the A380s when they were first introduced. Was very disappointed it was never actually provided). Domestic is probably much easier as they are already equipped with Q-streaming for the passenger side.

allrite wrote:

a320fan wrote:

Virgin Australia have announced they will be fitting wifi to their fleet of 737-800s, A330 and 777 from mid 2017. I expect Qantas will make a similar announcement in the coming months. http://www.facebook.com/virginaustralia/?fref=nf

Qantas already announced wifi for the domestic fleet of A330s and 737s in 2017. No announcements of international Internet AFAIK (except for the A380s when they were first introduced. Was very disappointed it was never actually provided). Domestic is probably much easier as they are already equipped with Q-streaming for the passenger side.

Seems very odd that Qantas made an announcement with an long lead-in time, maybe they just wanted to say it before Virgin got a chance?

Will be interesting to see if NZ beats them too it, in there latest safety video there is an line "Wifi isn't available on this aircraft" seems like an line that has been dropped in for the fleet types yet to have it installed.

There has been word that the NZ 789 have started to fly around with SSID's being up-picked up as ANZ_ZK_NZ* so must be pretty close to launch? You would think the Tasman would be an pretty good market for Wifi, is there any word if the JetConnect 738s will get it?

zkncj wrote:

Seems very odd that Qantas made an announcement with an long lead-in time, maybe they just wanted to say it before Virgin got a chance?

Will be interesting to see if NZ beats them too it, in there latest safety video there is an line "Wifi isn't available on this aircraft" seems like an line that has been dropped in for the fleet types yet to have it installed.

There has been word that the NZ 789 have started to fly around with SSID's being up-picked up as ANZ_ZK_NZ* so must be pretty close to launch? You would think the Tasman would be an pretty good market for Wifi, is there any word if the JetConnect 738s will get it?

Qantas are supposed to roll out a 737 with wifi by the end of this year, beating Virgin according to the quoted timeline. An SSID just means on-board wifi, not necessarily external internet access. Both VA and QF already offer non-internet connected wifi on many aircraft domestically - that's how their on-board streaming to personal devices works. I'd expect it to be built in to most modern aircraft. I've read somewhere that certain airlines (Jetstar?) are considering or are already offering both seat back and streamed IFE in the same aircraft. I personally prefer seat back IFE.

[quote="allrite"]
Qantas are supposed to roll out a 737 with wifi by the end of this year, beating Virgin according to the quoted timeline. An SSID just means on-board wifi, not necessarily external internet access. [quote]

The NZ 77W,772,789,320 IFE systems do all have some form of an external Internet Connection. In the software upgrade last year, the system introduced realtime information being build into it.

One would assume when they did this upgrade last year, they would have installed hardware that was able to support in-flight Internet once they got approval from the CAA.

From 1st January 2017 CA will use 2 class 77W (392 seats) on PEK-SYD instead of A332, frequency will reduce from 11 weekly to daily

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -jan-2017/

Another new A380 operator to Sydney. Asiana will operate the A380 to SYD in November 2016 on selected dates

From Seoul, the A380 is scheduled on 13NOV16, 17NOV16, 18NOV16, 21NOV16, 22NOV16 and 26NOV16. Sydney departs on the following day.

OZ601 ICN2000 – 0820+1SYD 388
OZ602 SYD1020 – 1900ICN 388

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -nov-2016/

Saturday was pretty interesting at SYD with the high winds. All arrivals that I saw (from about 10am to 4pm when I was spotting at Rydges Hotel) were using runway 25 and about 95% of take offs were using 25 as well. Got some shots of a Singapore A388 and Qantas B744 taking off from 25, the take off roll for Qantas was very long.

IndianicWorld wrote:

PER seemingly is the only market it hasn't yet really achieved significant traction though, even though it is the only airline to mainland China from that market.

Very true. I know that the PER flights aren't always timed to meet connecting banks to North America which may be a reason.
Also, it's traditionally a very SQ and CX dominated market. Even Thai and to a lesser extent, MH seem to struggle.

I still also believe a link to PVG would be much more successful than CAN. You'll have a much bigger O&D market alongside VFR and connection traffic. Come on MU!

Also looks like CAN-ADL might not happen after all:

EDIT as of 2330GMT: China Southern around late-evening hours local time (19JUL16) removed Adelaide CZ663/664 booking from its website. GDS inventory also Zero'd out.

Flew out of MEL on VA Sunday morning and couldn't help but notice the international terminal seemed to be having problems accomodating all the aircraft. A GA and MH A330 were parked on hardstands between terminal 4 and the runway and were de-boarding by steps into a fleet of newish looking Melbourne Airport busses, a NZ A320 was parked right next to my flight on the F pier among the Tiger birds, the crew arrived by bus, a TT 738 was also on the Fpier among the domestic fleet and boarding by bus. A JQ 787 was parked at T4 and a Royal Brunei 787 was also parked near terminal 4 but I didn't see any activity around it. A lot of busses buzzing around. I've never seen this occur at MEL before, was quite surprised!

Both SYD & MEL have reported strong growth in international passengers for 2015/2016. SYD saw a 7.5% increase while MEL saw a 9.5% increase. Both airports reported strong growth from China with a 19.6% increase in passengers to SYD and a 21.9% increase to MEL

http://australianaviation.com.au/2016/0 ... in-201516/

MEL has been an operational nightmare for a while in peak periods, and there does not appear to be much urgency in dealing with it.

The airport built the new remote stands over near the new T4, the bus gates/airline lounges area in recent times and invested in a new fleet of buses but that's just a band aid action, not a solution.

The airport has put forward some exciting concepts for T2 but they appear to have gone no further than that.

Impressive growth for both MEL and SYD but neither really seems to be well positioned to handle a high growth scenario.

ben175 wrote:

Also looks like CAN-ADL might not happen after all:

EDIT as of 2330GMT: China Southern around late-evening hours local time (19JUL16) removed Adelaide CZ663/664 booking from its website. GDS inventory also Zero'd out.

Reports this morning suggest a final agreement to start services will be signed later this week

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/ ... 0ad0ba3c97

QF grows Asia-Pacific demand for busy summer period

SYD-DPS 5 weekly seasonal flights between 14 Dec 16 & 5 Feb 17
PER-SIN to go double daily between 12 Dec 16 & 6 Feb 17
SIN-MNL to go from 5 weekly to 6 weekly between 15 Dec 16 & 19 Jan 17
BNE-CHC to go from 3 weekly to daily from 30 Oct 16
BNE-POM will operate daily with 738 instead of 2 daily CNS-POM

ADL-BNE, BNE-ISA and BNE-TSV will see some services switch to 717 to allow 737 to be redeployed on international routes
A new MEL-MCY service will operate over Dec & Jan, 717 service

http://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media- ... ic-demand/

qf789 wrote:

QF grows Asia-Pacific demand for busy summer period

SYD-DPS 5 weekly seasonal flights between 14 Dec 16 & 5 Feb 17
PER-SIN to go double daily between 12 Dec 16 & 6 Feb 17
SIN-MNL to go from 5 weekly to 6 weekly between 15 Dec 16 & 19 Jan 17
BNE-CHC to go from 3 weekly to daily from 30 Oct 16
BNE-POM will operate daily with 738 instead of 2 weekly CNS-POM

ADL-BNE, BNE-ISA and BNE-TSV will see some services switch to 717 to allow 737 to be redeployed on international routes
A new MEL-MCY service will operate over Dec & Jan, 717 service

http://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media- ... ic-demand/

Interesting to see the 717 on these routes. Do any of them have Business class on them .The last one I flew on was all economy. Doing BNE>TSV & BNE- ISA a lot last year Business was well patronised on most flights

AN767

An767 wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Interesting to see the 717 on these routes. Do any of them have Business class on them .The last one I flew on was all economy. Doing BNE>TSV & BNE- ISA a lot last year Business was well patronised on most flights

AN767

Yep, there are currently 8 B717s with 12 business and 98 economy seats. A ninth aircraft is currently being reconfigured from all-economy to two-class, and a tenth is expected to follow later. They're actually really, really nice to fly on!

DeltaB717 wrote:

An767 wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Interesting to see the 717 on these routes. Do any of them have Business class on them .The last one I flew on was all economy. Doing BNE>TSV & BNE- ISA a lot last year Business was well patronised on most flights

AN767

Yep, there are currently 8 B717s with 12 business and 98 economy seats. A ninth aircraft is currently being reconfigured from all-economy to two-class, and a tenth is expected to follow later. They're actually really, really nice to fly on!

I agree I love flying the 717 .

AN767

qf789 wrote:

BNE-CHC to go from 3 weekly to daily from 30 Oct 16
BNE-POM will operate daily with 738 instead of 2 weekly CNS-POM

Correction, CNS-POM currently operates 12x weekly but with a Q400 (QFLinks only current international route), so overall not much change in the Oz-PNG capacity. However, I still think that is the most interesting change and will be interested to see how it affects PX capacity - they currently fly POM-CNS 9x weekly with F70's, BNE operates 12x weekly with a mixture of 767's and 737's and SYD operates with the 737. IIRC, QF codeshares on all these routes.

Not sure what the demand is like on POM-CNS, but this is an easier one to fill for PX as they appear to have some slack in their F100, F70 and Q400 fleet according to their online schedule (though assume some charters in there). However, an additional ~1,200 seats on BNE-POM is quite a lot, especially for a route that isn't known for its high load factors anyway. I have no doubt Qantas will fill the belly every flight, just interesting to see if PX cuts back a little.

Great to see overall QF expansion internationally from BNE though! First NRT, then CHC and now POM! Shame WLG won't be returning seasonally again over the summer though...

DeltaB717 wrote:

An767 wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Interesting to see the 717 on these routes. Do any of them have Business class on them .The last one I flew on was all economy. Doing BNE>TSV & BNE- ISA a lot last year Business was well patronised on most flights

AN767

Yep, there are currently 8 B717s with 12 business and 98 economy seats. A ninth aircraft is currently being reconfigured from all-economy to two-class, and a tenth is expected to follow later. They're actually really, really nice to fly on!

I see pro's and con's in this situation, I understand the down gauge of aircraft on routes that don't have the demand, I find it strange that ADL-BNE is one of them, I often crew that flight and usually Are close to capacity load factor. The media release didn't say if all or some of the flights would be replaced by B717 aircraft, so let's wait and see what happens there, I believe our Business Class customers and high tier customers will suffer on the ADL-BNE route now, this demographic of customer need a CSM onboard the aircraft who is suitably trained, can communicate well, know how to fix customer pain points on the spot or have access to a system that can benefit these customers, cobham don't have such system, nor do they have CSM's onboard their aircraft. And yes the B717 is a great little aircraft, and I'm sure that their flight attendants at cobham will do their very best, but for the complete product they really need a CSM onboard.