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Italianflyer
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FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:50 pm

I know there is a thread about the coup attempt...but this may deserve it's own thread. Rather interesting....bad news for Turkish summer financials.

https://skift.com/2016/07/16/faa-bans-t ... ed-states/
 
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enilria
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:06 pm

Well, who woukda thought the ME3 would outlast TK in terms of sanctions?
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:10 pm

enilria wrote:

Well, who woukda thought the ME3 would outlast TK in terms of sanctions?


They're just an attempted coup away themselves. :lol:
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:09 pm

I said it after the horrible attack on IST and same thing again now.

Delta was much maligned on this site for ending IST service as the security situation in Turkey got worse.

Sad situation in Turkey. Delta had good luck or good insight
 
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Stitch
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:10 pm

Hazarding a guess here - it sounds like Homeland Security is worried that IST's security is too impacted to guarantee proper screening of passengers and cargo at the moment. Once that has been re-established, I would expect the ban to be lifted.
 
HeeseokKoo
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:46 pm

As long as Turkey blocks air base used by US, US won't lift the ban. Some tension going on between two nations although the tension will very likely end soon.
 
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eksath
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:49 pm

US Embassy in Turkey statement is here
http://turkey.usembassy.gov/warden_info ... ly-16-2016
World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
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enilria
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:57 pm

Stitch wrote:
Hazarding a guess here - it sounds like Homeland Security is worried that IST's security is too impacted to guarantee proper screening of passengers and cargo at the moment. Once that has been re-established, I would expect the ban to be lifted.

HeeseokKoo wrote:
As long as Turkey blocks air base used by US, US won't lift the ban. Some tension going on between two nations although the tension will very likely end soon.

Hopefully
jfklganyc wrote:
I said it after the horrible attack on IST and same thing again now.

Delta was much maligned on this site for ending IST service as the security situation in Turkey got worse.

Sad situation in Turkey. Delta had good luck or good insight

I choose to hope it was just good luck.
 
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enilria
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:58 pm

Istanbul is more and more like Gotham City. What a questionable ad campaign that was.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:04 pm

Looks like my wife's trip might get extended again.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:44 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Looks like my wife's trip might get extended again.


Are flights to Europe affected? How about the ME3 hubs? She might be able to fly to a European hub and then get back home.
-Doc Lightning-

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kimshep
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:03 am

Stitch wrote:
Hazarding a guess here - it sounds like Homeland Security is worried that IST's security is too impacted to guarantee proper screening of passengers and cargo at the moment. Once that has been re-established, I would expect the ban to be lifted.


Hmm, long-time "lurker" on Airliners.net .. and now my first post ! :D

I'd agree with Stitch entirely. The original post also overlooks the point that the FAA has additionally stopped US carrier access to Turkey as well.

So, yes - it might be 'bad' for TK's financials ... but the US carriers will also share some of the same impact as well. I would expect that the USA ban is more 'cautionary' rather then anything else .. and should be lifted once the political situation in Turkey stabilizes.
 
mmahpeel
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:51 am

kimshep wrote:
Stitch wrote:
I'd agree with Stitch entirely. The original post also overlooks the point that the FAA has additionally stopped US carrier access to Turkey as well.

So, yes - it might be 'bad' for TK's financials ... but the US carriers will also share some of the same impact as well. .


You don't seem to understand, there is no US carrier with direct/nonstop service to Turkey. None. This is terrible news for Turkish and their attempt to provide service via the IST hub....
 
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:48 am

Not good news for TK. This has been a really bad year for IST and TK unfortunately, although the ME3 are probably happy.
 
kaitak
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:23 am

Terrible news for TK, with so many US flights ... what does it do now? There is a large number of connecting pax and this being the peak season, they probably aren't flying with low loads. Do they re-book pax on other flights?

Seems a bit of an over-reaction by the US against an ally; I had always understood security at IST to be quite tough (some pax have reported it to be aggressively so). Could the US not have sent a team over to assess it , rather than just slap a ban on.

Very bad timing for Boeing too; they were reported during last week's Farnborough show to be on the cusp of a 777X/787 order ... that's probably scuppered that for now.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:29 am

DocLightning wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Looks like my wife's trip might get extended again.


Are flights to Europe affected? How about the ME3 hubs? She might be able to fly to a European hub and then get back home.


Fortunately she is in Ukraine right now. We rescheduled her flight from Jul 5 to Jul 30, so maybe everything will quiet down in the next week. If not, I won't have her travel through IST.

She could fly ODS-VIE stay overnight then fly to LHR, IAD, or EWR, then fly to IAH. On the weekends it might be possible to fly ODS-MUC-IAH. I probably shouldn't route her through LHR, because she doesn't have a visa to enter the UK in case a connecting flight gets cancelled or delayed. I could also send her ODS-KBP-AMS-IAH, or ODS-KBP-CDG-IAH. I already delayed her trip home due to the terrorist incident at IST just a week prior to her previously scheduled return.

I was just thinking about possibly using the travel insurance to cover any difference in airfare. That's probably a legitimate use of the insurance.
 
stlgph
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:16 am

Get your wallets ready kids, once this all clears up those fall airfare specials on Turkish will be a *doozy*!
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ushermittwoch
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:45 am

stlgph wrote:
Get your wallets ready kids, once this all clears up those fall airfare specials on Turkish will be a *doozy*!


That's why I am waiting to book my two week fall vacation... ;)
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
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jetfuel
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:50 am

Seems nobody told Turkish Airlines. I just tried making a booking 1 minute ago and they are still taking money


Image
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
usflyer msp
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:11 pm

Honestly, I would bet good money that TK is flying to the US again by this time next week. I think this is a temporary measure while the US assesses the fallout from the coup attempt. One things have settled down in a few days, TK will get their flights back...
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:20 pm

Crowds storming into IST airport without hinderence was really strange, it should not have happened no matter what.
 
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kgaiflyer
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:49 pm

jetfuel wrote:
Seems nobody told Turkish Airlines. I just tried making a booking 1 minute ago and they are still taking money


Image


One of my students just emailed me that her father is already flying in on TK 7 (IST-IAD).

Apparently everything has settled down.
 
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spinkid
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:43 pm

Flight Aware shows everything into and out of the U.S. Cancelled through monday.

I suspect when the U.S. Air base in Turkey reopens, this ban will be lifted.

That is an awful lot of lift between the two countries to be filled in any season, let alone summer.
 
fraT
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:45 pm

kgaiflyer wrote:
jetfuel wrote:
Seems nobody told Turkish Airlines. I just tried making a booking 1 minute ago and they are still taking money


Image


One of my students just emailed me that her father is already flying in on TK 7 (IST-IAD).

Apparently everything has settled down.


TK7 is canceled today and tomorrow as are all other flights to the U.S.
 
ThReaTeN
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:56 pm

kaitak wrote:
Seems a bit of an over-reaction by the US against an ally; I had always understood security at IST to be quite tough (some pax have reported it to be aggressively so). Could the US not have sent a team over to assess it , rather than just slap a ban on.

What difference does it make how tough security normally is on an occasion when it has been completely broken, and normal routines have been abandoned? The tarmac was swarming with people who had stormed past the security checkpoints - how have these people been subject to "tough security" exactly? It would have been trivial to bring for instance explosives into the secure area during the chaos, and until the security barrier has been restored and the entire airport has been swept for stored dangerous objects, the airport should be considered compromised. Not banning flights out of IST would have been negligent, and the fact that the EU (as opposed to the US) didn't mind taking the risk of a blown-up airliner or two doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
 
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OA260
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:05 pm

One would expect the whole airport to be cleared and searched for many hours to return the area past security to a sterile condition. It would be a huge gamble if they did not. As stated anything could have been brought through and hidden ready for a later attack. Weapons/knives etc...
 
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Channex757
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:15 pm

OA260 wrote:
One would expect the whole airport to be cleared and searched for many hours to return the area past security to a sterile condition. It would be a huge gamble if they did not. As stated anything could have been brought through and hidden ready for a later attack. Weapons/knives etc...

There's also whether coup participants have made it onto the aircraft, or other people that the USA might not want onboard an inbound flight.

I was reading earlier that one huge problem is that Incirclik has a substantial number of US nuclear freefall weapons stored there for use by NATO forces. Hopefully President Obama moves fast to secure those if there is any instability in the Turkish armed forces. They need to be on C-17 transports and quickly.
 
hayzel777
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:45 pm

spinkid wrote:
Flight Aware shows everything into and out of the U.S. Cancelled through monday.

I suspect when the U.S. Air base in Turkey reopens, this ban will be lifted.

That is an awful lot of lift between the two countries to be filled in any season, let alone summer.


It opened 4 hours ago.
 
MaRoFu
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:35 pm

I hope my friend that's on vacation in Turkey (since mid-June, before Ataturk Airport bombing and coup attempt) can still get back on time.
Airports I have been to:
DFW, EWR, IAH, JFK, LAS, LGA, MCO, MIA, NRT, ORD, PHL, PHX, SEA, SLC, YTZ, YYZ
 
kimshep
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:23 am

mmahpeel wrote:
You don't seem to understand, there is no US carrier with direct/nonstop service to Turkey. None.


Yes, I DO understand. mmahpeel. I don't see any reference in my post suggesting that "US carriers provide direct/nonstop services to Turkey". That was your assumption.

"Common sense" would indicate that Government issued warnings, policies or directives (whether they be FAA, DoT, IMMI etc) issued by ANY Government will have a negative affect on travel plans to troublesome locations. That impact includes airline revenue for direct/nonstop OR codeshare multi-carrier flights .. and will include AA, DL, UA, JB and their respective European hub partners. The travelling public takes note of such warnings and review, rebook and/or cancel accordingly.

That costs revenue and profit.
 
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hvusslax
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:13 am

Since the EU has in its infinite wisdom decided to take no action regarding a complete security meltdown at IST, I wonder if Turkish could strike a deal with a European airport to have US-bound flights stop over there and screen the passengers and baggage before continuing to the US or would such a stop require 5th freedom rights?
 
EIDL
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:26 am

hvusslax wrote:
Since the EU has in its infinite wisdom decided to take no action regarding a complete security meltdown at IST, I wonder if Turkish could strike a deal with a European airport to have US-bound flights stop over there and screen the passengers and baggage before continuing to the US or would such a stop require 5th freedom rights?


Stops for security re-screening do not require fifth freedom rights assuming tickets aren't sold. They're currently done for KU at SNN for instance.
 
dubaiamman243
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:20 pm

FAA bans US-Turkey flights until Sepetmber http://bit.ly/2a3zcub
The next airline CEO :crossfingers:
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:35 pm

Wow! Wow! Wow!

A.net is gonna light up here.

Talk about a disaster for TK!
 
thomasphoto60
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:40 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Wow! Wow! Wow!

A.net is gonna light up here.

Talk about a disaster for TK!


Yep, I would not be too shocked to see TK pull a US route as a result.
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
usflyer msp
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:42 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Wow! Wow! Wow!

A.net is gonna light up here.

Talk about a disaster for TK!


What I find most interesting is that TK cannot even operate via a third-country. That is pretty harsh.

"As it stands, all airline carriers, regardless of country of registry, are prohibited from flying into the United States from Turkey either directly or via third country"
 
BravoOne
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:23 pm

I see where hundreds of Turkish military pilots have been arrested. This think is far from over and the outcome is anybody's guess at this hour. Certainly bad for regional stability which is very much needed.
 
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FLIHGH
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:23 pm

mmahpeel wrote:
kimshep wrote:
Stitch wrote:
I'd agree with Stitch entirely. The original post also overlooks the point that the FAA has additionally stopped US carrier access to Turkey as well.

So, yes - it might be 'bad' for TK's financials ... but the US carriers will also share some of the same impact as well. .


You don't seem to understand, there is no US carrier with direct/nonstop service to Turkey. None. This is terrible news for Turkish and their attempt to provide service via the IST hub....

UPS has a non-stop to Turkey.
 
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TK787
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:18 pm

From a Turkish aviation site, it is said that FAA just finished its walk thru at IST with Turkish Civil Aviation Authority, Turkish Security/Police Units, TAV the IST operator, TK and FAA thinks the flights might resume shortly, waiting for a final decision from D.C. Probably we will hear something before the end of the day for tomorrow's flights.
 
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TK787
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:22 pm

Long lines at IST, the government trying to make sure nobody is trying to get out with their special (gray/green colored public servant) passports:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKbQ1CKq2Eo
 
jbelardo
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:23 pm

TK787 wrote:
From a Turkish aviation site, it is said that FAA just finished its walk thru at IST with Turkish Civil Aviation Authority, Turkish Security/Police Units, TAV the IST operator, TK and FAA thinks the flights might resume shortly, waiting for a final decision from D.C. Probably we will hear something before the end of the day for tomorrow's flights.


Can you provide link, even if in turkish?
 
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TK787
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:41 pm

jbelardo wrote:
TK787 wrote:
From a Turkish aviation site, it is said that FAA just finished its walk thru at IST with Turkish Civil Aviation Authority, Turkish Security/Police Units, TAV the IST operator, TK and FAA thinks the flights might resume shortly, waiting for a final decision from D.C. Probably we will hear something before the end of the day for tomorrow's flights.


Can you provide link, even if in turkish?

http://www.kokpit.aero/faa-ucus-yasagi-yesil-isik
 
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RobK
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:18 pm

TK787 wrote:
jbelardo wrote:
TK787 wrote:
From a Turkish aviation site, it is said that FAA just finished its walk thru at IST with Turkish Civil Aviation Authority, Turkish Security/Police Units, TAV the IST operator, TK and FAA thinks the flights might resume shortly, waiting for a final decision from D.C. Probably we will hear something before the end of the day for tomorrow's flights.


Can you provide link, even if in turkish?

http://www.kokpit.aero/faa-ucus-yasagi-yesil-isik


Given that's a Turkish (aviation) media site and it's now well known that Erdogan controls the release of content on such sites, it should be taken with a pinch of salt. The FAA tells a completely different story and it's not difficult to figure out which one has the most credibility.
 
mict
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:41 pm

I am booked on IST-ATL on August 31st, should I switch to the next day's flight?
Quite annoying as I have an ATL-DTW booked right after the TK flight on a separate ticket...
 
jbelardo
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:00 pm

mict wrote:
I am booked on IST-ATL on August 31st, should I switch to the next day's flight?
Quite annoying as I have an ATL-DTW booked right after the TK flight on a separate ticket...


My understanding is that the NOTAM (Notice to Airmen) was issued on July 15th during a time of great uncertainty (the outcome of the coup and status of the airport were not yet certain). As a precaution, all flights were banned until September 1, with the situation to be revisited regardless of events on the ground by August 15th at the latest.

Now that operations are running normal and the government appears to have stabilized, it is my understanding that the US will now begin reevaluating very shortly (there are indications this has happened today) in order to determine that the secure part of the airport is in fact secure, given that there were security breaches (chaos) on Friday and Saturday. The fear would be, for example, an explosive smuggled into the secure area of the airport, or weapons hidden for later use.

I don't see why they would wait until August 15 to reevaluate; there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to do so.

All please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
 
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SQ22
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:08 pm

I have removed all off topic posts, feel free to start a new topic in the non-aviation forum to discuss if airliners.net is too US focused or not, but this thread is the wrong place to discuss this.
 
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TK787
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:38 pm

RobK wrote:
TK787 wrote:
jbelardo wrote:

Can you provide link, even if in turkish?

http://www.kokpit.aero/faa-ucus-yasagi-yesil-isik


Given that's a Turkish (aviation) media site and it's now well known that Erdogan controls the release of content on such sites, it should be taken with a pinch of salt. The FAA tells a completely different story and it's not difficult to figure out which one has the most credibility.

Fair enough, I am just sharing the link. If you want more info, you can contact the site owner. He is a.net member; "tozbek"
 
jbelardo
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:45 pm

TK787 wrote:
RobK wrote:
TK787 wrote:


Given that's a Turkish (aviation) media site and it's now well known that Erdogan controls the release of content on such sites, it should be taken with a pinch of salt. The FAA tells a completely different story and it's not difficult to figure out which one has the most credibility.

Fair enough, I am just sharing the link. If you want more info, you can contact the site owner. He is a.net member; "tozbek"


It is from Dogan News Agency which is often viewed as an enemy of the regime.
 
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TK787
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:41 pm

Just in. Ban is lifted as of 13:45 Eastern, about and hour ago.
https://skift.com/2016/07/18/turkish-ai ... ghts-soon/
 
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DocLightning
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Re: FAA Bans Turkish from US Airspace

Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:55 pm

TK787 wrote:
Just in. Ban is lifted as of 13:45 Eastern, about and hour ago.
https://skift.com/2016/07/18/turkish-ai ... ghts-soon/


I wonder how TK will make up for the backlog.
-Doc Lightning-

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