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doulasc
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National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:19 am

This is for National Airlines-NA Sun King. Were there ever routes that did not originate or terminate in Florida other than
the ATL-SFO route which was not profitable to National Airlines. It seems that all routes ended or originated in Miami or another
Florida city, especially with the milk runs with 3-6 stops.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:34 am

I was going to say SFO-ATL but you beat me to it.

National had a small hub in IAH in the late 1970s. Among others, they did SFO-IAH and SJC-IAH.
 
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RWA380
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:18 am

SEA-LAX & SEA-IAH were both NA routes, you can add SFO & SAN-LAX to that as well. A route map from 1979 showing both: http://www.departedflights.com/NA050179.html
JFK-AMS also.
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Aeri28
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:53 am

i remember my parents flew LAX-MSY back in 1976 or 77. Or were you talking about flights that 'continued onwards' to a Florida destination (which New Orleans flights may have, although I don't know if that particular flight did)..
 
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klm617
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:04 pm

One of the oddest ones AMS-JFK
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
superjeff
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:20 pm

When I lived in New Orleans, there was one flight that originated in New Orleans about 7:00am and operated MSY-IAH-LAX. That, and the inbound the night before were, I think, the only National flights that didn't touch Florida out of New Orleans.
 
jfk777
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:25 pm

Amsterdam to JFK, which at the time was per National the 6th biggest Atlantic market, was an odd market for National as they never tried any other JFK to Europe route. It probably had something to do with expanding their Miami to Europe system which included AMS from MIA at the time.
 
doulasc
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:06 pm

klm617 wrote:
One of the oddest ones AMS-JFK

Did Pan Am and TWA Fly AMS To JFK At the same time National did
 
MaxxFlyer
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:27 pm

doulasc wrote:
klm617 wrote:
One of the oddest ones AMS-JFK

Did Pan Am and TWA Fly AMS To JFK At the same time National did


Not sure about TW, but Pan Am did. AMS was in the early 70's an early recipient of 747 services.
 
BostonBeau
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:38 pm

I thought National was a very fun airline, but they always seemed to be on strike. I have heard that they made more money from the mutual aid fund than they did when operating, so they were never in a hurry to end a strike. Most of their Boston flights were to JFK, so I used it several times to make connections to European flights (before Boston had as many European flights as it does now). One thing they did that drove me crazy was when they were turning around a flight, they would unload the baggage from the arriving flight, and then leave it on carts on the tarmac while they loaded the baggage for the departing flight. So you'd take a 1 hour flight from JFK to BOS, then wait another hour for your bags to appear. I guess with a small station, not that many staff, and only a few flights a day there's no way to get around that with the luggage.
 
727LOVER
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:49 pm

By May 1979, National had quit BOS, PHL, BWI, PHF, DAB, TLH, PFN,....how MLB through the Pan Am buyout amazes me.
When did they start ZRH ?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Viscount724
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:45 pm

Another National flight that did not involve Florida was their daily New York (IDL then)-Havana DC-7 nonstop prior to the U.S. embargo.

MaxxFlyer wrote:
doulasc wrote:
klm617 wrote:
One of the oddest ones AMS-JFK

Did Pan Am and TWA Fly AMS To JFK At the same time National did


Not sure about TW, but Pan Am did. AMS was in the early 70's an early recipient of 747 services.


The Pan Am 747-100 that was hijacked to Cairo (after a top at Beirut) and blown up in September 1970, as part of the "Black September" series of terrorist hijackings, was operating AMS-JFK. That was the first 747 hull loss.
https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 19700906-0

An El Al 707 that had also departed AMS for JFK about the same time was also hijacked soon after takeoff but one of the two hijackers was shot and killed by onboard security guards and the other was captured and the aircraft made a safe emergency landing at LHR. Of the 5 aircraft hijacked as part of that operation, that LY 707 was the only one that survived. A Swissair DC-8, TWA 707 and BOAC VC-10 were hijacked to an abandoned military base in Jordan and were blown up.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:58 pm

In the first four months of 1982, I was working in LAS at a counter next to Pan Am; this was after PA took over NA. The route was MSY-LAS-SFO, on ex-NA 722s (not fully repainted - just covered the NA stripes and Sun King with the PA stripe and meatball.). I assumed it was an original NA route, but I don't know that for sure. They also ran two DC-10 charters on Sundays: 1 to DTW, not sure about the other. Also ex-NA machines, something like 362 seats, all coach, no bulkheads...you'd see all the way from front to back. I don't know if those charters were a carry-over from NA or if new to PA post-merger. Those two took up adjacent jetways, so my regular scheduled AirCal DC-9-80 parked in between, under the DC-10 wings.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
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klm617
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:40 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
In the first four months of 1982, I was working in LAS at a counter next to Pan Am; this was after PA took over NA. The route was MSY-LAS-SFO, on ex-NA 722s (not fully repainted - just covered the NA stripes and Sun King with the PA stripe and meatball.). I assumed it was an original NA route, but I don't know that for sure. They also ran two DC-10 charters on Sundays: 1 to DTW, not sure about the other. Also ex-NA machines, something like 362 seats, all coach, no bulkheads...you'd see all the way from front to back. I don't know if those charters were a carry-over from NA or if new to PA post-merger. Those two took up adjacent jetways, so my regular scheduled AirCal DC-9-80 parked in between, under the DC-10 wings.



The Pan m Charters to Detroit cam after the merger National never operated into Detroit. I have photographs of the PA DC10 siting at the international terminal at DTW
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:45 am

doulasc wrote:
klm617 wrote:
One of the oddest ones AMS-JFK

Did Pan Am and TWA Fly AMS To JFK At the same time National did


I think at the time that NA was operating JFK-AMS KL and AY were the only other airlines operating the route at that time
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
doulasc
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:00 pm

727LOVER wrote:
By May 1979, National had quit BOS, PHL, BWI, PHF, DAB, TLH, PFN,....how MLB through the Pan Am buyout amazes me.
When did they start ZRH ?

Why did National drop those cities and cut back service at JAX SAV CHS ORF.BY 1979 JAX had 6-7 flights from NA
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:51 pm

National July 1974:

Image

National May 1979:

Image

** Images courtesy of http://departedflights.com/
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
sspontak
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:54 pm

As a kid back in 1976 I remember flying JFK-DCA-JFK on NA. I was on a one day class trip to DC. It was a 727-100 southbound and 727-200 northbound. I remember the passenger load JFK to DCA on the Friday morning flight was very light but the return DCA to JFK Friday night was packed to the gills with business people and 2 6th grade classes from my grade school.. I am not sure if these 2 flights continued on to or originated in Florida. I do remember on such a short flight they did manage to serve juice and danish on the morning flight.and beverage service on the return.

Unfortunately I only flew on NA this one trip. I always wanted to fly on a NA DC-10 but I never did. My family mostly flew on Eastern and Delta.
 
MaxxFlyer
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:15 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
I was going to say SFO-ATL but you beat me to it.

National had a small hub in IAH in the late 1970s. Among others, they did SFO-IAH and SJC-IAH.


One of the most odd routes flown in the 70's. Sometimes it was even Saturday only.
 
MaxxFlyer
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:24 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
National July 1974:

Image

National May 1979:

Image

** Images courtesy of http://departedflights.com/


Interesting, NA did what a lot of airlines around this time. Showed nonstop services to European destinations that didn't exist. NW did it as well, and BN the same on South America.
 
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knope2001
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:09 am

That route map of theirs always drives me nuts -- combining multiple cities into a single dot is maddening.

Back to the original question, nearly every segment which didn't include a Florida city was a thru flight to or from Florida. Not everything, but tons.
 
727LOVER
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:22 am

MaxxFlyer wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
National July 1974:

Image

National May 1979:

Image

** Images courtesy of http://departedflights.com/


Interesting, NA did what a lot of airlines around this time. Showed nonstop services to European destinations that didn't exist. NW did it as well, and BN the same on South America.


Not sure I'm understanding what you are saying...National DID serve those European cities. London, Paris, Amsterdam, Zurich, Frankfurt....not sure if they were at CDG or ORY though.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
timz
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Re: National Airlines routes

Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:17 pm

He said the 1979 map showed services that didn't exist, which is true. Dunno how many of them existed at some other time, but the map shows three transatlantic routes out of New Orleans, two of which never existed-- right?
 
doulasc
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:05 pm

727LOVER wrote:
MaxxFlyer wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
National July 1974:

Image

National May 1979:

Image

** Images courtesy of http://departedflights.com/


Interesting, NA did what a lot of airlines around this time. Showed nonstop services to European destinations that didn't exist. NW did it as well, and BN the same on South America.


Not sure I'm understanding what you are saying...National DID serve those European cities. London, Paris, Amsterdam, Zurich, Frankfurt....not sure if they were at CDG or ORY though.
National served Paris at Orly and after the merger Pan Am served Orly for awhile the moved over to CDG
 
MaxxFlyer
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:10 pm

727LOVER wrote:
MaxxFlyer wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
National July 1974:

Image

National May 1979:

Image

** Images courtesy of http://departedflights.com/


Interesting, NA did what a lot of airlines around this time. Showed nonstop services to European destinations that didn't exist. NW did it as well, and BN the same on South America.


Not sure I'm understanding what you are saying...National DID serve those European cities. London, Paris, Amsterdam, Zurich, Frankfurt....not sure if they were at CDG or ORY though.


For whatever reason, the wrong map showed up on my comments. NA did not fly all of the U.S.-Europe services shown on the later map. It didn't mean they didn't serve those cities in Europe, just that some of the routes were never flown.
 
727LOVER
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:52 am

727LOVER wrote:
By May 1979, National had quit BOS, PHL, BWI, PHF, DAB, TLH, PFN,....how MLB through the Pan Am buyout amazes me.
When did they start ZRH ?



I forgot PVD
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
holeham
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:32 am

I was on NA flight 30 in July of 1978 from SFO to TPA. What I can't remember is where that flight stopped. Was it SFO to IAH and then TPA or was it SFO to MSY and then TPA? Does anyone have a timetable that they can help with?
 
JFKCMILAXFLL
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:48 pm

I flew PHF-JFK in March 1976 on a 727, but it's possible that the flight originated in Florida. My other two NA flights did involve Florida: LAX-MIA (my first DC-10 flight!) and MIA-JFK (727). Both in August 1978.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: National Airlines routes that did not end in Florida

Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:06 pm

holeham wrote:

I was on NA flight 30 in July of 1978 from SFO to TPA. What I can't remember is where that flight stopped. Was it SFO to IAH and then TPA or was it SFO to MSY and then TPA? Does anyone have a timetable that they can help with?


According to a 1979 timetable your flight stopped in LAS:

http://www.departedflights.com/NA050179p14.html
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