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phluser
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Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:14 am

B752OS wrote:
It's interesting, WN is able to maintain large networks in both SEA and PDX, I believe 17 cities served each, despite both of those cities being large AS bases. In the case of SEA, you also have a large DL base too. I mention that because the Boston area has a larger population based than the Seattle and Portland areas, yet WN maintains a smaller network from BOS and of course PWM, MHT, BDL and PVD.


Depending if one counts MHT and PVD as Boston area, WN has more service in the Boston area (BOS+MHT+PVD) than in the Seattle area (SEA).
 
deltal1011man
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Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:17 am

Cubsrule wrote:
tomaheath wrote:
With DL starting Nashville in November and B6 start Atlanta in March will this really eat into WN flights? WN will be competing the two biggest carriers at BOS.


I don't know the dynamics in ATL as well, but I suspect that DL's regional jet service will not affect BNA-BOS much. WN and DL coexist just fine on BNA-LAX/LGA.

Agreed. 1x CR9 shouldn't mean much to WN...
 
lat41
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Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:29 am

WN starts Providence DCA in October competing with AA. BWI schedule not affected.
 
PartsGuy20
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Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:11 pm

As a WN fan who lives about an hour or so south of BOS, I'd much rather fly out of PVD (which is about the same distance away). Fares tend to be higher, but often times the total trip cost is less expensive once you factor in parking, etc. Parking at BOS, even in the "economy" lot, is expensive! Plus, PVD is much, much easier to get in and out of and there's almost never any traffic to deal with on the way in or out.

The problem is, the availability out of PVD has gone down so much over the last few years that I often can't find a flight that's convenient for me, leaving me to look at BOS. And if I'm already going to BOS to find the flight I need, why wouldn't I look at B6 as well? Especially for Chicago travel, where B6 goes to O'Hare and WN drops you off in the ghetto.

I think for WN to find more success in BOS and the surrounding area, they'll have to up their frequencies or non-stop offerings. Even with a lower price, one-hopping to the midwest or Florida just isn't an attractive offering for many Customers when competitors can do it non-stop.
 
PVD757
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Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:18 pm

Partsguy, only because you mentioned Chicago, just want to make sure you saw that AA added PVD-ORD this past April.
 
phluser
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Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:57 pm

Perhaps WN could add BOS-PIT. B6 covers this route and AA covers this pmUS route. In a scenario where it's B6 vs. WN vs. AA, and AA doesn't have a hub on either end, AA will bow out. Incremental strategic moves like these will increase WN's market share at BOS.

JAX, MCO, TPA and FLL service seem like possibilities as well and WN should cover them before NK covers them or F9 winds up in BOS. WN should promote the nonstops over connections in BWI and lower the fares on BWI-BOS for the O&D even more to make it difficult for NK to succeed. However, there is already noticeable fare differences on BWI-BOS relative to BWI-MHT and BWI-PVD especially on short notice fares, and this might adversely increase the difference even more. I'm not sure what counter balance would be. WN does want to keep some reasonable presence in PVD (e.g. PVD-DCA addition), maybe moreso than MHT. I think WN could make PVD-PHL work again. Originally WN competed on PVD-PHL and MHT-PHL against US.

While B6 now covers BOS-PHL providing competition to AA, likely PVD-PHL is big enough to warrant a competitor. There might also be a market for routes like RDU-PVD and maybe CLE-PVD. And there might be niche route opportunities directly out of BOS to cover, like maybe BOS-ORF which was once covered by DL.
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:18 am

WN starting PVD - DCA is the first sign of expansion in the Boston area outside of BOS in years. While I think more westbound service is needed, it is great to see WN's PVD service isn't totally withering away in the shadow of its BOS growth. Maybe WN can return a little LUv to MHT soon as well.
 
lat41
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tRe: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:40 am

I don't think of the PVD station as "withering away" as things have remained consistent over the last few seasons. True the PHX, LAS & DEN flights are gone but the core service MCO, FLL, TPA, MDW, BWI has stayed intact even as other cities are still being thinned. As RSW and PBI come back for the Winter peak, the only take away is West Palm Beach that goes Sat./Sun. only instead of daily but does go later in the season. WN will be very generous at PVD for various holiday periods when extra RSW, MDW and BWI are added on certain days with some multiple additions.
PVD flights rarely are found on the bargain "Click n' Save" page of the WN site where the BOS offerings are constantly, reflecting the hammering competition there that forces discounting. Even when charging a premium, the only open seats out of Providence are in the lav.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:55 am

Lets be real here... the WN growth and service at BOS has largely been for two reasons 1) to keep B6 growth in check and 2) to provide key service to the business destination of other important WN cities i.e. WN solidifying their position in MKE as opposed to BOS for BOS-MKE. A combination of the two is true for IND and CMH.

It will be interesting to see who has the higher tolerance for pain on BOS-BNA since 5x B6/WN is not sustainable. The BOS market isn't nearly as big as some people make it out to be (I can say that since I lived there for 3 years until this past April when the insane rents drove me away). The majority of the new passenger growth is really connecting which helps B6 more than WN.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Cubsrule
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Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:07 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
Lets be real here... the WN growth and service at BOS has largely been for two reasons 1) to keep B6 growth in check and 2) to provide key service to the business destination of other important WN cities i.e. WN solidifying their position in MKE as opposed to BOS for BOS-MKE. A combination of the two is true for IND and CMH.

It will be interesting to see who has the higher tolerance for pain on BOS-BNA since 5x B6/WN is not sustainable. The BOS market isn't nearly as big as some people make it out to be (I can say that since I lived there for 3 years until this past April when the insane rents drove me away). The majority of the new passenger growth is really connecting which helps B6 more than WN.


If you mean "connecting on B6," that may be true, but the WN hub at BNA is far more useful for the passengers who might fly BOS-BNA than is the B6 hub at BOS. BOS is quite far out of the way for most connecting passengers ex-BNA.
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STT757
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Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:39 pm

Didn't see this posted yet, MASSPORT is spending $45 million at Terminal B to consolidate AA at the former US gates and to move WN from Terminal A to the old AA gates at Terminal B.

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_estate/2016/09/massport-oks-45m-for-logan-terminal-b-improvements.html
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
RL757PVD
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Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:57 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:

If you mean "connecting on B6," that may be true, but the WN hub at BNA is far more useful for the passengers who might fly BOS-BNA than is the B6 hub at BOS. BOS is quite far out of the way for most connecting passengers ex-BNA.


Still doesn't mean there is enough room for 5x 737/320
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Cubsrule
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Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:27 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:

If you mean "connecting on B6," that may be true, but the WN hub at BNA is far more useful for the passengers who might fly BOS-BNA than is the B6 hub at BOS. BOS is quite far out of the way for most connecting passengers ex-BNA.


Still doesn't mean there is enough room for 5x 737/320


It's hard to tell. I would have told you that there's not room for 7x BNA-LAX, but it seems to be working, at least seasonally. The market share numbers make clear that plenty of BOS-BNA O&D passengers are still connecting.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
RL757PVD
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Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:06 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:


BNA-LAX.


At least there you have a music and entertainment connection.

BOS-BNA had no service for years, if it was that big of a market, someone would have added it a long time ago.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
PartsGuy20
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:09 pm

Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:15 pm

PVD757 wrote:
Partsguy, only because you mentioned Chicago, just want to make sure you saw that AA added PVD-ORD this past April.


I hadn't seen that, but thanks for the heads-up!
 
dcannon1227
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:09 pm

Re: How can WN grow in the Boston Area?

Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:56 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:


Still doesn't mean there is enough room for 5x 737/320


It's hard to tell. I would have told you that there's not room for 7x BNA-LAX, but it seems to be working, at least seasonally. The market share numbers make clear that plenty of BOS-BNA O&D passengers are still connecting.


BNA-LAX peaks to 8 or 9 daily in the summer. Heard Delta is winning that battle, but all of the carriers operaing that flight have no issues filling seats on that route.

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