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MCO2BRS
Topic Author
Posts: 377
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:30 am

Where's LGW-FRA?

Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:28 pm

I've worked out of LGW for a couple of years, I've always wondered why nobody serves LGW-FRA? You can reach every major EU capital and financial center from LGW except FRA. (I'm not including BRU as that was cancelled last year, and I can see it coming back one way or another)

I can hardly see a daily or double daily service eating in to the LHR demand, especially given there are plenty of cities served from both airports with much smaller catchment areas and target demographics.

Overlap routes include:

MAD, FCO, OSL, HEL, ARN, CDG, DUB, SXF, HAM, ZRH, GVA.... I'm sure you get the idea.

I've always imagined a service operated by LH, or an LH subsidiary. I doubt EZY would look at it due to LH's fortress there and the fact EZY have never set foot in FRA.

Thoughts?
 
airbazar
Posts: 10250
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Where's LGW-FRA?

Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:34 pm

All of those are pleasant tourist destinations. Frankfurt however... :D
Now seriously, I suspect that service from LHR and LCY adequately covers the demand.
 
MCO2BRS
Topic Author
Posts: 377
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:30 am

Re: Where's LGW-FRA?

Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:43 pm

Haha I love Frankfurt, it's a great city break. As for LHR & LCY I get that to a degree, but almost all other LCY destinations are served via LGW. for those of us in Sussex and points south, LHR and LCY aren't our number one choice
 
User001
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Where's LGW-FRA?

Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:15 pm

Lufthansa ran a brief LGW-FRA service from October 30th 2011-October 29th 2012.

Was twice daily B737-500 but didn't perform to expectations at all.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: Where's LGW-FRA?

Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:33 pm

I would have to dig into my logs, but I think that LH tried that at least wtice. i flew LGW FRA on BCal Bac 1-11s many years ago ad i think even on BA. The best Chance for that route to open again could be easy once they get a deal cut with Fraport. LH serves LHR hourly plus City and that does it for them.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
TC957
Posts: 3967
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Where's LGW-FRA?

Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:18 pm

Yes, LH has twice done LGW - FRA in the past and pulled off after each attempt. Sadly. Surely LH doesn't need hourly services at LHR - they could sell a couple of the slots and give LGW another go. Seeing easyJet don't do DUS or CGN anymore LGW could really do with a few more German services.
 
cornishsimon
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:10 pm

Re: Where's LGW-FRA?

Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:54 pm

To be fair it would fit BA quite well to operate a couple times a day to feed longhaul and cover point to point.

I know BA aren't really looking for longhaul feed at LGW but some feed onto destinations only served ex LGW wouldn't hurt. Plus as BA are expanding the operation at LGW both long and short haul would it be worth a pop. ?


cs
 
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eurowings
Posts: 574
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:40 pm

Re: Where's LGW-FRA?

Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:47 pm

If Lufthansa can't make the route work, then I don't see anyone else managing it. There is no Eurowings operation out of FRA.

LGW really lacks European legacies, there's no Lufthansa, Austrian, KLM, SAS, SN Brussels, Air France, Alitalia, LOT or CSA.

I think the only new airline in recent years that has opened up a UK-FRA route is (the independent) bmi Regional. They could make a go of it, but I believe LGW's cost structure makes operating smaller aircraft too costly, which is why Flybe reduced their presence significantly.
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

Re: Where's LGW-FRA?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:45 pm

PanHAM wrote:
I would have to dig into my logs, but I think that LH tried that at least wtice. i flew LGW FRA on BCal Bac 1-11s many years ago ad i think even on BA. The best Chance for that route to open again could be easy once they get a deal cut with Fraport. LH serves LHR hourly plus City and that does it for them.
BA

BA did once operate LGW-FRA. They had three daily departures, BA2914 at 08:15, BA2916 at 13:45 and BA2918 at 19:05.

The fact that both BA and LH have flown this route in the past but that both have suspended these services says it all. I also think that this is pretty strong evidence for consideration in the LGW v. LHR new runway debate. LGW has proved not to be able to sustain a flight between LON and arguably the other most important European financial centre.
 
sirdanilot
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Where's LGW-FRA?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:56 pm

vv701 wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
I would have to dig into my logs, but I think that LH tried that at least wtice. i flew LGW FRA on BCal Bac 1-11s many years ago ad i think even on BA. The best Chance for that route to open again could be easy once they get a deal cut with Fraport. LH serves LHR hourly plus City and that does it for them.
BA

BA did once operate LGW-FRA. They had three daily departures, BA2914 at 08:15, BA2916 at 13:45 and BA2918 at 19:05.

The fact that both BA and LH have flown this route in the past but that both have suspended these services says it all. I also think that this is pretty strong evidence for consideration in the LGW v. LHR new runway debate. LGW has proved not to be able to sustain a flight between LON and arguably the other most important European financial centre.


Of course this is also a chicken and egg story. What was first? Of course demand determines capacity but capacity also determines demand to some degree.

LGW is - like LHR and LCY - a very cramped airport. Out of those three, LHR and LCY are clearly the most sought-after slots to fly to from FRA, the first because of international connections and business and the latter because of business. Now if LGW gets the additional runway, LGW will be a much less cramped airport, resulting in much more liberty for landing there and perhaps lower costs for the airlines. I could easily see all of the major european carriers making a go for LGW once the extra runway is built, freeing up some capacity at LHR.

As for the LHR runway expansion yes of course it's needed but it's just not going to happen anytime soon and it's no use arguing it here, keep that in the LHR thread.
 
sierra3tango
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:59 pm

Re: Where's LGW-FRA?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:46 pm

PanHAM wrote:
I would have to dig into my logs, but I think that LH tried that at least wtice. i flew LGW FRA on BCal Bac 1-11s many years ago ad i think even on BA. The best Chance for that route to open again could be easy once they get a deal cut with Fraport. LH serves LHR hourly plus City and that does it for them.


BCal definitely flew LGW/FRA 3 daily during the 80s on 1-11 (500s) if I recall correctly. IIRC it was one of their more profitable routes
 
MHG
Posts: 939
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:33 am

Re: Where's LGW-FRA?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:47 pm

I´ve flown LGW-FRA once with Lufthansa (12/nov/2011 - B737-500 D-ABIC LH899).
It was just before they pulled the plug on their latest attempt.
I remember the flight was roughly 60-70% full with the vast majority being transit passengers. Not too bad I guess.

Still, I wish Easyjet would fly the route but I fear that PTP traffic LGW-FRA is too limited to make it work ...
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
kimshep
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:13 am

Re: Where's LGW-FRA?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:08 am

There are good reasons that both LH and BA have failed on LGW-FRA-LGW.

- FRA is a huge Star Alliance hub. LHR is a huge OneWorld hub. LGW is not a true hub for either LH or BA.
- For Londoner's, BA's LCY-FRA is far more convenient for the high-fare paying financial crowd and for leisure inner-city residents than LHR or LGW.
- For BA to gain traction on the LHR-FRA route, it requires connecting traffic from it's oneworld partners. Think AA, QF, MH primarily. CX serves HKG-FRA, LA and IB do MAD-FRA direct, Many other ow members serve direct from their home base, including EI.

LH serves FRA-LHR almost hourly during peak .. and both LH and SR serve FRA-LCY as well (LH direct and also via GVA and ZRH), SR via a 1 stop.
There is not a lot of incentive for LH to fly to a non-hub LON airport such as LGW, when they already serve LHR and LCY directly.

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