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alaturka
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Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:23 am

I really wonder what are the incidents or accidents to stop by the cabin crew or cautious passengers in aviation history?

Thanks in advance.
Last edited by qf789 on Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Undescriptive Title
 
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euroflyer
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Re: Any Incident-Accident to Prevent by Crew or Passangers?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:28 pm

You should rephrase your question, it's quite unclear what you're looking for.
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speedbored
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Re: Any Incident-Accident to Prevent by Crew or Passangers?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:36 pm

I think he's asking about incidents or accidents that have been avoided or prevented by cabin crew or cautious passengers.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:54 pm

I guess we will never know. Unfortunately, there is no library about incidents and accidents that did NOT happen.

The only thing I remember is a story about a ramp worker, who threw a wheel chock into a running engine (IIRC of a 733) because he thought something was wrong. There was a thread about it here a long long time ago.
 
reltney
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:01 pm

That question is impossible to answer. Too many links in a chain of events in an accident and you never know which combination or individuate link which would have prevented the issue.

An example (some will argue if this is good or bad to use as an example but you will get the point). Take the AF Concorde crash. Last chain of events. The flight engineer shut down an engine without captains command or at clean up altitude, which left them with only 2 good thrust producing engines . That caused the crash, however, if the DC-10 ran late that day or the mechanic who worked on the piece that fell off did not fall off, the Concorde would have not hit it . Then again we would have never known the Concorde was 6000 over RATOW (runway allowable takeoff weight...... I haven't read the French report in a few years so might have some facts off a bit but think I am correct.

You might never know which 1 item could have prevented. It. The 2 747s in the 70s is another great example. The united DC-8 in Portland or the Eastern L1011 are other great examples of removing 1 link of the chain and the plane would not have crashed..

Cheers
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tp1040
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:10 pm

Are you talking about a situation where a passenger noticed something going on with an engine and alerted the crew? (ex. flames, oil leak, fuel leak etc) If they did, then it is still an incident and they only prevented the incident from getting worse.
 
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Loew
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:19 pm

I think FX705, NWA253 or AA63 could fit in, however as someone pointed out, there are simply too many links in a chain of events.
 
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alaturka
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:02 pm

tp1040 wrote:
Are you talking about a situation where a passenger noticed something going on with an engine and alerted the crew? (ex. flames, oil leak, fuel leak etc) If they did, then it is still an incident and they only prevented the incident from getting worse.


Sorry about my poor english. :) Actually yes, that's exactly what I am asking for.

It just came to my mind after reading this news today; http://avherald.com/h?article=49b59d6b
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:09 pm

The Smithsonian show about Concorde tells the story of a BA Concorde flight from IAD that had a hole in its wing, and a passenger alerted and FA who alerted the cockpit. They landed back in IAD.
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N14AZ
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:22 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
The Smithsonian show about Concorde tells the story of a BA Concorde flight from IAD that had a hole in its wing, and a passenger alerted and FA who alerted the cockpit. They landed back in IAD.

Hmmm, there have been several cases of commercial airlines flying with a hole in its wing. Would it have led to an accident?

PS.: but hey, my example above doesn't fit as well. It was a false alarm and the poor ramp worker was fired, IIRC
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:57 pm

N14AZ wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
The Smithsonian show about Concorde tells the story of a BA Concorde flight from IAD that had a hole in its wing, and a passenger alerted and FA who alerted the cockpit. They landed back in IAD.

Hmmm, there have been several cases of commercial airlines flying with a hole in its wing. Would it have led to an accident?

PS.: but hey, my example above doesn't fit as well. It was a false alarm and the poor ramp worker was fired, IIRC

Supposedly it just burst on climb-out and you could see the inner working of the wing. At supersonic speeds, it would not have ended well.
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Crackshot
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:09 pm

If you count terrorism, then United 93 (still an accident but could have been worse), Northwest 253 and American 63.
 
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alaturka
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:26 am

Two Air Transat pilots have been suspended after being charged with being impaired prior to flying from Glasgow to Toronto Monday, the airline said Tuesday


Fresh answer to my question. :)

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1338305

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/a ... -1.3684955
 
vc10
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:07 pm

Reltney posting No 5----------- Quite correct about loss of two engines in the Concorde crash at Paris , but the reason for the crash was far more complex than just that.

TWA772LR postings 9 and 11-------- The incident that you refer to I think was actually an Air France Concorde in 1979. The top surface of the wing above the landing gear bay had being penetrated by debris from a dual tyre burst during take off . The wing did not burst.

Although sometimes reported in the newspapers perhaps the most frequent occasions that cabin crew intervene to prevent an incident is controlling unruley passengers and so preventing a more serious incident incurring
 
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OA940
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:27 pm

reltney wrote:
That question is impossible to answer. Too many links in a chain of events in an accident and you never know which combination or individuate link which would have prevented the issue.

An example (some will argue if this is good or bad to use as an example but you will get the point). Take the AF Concorde crash. Last chain of events. The flight engineer shut down an engine without captains command or at clean up altitude, which left them with only 2 good thrust producing engines . That caused the crash, however, if the DC-10 ran late that day or the mechanic who worked on the piece that fell off did not fall off, the Concorde would have not hit it . Then again we would have never known the Concorde was 6000 over RATOW (runway allowable takeoff weight...... I haven't read the French report in a few years so might have some facts off a bit but think I am correct.

You might never know which 1 item could have prevented. It. The 2 747s in the 70s is another great example. The united DC-8 in Portland or the Eastern L1011 are other great examples of removing 1 link of the chain and the plane would not have crashed..

Cheers


About the Concorde (taken from Wikipedia and the final report): The plane wa 810kg/1790 lbs overweight, something which wouldn't have a significant effect on the flying characteristics of the plane, aborting would have resulted in a high speed overrun (aka crash), the landing gear which had not retracted didn't have any major effect on the plane's flying characteristics, and the fire was so severe that a crash was inevitable, even with the engines operating normally.
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AZa346
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:35 pm

Yesterday the Air Transat cabin crew in Glasgow noticed that the pilots were drunk!
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:17 pm

Am I dense, or are you all responding to a question that hasn't been asked?

He's not asking for accidents... he's asking for cases where accidents were prevented.

I know that will be harder to find since as someone mentioned there isn't an obvious library of these cases out there, but I would think there are some anecdotal stories to be found...
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maxpower1954
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:19 pm

Actor William Shatner saw a strange beast destroying the number 2 engine on a DC-6B flight back in the early 1960s and shot it, saving everyone on board. 20 years later, Actor John Lithgow was on a Trans Global 707 and saw a different creature doing the same thing to an engine. He took a gun from a Sky Marshall and took the beast down, saving the lives of the passengers and crew. Those are the best examples of what you are asking about I believe.

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ubeema
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Re: Any Incident/Accidents Prevented by Crew or Passengers?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:25 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
The Smithsonian show about Concorde tells the story of a BA Concorde flight from IAD that had a hole in its wing, and a passenger alerted and FA who alerted the cockpit. They landed back in IAD.

Hmmm, there have been several cases of commercial airlines flying with a hole in its wing. Would it have led to an accident?

PS.: but hey, my example above doesn't fit as well. It was a false alarm and the poor ramp worker was fired, IIRC

Supposedly it just burst on climb-out and you could see the inner working of the wing. At supersonic speeds, it would not have ended well.


Agreed. This one stands out because an alert passenger noticed fuel gushing out the wing after take off from IAD, called up the FA, who discounted his claim even though it was there to see by the window. Only when he threatened to go to the cockpit, the FO eventually came by to calm the passenger down and realized what was happening with the expression Oh Mon Dieu! (French for Oh My God). The plane immediately returned to IAD, and it was later discovered a tire burst during take off roll and caused damages to the wing unbeknownst to the crew. The passenger was interviewed in the TV documentary and recalled the whole thing. A supersonic flight with a puncture wing tank cannot go too far, can it?

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