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chiraagnt
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SQ launches SIN-MAN-IAH from Oct 30, DME-IAH axed

Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:56 pm

Officially confirmed:

Singapore–Manchester–Houston service will be operated five-times weekly. Flight SQ52 will depart Singapore at 0235 and arrive in Manchester at 0900. Following a brief stopover, the service will depart Manchester again at 1015 before arriving in Houston at 1435.

The return service will see SQ51 depart Houston at 1915 and arrive in Manchester at 1005 the next day. The flight will then take off from 1135 and touch back down in Singapore at 0820 the following day.
Last edited by chiraagnt on Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User001
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:02 pm

Been widely talked about in Manchester and Houston.

It's also supported with slot requests at Manchester where Singapore have applied for 28 weekly flights, with the flights continuing westbound after arriving direct from Singapore. The slot requests states both east and west bound aircraft would be on the ground together, which matches the proposed schedule.

Before anyone says 'slots don't guarantee a flight', this is true, but, in the time that Manchester has been slot controlled and SQ have served MAN, SQ have only ever applied for slots they intend to use. There is no recorded history of slot applications and then slot hand back. There are also internal emails to SQ UK staff.

It certainly looks a very strong rumour.
 
SCQ83
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:08 pm

Would they have a 5th freedom in MAN-IAH? That would be an interesting route.
 
User001
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:13 pm

They will have 5th freedom. United expected to code share too.
 
chiraagnt
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:13 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Would they have a 5th freedom in MAN-IAH? That would be an interesting route.


From what I know, Singapore, UK and US all have open skies with each other with 5th freedoms so MAN-IAH should have it as well. Route should be targeting (finally!) the non-stop SIN-MAN passengers and SIN-IAH ones, with MAN-IAH passengers a good bonus haha!
 
BestWestern
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:14 pm

There are also rumors that the SIN MAN route may be handed to scoot for them to operate the route. The next set of 787s will come with crew rest areas, and they are intending to operate to Europe. Rumoured routes are MAN, BCN and FCO.
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User001
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:14 pm

Scoot are not taking over the Manchester route.

BCN/CPH/IST/ATH are among the first rumoured destinations.
Last edited by User001 on Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
chiraagnt
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:15 pm

User001 wrote:
They will have 5th freedom. United expected to code share too.


Makes sense. SIA and UA expected to start codeshares officially in early July (have they already started?)

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... july-2016/
 
User001
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:17 pm

Yes SQ got their code on some UA routes, UA will codeshare on the full SIN-MAN-IAH routing.
 
chiraagnt
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:17 pm

BestWestern wrote:
There are also rumors that the SIN MAN route may be handed to scoot for them to operate the route. The next set of 787s will come with crew rest areas, and they are intending to operate to Europe. Rumoured routes are MAN, BCN and FCO.


I think with this hopefully eventuating, it should put to bed any rumors about Scoot taking over the SIN-MAN route from SQ for now. BCN and FCO are apparently strong contenders, along with ATH according to CAPA. Starting SIN-MAD on Scoot also seems possible.

Source: http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/l ... ute-290145
 
User001
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:21 pm

CAPA has often got it wrong when it comes to MAN based news. I don't have time to go through the articles that they have produced with incorrect MAN news or predictions that just didn't happen, but, looking back at their archives for some Sunday reading should show this.

Being a 3rd party company, they are far from an official source, so they fact they 'predict' a MAN Scoot route means very little to be honest. It may happen in time, but, there are more indications of SQ61/62 moving to MAN than there are that Scoot are taking over.
 
chiraagnt
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:24 pm

User001 wrote:
CAPA has often got it wrong when it comes to MAN based news. I don't have time to go through the articles that they have produced with incorrect MAN news or predictions that just didn't happen, but, looking back at their archives for some Sunday reading should show this.

Being a 3rd party company, they are far from an official source, so they fact they 'predict' a MAN Scoot route means very little to be honest. It may happen in time, but, there are more indications of SQ61/62 moving to MAN than there are that Scoot are taking over.


Makes sense, although they have been spot on for other news and analysis, sometimes even too accurate haha! But with SQ starting direct non stop SIN-MAN flights, they should be able to better compete with CX, which apparently is doing very well on the HKG-MAN flights
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:27 pm

What makes MAN a more attractive city than HKG, ZRH, or even MAD and BCN? Not being pissy, just wondering.
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User001
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:34 pm

The issue SQ has had is that they are now competing against some very strong Asian competitors.

Due to the Munich stop, it means MAN passengers have a 2 stop flight to go beyond SIN, whereas other carriers can offer a 1 stop flight.

As you say, Cathay has recently enters the fold, with a YTD load factor around 88%, and Hainan have started with a 91.2% load factor with minimum forward load factors until November being 84%.

Moving the SQ61/62 to Manchester kills a few birds with one stone.

Firstly, Manchester needs a direct flight but probably can't support a B777 on its own (but a B777 is needed for cargo). Giving MAN the SQ61/62 gives MAN the direct flight, but still shares with another destination thus reducing the burden of filling a B77W.

SQ61/62 not exactly a strong route, so no harm trying the new tag on.

Increases MAN airports revenue with now 2 sets of landing fees, so they will be happy too.

MAN is also getting US pre clearance around 2018/2019, so, means the flight can clear customs at Manchester in time too.
 
a380787
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:27 pm

MAN is also a smart choice since it doesn't step on anyone's toes (if SQ's long term objective is to thaw out of their ice age with UA)

This is a route that's just BEGGING for some lowering of CASM and trip costs - read : A350.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:37 pm

Excellent news for MAN! Two excellent destinations on a truly exceptional airline!

I agree that this will put to rest the speculations about Scoot coming to MAN.

Strongly fear at this end that among Scoot's first destination we will see FCO, along with ATH, IST (and maybe BCN), which to some extent all share a common history of being very prone to the "low yields syndrome" for some long haul routes... I guess MXP, like MAN, MUC and ZRH will keep seeing the regular SQ flights.
 
SCQ83
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:57 pm

chiraagnt wrote:
I think with this hopefully eventuating, it should put to bed any rumors about Scoot taking over the SIN-MAN route from SQ for now. BCN and FCO are apparently strong contenders, along with ATH according to CAPA. Starting SIN-MAD on Scoot also seems possible.

Source: http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/l ... ute-290145


It is really surprising SQ does not serve MAD and is only focused in BCN, with MAD being a much larger market.
 
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huaiwei
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:25 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
It is really surprising SQ does not serve MAD and is only focused in BCN, with MAD being a much larger market.

MAD has consistently performed poorly for SQ, because there are fewer business passengers. Hence, although SQ has tried several routes to MAD (both non-stop and via other European destinations), it finally canned the service entirely in 2004.
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
SCQ83
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:32 pm

huaiwei wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
It is really surprising SQ does not serve MAD and is only focused in BCN, with MAD being a much larger market.

MAD has consistently performed poorly for SQ, because there are fewer business passengers. Hence, although SQ has tried several routes to MAD (both non-stop and via other European destinations), it finally canned the service entirely in 2004.


It is the other way around, MAD is a much bigger business destination. Korean Air, China Eastern, Etihad, Saudia, Cathay and (soon) Air India serve MAD and not BCN, so nothing to do with MAD-Asia either.
 
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huaiwei
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:10 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
It is the other way around, MAD is a much bigger business destination. Korean Air, China Eastern, Etihad, Saudia, Cathay and (soon) Air India serve MAD and not BCN, so nothing to do with MAD-Asia either.

It is not as if SQ has not tried thou, so how would you explain it?

Fact is, none of the airlines you listed are as front-heavy as SQ, besides CX and perhaps KE.
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
winginit
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:02 pm

What an absolute bloodbath of a route that IAHMAN fifth freedom would be. AA and UA already operate tragic load factors between IAD/PHL/ORD and MAN; and the already messy yield climate between the US and UK is going to be made all the worse in the coming months and possibly even years due to FX headwinds associated with the pound.
 
User001
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:15 pm

winginit wrote:
What an absolute bloodbath of a route that IAHMAN fifth freedom would be. AA and UA already operate tragic load factors between IAD/PHL/ORD and MAN; and the already messy yield climate between the US and UK is going to be made all the worse in the coming months and possibly even years due to FX headwinds associated with the pound.


Firstly, the routing isn't about just MAN-IAH, it's about combining 2 slightly weaker flights to amalgamate one good load factor. The primary focus for the flight is SIN-MAN-SIN and SIN-IAH-SIN, and MAN-IAH-MAN loads are just a bonus, so, I doubt SQ are particularly worried for that respect.

As for tragic load factors on AA/UA, yes, there are low seasons (Jan-Apr), but summer sees 90%+ loads, hardly tragic. And if the loads were so tragic, we wouldn't be seeing VS/DL and others increasing their routes/capacity and AA have recently expanded from B757's to B767/B787.

As for the Brexit fears, things are already improving, and some key business deals are still being made, so, it may not be as bad as some were expecting.
 
TC957
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:52 pm

So is this official yet ? When the SIN-MAN-IAH service starting, or hopes to start ?
 
BestWestern
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:12 pm

GalleyFM from my scoot flight this morning (hello from a 787-9) is that Europe will be FCO and MAN first. A lot more India coming scoots way too.

Crew are really looking forward to longer flights as the overnight out and backs are tough.
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LAXdude1023
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:57 am

I think MAN will be a better improvement over DME in terms of a connecting point for two reasons:

1) Its only a 4 hour drive to Scotland which has a large and high yielding market to Houston.

2) From what Ive heard, the revenue from DME-SIN does very well while IAH-DME does poorly.

IAH-EDI-SIN would be better, but its still an improvement in my opinion.
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chiraagnt
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:11 am

BestWestern wrote:
GalleyFM from my scoot flight this morning (hello from a 787-9) is that Europe will be FCO and MAN first. A lot more India coming scoots way too.

Crew are really looking forward to longer flights as the overnight out and backs are tough.



Could Scoot and SQ coexist on the SIN-MAN route? I'm not too optimistic of both being able to have sustainable loads/yield to have daily year round flights. Can imagine scoot being 2/3x a week but the SIN-MAN-IAH flight sounds much better :D

I think Scoot are more likely to take over ATH, which SQ used to serve seasonally! IST also doesn't seem like it's doing too well regardless of the partnership they have with Turkish on the SIN-IST route.

With regards to India, new routes like PNQ seem like a possibility if the bilateral allows! I'm very optimistic about the codeshare and inter line opportunities that Vistara can present to SIA Group carriers in India as it continues to grow!
 
User001
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:24 am

BestWestern wrote:
GalleyFM from my scoot flight this morning (hello from a 787-9) is that Europe will be FCO and MAN first. A lot more India coming scoots way too.

Crew are really looking forward to longer flights as the overnight out and backs are tough.


GalleyFM is about as reliable as American Airlines Manchester-Chicago route....iffy at best.

Yes, a few months ago there were rumours that Scoot would be coming to Manchester, but, the plan has now changed and SQ is now staying at MAN with SQ61/62, as SQ want to compete with HU and CX primarily.
 
UAL777UK
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:28 am

chiraagnt wrote:
User001 wrote:
They will have 5th freedom. United expected to code share too.


Makes sense. SIA and UA expected to start codeshares officially in early July (have they already started?)

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... july-2016/


My god, if you had said to me six months ago UA and SQ would code share I would have said you needed medication. How times have changed for these two....lets hope it thaws even more!
 
xorrygva
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:36 am

That would be an improvement vs. the existing DME stop.

With Scoot potentially taking over some European destinations, how likely would GVA be opened? For SQ, GVA is currently the offline destination generating the highest revenues in Europe, even more than some online destinations. Yields are very high and volumes are relatively high too (although not as high as others).
 
chiraagnt
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:55 am

xorrygva wrote:
That would be an improvement vs. the existing DME stop.

With Scoot potentially taking over some European destinations, how likely would GVA be opened? For SQ, GVA is currently the offline destination generating the highest revenues in Europe, even more than some online destinations. Yields are very high and volumes are relatively high too (although not as high as others).


GVA seems like a prime A359 route to be opened but hasnt the SQ group covered that market with the SIA Group-LH Group JV. Their JV with Swiss to ZRH and beyond may be enough to cover GVA, otherwise another premium market they should expand to!
 
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nighthawk
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:35 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
I think MAN will be a better improvement over DME in terms of a connecting point for two reasons:

1) Its only a 4 hour drive to Scotland which has a large and high yielding market to Houston.

2) From what Ive heard, the revenue from DME-SIN does very well while IAH-DME does poorly.

IAH-EDI-SIN would be better, but its still an improvement in my opinion.


Most of the demand for Houston from Scotland will come from Aberdeen, but that's closer to a 6 hour drive away from Manchester. When i worked up there, few people would even drive 2 hours to Edinburgh/Glasgow to take a direct flight, instead preferring to fly from Aberdeen and connect via one of the hubs - AMS/CDG or LHR. The higher the yield, the less likely they are to want to drive for hours to get to the airport.

They would be struggling to operate from Edinburgh anyway, the runway just isn't long enough.
 
sq452
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:09 pm

Definitely sounds like it is going to happen from the cabin crew I have talked to at SQ. Rumor seems to be pretty solid so its turning from a rumor to an "open secret" now! Now we just wait for an official announcement.
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oly720man
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:37 pm

nighthawk wrote:
Most of the demand for Houston from Scotland will come from Aberdeen, but that's closer to a 6 hour drive away from Manchester. When i worked up there, few people would even drive 2 hours to Edinburgh/Glasgow to take a direct flight, instead preferring to fly from Aberdeen and connect via one of the hubs - AMS/CDG or LHR. The higher the yield, the less likely they are to want to drive for hours to get to the airport.

They would be struggling to operate from Edinburgh anyway, the runway just isn't long enough.


Will Flybe ally with SQ? Their first ABZ-MAN flight of the day arrives at MAN at 0805 which matches pretty well with the 0940 departure to IAH, & there are 6 returns a day between ABZ & MAN
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User001
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:40 pm

I would imagine SQ could do well to get a code on the flybe ABZ service, and possibly the Norwich one too given NWI also has North Sea oil traffic.

While there are direct flights from AMS, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to get a code on AMS too, gives those guys another option.
 
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DolphinAir747
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:33 pm

What a crazy idea. First off, very circuitous routing. Why not operate it via ICN or PVG, which don't add any distance instead of with a huge detour (and a lot of added time since the westbound SIN-IAH will deal with headwinds)? What market is there between MAN and IAH? Is there a significant SIN-MAN market or will they just be competing with the ME3 on low-yielding, high-CASM traffic to Australia?

Will SQ keep SIN-DME as a terminator service or can it entirely?
 
User001
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:48 pm

why do people seem to focus on MAN-IAH like its the reason this route would exist and make or break the route

As said, this is, in essence, nothing to do with MAN-IAH.

There is a large market eastbound, and SQ have been loosing market share due to their 2 stop service for routes beyond SIN ex MAN (MAN-MUC-SIN-XXX), so, this new routing is the best way to get MAN back up to a non stop flight to SIN and 1 stop beyond SIN to better compete with CX/HU/EK/QR/EY/SV etc, as well as address the issues with a route that is obviously causing SQ some issues (the DME stop).

The MAN-IAH is just a happy by-product of the routing, the entire route does not need this traffic in isolation to survive, it's about SIN-MANvv and SIN-IAHvv. Any MAN-IAHvv traffic is nothing but a bonus.

Or can we not just trust SQ's method, they are the ones who have to bear the risk so they will know what they are letting themselves in for. After serving Manchester for over 25 years, they would know the traffic mix by now, if it was all low yielding, it's wouldn't be that 25 years strong!

As seen with VS opening SFO, BOS and JFK, EK adding F class and A380, CX starting HKG, HU starting PEK, MAN is not this yield black hole that people perceive it to be.
 
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DolphinAir747
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:35 pm

User001 wrote:
why do people seem to focus on MAN-IAH like its the reason this route would exist and make or break the route

As said, this is, in essence, nothing to do with MAN-IAH.

There is a large market eastbound, and SQ have been loosing market share due to their 2 stop service for routes beyond SIN ex MAN (MAN-MUC-SIN-XXX), so, this new routing is the best way to get MAN back up to a non stop flight to SIN and 1 stop beyond SIN to better compete with CX/HU/EK/QR/EY/SV etc, as well as address the issues with a route that is obviously causing SQ some issues (the DME stop).

The MAN-IAH is just a happy by-product of the routing, the entire route does not need this traffic in isolation to survive, it's about SIN-MANvv and SIN-IAHvv. Any MAN-IAHvv traffic is nothing but a bonus.

Or can we not just trust SQ's method, they are the ones who have to bear the risk so they will know what they are letting themselves in for. After serving Manchester for over 25 years, they would know the traffic mix by now, if it was all low yielding, it's wouldn't be that 25 years strong!

As seen with VS opening SFO, BOS and JFK, EK adding F class and A380, CX starting HKG, HU starting PEK, MAN is not this yield black hole that people perceive it to be.


But the yield on SIN-IAH won't be great given the circuitous routing. Just like the ME3 took a lot of business traffic on SIN-GRU with shorter travel times than SQ's flight. MAN-IAH will be a very, very costly "happy by-product." Why is SQ fixated on serving IAH? Unless they can route IAH via an Asian city on the direct route (ICN, PVG, etc.) it would seem best to axe IAH. SIN-MAN should be able to survive as an A359 flight without a tag.
 
winginit
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:10 pm

User001 wrote:
winginit wrote:
What an absolute bloodbath of a route that IAHMAN fifth freedom would be. AA and UA already operate tragic load factors between IAD/PHL/ORD and MAN; and the already messy yield climate between the US and UK is going to be made all the worse in the coming months and possibly even years due to FX headwinds associated with the pound.


As for tragic load factors on AA/UA, yes, there are low seasons (Jan-Apr), but summer sees 90%+ loads, hardly tragic. And if the loads were so tragic, we wouldn't be seeing VS/DL and others increasing their routes/capacity and AA have recently expanded from B757's to B767/B787.

As for the Brexit fears, things are already improving, and some key business deals are still being made, so, it may not be as bad as some were expecting.


Of course there are seasonal load factor implications, but per T100 for the year ending Q2 2016 AA operated a 71% LDF for PHLMAN, 80% for JFKMAN, and 80% for ORDMAN. UA operated a 79% LDF for IADMAN. Those aren't great numbers given the equipment.

As for Brexit, sure business deals may be being made but that can hardly be defined as an improvement over what will be 18% FX headwinds coming at MAN-US segments that are overwhelmingly UK POS.
 
David_itl
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:11 pm

DolphinAir747 wrote:
SIN-MAN should be able to survive as an A359 flight without a tag.


Passenger numbers would be okay (roughly 8500 to 10000 passengers a month) but there would be a cargo hit which would render A350 ops less profitable
 
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DolphinAir747
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:45 pm

David_itl wrote:
DolphinAir747 wrote:
SIN-MAN should be able to survive as an A359 flight without a tag.


Passenger numbers would be okay (roughly 8500 to 10000 passengers a month) but there would be a cargo hit which would render A350 ops less profitable


Perhaps though I can't imagine a 77W with 8 F seats making sense for this route. The F class demand must be very weak.
 
User001
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:26 pm

Dolphin,

The B77W with 8 F seats is already serving Manchester, and has done for 6 years, so again, SQ don't seem overly concerned as you are. Again, Manchester isn't this yeild black hole that people think it is. There's a reason 14 US cities can be accessed direct from Manchester, as yes, it's not as high yielding as say, London, Paris or Amsterdam, but there is money to be made all the same.

Winginit,

You said the load factors to MAN were terrible, 80% yearly average isn't terrible at all? Then there is the question of yield, to which we don't know.

As with Singapore airlines, American and United have been serving MAN for 30 and 25 years respectively and have increased capacity, they do not seem as concerned as you are.
 
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DolphinAir747
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:39 pm

User001 wrote:
Dolphin,

The B77W with 8 F seats is already serving Manchester, and has done for 6 years, so again, SQ don't seem overly concerned as you are. Again, Manchester isn't this yeild black hole that people think it is. There's a reason 14 US cities can be accessed direct from Manchester, as yes, it's not as high yielding as say, London, Paris or Amsterdam, but there is money to be made all the same.

Winginit,

You said the load factors to MAN were terrible, 80% yearly average isn't terrible at all? Then there is the question of yield, to which we don't know.

As with Singapore airlines, American and United have been serving MAN for 30 and 25 years respectively and have increased capacity, they do not seem as concerned as you are.


I'd forgotten that they currently used the 77W with F. But what is the natural market from MAN to IAH? Is there oil industry traffic in MAN? Starting a route based on just oil industry demand doesn't seem like a great idea now. Yield-wise, what really concerns me is SIN-IAH, not SIN-MAN.
 
User001
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:53 pm

But it does seem like the focus on this is MAN-IAH.

SQ is not launching this route to target specifically MAN-IAH, they are targeting it because they want to serve MAN-SIN direct again (which this flight will do), and they obviously still want to serve SIN-IAH, but for whatever reason, the DME stop is not working for them, so, to get the best of both worlds, they are opening SIN-MAN-IAH.

There is a small market to IAH from Manchester via the various hubs, which if I remember correctly, is about 49000 per year, and if SQ can get a UA codeshare, then it will give Manchester passengers access to the IAH hub for onward connections. I had also read the market for MAN-IAH is similar to MAN-IAD, the main issue being UA can't slap a B757 on the MAN-IAH route.

Then there is cargo, the US seems to do a lot of cargo trade with the U.K. Lufthansa cargo serves DFW-MAN, so, there could be some of that market to be tapped into on top of any pax demand.

The route really isn't as crazy as you think it is.
 
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DolphinAir747
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:08 pm

User001 wrote:
But it does seem like the focus on this is MAN-IAH.

SQ is not launching this route to target specifically MAN-IAH, they are targeting it because they want to serve MAN-SIN direct again (which this flight will do), and they obviously still want to serve SIN-IAH, but for whatever reason, the DME stop is not working for them, so, to get the best of both worlds, they are opening SIN-MAN-IAH.

There is a small market to IAH from Manchester via the various hubs, which if I remember correctly, is about 49000 per year, and if SQ can get a UA codeshare, then it will give Manchester passengers access to the IAH hub for onward connections. I had also read the market for MAN-IAH is similar to MAN-IAD, the main issue being UA can't slap a B757 on the MAN-IAH route.

Then there is cargo, the US seems to do a lot of cargo trade with the U.K. Lufthansa cargo serves DFW-MAN, so, there could be some of that market to be tapped into on top of any pax demand.

The route really isn't as crazy as you think it is.


While a UA codeshare may help, I'm sure UA would rather connect pax via EWR on its own metal than on SQ, and UA's MAN flights aren't even that full as is. If SQ really wants to serve MAN direct, I'm sure they can do it as a terminator without having to incur the extremely high costs of a ten-hour tag-on flight which occupies an aircraft for long, requires an extra crew, et cetera, so there are really many ways SQ could better use their assets (imagine how many 77W rotations SQ can do to HKG, CGK, BKK, etc. in the time it takes to do SIN-MAN-IAH-MAN-SIN). Again, this begs the question of why SQ is obsessed with serving IAH. The business market isn't that large and can't be doing well given the state of the oil industry, and the circuitous routing will force SQ to lower fares significantly. The SIN-DME-IAH flights currently carry a lot of low-yielding connecting pax from SGN and other points in Southeast Asia, and I can't imagine that the even longer SIN-MAN-IAH routing will help yield-wise.
 
User001
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Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:29 pm

Maybe the IAH market may be low loading but high yielding?

I don't know what it is you want someone to say, end of the day, SQ have thought about it long and hard, and do seem to be adding this tag. They obviously see some merit for the routing or they wouldn't be thinking about it. We just need to respect their decision, as they are the ones bearing the brunt of the risk. No offence, but I trust their decision over any a.net armchair posturing so if the route comes to pass, it comes to pass.
 
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DolphinAir747
Posts: 1901
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:07 pm

Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:35 pm

User001 wrote:
Maybe the IAH market may be low loading but high yielding?

I don't know what it is you want someone to say, end of the day, SQ have thought about it long and hard, and do seem to be adding this tag. They obviously see some merit for the routing or they wouldn't be thinking about it. We just need to respect their decision, as they are the ones bearing the brunt of the risk. No offence, but I trust their decision over any a.net armchair posturing so if the route comes to pass, it comes to pass.


I'll trust SQ's judgment, but then again they operated sub-50% load factors on BCN-GRU for years and recently basically said that their entire longhaul network was unprofitable, so who knows.
 
winginit
Posts: 3049
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:48 pm

User001 wrote:
if SQ can get a UA codeshare, then it will give Manchester passengers access to the IAH hub for onward connections.


Last I checked UA doesn't code on a single SQ route, so that seems unlikely.
 
User001
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Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:00 pm

But SQ have just started codesharing on a few IAH UA routes, a sign that things may be changing....

Instead of trying every which way to discredit such a route, why don't we just let SQ make the decision and let SQ get on with it? They are big boys, I'm sure they know what they are doing!
 
IAHWorldflyer
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:04 pm

IAH-SIN passenger demand is from the oil industry, and also shipping interests. The Port of Houston is the largest port in the US based on tonnage, and there is a lot of port related business with Singapore. That said, oil traffic is the biggest contributor. When oil prices come back, SQ wants to be ready and capture that traffic.
 
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DolphinAir747
Posts: 1901
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:07 pm

Re: SQ to launch SIN-MAN-IAH?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:24 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
IAH-SIN passenger demand is from the oil industry, and also shipping interests. The Port of Houston is the largest port in the US based on tonnage, and there is a lot of port related business with Singapore. That said, oil traffic is the biggest contributor. When oil prices come back, SQ wants to be ready and capture that traffic.


But why would these business passengers take a long detour on SQ versus a much quicker flight via an American or Asian hub? Time is money for business travelers. SQ can't compete on IAH-SIN corporate traffic if they don't have more attractive travel times.

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