fpetrutiu
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KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:42 pm

Martin Air used to operate AMS-MCO as well as Air France CDG-MCO. With both those routes gone, could a KLM AMS-MCO-AMS rotation with a 787 be feasible?

I think there is the market for it, especially for a SkyTeam carrier.
Florin
Orlando, FL
 
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flymco753
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:47 pm

KLM? No. Delta? I can definitely see it, especially since they've been building MCO up to be a pretty good sized focus city.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
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KTPAFlyer
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:15 pm

Yes, and it has good reciprocality with either DL or KL. After all, LH, and BA already operate, so why not round of the EU3?
 
factsonly
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:30 pm

KLM operated AMS-MCO-AMS for several years following the initial Open Skies USA-NL Agreement.

In 1992 KL operated the route 3x/week with B747:

- KL631 dep. AMS 13.40 - MCO arr. 17.10 747 FCY Mon, Thu, Sun
- KL632 dep. MCO 19.35 - AMS arr. 10.20 747 FCY Mon, Thu, Sun
 
oldannyboy
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:03 pm

I am pretty sure that the market is there. It's a question of having the right aircraft for the route, with a Y-heavy layout, like MP used to have. I think the current KL fleet is too premium-heavy for Orlando...
 
MCO2BRS
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:13 pm

I'd love to see KL back at MCO, but with Arkefly at SFB is there enough demand ex AMS? (I don't know the frequency or the seasonality of Arkefly)
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:20 pm

factsonly wrote:
KLM operated AMS-MCO-AMS for several years following the initial Open Skies USA-NL Agreement.

In 1992 KL operated the route 3x/week with B747:

- KL631 dep. AMS 13.40 - MCO arr. 17.10 747 FCY Mon, Thu, Sun
- KL632 dep. MCO 19.35 - AMS arr. 10.20 747 FCY Mon, Thu, Sun


And with DC-10 (leased in this case) as well:

Image
 
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Dutchy
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:43 pm

Florida is a tourist destination. There are a lot of destinations which are more attractive to Dutch tourist, either closer, either more beautiful, either cheaper. Dutch airlines have been struggling on the AMS - Florida route.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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dabpit
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:48 pm

flymco753 wrote:
KLM? No. Delta? I can definitely see it, especially since they've been building MCO up to be a pretty good sized focus city.

There is a better chance of DL launching AMS from MCO.
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MAH4546
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:29 pm

KLM can barely make Miami work, although it's trying for a third time in 12 years starting this fall.

Arkefly has the market covered.
a.
 
fpetrutiu
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:29 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
KLM can barely make Miami work, although it's trying for a third time in 12 years starting this fall.

Arkefly has the market covered.


That is a very sucky flight. Especially since the leg to AMS has a stop over in Miami... Possibly the shortest 787 segment... SFB-MIA-AMS

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TFL3 ... /KSFB/KMIA
Florin
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Mortyman
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:34 pm

Norwegian is flying to MCO too from Scandinavia and the UK
 
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flymco753
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:23 pm

dabpit wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
KLM? No. Delta? I can definitely see it, especially since they've been building MCO up to be a pretty good sized focus city.

There is a better chance of DL launching AMS from MCO.


I agree there's a much higher chance of it being DL. They'll likely use the 76L but it could also be a 764.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
Luxair747SP
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:36 pm

I think there is also a chance for KL with decent connections from/to their smaller cities in the network, they could fill up a 330. Many Europeans still want to go to the amusement parks and combine them with a Florida trip
 
fpetrutiu
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:42 am

Luxair747SP wrote:
I think there is also a chance for KL with decent connections from/to their smaller cities in the network, they could fill up a 330. Many Europeans still want to go to the amusement parks and combine them with a Florida trip


I agree. That is why I was posing the question. I think KLM's European network is more than sufficient as a feeder.
Florin
Orlando, FL
 
crownvic
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:12 am

KLM also operated their 747-400 between MCO and Mexico City. I had the pleasure of making that trip on a few occasions
 
bobnwa
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:22 pm

KLM aslo operated AMS-MCO-MEX and return .
 
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flymco753
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:33 pm

DL would provide the feed to AMS and through the US so passengers will travel onto their destination and be transferred to KLM in AMS.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
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KTPAFlyer
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:39 pm

fpetrutiu wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
KLM can barely make Miami work, although it's trying for a third time in 12 years starting this fall.

Arkefly has the market covered.


That is a very sucky flight. Especially since the leg to AMS has a stop over in Miami... Possibly the shortest 787 segment... SFB-MIA-AMS

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TFL3 ... /KSFB/KMIA


Arkefly operates a 787 on SFB-MIA!?! Is it available to book or is this like the QF situation?
 
fpetrutiu
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:29 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
Arkefly operates a 787 on SFB-MIA!?! Is it available to book or is this like the QF situation?


Yes they do, although I am not sure if it is available to book. It is also a one-way affair, there is no MIA-SFB.
Florin
Orlando, FL
 
tjh8402
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:10 pm

Luxair747SP wrote:
I think there is also a chance for KL with decent connections from/to their smaller cities in the network, they could fill up a 330. Many Europeans still want to go to the amusement parks and combine them with a Florida trip


I agree that the A330 would seem to be the best airframe for this route although VS and LH both make the 744 work for them so I can dream! I think the issue that both KL and AF have is they of all the European carriers probably have the best located and most connected US partner for service to MCO with DL at ATL. I don't think either UA or AA have a megahub so well positioned and with such frequent service to MCO as DL does at ATL that that they also already offer plentiful service to (UA at EWR would probably be the only one that comes close). There probably just aren't enough KL and AF passengers willing to pay extra to bypass ATL, whereas I can see LH passengers wanting to avoid EWR and BA passengers wanting to avoid JFK.
 
rutankrd
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:22 pm

Amsterdam - MCO on a Delta ticket either via Atlanta or even via Manchester onto the twice daily Virgin flights is popular.
 
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flymco753
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:12 am

Someone will have to convince me that KL would fly this route over DL.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
factsonly
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:07 am

bobnwa wrote:
KLM aslo operated AMS-MCO-MEX and return .


Don't think so, KLM only operated KL631 over the years AMS-MCO-AMS with D10 and B747:

Current KL destinations, former routes:

- AMS-YMX-IAH-MEX
- AMS-IAH-MEX
- AMS-MEX
- AMS-ATL-IAH

Former KL destinations:

- AMS-EWR
- AMS-MEM
- AMS-MIA
- AMS-BWI
- AMS-DTW
- AMS-MSP
- AMS-MCO
- AMS-BOS
- AMS-YHZ-YOW
 
777klm
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:43 am

Let's not forget that all DL, AF, KL, AZ transatlantic flights between Europe, USA, Canada and Mexico are metal neutral as they're part of the JV. So if they would launch such a route it would joint decision and a matter of finding the right equipment within the KL and DL fleets (AZ and AF fleet also possible but very unlikely). Like oldannyboy is saying, the KL aircraft are probably too premium (and too much capacity anyway) for the route. IF (and that's a big IF) such a route would ever be operated by the JV, a widget-tailed 76Z in high season would be the best option. (The 75E doesn't have the range)

Also, given the JV, KL still flies from AMS to EWR, DTW, MSP and BOS.
Last edited by 777klm on Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Home airport: AMS
Next flight: CNX - BKK
 
76er
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:50 am

MCO (and all of Florida, for that matter) were perfect MP destinations, until KL decided to pull the plug on them. Contrary to popular belief, most passengers on these flights connected at AMS, so not your typical O&D packagedeal tourists. MP631/632 (no coincidence) interlined with the KL network although there never was a full codeshare agreement on the route.
The fact that KL nor DL flies the route is simply because they think more money can be made flying elsewhere. Let's not forget the DL/KL combo operates AMS-ATL 4 times a day from where multiple Florida cities are served, including an hourly shuttle to MCO. As far as suitable equipment goes, MCO would require a CASM monster like the 77W with its small-ish businessclass section. Or the 333 as a good runner up if the T7 proves to be too large.
Although I would love nonstop service to MCO to resume, I'm afraid it won't be happening anytime soon. Let us first see if KL can make MIA work this time around. This is what, their fourth try?
 
Rookinla
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:32 am

@factsonly KL did operate AMS-MCO-MEX and return for a bit. I will find the flight schedule but it is true.
 
crownvic
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:26 am

As I mentioned in my thread earlier, I flew KLM between MCO and MEX several times 744 equipment...
 
johnclipper
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:06 pm

correct, KLM started AMS-MCO with DC-10-30s then switched to B747s (-300s and 400s) on AMS-MCO-MEX.
"Flown every aircraft since the Wright Flyer" (guys, if you take this literally, then you need to get a life...)
 
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dabpit
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Re: KLM at MCO? Would it be feasible?

Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:42 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Someone will have to convince me that KL would fly this route over DL.

Agreed, with the DL build up at MCO they would be the one in the JV to launch this over KL.

777klm wrote:
Like oldannyboy is saying, the KL aircraft are probably too premium (and too much capacity anyway) for the route. IF (and that's a big IF) such a route would ever be operated by the JV, a widget-tailed 76Z in high season would be the best option. (The 75E doesn't have the range)

KL is to premium heavy for flights to MCO. It is a big if but is also a strong possibility.
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