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TW870
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:26 am

jetblastdubai wrote:
TW870 wrote:

Based on the lack of any non-stop flights to even the major Asian markets from MIA/South Florida, the secondary Asian markets must be extremely small and not worth chasing with a 6-hour transcon flight. Another consideration might be terminal congestion in SFO during the morning push. A local SFO person might have more info on that.

The early evening MIA/TPA departure does work well for people wanting to put in a full-days work in MIA/TPA and be back on the west coast at a reasonable hour.


Yeah the more I have thought about it, there is very little incentive to time these flights for the Asia bank out of SFO. A person who lives in South Florida and is willing to pay a high fare for convenient schedules in any market is probably already an elite on American. If they need to get to any primary or secondary market in Asia, they are going to fly on AA or partner metal. This 6-hour transcon only pays for itself with Mileage Plus elites who live in the vicinity in SFO and have business in Florida. Thus, the flight is perfectly timed dispute its relative lack of connectivity at SFO, as one can do a whole day of business in TPA/MIA and then fly home.
 
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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:19 am

usflyguy wrote:
enilria wrote:
The airlines have been super-slow to add their Cuba flying. It's almost as if they think it will be a money pit. :lol:


Aren't they waiting for the Cuban government to officially sign off on the assigned route authorities? Also, didn't I read something about Cuba not allowing access to verify the security procedures or something like that?

I believe only Silver and one other airline have loaded anything. The non-HAV stuff was announced weeks ago.
 
jayunited
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:54 pm

commavia wrote:
Indeed. I agree as well - it's quite plausible that United gave up on getting optimal slots in favor of getting any slots at all before another carrier came after them. That said, it will be interesting to see how the added capacity, and the schedule, of this second flight affects yields for United in the SFO-PVG market. And on a related note, it will indeed be interesting to see if - as has been speculated by many already - Delta switches NRT-PVG to LAX-PEK if it loses the pending route case against AA.


I agree as well. Looking at the times the flight will depart/arrive at SFO I don't think this is what UA wanted but I think UA is borrowing a strategy from AA's playbook. AA wanted a better time slot for their ORD-PEK route but after delaying the launch of that route they decided to just operate the route with a suboptimal time slot and hope that in the future they can land for a better slot. Looking at what is going on at LAX with both DL and AA applying to operate LAX-PEK UA knows time is running out and they can no longer just sit on this slot. They either have to use the slot or at some point in the future be forced by either DL or AA to forfeit the slot.
 
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SteveXC500
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:11 pm

devyanks90 wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:
enilria wrote:
FAQ


*DL MSP-PBI JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0

*NK MSP-RSW JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2





Delta looking to compete with SY, I assume.

For the RSW increase, WN went up to 2 this past year, albeit Saturday only. I assume for Feb/Mar, it must be a good route with Spring Training...


A good chunk of Minnesotans have winter homes/have retired to around Fort Myers. Twins are there for a reason.



Minnesotans have retired to FL (and AZ) for years. Why would it matter NOW in this situation?
 
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dabpit
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:21 pm

enilria wrote:
**F9 MCO-SAN NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0

This looks like the schedule extension from when they launched this route on July 5.

enilria wrote:
*NK BOS-MCO OCT 0>0.8 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
Surprising to see them pull back to make room for F9
*NK DTW-MCO NOV 3>2 DEC 3>2 JAN 3>2 FEB 3>2 MAR 3>2
*NK IAG-MCO DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
*NK MCI-MCO NOV 0>0.7 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
*NK MCO-PBG DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
*NK MCO-PHL OCT 0>0.8 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK MCO-SJU NOV 0.3>1.0 DEC 1.0>1.5 JAN 1.2>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2

I think the reason for the pull back of the one DTW flight is not because of F9 but rather to use that aircraft on one of the new MCO flights. This is the start of Spirit's shift in route planning.

MCO will be getting more NK flights but they more than likely will not fly to a lot of cities the F9 does.
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dfwjim1
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:03 pm

N62NA wrote:
phluser wrote:
N62NA wrote:


I've also been sternly lectured here that the AA 777-200 that leaves around 7am MIA-LAX exists primarily for the South American connections, so if one believes that, then the SFO 7:15am flight would likely be similar.


I have flown on the MIA-SFO flight (#167) a number of times and, yes, it does seem like there always are a number of passengers from South America connecting on to SFO on this flight. Personally I think the
715 departure is great as the flight gets into SFO at around 1030 AM, giving one a full day in SFO.
 
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SFOA380
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:14 pm

CM SFO-PTY NOV 1.0>2.0 DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2

Another interesting add - CM going double daily SFO-PTY...
 
lavalampluva
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:36 pm

usflyguy wrote:
enilria wrote:
The airlines have been super-slow to add their Cuba flying. It's almost as if they think it will be a money pit. :lol:


Aren't they waiting for the Cuban government to officially sign off on the assigned route authorities? Also, didn't I read something about Cuba not allowing access to verify the security procedures or something like that?

Not sure if it is the Cuban government that is holding things up. Some airlines have already at least announced start dates. SY is just saying that they are starting service in the fall of 2016. It's not like they have a huge fleet so figuring out a schedule shouldn't be all that difficult.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
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piedmont762
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:54 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
N62NA wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
Two long overdue additions if you ask me. But UA might get crushed on SFO-MIA with AA flying 763s on the route (and they have been for years.)


That 1x daily AA 763 MIA-SFO though leaves at such a hideously early hour (7:15am) that it probably captures more South American connecting traffic than O&D.


Not sure when the schedule change takes effect, but beginning this fall sometime, I'm not seeing any AA B763s on SFO-MIA. Orbitz shows all B738s. (3)


Wow - that's a big league capacity dump for AA on SFO-MIA. Wasn't it multiple 763 and 757 up until recently?
 
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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:58 pm

dabpit wrote:
enilria wrote:
**F9 MCO-SAN NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0

This looks like the schedule extension from when they launched this route on July 5.
.

Not sure what you mean. There are no ops before Halloween. This is the first ops of the service. There is no service on the route currently by F9.
 
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dabpit
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:07 pm

enilria wrote:
Not sure what you mean. There are no ops before Halloween. This is the first ops of the service. There is no service on the route currently by F9.

F9 currently has a daily flight from MCO to SFO. This flight started on July 5.

MCO-SFO #1741 2200-0043 on the A319
SFO-MCO #1740 0015-0836 on the A319

I would upload the screenshot but I can't figure out how on the new site.
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commavia
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:30 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
Wow - that's a big league capacity dump for AA on SFO-MIA. Wasn't it multiple 763 and 757 up until recently?


For the longest time it was 2x 757/1x 763. At the moment it's actually 1x 757/1x 32B/2x 738. It does, indeed, show going down to 3x 738 in the fall, but we'll see if AA actually sticks with that through the winter or adds more capacity - schedules this far out may well not be reflective.
 
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piedmont762
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:47 pm

commavia wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
Wow - that's a big league capacity dump for AA on SFO-MIA. Wasn't it multiple 763 and 757 up until recently?


For the longest time it was 2x 757/1x 763. At the moment it's actually 1x 757/1x 32B/2x 738. It does, indeed, show going down to 3x 738 in the fall, but we'll see if AA actually sticks with that through the winter or adds more capacity - schedules this far out may well not be reflective.


True. You have to remember that AA has probably the tightest dummy schedules of any major carrier. I think sub 90 days out routes frequently get swapped out to other aircraft.
 
klwright69
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:57 pm

Interesting Spirit is leaving CLE-DFW. That was an old UA route.
Why suddenly 2 roundtrips on IAD-FLL? I doubt it matters that much. What is important is that they are in the market now.
SFO-MIA is interesting. UA should do just fine along with TPA. Of course it is logical given what they are doing with the SFO hub.
The fact that UA still does IAD-SMF is pretty amazing.
 
toltommy
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:43 pm

flymco753 wrote:
It makes me wonder if NK's momentum is over for DTW since their trying to be too much like AirTran. They're adding out of MCO and BWI like crazy and DTW hasn't gotten much in the previous year, and with the scheduled cuts for DTW it's looking like there's actually a decline. NK announced the building of an MX hangar and maintain one of their major hubs at DTW but that was under the old model. Someone prove me wrong, what's next in the NK saga at DTW?


Well the MX hangar will still be there, because of the agreement signed. So the planes will still be coming to DTW. NK has 3 permanent gates contracted at DTW. There was talk of adding a 4th gate to their contract, but i don't know if it ever happened. They would use up to 3 additional CUTE gates at a time, for a total of 6 gates. But DTW gives out CUTE gate assignments monthly based on the average number of flights operated the previous month. Before the UA/CO and AA/US mergers, NK was always number 1 or 2, it was a monthly battle with WN. Now they are number 3 or 4, making it harder to getting additional gates. They've seemed to peak at around 28 daily flights in the winter then drop to 22-24 daily in the summer. They'll probably keep that level of flying, but Fornaro clearly is looking for markets that don't have competition. Hard to grow DTW unless they are prepared to compete.
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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:13 pm

enilria wrote:
dabpit wrote:
enilria wrote:
**F9 MCO-SAN NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0

This looks like the schedule extension from when they launched this route on July 5.
.

Not sure what you mean. There are no ops before Halloween. This is the first ops of the service. There is no service on the route currently by F9.
dabpit wrote:
F9 currently has a daily flight from MCO to SFO. This flight started on July 5.

MCO-SFO #1741 2200-0043 on the A319
SFO-MCO #1740 0015-0836 on the A319

I would upload the screenshot but I can't figure out how on the new site.

How does a schedule for SFO-MCO prove that SAN-MCO is already operating and is just a schedule extension?
Last edited by enilria on Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
MAH4546
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:13 pm

AA always loads 3x 738 for MIASFO far out and then it always changes to something else by the time the schedule operates, including the 763.
a.
 
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dabpit
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:07 pm

enilria wrote:
How does a schedule for SFO-MCO prove that SAN-MCO is already operating and is just a schedule extension?

For some reason I read SFO and not SAN :? no idea how I did that.

SAN-MCO starts October 30 as a daily flight.
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Dominion301
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:17 pm

enilria wrote:

AC MSY-YYZ JAN 1.0>1.7 FEB 1.0>1.8 MAR 1.0>1.9
*AC SAN-YVR JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
AC SFO-YUL MAR 0.9>2

WS FLL-YOW OCT 0.1>0.0 NOV 0.3>0.1
WS FLL-YYC DEC 0.3>0.1 JAN 0.3>0.2 FEB 0.3>0.1 MAR 0.3>0.1
WS LAS-YQR NOV 0.4>0.3 DEC 0.4>0.3 JAN 0.4>0.3 FEB 0.4>0.3 MAR 0.4>0.3
WS LAS-YXE NOV 0.4>0.3 DEC 0.4>0.3 JAN 0.5>0.3 FEB 0.4>0.3 MAR 0.4>0.3
WS LAX-YVR NOV 2>3 DEC 2>3 JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3 MAR 2>3
WS MCO-YHM JAN 0.2>0.1 FEB 0.3>0.1 MAR 0.3>0.1
WS MCO-YUL JAN 0.5>0.3 FEB 0.4>0.3 MAR 0.4>0.3
WS MCO-YYG DEC 0.2>0.1
WS MCO-YYT JAN 0.3>0.2 FEB 0.3>0.1 MAR 0.3>0.1
WS OGG-YEG DEC 0.4>0.2 JAN 0.4>0.3 FEB 0.4>0.3 MAR 0.4>0.3
WS PSP-YYZ NOV 0.5>0.3 DEC 0.6>0.4 JAN 0.5>0.4


Newbie here, but I have loved reading this thread for years. Thanks enilria. Being YOW-based, and remembering your Canadian flag from the old a.net, I've always wondered whether it's possible to also do a Canadian domestic OAG pull too?
 
fsafsx
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Re: OAG Changes 7/29/2016:F9 SAN-MCO,NK Big Reshuffle,UA New Routes,WN

Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:39 pm

toltommy wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
It makes me wonder if NK's momentum is over for DTW since their trying to be too much like AirTran. They're adding out of MCO and BWI like crazy and DTW hasn't gotten much in the previous year, and with the scheduled cuts for DTW it's looking like there's actually a decline. NK announced the building of an MX hangar and maintain one of their major hubs at DTW but that was under the old model. Someone prove me wrong, what's next in the NK saga at DTW?


Well the MX hangar will still be there, because of the agreement signed. So the planes will still be coming to DTW. NK has 3 permanent gates contracted at DTW. There was talk of adding a 4th gate to their contract, but i don't know if it ever happened. They would use up to 3 additional CUTE gates at a time, for a total of 6 gates. But DTW gives out CUTE gate assignments monthly based on the average number of flights operated the previous month. Before the UA/CO and AA/US mergers, NK was always number 1 or 2, it was a monthly battle with WN. Now they are number 3 or 4, making it harder to getting additional gates. They've seemed to peak at around 28 daily flights in the winter then drop to 22-24 daily in the summer. They'll probably keep that level of flying, but Fornaro clearly is looking for markets that don't have competition. Hard to grow DTW unless they are prepared to compete.


Good theyre done expanding in Detroit. Flint will be next with Spirit service. See theres better places to add planes than Detroit. Youll see major downsizing for Spirit in Detroit in the next year, and maybe even shutter their Detroit hub.

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